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Big_Eyes
4th Sep 2009, 10:26
Looking for any info of company's that will start new Sea Pilots off.

- List of company's
- Hiring hours
- Aircraft type.


Cheers

toolowtoofast
4th Sep 2009, 10:48
Huge effort there mate. They like that. And it's companies

AnyGivenSunday99
4th Sep 2009, 21:45
do a search. There was a thread on here only a couple of weeks ago. Dont just search SEAPLANES and give up, they are also commonly known as FLOATS.

kevinsky18
4th Sep 2009, 22:38
How new is new?

Do you mean a 1000 hr wheel pilot who just got his Seaplane rating?

Do you mean a CPL grad with 50hrs on floats?

Do you mean CPL and 7hrs?

Where do you live, where are you willing to go?

If all you have is a CPL license and a 7hr seaplane rating then your question should be how can you build more seaplane time. In this climate without a bare minimum 50hrs you're going to be on the docks for a long while. Even with 50hrs you're still looking at some dock work though I have heard of one or two guys this season getting a direct flying job with 50 hours.

Cap'n Arrr
6th Sep 2009, 08:48
Just on this topic, I'm going to be heading north up the coast from Sydney in 2 weeks, looking for a first seaplane gig. I have 1000hrs and a new float rating, but haven't done the meet & greet before when looking for work, so I'm a little unsure about the best way to find work. I've found as many operators as I can between Rose Bay and Cape York, and I'm planning to pay them all a visit, but if anyone would like to post or PM any advice for me it would be enormously appreciated!:ok:

werbil
6th Sep 2009, 10:35
Unfortunately it's not a big list.

The operators which only have turbines are extremely unlikely to be able to give you a start with a bare float endorsement - for a gig in an amphib caravan most operators will be looking for around 500 hours of float experience.

With floats it is very much is a case of being in the right place at the right time with the right attitude. The last time the company I work for advertised there were about a hundred applicants, some of which had thousands of hours of float experience (and others that didn't even have a float endorsement:ugh:).

In our case the minimum requirements vary depending on the level of experience of the pilots in the company at the time we're looking for another pilot. Sometimes a bare endorsement is enough to get a start, at other times significant experience is required. Historically most of those that got a start with a bare endorsement actually moved up with no offer of employment, found other work - and waited, and kept in touch by calling in regularly. On the same token there have been others that moved up and didn't get a start either.

Howard Hughes
6th Sep 2009, 12:21
What if a pilot had considerable turbine time?

freshy1234
6th Sep 2009, 17:28
A gig in the Whitsundays would be nice!! :ok::ok::p

calmaashs
7th Sep 2009, 19:10
capn arr, you'd be better off taking a drive between darwin and broome thats where you will find the companies that will hire you with out experiance

good luck

Bla Bla Bla
8th Sep 2009, 01:53
Bush flight in Derby might give you a start but be careful they have a very long list of pilots leaving in the past as the owner is interesting to work for! They have a history of over promising and under delivering and the organisation within the company is bad even by GA standards. They only have one Beaver and one van amphibian as one of the senior pilots forgot to retract the gear after departure out of Derby and crashed on landing in Talbot bay recently.

I guess that's what after takeoff and before landing checks are for!

werbil
8th Sep 2009, 13:00
HH,

The lower the float time, the harder it is to get insurance (ie more expensive and higher excess for water operations). With the higher hull value and passenger numbers that go with the larger aircraft, float experience makes a big difference whilst turbine time doesn't. On the same token I do know of two pilots that got their first gig in vans - one had significant total time, the other already worked for the company.

Bla bla bla,

Apart from the outcome (aircraft inverted following a landing on water with the gear extended) I don't know what happened in that accident - and I'd be surprised if you do either. There have been NUMEROUS cases around the world where amphibious pilots have extended the undercarriage whilst doing their pre landing checks for a water landing. Unlike a land plane, the gear configuration changes depending on the surface - and green is definitely not safe. As distraction at the wrong time can result in disaster a disciplined set, check and challenge procedure executed religiously as the primary thought processes is essential. I would have thought that the change in performance with the Dunlops hanging in the breeze on a longish sector would be very apparent.

Bla Bla Bla
8th Sep 2009, 23:19
Werbil,

You would be wrong I do know the guy who wrecked it and the CP I know exactly what happened and it is just like I said. No after take off checks and no landing checks. Gear down for the complete flight, a forty minute leg with extra drag.

desmotronic
9th Sep 2009, 01:44
lol give that man a job at qantas!!!

Pilotette
9th Sep 2009, 08:24
No wonder they prefer pilots with a fair bit of experience :eek:

YouTube - de Havilland Beaver Plane Crash at Lake Hood (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwlodvWh7w)

desmotronic
9th Sep 2009, 09:20
go the step taxi curve take off preferably into wind next time lol and dont rotate early it digs the floats and if you want to lift a float in a crosswind make it the leeward one :ok: :}

xxgoldxx
12th Sep 2009, 12:27
where is werbill ??

suddenly quiet.. ?
could it be there was a seaplane happening in Australia that werbill wasn't privvy to the details of...

werbil
13th Sep 2009, 00:32
xxgoldxx - I assume you are asking me?

Last time I checked Lake Hood was in Anchorage, Alaska. I've had plenty to say on that crash - http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/383268-beaver-crash-video-never-give-up.html - the video was damning to say the least.

As to bla bla bla - who says: I do know the guy who wrecked it and the CP I know exactly what happened and it is just like I said
So who told you what happened - the CP, the GM or Tom, Dick or Harry in the pub?

A wheels down landing on water is completely unacceptable irrespective of how it occurred - incorrectly performed checks are as bad as no checks performed. Interestingly there is nothing on the ATSB site - it will make interesting reading even if there is nothing more than a pilot statement as to what happened.

Bla Bla Bla
13th Sep 2009, 01:26
Quite a disbelieving chap aren't you, no not Tom or Dick or even Harry but the pilot who didn't do his checks told me. He had quite allot on his mind at the time and this obviously didn't include flying, I think this accident has allot to do with the term fit to fly. Mind else where when it should be in the cockpit, that is what happened.

Not everyone on pprune has an opinion based on what they think the facts are, some know the facts of certain events.

Chuck Ellsworth
13th Sep 2009, 01:30
Amphibious airplanes have a horrendous record landing on the water with the wheels down.

These accidents are completely pilot error for the simple reason they landed in the water with the gear down.

The real bad part of these accidents that are 100% preventable is they kill a lot of the occupants of the airplanes that land in the water with the gear down.

If you are a high time float plane pilot and you start flying amphibious airplanes you are at higher risk of landing with the gear in the wrong position for the surface you are landing on than a newly trained float plane pilot.

xxgoldxx
16th Sep 2009, 14:51
I'm sure the old saying has something to do with glass houses.....

unless I was a high time amphib pilot with a perfect record I would be very careful about casting opinions on others misfortune ..

just my opinion of course...

Bla Bla Bla
16th Sep 2009, 14:56
Thanks for the advise, I really appreciate it!

Chuck Ellsworth
16th Sep 2009, 16:47
I'm sure the old saying has something to do with glass houses.....

unless I was a high time amphib pilot with a perfect record I would be very careful about casting opinions on others misfortune ..

just my opinion of course...

Being a high time amphib pilot with perfect record it is my opinion that landing an amphibious airplane on the water with the wheels down is a 100% preventable accident unless you are negligent.

Improper training of course adds to the risk factor of a pilot not performing such a necessary action as confirming the gear is up before landing on the water.

clinty83
18th Dec 2009, 22:13
Hi all

Here's a question, after reading the previous posts I'm wondering if it is at all possible or has it happenend before, that the hydraulic system that operates the gear has failed causing the gear to lower during flight?

I'd assume that the switches would perhaps light up the green for grass light even though the gear is selected up? I have limited amphib beaver time hence this may be a wee bit of a silly Q.

clinty83
18th Dec 2009, 22:23
After reading my previous post I though I'd explain the green for grass comment.

When I did my endorsement I was taught to challenge the undercarriage position as usual prior to landing. Two indicator lights indicate the gear position. Up has a blue light for water landings and down has a green light for grass landings.

Not sure if this is a common feature?

OpsNormal
18th Dec 2009, 22:50
Some amphib floats will also have indicators on the top of the floats as to be another visual indication of gear position. (PK's etc)

Always sneak that last look at the gear just before the flare/round-out, it has saved more than one I'm tipping.

Regards,

OpsN.

clinty83
18th Dec 2009, 23:07
OpsN and others

True, I was also taught to check the gear position by means of convex mirrors and the front wheels (cant miss that 2 foot long arms) but has anyone heard of the main gear extending in flight?

For example what would happen if the hydraulic oil was ruptured and all the fluid ran out of the system. Would the gear extend or would it remain up in the floats and not extend next time the gear was selected down?

