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FL170
31st Aug 2009, 08:11
Just heard this on the news

World News Australia - Passenger takes control as pilot faints (http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1080547/Passenger-takes-control-as-pilot-faints)

Report doesn't sound all that accurate surprise surprise, I heard the 'passenger' was a dead head/navigator.

das Uber Soldat
31st Aug 2009, 08:44
yeh I listened to the poor bugger as he made his approach. It was firescan 233 (i think its 233), the kingair. I think its rego is LAB. Anyway, he sounded pretty shaken up but made a safe approach and had services waiting for him.

Glad he's ok! :)

Elevator Driver
31st Aug 2009, 08:49
yikes thats a bit of a worry :eek:

PennyBenjamin
31st Aug 2009, 09:56
very sad....hope it was not GK? Does anyone know?

kingRB
31st Aug 2009, 10:03
hope its not serious and he keeps his medical

Jabawocky
31st Aug 2009, 12:55
The king Air is an amazing aircraft, and I am sure its not the plane at fault, but there have been a number of King Air drivers suffer in recent years:uhoh:............ if you were supersticious...:ooh:

I hope all concerned are OK and its not game over for the pilot.

Dances With Dingoes
31st Aug 2009, 14:15
Regards to the pilot an hopes he makes a full recovery.

For the young ones it is a good example of why you should have insurence on your medicals. I have known a few people that have lost their class 1 and therefore their career with no insurance. All that time and money up in smoke, very sad.

remoak
1st Sep 2009, 02:14
keeps his medical

Highly unlikely, sadly. There would have to be extraordinary extenuating circumstances.

powerstall
1st Sep 2009, 02:26
Good this is that, the King Air's can be flown single pilot crew. :ok:

Horatio Leafblower
1st Sep 2009, 02:52
So, Dr Remoak, you have examined the patient have you? :hmm:

Atlas Shrugged
1st Sep 2009, 03:52
Maybe it stalled......maybe it didnt........;);)

remoak
1st Sep 2009, 12:08
So, Dr Remoak, you have examined the patient have you?

Don't need to. Unexplained losses of consciousness during flight almost always result in the permanent loss of a medical. Even when you can demonstrate that there was a reasonable medical explanation, it can be difficult to retain your medical, particularly if there is any possibility that it could recur. I would have thought that was obvious.

Had about six colleagues have this happen to them for one reason or another, over the last 20 years. They all lost their medicals on the spot and never got them back, despite trying for years in some cases. One was just a simple case of hypoglaecymia - still never got his medical back...

morno
1st Sep 2009, 12:31
So what about a simple case of Gastro? Surely they can't permanently remove your medical for that?

morno

Brian Abraham
2nd Sep 2009, 01:33
This is a replay of a King Air incident enroute Norfolk or Lord Howe Island to Sydney some 20 years or so ago. Believe the pilot never got his ticket back.

remoak
2nd Sep 2009, 03:16
So what about a simple case of Gastro? Surely they can't permanently remove your medical for that?

They can, and almost certainly will. The point is that anything that causes you to lose consciousness that suddenly is a no-no. I've had gastro before and the onset took hours, not minutes or seconds, and I never lost consciousness - although the effects can be debilitating.

The medical people won't (and shouldn't) take the risk of a re-ocurrance, simple as that.

morno
2nd Sep 2009, 03:38
Sure, I understand what you're saying Remoak about being sudden etc., and I agree in this instance it is highly unlikely that it was gastro and this poor bugger will more than likely loose his medical for life. But consider the following scenario. You're flying in the outback, it's a 3hr flight, with very little choices of landing points along the way that would be able to provide medical assistance once on the ground.

In the few of hours before the flight, you're feeling a bit off, but put it down to maybe just being a bit de-hydrated and hungry. You drink up, have a bite to eat and think you'll be right in the next hour or so. Meanwhile, it's time to leave, you jump into the aircraft and off you fly. Half way into the flight you're really starting to feel unwell now. Maybe that curry you got from the Mindil Beach Markets last night wasn't such a good idea after all. You're now rapidly going from just a bit of a pain in the gut, to severe sickness.

You have a look around and find a major town close by that will be able to provide medical assistance. However you're now starting to feel faint, throw up massively, and pass out for 30 seconds or so (I have experienced severe gastro before where I did pass out. Thankfully it wasn't while I was flying!). Thankfully you wake up, decide that town close to you is a pretty good option now and you divert and make a safe landing to be met by medical personell on the ground.

