Gliding Clubs - recommendations please

[2hotwot]

Can anyone recommend a good gliding club who can put together a course for a PPL'A' and Bronze 'C' to get some of the qualifying flights for Cross Country Cert and Silver 'C'

Somewhere with some reliable soaring in the next month or two in the UK but which could also be in Europe?

What are your experiences and recomendations?

[ProfChrisReed]

First, nowhere in the UK has reliable soaring weather at any time of the year!

You don't say anything about location, so I'm assuming you want to stay at the club and have an intensive course put together for you. That means you need a club with 7 day instruction.

If you have your Bronze and are in current practice, then doing your 50k XC should ertainly be achievable. The 5 hour flight will be more of a problem because of the shorter days, but might just be manageable in the flatlands in September, otherwise you're looking to use hill/wave lift. A 1,000m height gain is unlikely in the flatlands except in the first week or so of September.

This narrows the list down a lot.

1. September, flatlands club. The weather in the SE is probably the best, so you should check out the Soaring Centre (Husbands Bosworth, Leciestershire), Cambridge (Gransden Lodge) and Norfolk (Tibenham).

2. September or October, hills. Midland (Long Mynd), Black Mountains (Talgarth), Yorkishire (Sutton Bank) would all be possibles, though Black Mountains doesn't have on-site accommodation. In Scotland, Deeside (Aboyne) and Scottish Gliding Centre (Portmoak) are known for good flights in the Autumn. October, around the equinox, is peak wave season, so you need to book now. It's quite possible to do all three Silver legs in a single flight in wave.

Contact details and websites via http://www.gliding.co.uk (http://www.gliding.co.uk/). Other UK clubs would be delighted to put something together, but most fly only weekends and one day midweek.

I can't offer advice for Europe, though have heard that Jaca (Spanish Pyrenees) is a gentle mountain site which might work for Silver leg attempts. The Alps are amazing, I'm told, but not for the inexperienced and much training is required.

If I were in your position, I think I'd select the Soaring Centre over the next fortnight, and then either Black Mountains or Yorkshire in mid-October.

However, the weather will be pure guesswork, and you could spend the entire time on the ground! If you can simply go the next day, then look for a run of sunshine (but not a long spell of southerlies in a static high) for September, and SW winds for October.

[mary meagher]

Both Aboyne and Talgarth are superb in September and October, but not cheap. Also, a much higher level of ability and experience is required to exploit the amazing ridge and wave soaring available solo.

For that cross country endorsement and Silver C, a 7 day a week club will be a better bet, and one not too far away from your home, in case the week you have set aside turns out to have terrible weather. Husbands Bosworth (the Soaring Centre), Gransden Lodge, near Cambridge, Lasham, near Alton, Hants. And of course, my club, Shenington, near Banbury, is 7 days, with professional instructors Monday through Friday, offering airtow and winch
launches. We can set off cross country in four directions, not a lot of clubs are that happily located when it comes to avoiding controlled airspace.

After October, the very thought of trying to do five hours on a ridge gives me chilblaines!

[chrisN]

One other personal opinion, to add to the others’ facts above.

Aboyne has a microclimate which often gives soaring possibilities when most other sites can’t. The air dries out coming over the Cairngorms. If you can face the drive to get there, I would say the chances are better there than most places to complete a condensed conversion process.

Chris N.

[oversteer]

Booker (Wycombe) will be fine for a lot of it, motor glider for the nav/cross country and full time instruction, plus good options for 50k. Only tricky point might be the duration element, whether we get good enough weather in Sep for this is anyone's guess!

[2hotwot]

Thanks for all the good advice. I will make some calls tomorrow.

Problem is that after another poor summer in my end of the country this is the only way I am going to keep the certificates coming. I would be interested to hear what sort of gliding weather different areas of the UK have had this year. Most of our good days have been mid-week.

[kestrel539]

Usk can offer you the X/C endorsment, plus 7 day a week A/T launches.
Good ridge/wave in NW airflow.

[snapper1]

I love Aboyne but I'm not sure its the place I'd recommend for getting your Silver. As has been mentioned, autumn is the recognised time for wave flying up there. But if you have no experience of aero-towing up through the rotor you may be surprised at how rough it can be. You then have to come back down through it at the end of your flight then land on a tarmac runway - 27/09 -that's just 12 feet wide, so your x/wind landing technique has to good as well. Once up there your 5 hours would probably be a doddle in wave but you need to know about the extra hazzards of wave flying. Your height gain would be easy. But the 50km is not straightforward as there is a lot of unlandable terrain around. The club don't like you to land their gliders away at other clubs so you would have to think of a task that got you back to Aboyne. As an illustration of how tricky it can be, a good friend of mine decided on a remote start from Feshie then back to Aboyne. He climbed to FL190 but by the time he got to Feshie he was down to FL50. He managed to scrape back, but considering the height of the mountains he had to cross, it was not a relaxing experience. To cap it all his logger trace showed he had turned half a killometre short at Feshie so he couldn't claim his 50km. Try somewhere a bit easier for your Silver badge flights.

[cats_five]

A 5-hour should be possible at Portmoak during all but the depths of winter - *if* the weather co-operates, and can be a big 'if'. A silver height is possible at any time of the year if you get wave and can get into it.