Beavers rule
19th Dec 2009, 00:20
I have to disagree with the canadian with the perfect Amphib record. On the older EDO floats eg 4580" or the streatched 4930" and you can include the Edo amphibd for thr Otter. The main gear is held in the retracted position by hydraulic pressure ONLY. There are no mechanical catches. If the pressure in the system is released the main gear will drop. We had a lot of trouble when operating in salt water with the salt eating into the steel hydraulic lines causing holes and therefore leaks to develop. I know of several cases where the steel cable which retracts the front wheels has failed causing the pilot to land on the water with one front gear locked in the down position.
The older systems did not have a back up hydraulic system. if for any reason a break occured between the pump and the landing occurs the pump simply empties the oil [ normally onto the pilot's feet ] . I have personally had this happen in an Otter and ended up with the nose gear up and secure but the main wheels dangling halfway between full up and full down. After much deliberation we landed very gingerly on the water. We pulled up very quickly but safely with no damage. a quick pipe replacement and some new oil and away we went.
The whiplines have a dual pump and tank system and the gear has mechanical locks so the Edo problems do not occur.
The only method to avoid gear stuff ups is to look out the window. Have a set of mirrors the enables the crew to visually check all wheels. Add the visual check to your check list and never ever fail to use your written check list. This will keep you from getting wet and having to fill out lots of paperwork. :ouch:

clinty83
19th Dec 2009, 06:18
BeaversRule

Thanks for your post that was the answer I was looking for. The same thing occurs on some land based retractable gear although it is not such a disaster for obvious reasons.

I do however find it interesting that in some cases the oil dumps onto the pilots feet. An indicator like that would most certianly destroy your brand new double pluggers, but I'm not sure many float pilots would know what all the oil means.

All I need now is a job flying a Beaver. After the endorsement I'm hooked

troppo
4th Jan 2010, 22:20
Turtle Airways advertising for a C206/DHC2 pilot in today's Fiji Times.
Don't know how many locals there would be to fill the position.

RenegadeMan
31st Jan 2010, 12:11
Hi Everyone

My first post in the DG&P. Re the danger of landing an amphib on the water with the gear down, I have a Lake Renegade 250 and these are words I say out loud for each and every landing:

"This is a water landing so the undercarriage is up to land on the water"
or
"This is a land landing so the undercarriage is down to land on the land"

I say these phrases religiously each time I'm landing during the pre landing checks and I look at the main gear position out the window and check the nose wheel's position using the sponson mirror (forget the lights you must look out the window and get visual confirmation; if your aircraft can't give you this and you can only rely on the lights you're introducing potential system failure and you must establish another mechanism to know if the gear is down; such as a way of realising there's extra drag or something). Then when I'm turning final I do a PUF check (Prop full fine, Undercarriage is up for the water landing, Flaps down). On very short final I say the phrase again "This is a water landing so the undercarriage is up to land on the water".

With around 300 water landings under my belt I consider myself still in the early phases of learning this water flying craft thoroughly, but I've never once commenced the landing sequence and put the gear in the wrong position (or left it down after take off from a hard surface and flown to a water landing site then realised it's still down).

I think what Chuck says is true, you have an absolute reposonsibility to your passengers, yourself and your craft to be 100% on this. It just has to be treated the same as other critical checks such as water in your fuel, or fuel quantity for the intended flight. There's really no excuse, if you're flying an amphib, be it floats or hull, you have to have a very thorough process for checking and cross checking yourself.

Ren :)

xxgoldxx
31st Jan 2010, 13:03
renegade your system is spot on.. stick to it.

now go and do 7 water and 6 land a day in all sorts of combinations at all sorts of ALA,s with all sorts of weather and 4 radios going plus pax tapping you on the shoulder etc etc for 5 days a week and 12 months straight and then ask yourself if you treated every one of them the same.. hopefully you did..!!

Everyone I spoke to that did crash or got away with it, had all done their checks perfectly.. or so they thought ... therein is the lesson I reckon..

I have not F****d it up either .. but you are only as good as your last...

I could be the one in the news tomorrow..!

RenegadeMan
31st Jan 2010, 16:30
yep, "there but for the grace of God go I".

None of us can ever be cast iron guranteed perfect.

Any of us can be "that guy that forgot the gear....." and have to live with it forevermore (or "it" be associated with our name forevermore if we're no longer here)

part of the "never get complacent or take any of it for granted" deal me thinks.

:ok: