View Full Version : Single Kingair VH-JMU in PNG
Night Beetle
20th Aug 2009, 10:16
I see VH-JMU going into PNG a fair bit,doing both domestic and international work, who up there has it on their AOC or foreign AOC RA\APNG???
Bean counters would love it,,,,,,,,,only one engine
Must be the new low cost charter, plenty of C208's, baby kingair's and grown up kingair's there to when last in Moresby.
:suspect:
OzExpat
20th Aug 2009, 12:36
For a start, JMU is a PC12. It is not involved in commercial operations. This same aeroplane goes into various parts of Indonesia and, as I understand it, even further afield. I'll let you do the rest of the research for yourself. :hmm:
PyroTek
20th Aug 2009, 16:10
single king-air?
Pilatus PC-12 you mean!:}
JMU spends much time hanging around YRED.. or did when I hung around there.
Time for me to go to bed,
:ok:Pyro
Night Beetle
20th Aug 2009, 19:47
What goes on at Kairik that requires customs officers to be flown in for special flights direct to TOWNSVILLE.................Private flights my bum:suspect:
tipsy2
21st Aug 2009, 01:00
Beetle
It matters not whether an international flight is private, charter, military or RPT, it is still required to comply with entry/exit regulations ie Customs clearance.
tipsy
Waghi Warrior
21st Aug 2009, 08:29
TL-KRK-TL, I would have no idea what they would be bringing out of KRK ??? Shinny rocks maybe ?
Beetle, looks like you have some kind of an issue here man !
Who says it's not a private operation,there's a number of private operators operating in and out of PNG from Australia on a regular basis. A couple the comes to mind is Curtain Brothers with their King Air and Beech 1900, Pacific Reliners also have a Caravan that frequents Lihir Island every few months, when Lihir Gold shuts their mill down for maintenance. There is also quite a few commercial operators in PNG who do more private flying than commercial flying, as they are owned by companys who have bought the aircraft for there own use.
tipsy2
21st Aug 2009, 23:40
Ozepat would know, as he is with PNG CAA !
Ozex is too much of a professional to reveal any privileged information.
tipsy
aseanaero
22nd Aug 2009, 01:37
I sat in the right hand seat of a PC-12 from Halim to Kalimantan then onto Malaysia a few months ago , I have to say the PC-12 is very impressive.
It flys well , has a large flight envelope , well equipped and well finished.
The biggest resistance factor here in Indonesia is the single engine , I spoke with a medivac operator this week who has a Super King Air 200 and he said although they like the PC-12 and would like to use one their customers want a twin so that's what they get.
geeup
23rd Aug 2009, 01:12
VH-JMU is an illegal operation in PNG it is not doing private work at all! :suspect:
7mile
23rd Aug 2009, 08:17
Joseph might think it is a Russian Helicopter and 'approved' the operation himself...................:E
geeup
25th Aug 2009, 23:29
Is APNG trying to take the PC12 to court?
Straightup&over
26th Aug 2009, 00:01
gee,
geeup you would know this how?? define a private op and than tell me it is not privately operated and is operating illegally. If it was an illegal operation than why has the plane not been confiscated or refused entry? maybe because it has appoval and cleares customs upon every entry and does so on a regular basis. :ugh:
Upon a little research (not hard these days with the internet) one would find that this aeroplane is operated in and out of png by a mining consulting agency ( gee an aeroplane operated by a mining consulting agency flying to a mine, sounds dodgy to me :ok::D)
Night Beetle
26th Aug 2009, 04:26
Seems like another way of bypassing the PNG aviation laws to me
So this consultancy company must own all the 'shinny rocks" that it flys around..........My bet that there is a big quarry of shinny rocks nearly everywhere it goes
CAA,as has been shown would have no idea.........
It is anotherway of bucking the system.....good luck to APNG for having the "plums"
morno
26th Aug 2009, 05:03
Night Beetle,
If you're so concerned and convinced something illegal is going on, why don't you report it to Customs?
Sounds like you've just got it in for them. Give it a break.
morno
Night Beetle
26th Aug 2009, 05:29
Morno\Tipsy
I think you are missing the point
It has nothing to do with Customs,it IS PNG CAA.No connection there.
What started as simple question,still has not produced any credable answers.
The operators in PNG are missing out,that is my angle.
If it is shown as legit,then I stand corrected. But prove it..........
rcoight
26th Aug 2009, 05:43
Night Beetle
I know absolutely nothing about the operation in question, but...
