Which flight trainning school to choose???? [Archive]

beachbum88

7th Sep 2009, 19:08

Stay away from the states is all I can say. Its fine to do a PPL out in florida but if your considering a full atpl consider a modular school in europe, anyone but cabair. Try BCFT in bournemouth or any number of UK based training providers. Stay away from integrated, the cost is so high and the hours you get are so low. aka a full modular ATPL with 250ish hours cost about £45k where as an integrated course with 200hours cost £90k and with modular you get to keep every license along the way but not with an integrated course all you get is an airline license.

JB007

7th Sep 2009, 20:19

Any advice from any of you??

Get/Stay employed and give flying training a miss for at least 3 years...end of!

Frankly Mr Shankly

7th Sep 2009, 20:37

I honestly can't believe these questions are still being asked. What does it take to tell people that the job situation is horrendous and WILL GET ALOT worse!

Myself and at least three friends, all of us at different airlines, are hanging on by our fingernails, and not anywhere near our home bases either, some on reduced contracts.

The situation is horrendous job wise, really can not stress it enough.

And if I see one more person mention the bloody "dream"..........

Just have patience for now, please, for your own sake.

art deco

7th Sep 2009, 21:00

JB 007 - probably wise advice unfortunately however, by the time you finish your training the market may have improved. Flight schools need you at the moment - negotiate.

tomgee88 - clearly the expert, please enlighten us with a more detailed explanation of your sweeping, all encompassing statement

Paris80

Look closely at;

Equipment; how old are the aircraft? New or 30 yr old?
how many? 20-30 with a standard set up throughout the fleet? or are you sharing two aircraft between all the students? what happens if one goes tech? maintenance facilities?
Are there simulator facilities in case of bad wx?

Location; easy to get to? Accommodation costs? Transport provided? Good free airspace, interesting variety of destinations especially when you are hr building?

Instructors; find out some background on the experience of the instructors. does the school have standardisation programmes for the instructors? Are they full-time or part time? How long have they worked there? Have they got experience outside the circuit or hr builders with only 300 hrs more than you?

Facilities; New dedicated buildings or garden shed? dedicated classrooms with Audio-visual equipment or a back store room? Online study material and forums with online help?

Contact other students, this is difficult to do sometimes. Especially on here where a \'student\' could be an instructor/examiner for one school or another.

Weather Issues: Sunshine every day or weeks of cloud and rain? Days not flying costs you money in accommodation and living costs.

Visas; check you get help with this if in a foreign country

It is your money and you are the customer - good luck

PM me if you want any further advice

JB007

7th Sep 2009, 21:58

JB 007 - probably wise advice unfortunately however, by the time you finish your training the market may have improved. Flight schools need you at the moment - negotiate.

I finished my training quite a few years ago, and three type ratings and turboprop, short, medium and long haul experience later, myself and Frankly tell it how it is from within the industry with finger nails been reduced at every next management internal memo...the bad times for Wannabe's are really yet to arrive.

paris80

8th Sep 2009, 06:44

Why is everybody so negative???
Cant you see that they are looking for pilots around the world!!!
Or are you all so homesick that you dont want to leave home!!!!
The only problem nowdays are how to build hours and which of all these caled "flight academies" to choose??
And if it is someones dream...instead of putting them down help them otherwise dont write at all!!
I am new to this forum and all i can see is negativity and bad attitude!!!

The question is simple do you have any advice regarding these flight academies mentioned above?would love to stay in Europe but due to financial reasons US is more attractive!!

Nearly There

8th Sep 2009, 08:11

Cant you see that they are looking for pilots around the world!!!

That made me laugh out loud, whoever told you that must want your money, the situation is the same the world over. NO JOBS for low time pilots unless you pay to fly, then its not a job.

chickentikkamasala

8th Sep 2009, 08:50

And if it is someones dream...instead of putting them down help them otherwise dont write at all!!

