Cruel Irony dept.

[cessnapuppy]

FAA says 2 in helicopter crash were FAA safety inspectors - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/01/helicopter.crash/index.html)
FAA safety inspector dies as copter hits house
The most important inspection is the one you didnt do.

[Rainboe]

It's not irony mate. It's tragedy. Accidents can happen to anybody in aviation, which is why standards have to be so high. I can't see a humour element!

[GS John]

Why does irony have to be humerous?

[Rainboe]

Well if your loss in an accident was passed off by some anonymous fool as 'irony', you perhaps would feel slightly insulted, if you weren't so dead. Don't such remarks reek to you of 'bad taste'? Do you really have to go public with such comments? How do you think their families and colleagues (some of whom are very possibly likely to look here) will feel about the loss of their loved ones being spoken about so? 'High horse'? 'Respect' is a better word, and you are showing little here to them.

I hope this thread might soon be consigned to where it belongs.

[remoak]

Have to agree, at least partly, with Rainboe here. Whether they were inspectors or not is irrelevant, particularly as the cause of the accident is apparently unknown. Being a safety inspector doesn't make you immune to mechanical (or human) failure.

The original poster is implying that the crash was caused by an act of omission on the inspector's part, which as far as I can see has yet to be established.

[pilotbear]

oh no, the moral police are on duty again:ugh:
The implication is not one of blame it is IRONY that someone who spends their life preventing others from dying in an aviation accident should die in an aviation accident.

Irony isn't humour, hence the phrase 'Ironic humour'

:ugh:

[Agaricus bisporus]

Sounds to me as if the silly beggar has gobbed off without knowing what irony really means.

irony, .....discrepancy between the actual and the expected state of affairs; a contradictory or ill-timed outcome of events as if in mockery of the fitness of things.
(New Shorter OED)



"Sometimes it is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
(Mark Twain)

[pilotbear]

thank you, a simultaneous reaction there:ok:

[wobble2plank]

An accident is often preceded by a chain of unexpected events leading to the calamitous loss of the aircraft.

Hence we have accident investigation to provide the facts leading up to the event which in turn can be used for safety training leading to the prevention of the same said circumstances leading up to the accident.

Learn from the mistakes of others as you don't have time to make them all yourself.

The fact that these pilots were investigators is not 'ironic' it just shows that these sad events can occur to even the most experienced and prepared of aviators.

Perhaps though this could be a salient lesson to all those pilot managers who think they are more prepared for emergencies even though they fly far less than the line swines as they read all the incident reports?

[Brian Abraham]

Agaricus bisporus, beat me to it. Humour it can be as high lighted below. The original poster does not make clear his intent with the use of the word, though I side on the humour definition. With you on this one Rainboe, :ok: tasteless.

i·ro·ny (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i·ro·nies
1.
a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.
2.
a. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs:

[Michael Birbeck]

As has been said, in a purely pedantic sense, this incident was ironic but from a statistical point of view these FAA inspectors faced approximately the same risk of failure to their aircraft as any similarly legally maintained aircraft of that type with the same hours on all components.

As to whether it was tasteful to raise the subject, well taste is a subjective issue.

As an aside, I am not a heli pilot but as a humble fixed wing PPL I know that I am always most conscious of the possibility of aircraft failure immediately before maintenance and immediately afterwards as well.

It that ironic? No, just good sense in my book!

[Jonny Suave Trousers]

I don't often post here as you know as I am Media/SLF and would get carpeted by the prof pilots here.

Reading this forum is great entertainment in the main, it is sooo funny watching you guys and girls bicker like school children.

The reason for posting today is I simply cannot believe that you wasted so much energy over an initial post that is clearly ironic. Unless you are of course German. Or Dutch.

The differences of opinion you have amazes me. Even on technical matters, you all seem to take great pleasure in bagging the crap out of each other.

You guys are a worry.

I just have to ask, do you guys all hate each other? Or is the required ego to fly a passenger aircraft too large to get on with folks generally...

[Brian Abraham]

Reading this forum is great entertainment in the main
Glad to oblige. Perhaps we should start charging a fee. We consumers of media generally find it great entertainment in the main. Comical the lack of research that goes into copy.
You guys are a worry
From where we sit we find the media a great worry.
is the required ego to fly a passenger aircraft too large
As compared to a journalist out to get his name on a byline and refuses to let the subject proof the copy before it goes to print/air? Generally the story is about the journalist.

[Jonny Suave Trousers]

Boy, I didn't see that coming...Lol.

[bolkow]

Rainbow, whatever happened to the notion of humour being made in order to deal with tradgedy. Its how many of us lesser humans get by, it works, is fine mentally, its like the jokes about teacher burnout with the shuttle, the jokers were not unaffected it was their way of processing it.