However, silver distance for a visiting pilot without their own glider is probably a lot more problematic because of the issues of landing out a club glider when you are a visitor. I suspect that as a visitor you would not get permission to flying a club glider other than locally.

Do you have the XC endorsement? If not you will also need that before attempting the 50k at any club.

You might do better to use the winter to make sure you are current flying gliders (both winch and aerotow) and have the XC endorsement ready for April next year. If you look at the BGA ladder for the various clubs mentioned, the recorded flights will give you an idea what might be possible at that club at the time of year you are looking at.

PS you might also want to look at the possibilities at Eden Soaring, near Penrith. I believe they have the longest ridge in the UK!

[2hotwot]

cats five
Thanks, yes I am current, yes I need the 2hrs flight for the XC endorsement and that is the block. I did the nav ex and field landing 18 months ago (now out of time) but I am stuck for the 2 hour flight. Hence the need to find another site to make the break and hence the desire to make something out of this season. If I can get anything else - bonus.

Based on the good advice here I have narrowed down some favorites and I will probably try for Sutton Bank. It looks interesting to a flatlander and I am sure there is some fun to be had there.

Now everyone; tell me why you would have chosen differently :)

[ProfChrisReed]

tell me why you would have chosen differently

If I were from Cornwall (=Kernow?) then I think I would have chosen Talgarth.

Reasons:

1. Much shorter drive.

2. Having flown at both, I think Talgarth offers much more variety in the way of ridge soaring, which is what is likely to be the most reliable. Two hours on the Talgarth ridges would be interesting and fun, even keeping local, and five hours would not be too dull. At Sutton Bank, there are fewer wind directions where the ridge works. The other good thing about Talgarth is that the airfield is at the bottom (well, half way down really) and so ridge soaring is possible even if there is low cloud over the tops.

However, Sutton Bank has clubhouse, accommodation and bar, and the N York Moors are lovelier than the Black Mountains to my eye.

Against Talgarth, the airfield is more challenging for the low hours pilot, plus the airfield and clubhouse will close down when flying stops.

Usk might be worth checking out - I've not flown there and didn't know it was a 7 day operation.

Even closer to you is Nympsfield, which I visited this summer. Nice clubhouse (though I heard the rooms are rather basic), fairly easy airfield, reasonable ridge in N/NW winds and some wave I'm told. Check if it's 7 days over the winter.

Shenington, as Mary posted, is a really nice club, but I think the ridge is less reliable and wave scarcer. Good for a trip in September or from April next year, relying more on thermal lift.

I'd say if you're concentrating on the flying possibilities, reconsider Talgarth. If you want a good place if the soaring fails, Sutton Bank is probably a better bet.

[GliderJ15]

I'm suprised no one has suggested Long Mynd - easy way of getting two hours done.

[2hotwot]

Thanks for all the good advice folks. It is much appreciated. With your suggestions and some phoning round it looks to be Sutton Bank next week.

I ended up looking for a good ridge, availability (because there are not that many sites offering courses this time of year), and accommodation on site. The Mynd was high on the list but they were booked.

I will post some reflective thoughts when I get back.

Has anyone noticed that Talgarth do not mention runway lengths on their web-site. (ominous?)

[ProfChrisReed]

Has anyone noticed that Talgarth do not mention runway lengths on their web-site. (ominous?)

I should have mentioned this (though not from Talgarth, but have a few flights there). Think crown bowling green with wind gradient and/or curlover. However, if you can control your speed on approach and follow the briefing, it's not nearly as alarming as one might expect.

Have a great week at Sutton Bank - forecast looks pretty reasonable, so far as anyone can tell that far ahead.

[mary meagher]

Sutton Bank will surely test your mettle! And they do know how to have a good time; nothing like an in house bar to drown your sorrows. I remember an old boy telling us he promised his wife to only partake of a single (malt!)....

Talgarth is still worth a visit some day, preferably in a group so you can all appreciate properly the local restaurants....there are plenty of good places to stay. With a proper breakfast included. The club can recommend. (I used to stay in the Hotel Mondeo......)

As for the runway lengths, it don't work that way. Land up the slope, stop when you get to the clubhouse. Otherwise you may roll down the other side! A few dual flights will acquaint you with the techniques and the wonderful multifaceted ridges that stretch for miles. Just don't land in the reservoir......

Have fun! that's the only reason to fly a glider.

[mary meagher]

This is thread creep big time, but did any of you gliding people see that elegant Stemmme ( I think it was a Stemme) - Kate Humble having a ride down a very rocky ridge with a Saudi Astronaut prince..... That was a beautiful glider indeed, self launching, and of course they had a camera crew to film the whole thing. Now how about the Saudi desert for your 5 hours??

Of course he couldn't resist doing a beatup at the end. (competition finish, m'lud)......

[sollas]

you can do your 50k aboyne to easterton I think, and you can get aerotow re-launch to get home or if you have the pennies might be able to get an aerotow home.

Best thing to do is make sure someone is around on the day that can crew and pick you up if you land out.

We have a junior, asw 19 and discus for solo flights than can often be hired for the day or week if booked in advance - its on the website

We've also got the airspace box that can be opened up from FL195 to FL240 on any day and can fill oxygen for you.

Never know, might get a diamond height too?

hope you have fun and good flying where ever you go