There there take no notice of those nasty men.

chickentikkamasala

8th Sep 2009, 09:12

Paris80
I know you were only asking for advice on flight schools, but unfortunately in the current climate you will have to expect some replies like that above and you would do well to heed them. These are people with experience of the industry and they can see what's happening from within. Are you really sure of your claims of jobs out there in Europe?
Do you really think that if you start your training now that there will be a job out there for you in a year or two?
Please please do not fall for any sales talk by any FTO at the moment. There are experience pilots out there with thousands of hours now looking for jobs who are now willing to up sticks and go where the work is and it will take probably a 3 years to get rid of this backlog. Only then will you have a look in. You are only 28 and still have time on your hands, don't blow your training money now by wrong timing. It's not your duty to keep an FTO in business.

In regard to which FTO, get your ppl first, build you hours up, night rating and then Qualifying cross country. That's plenty to be getting on with. Spend at least two years doing this putting yourself under no pressure.
In 2011 go to either EFT, Stapleford or Oxford to complete your training. Forget the rest. You can even do the ground studies separate.
Geez this is not rocket science just common sense with a little research.

Will probably get lambasted recommending FTO's, it's only my opinion.
Don't blow it all by being impatient, the worst is yet to come and we are all going to have to sit tight and watch what happens.

No RYR for me

8th Sep 2009, 10:17

Cant you see that they are looking for pilots around the world!!! LOL let me guess somebody selling flighttraining :rolleyes:

JB007

8th Sep 2009, 11:22

And if it is someones dream...

Paris80
Look deeper than the flying school corporate sales pitch with some focus research into the next few years, this coming winter and next in particular, maybe after that if some Wing Spar Engineer in Seattle doesn't get his bl**dy finger out!!!!

Speak to people from within, PPRuNe is good for that if you can just accept it's not negative or a bad attitude - do this research before spending $100,000, it'll be worth it!

paris80

8th Sep 2009, 12:59

Guys !!! Everyone is saying it is not a good time and there arent any job vacancies!!
I was told exactly the same thing ten years ago when i was finishing high school!!
Also if you see the previous years at previous posts everybody is writting about bad timing!!!

Ok?? So when is the right timming???
If the last ten years I have been listening to the same thing !!! when should I start my trainning???
When I become 50!!
Another thing, does that mean that in the past ten years.. Nobody has been employed, nor taken their trainnig, Comon!!! What the **** is going wrong!! Why is everyone so pesimistick??

Emirates,Etihad,Novair,Qatar,Kingfisher and many more are looking for pilots!!! Or am I wrong... NOT
So instead of all you saying that you are pilots and inside the industry open your eyes carefully and stop dreaming that the airlines will call you tomorow morning and offer you a job...

paris80

8th Sep 2009, 13:09

LOL let me guess somebody selling flighttraining :rolleyes:

Dear friend If Iwould ask which flight academy to attend ...how on earth would i sell flight training??????:ugh:

wilky

8th Sep 2009, 14:19

I Smell a troll

BoeingMEL

8th Sep 2009, 14:31

Let him throw his tens of thousands of ££££/$$$/Euros away...

There's none as blind as those.... etc.

Oh dear :ugh:

destinationsky

8th Sep 2009, 15:03

Tomgee - what an absolute numpty. "Avoid the states" Now, what is that based on? I bet he has never even looked at learning in the states and he is one of those people who spend all of their time surfing these forums jumping on bandwagons.
I have spent months researching US flying schools and i am going out on the 23rd of this month to do my PPL.
I understand there are subtle differences in certain procedures and i will need to do some flying when i arrive back. The money i save will be invested into those vital P1 hours towards my CPL - When i can afford it and when the likelihood of getting a job improves!
There are some good nuggets of information floating around this website so use the search function to search for the schools you intend to apply to and get some honest feedback.
Despite all of the negativity, if i had the money, i would be Starting my ATPL right away. My dream is to fly regardless of the state of the industry. I would do all of my training (aslong as it didnt put me into debt!) and if i didnt get a job at the end, i would stack shelves in Tesco untill something came along.
i say good luck to you and go for it!
oh, i am going to EFT!
Mike