Surely if the above situation transpired, and it was clearly evident that the sudden onset of severe gastro was the cause, they couldn't take your medical away from you? Hopefully common sense would prevail, but seeing it's CASA, that's not always possible, :bored:.

morno

Mr. Hat
2nd Sep 2009, 05:10
Lets let the DAME and the related specialists decide what went wrong and if he or she will fly again. Many different things can cause a person to faint and not all of them will result in a permanent loss of licence.

Best leave it to the experts.

OpsNormal
2nd Sep 2009, 05:44
Mr Hat said it again, indeed I believe that was the point Horatio may well have been making as well. Leave it to those who deal in these matters.

I also wish the person involved a speedy recovery (if they haven't already recovered) and hopefully it isn't anything serious.

the wizard of auz
2nd Sep 2009, 10:27
Personally, I blame global warming.

remoak
2nd Sep 2009, 11:32
Many different things can cause a person to faint and not all of them will result in a permanent loss of licence.Virtually all of them do. No authority is going to take a risk on it happening again. In one or two of the airlines I have worked for, any such event would be instant suspension and eventual dismissal on medical grounds. Airlines don't want to take the risk either. Severe gastro is probably the only one you could get away with.

Sure, leave it to the medicos, no problem with that. However it is a salutary warning to all pilots to not get themselves into a situation where they might get sick during the flight, and morno's scenario should ring a few bells with most of us!

Agree on the global warming idea though.

sms777
3rd Sep 2009, 00:07
I blame GFC. (lack of funds to fix the aircon in the King Air)

airsupport
3rd Sep 2009, 00:56
I had a similar thing happen to me around 20 years ago, just the Pilot and me on a Kingair operating a charter flight from Brisbane to Townsville.

He nodded off to sleep for most of the flight, and I just assumed that was it as he said he was very tired, never considered he could have passed out, which luckily he hadn't and he woke up well before TSV.

Why do they still allow these flights on Kingairs with only one Pilot. :ugh:

Phantasm
3rd Sep 2009, 01:14
Highly unlikely, sadly. There would have to be extraordinary extenuating circumstances.

Sadly? I should bloody well hope a pilot who falls unconscious at the helm (not to mention on approach!) would lose his medical!

These incidents are becoming too common and make a mockery of the aviation medical system.

remoak
3rd Sep 2009, 06:16
So you couldn't give a toss about the poor guy who just lost his career, almost certainly through no fault of his own?

Nobody sets out to have a medical emergency, and no medical certification system can foresee every possible medical event.

Have a little compassion.

C-change
3rd Sep 2009, 10:45
Does anyone actually know how this bloke is ?

I asked one of the Firebird AS50's on Wed if they knew and they didn't know.

Anyone with an update on his condition ?

sms777
3rd Sep 2009, 14:29
So... Dr remoak. We were under the impression that he was never to regain his drivers lisence according to your authophsy... What is the sudden concern?

remoak
3rd Sep 2009, 15:21
Because it is perfectly possible to understand the seriousness of a situation, while having compassion for the person who is in it. Not something Aussies understand, apparently.

ausgrlpilot
6th Sep 2009, 10:47
Hi guys, lost my medical a few months back due LOC as a pax on commercial flight. Had a bad cold, dehydrated etc. Was taken off to A&E and problem found, 3 days later pacemaker inserted. Fit, healthy, early 20's, class 1 medical, ECG's perfect etc. Not a hint of a problem.

Massive shock to the system to even though just starting out in GA, have spent probs over 100k on training let alone everything else.

CASA avmed not too bad, only took about 3 weeks to regain class one medical. With appropriate treatment anything possible. Not a fun situation though thats for sure.

Wouldn't be so quick to make judgement of whether an individual should retain medical or not. Let the guys who know what they're on about make decisions. I now have a redundancy system in place! Probably safer than some 50+ yr old airline pilot just waiting for something to go wrong...

Hope the guy is sorted and back in the air soon.

NOSIGN
6th Sep 2009, 12:35
C-Change,

heard a day after the incident that the Pilot is ok.

Phantasm
7th Sep 2009, 07:58
remoak,

I wasn't trying to be incompassionate, and I can sympathize with anybody who gets slapped in the face with a fish as big as this. I'm going to be honest now - it's situations like these that get up my back so to speak... a very good friend of mine is a long distance runner, absolutely incredible level of fitness, but he was failed on his initial due to his eyesight. Not because it was so bad, but because the difference between his eyes was so many dioptres apart. It wasn't a great deal, but enough to prohibit a referral.

No, what makes me angry is the system that prevents a perfectly healthy (and capable) individual from pursuing a dream.

On the contrary, I completely agree with you, and that's exactly my point - nobody can predict these things.