It's not up to them to "prove it" to someone on an anonymous forum.
It's up to you - or anyone else - to prove that what they are doing is not legit
PS. What the hell are "shinny rocks"?
morno
26th Aug 2009, 06:27
Night Beetle,
I think you are missing the point even more. If you're so concerned about it, then why don't you let the relevant authorities know??
Bitching and whinging on pprune about it isn't going to do a thing, other than show that you've got some sort of agenda.
morno
Waghi Warrior
26th Aug 2009, 11:13
Sorry I can't spell,maybe to many "White Cans".
The "Shinny Rocks" I'm referring to is GOLD.
I heard the machine going out to Lihir today.
In regard to the aircraft I recon that machine would be an idea aircraft for PNG if operated appropriately in PNG. I can't wait for the experts to shoot me down on that statement. What's the S/E service ceiling of a B200 at ISA+20 ?I should know but I can't remember,but I do know that it's no where 14000 feet at MTOW.
the wizard of auz
26th Aug 2009, 13:00
CAA,as has been shown would have no idea.........
Unless there has been a breach of any rules, they don't have to have any idea.
What rules are you proposing have been breached?. if the aircraft is being operated by the company that owns it, and are using it for transport of their own employees, they are quite within the rules as PVT ops. Mining consultants do usually fly in and out of mines that produce "shinny" rocks. :eek:
Just out of interest, as its been several years since I have flown a PC12, what is the service ceiling of the PC12? after a single engine failure. :ouch:
Is it me or did you just out yourself by forgetting to log in under the other user name?. To many "White cans" again?? ( I prefer the green ones myself :E )
PyroTek
26th Aug 2009, 15:32
Just out of interest, as its been several years since I have flown a PC12, what is the service ceiling of the PC12? after a single engine failure. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/shiner.gif
You Can't be serious... :ugh:... can you?
:ok:Pyro
j3pipercub
27th Aug 2009, 00:23
Pyro...Might want to read to post before wiz's then edit yours somewhat...I believe upon re-reading it you will see it is sarcasm
j3
The Green Goblin
27th Aug 2009, 01:04
An NDB on a stormy night in a PC12 on one would be interesting :}
pithblot
27th Aug 2009, 04:57
Goblin
An NDB on a stormy night in a PC12 on one would be interesting
Yeah, but not nearly as interesting as an NDB on a stormy night in a B200 on one!
Pithblot
The Green Goblin
27th Aug 2009, 05:01
Goblin
Quote:
An NDB on a stormy night in a PC12 on one would be interesting
Yeah, but not nearly as interesting as interesting as an NDB on a stormy night in a B200 on one!
Except when you land afterwards in the B200 you thank your lucky stars you have two. In the PC12 you thank your lucky stars it didn't quit and ask yourself why you do this again? :}
j3pipercub
27th Aug 2009, 06:29
I'd take one PT-6 over two Garretts GG :}
The Green Goblin
27th Aug 2009, 08:29
Oyyyy
Be nice you!
the wizard of auz
27th Aug 2009, 10:58
I'm with the cub man. :}
OzExpat
27th Aug 2009, 12:52
Ozepat would know, as he is with PNG CAA !
For the benefit of whoever wrote that comment before editting it out, I have no idea who "Ozepat" [sic] is, but OzExpat certainly does know and, for those who are sufficiently bored to check my profile, you will find that I am far from anonymous here (unlike a person who was being clever in trying to "out" me!).
I've already said as much as I intend to say about this matter on an anonymous forum. To the person who wishes to understand the situation better - as you clearly know me and where I am - why not come in and talk to me about it?
Night Beetle
31st Aug 2009, 23:28
FYI as promised
www.casr.gov.pg (http://www.casr.gov.pg) Part 129
the wizard of auz
1st Sep 2009, 04:03
cant look at it as its a reported attack site.
But it just so happens I have the rules at hand.
so, can you clarify that your definite that the operator meets the requirements for being called an air operator?.
129.3 : Definitions
:Air operation means the carriage of passengers, mail or cargo by air for hire or reward:
If the operation is not by definition an air operation, surely part 129 doesn't count. it would clearly mean they are simply a PVT operation going about their business, wouldn't it?
OzExpat
1st Sep 2009, 10:24
Our website has been attacked several times in the past 8-12 months while we have had no access to it. The ISP that hosts the site hasn't been in any hurry to help us so we have, quite recently, gone to another ISP to build and host a new site. This, it is hoped, will be a short-term answer because there's a plan to recruit our own IT staff to build, host and maintain our own site.