art deco

8th Sep 2009, 15:43

If you do your PPL in the states, GA has a much more relaxed atmosphere. It is all about enjoying your flying unlike the pompous and stuffy European attitude. It will be the best flying you do, in the sunshine with hundreds of great FREE destinations. (especially if you are hour building. Where else can you fly into an International Airport for FREE, borrow a Mustang for FREE and drive to a nice restaurant for dinner. (that bit is not free!) or the beach.
However, make sure you do not fall into the trap of lazy RT. Learn the correct iCAO phraseology and use it even though you might get a few raised eyebrows. Make sure you get good pre and post flight briefings.
The circuit pattern in the US is slightly different in that you start descent on the downwind leg, (I prefer this, it makes a smoother approach) so learn the JAA way also and practice good organised navigation technique.
There is nothing wrong with doing your licence out there, there is perhaps something wrong with one or two of the cheap schools especially if the owner is the examiner.
Aeroplanes do not fall out of the sky because the pilot has an FAA licence or has learned in the USA.
As for jobs, well it comes and goes. Yes there are unemployed experienced pilots without but yes there are some jobs if you are willing to completely re-locate. It is a Global Market. All industries cycle and people will always want to travel. Just as flight schools say the business is good so train now, pilots will say do not train because they do not want a glut of cheap pilots on the market. Both are justifiable.

You do whatever you want to do, but enjoy it.

Good luck

heres trouble

8th Sep 2009, 16:00

Paris..

Just get out and do your own research and you'll soon get a feel for which schools are :mad: and which ones have a good quality to them . Go visit as many as you can stomach take their info and ask as many questions as you can think of and you will learn a lot about the state of play.If any of them tell you that you will have no problem wandering into a job as soon as you've finished then they are lying through their teeth just as much as anyone here saying theres no chance.Dont forget that the schools main job is to get you into their school, and some of them will spin some serious :mad: to make that happen..

Some reality.. It is a slog just getting the quals done, and then an even bigger slog scoring the jobs.Depending on your cash flow situation you could be doing it hard for 2 years minimum if you go hell for leather, and possibly 3-6 years before you get a job that starts to pay back the massive outlay in any meaningful way..

If you are willing to move around and be flexible with what you are prepared to do it will help.If all you want to do is climb into an FO's seat at the local International airport as soon as you've completed the quals you'll be in for a lot of frustration and disappointment.

But again -like every other mad bugger here- if you want to do it you will, and I wish you the best with it.Take your time and enjoy the study.

p.s
For all the whining on this site I doubt there is a single one who would give it away as its the best job going despite the current stresses.

epsomepp

9th Sep 2009, 08:34

Hey Paris, I was also thinking about going to OFT. I spoke with Adam down there a couple months ago and he seemed a pretty decent lad.
However honestly mate keep your options open, im going down to Bournemouth to visit BCFT this month as they seem to provide very good training. Iv looked all over pprune to see what I could find about BCFT and I couldn't find one bad note about them. Going through BCFT is the modular way, pay as you go. Where as OFT you have to pay all your cash of $39,999 within 3 months. I also know the CFI at OFT was made redundant a few months back.

Send me a private message if you want to chat. Im in the same boat as you, a lot of people on here try and put people down and put them off flying. Listen but make your own judgements.

All the best fella

beachbum88

9th Sep 2009, 10:12

Well that got some bad feedback for myself. I see the current airline pilots situation is bad and I also see that they wouldnt want a influx of cheap pilots. I say stay away from the states because you learn in perfect weather, which is good and bad at the same time. I did my entire ppl in jan and flying in the **** i believe has made me a better pilot. I am just finishing my atpls off at the moment and have as sick as it sounds enjoyed them. if you have the money i say go for it as sometime in the next year or so the market will be improving, there are even small signs of growth even now.
BCFT is where I am training and I enjoy it here, the jetline course is good and i should be done by the spring. I am more than aware that it will be an uphill struggle to find a job but im willing to go anywhere in the world for one.
Do hours in the states im off soon to do 70 hours flying from palm beach to san diego and back again. i would advise doing your ppl in europe though.
this is just my advice and my route though, people can slander all they want but they have all got there own opinions and have all taken there own routes. all i say is go for it as flying is the best thing i have ever done.

elcAbron07

11th Sep 2009, 16:51

tomgee88
I say stay away from the states because you learn in perfect weatherAre you speaking from experience, have you actually done any flying in the States yourself? Considering the very extreme weather conditions that can be encountered there, this is a broad statement to make.

I did my entire ppl in jan and flying in the **** i believe has made me a better pilotPlease elaborate on what s**t it was that made you a better pilot? Presumably s**t that was within the limits of your PPL license of course!

there are even small signs of growth even nowPlease tell me where the growth is so I can point my unemployed, type rated, unfrozen atpl holding friends in that direction.

they wouldnt want a influx of cheap pilotsDoes this include yourself, since as you say bcft is a modular type course / school? By this statement, if the industry does improve, and jobs begin to open up, the airlines should overlook you and opt for the integrated graduates who paid a higher price for training? By what you are saying, they paid more so are deemed better pilots?

i would advise doing your ppl in europe though.Well thank you for your predictions / advice / knowledge / bcft marketing tomgee88, I think we are all now a little wiser for having an industry expert in our midst. Have you considered that everyone has individual circumstances and reasons which may influence where is best to conduct flight training? Great advice for the masses though! :D

If you're going to enlighten us all with your "sweeping" statements (as someone correctly said earlier in thread), then please provide some facts and / or personal experience for it to be deemed anything more than an uneducated opinion.

rockingh0rse

13th Sep 2009, 11:35

What is wrong with telling everyone our own (personally experienced) views on flying schools?
If it's personal experience (and can be proved), what's everyone so scared of?

Paris...
I went to OFT and had a rough time. A lot of it was my own fault. I chose the option to do the whole PPL in 2 weeks (don't think this option still exists!). This means extreme everything. Even with studying before you get there and just doing one exam per day, you have so much flying to do in such a short amount of time and this is soooo mentally tiring when you can't yet fly! I remember I was getting about 4 hours sleep a day. Having to get up at 5 to make a VFR flight plan, call the weather people (who are excellent, this should be a basic requirement worldwide), get to the aircraft for 6 and pre-flight it. Go up with an instructor that doesn't want to be there.

Anyway, I digress. I could go on but don't have time.
If you have more time - take a month - do it at a leasurely pace and you should be ok. They have plenty of aircraft, reasonable condition. If you use Kissimmee as a base, there are plenty of things to do and plenty of other people around. Like I said, I chose the wrong formula, one aircraft, one instructor and one airfield (a way away and we were alone)!
I am thinking of going to EFT now (haven't been totally put off Florida) but don't go in Summer... serious thunderstorms _every_ afternoon!

SweetChariotXV

13th Sep 2009, 13:45

What is wrong with telling everyone our own (personally experienced) views on flying schools?

Yeh I think that is what the point was of elcabron's post. tom has made some statements regarding schools and where to fly which are not based on his own experiences.

beachbum88

14th Sep 2009, 09:18

Right have you nothing better to do than pick, I flown in the states although before I was licenced and with my uncle and we had fantastic weather for out trip, it was great, clear skys little wind friendly and open airfields, a very pleasurable experience. I however would not want to train there, i know that they get serve weather i used to live in the states, it is very easy going flyig out there and for training at least for me I do not feel that that is good. I need pressure to the best and find flying with uk airspace as far more stressful. But I cannot emphasize this enough, this is my opinion and my choice, my route for training. The reason for this thread is so that people can help this chap decide what is the best option for his training, I am not telling him what to do or where to do it, I simply voicing my opinion and what I have found, for me the states wasnt an option for him it maybe. In my opinion I would stay away from states, even though it is fun flying out there and very laid back, however for me i thought that may have an adverse effect on me coming back to england and dealing with english weather and procedures. I also wanted to do the equiviliant of an AB course so i chose BCFT as I could do it all in one place for what i could afford. I am not a spoilt rich kid, i do not have parents who have the £90k to pay for me to go Oxford or FTE or another integrated provider. I had £47,000 all earnt by me, I worked hard after school to get that money and believe that the training i receive at BCFT is no worse or better than any of the integrated providers and think at oxford and such places you only pay for the name. I believe i get more experience on my path but yet again i find my self saying this to avoid repercussions , this is my opinion and my route every one has there own to take, i found this to work for me. I hope you find the route for you.