[Agaricus bisporus]

c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.
2.
a. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs:

Humour doesn't enter into this. No connection - you're applying the wrong definition.

The quote above indicates just two of several types of irony, and the first, the literary style, is clearly not relevant here. Helicopter accidents are nothing whatsoever to do with literary style - what a bizarre suggestion!

The second defiition however is the one that does apply; the apparent incongruity between safety inspectors going flying and then having an accident. You wouldn't question the irony of a health and safety herbert falling off his doorstep, would you?

ie a perfectly logical, accurate and acceptable use of the word "ironic".

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I have to agree with JST on this one. It is clearly ironic that a poor bloke who spends his life trying to make things safer loses his life in the very subject of his labours. It is a tragedy also, and I agree with RAINBOW (to a degree) that there is some implied pleasure by the poster.

Still if we did not try to see something humerous in all tragedies, just to keep us sane, none of us would probably get airborne.

Having said all that the backstabbing and sniping does not give a very good impression of the authors posting here and yes, maybe some EGOs are so big that the real message (That it is first and foremost a tragedy) is lost whilst the EGOs clash over the meaning of a word, or the implied meaning of someones ill-thought-out posting.

I think it is therefore far significant that the likes of a journalist can see the IRONY in some of the above posts that imply serious character defects in a workgroup that is supposed to be lauded for its stability, CRM, and general all round good-eggedness (not sure if that is a real word).

If someone makes a bit of a booboo, surely a gently chastisment would suffice, rather than the holier than thou lambastments that seem to be a feature of these types of thread.

But, most of all, the thread is about a terrible tradegy!!!!!!

[FH1100 Pilot]

I don't find the accident ironic at all, but I was more concerned with cessnapuppy's last sentence:
The most important inspection is the one you didnt do.
Uhh, did I miss something? Because in *none* of the reports I've read on this accident was there any speculation as to the cause.

It's bad enough when helicopters crash. It's worse when people die in them.

[JBL99]

But, most of all, the thread is about a terrible tradegy!!!!!! You'd be hard pressed to determine that so far!

[Michael Birbeck]

I think it is therefore far significant that the likes of a journalist can see the IRONY in some of the above posts that imply serious character defects in a workgroup that is supposed to be lauded for its stability, CRM, and general all round good-eggedness (not sure if that is a real word).



Oh come on, you falling for the biggest Catch 22 trap of all time, a bit like the judge asking the man accused of wife beating, "so when did you stop beating your wife?"

Pilots, even commercial ones, are no more or less filled with pomposity and ego than the general population, including, dare I say it, journalists.

No irony intended, honest! :)

[Rainboe]

Rainbow, whatever happened to the notion of humour being made in order to deal with tradgedy.
I'm sure the widows and fatherless children will have their pain greatly diminished if they read here knowing that someone has injected a note of 'humour' into their loss to make it all a bit better!

[cessnapuppy]

Without irony comes the following;
Dead: Charles Farmer, 59 tenure with FAA (about 1 month)
Critically injured: Larry Wells, 58 3 year veteran in Jackson, Mississippi was recently named by his peers FAA field inspector of the year in the category for pilotsThey were doing certification flights when the event occurred.
Yes, I know a bit more about this particular incident than I let on the first post (and even in this one) but as some have correctly ascertained, it was an ironic statement- no intent to provide mirth but perhaps reflection, and for some, introspection. 'Uneventful' does not mean 'safe'. -regards

[Brian Abraham]

An Aussie refuse collector (Garbo) is going along a street picking up the
wheelie bins (garbage cans) and emptying them into his dustcart (garbage truck).

He goes to one house where the bin hasn't been left out, so he has a quick look for it, goes round the back of the house, but still can't see it.
So, against the rules but in the spirit of kindness, he knocks on the door.

There's no answer.

Being a kindly and conscientious bloke, he knocks again - much harder.

Eventually a Chinese bloke comes to the door. 'Harro!' says the Chinese chappie.

'Gidday, mate! Where's ya bin?' asks the collector

'I bin on toiret' explains the Chinese bloke, a bit perplexed.

Realizing the little foreign fellow had misunderstood him, the bin man smiles and tries again. 'No mate, where's your dust bin?'.

'I dust been to toiret, I toll you!'' says the Chinese man - still perplexed.

'Listen,' says the collector. 'You're misunderstanding me. Where's your wheelie bin?'

'Ok. Ok ' replies the man with a sheepish grin. ' I wheelie bin havin sex wiffa wife's sistah......

Who was it that said "What we have here is a failure to communicate". Whether it be reading the written word, or listening to some one talking, we all take away a different interpretation, and it's because of that problem that legions of lawyers are employed arguing in court about what the meaning of one particular word in a sentence REALLY means. I don't think we need to get our knickers in a twist over it though, but accept it as a problem inherent in being who we are - human. Sorry for the OT Mods, delete if wished.