Sorry if anyone has been inconvenienced by lack of access to our current site but we truly had no control and nobody can tell us how the site was hacked to become an "attack site", when we had no access or control over it. With all of our other problems, we most certainly could've done without this one. :{
Night Beetle
1st Sep 2009, 21:39
to auz and others
if this reference that I put into this post was available earlier say, in post #2 it would have saved everyone their time.
It answers my questions and shows that VH-JMU is able to operate legally on commercial ops in PNG so long as it meets the obligations of the Act.
It is not a private op as readers were saying, read Part 129 in full.
It would appear that the 90 days then the ac needs to be P2-ed does not exist anymore.
Night Beetle,
How do you KNOW that it's not conducting a private operation though?
And what do you have against the company that owns this PC-12?? They not give you a job or something?
morno
the wizard of auz
2nd Sep 2009, 06:22
Like I said in my previous post, unless the operator is designated an air operator via the definition I quoted, part 129 doesn't concern them. so they are exempted from the part 129.1 (a)(1)(2).
I will have a read further into it and see if I can make out what your refering to. maybe I missed something.
JMU is flying shinny rocks out of Kairik and Kiunya these are 2 separate mines owned and operated by 2 separate companies.... It cannot be a private operation! :eek:
P2 machines cannot fly into Cairns then onto Mt Isa and do work for Australian mining companies. :suspect:
Unless I'm wrong :bored:
Yes some exemption can be obtained to do this but for no longer the 90 days and JMU has been well over 90 days
the wizard of auz
2nd Sep 2009, 10:23
Proof is what the regulator requires to do anything about it. otherwise it is quite believable that it is a company flying their own employees in and out of various mines to do the consulting work they are employed to do, thus making it a PVT flight. if it can be proven that the operation is indeed a commercial operation, I am sure they will suffer the deserved wrath of the regulator. :ok:
What the hell are "shinny rocks"??
Out Of Africa
2nd Sep 2009, 14:11
Gold! Morno, Gold! (Geeup can't spell but is good at mixing up the pot!):ok:
JMU arrives with 1 POB gun guards come load boxes gun guards go JMU departs with 1 POB :*
Commerical operation....
geeup, could it be possible that whatever is loaded on to the aircraft might just be the aircraft owners own property and he is taking it to wherever he wants ! Which of course he can do. Keep trying to twist this into something it isn't, you might finish up with either a good novel to sell or even a film script. Perhaps you could call it "Conspiracy Theory" and get Tom Cruise to star in it!
7mile I have no "Conspiracy Theory" and I have no intention of starting one.:mad:
What I do know is VH-JMU is moving GOLD from Kuinya direct Townville for LGL on a regular basis. :cool:
FACT not a theory seen with my own eyes.... :hmm:
As for the rest of the post BE20 vs PC12s and service ceiling etc I don't care much for all I'm stating is the above fact! :oh:
Which is illegal in my eyes :ugh:
Straightup&over
3rd Sep 2009, 05:50
As stated before Geeup it has been deemed to be pvt ops regardless of what it is carrying (people, documents, etc). all the mine company has to do is own a share in the company that owns the aeroplane thus making the plane owned by the mine company = pvt ops. End of storie.:D As asked before what is your personal problem with these people?? did you operate a plane for the mines in the past??
straightup
Then why bother whinging like a little girl on PPrune?
There are other, more appropriate avenues to express your concern.
morno
I have no personal problems with the people who operate the aircraft at all nor the company who operates it. I have not worked with them for them or against them.
I struggle to see how it is legal but if it is then so be it...
Your 100% right if I felt so inclined I would approach the CAA as I believe APNG is doing with legal representation however all I was doing is voicing an opinion which I'm entitled to do.
My opinion still stands I believe its illegal.
Once again refer to the top I have no personal problems with these people however I do have problems with VH registered aircraft operation in PNG as I have problems with P2 machines operating in Australia.
Where have I made an personal attacks on anyone???
OzExpat
8th Sep 2009, 08:53
Just in case some people haven't yet heard something that was announced to the industry at the Safety Seminar last month, CAA PNG now has a Confidential reporting System - i.e. a telephone line with a recorded message that guides folks in making a confidential report. The number is :-
323 0629
There was supposed to be an AIC on it but that's been delayed... somewhere. :ugh: