UAV Pilots

[clear to land]

A thread elsewhere says that the RAF is accepting applications from ex military pilots from the Commonwealth to become UAV pilots with 39 SQN. Does anyone have any information/links leading to this, as it sounds very interesting.?! Thanks.

[Prop-Ed]

What about the REAL issue surrounding all UAV topics?: Will they get to wear flying suits!?

There, sorry, couldn't resist but it was surley only a matter of time before some tw@t asked the question.

Right, back to the thread......

[The B Word]

A thread elsewhere says that the RAF is accepting applications from ex military pilots from the Commonwealth to become UAV pilots with 39 SQN

There is, I understand, an offer to all Commonwealth pilots if they want to apply for transfer (without guarantee) - that said there is no standing agreement that they will go to 39 Sqn (that part is fiction!). All pilots trying for Reaper will 'join the queue' with the rest of QSPs that want to go!

We did take a bunch of RNZAF A4 drivers to the RAF FJ fleet a few years back - even they did not know where they were posted to until they had been boarded.

I heard from a mate in Manning that we are rapidly approaching aircrew manning balance with the down-turn in the airline industry - seems pretty plausible to me? Therefore, I doubt there is an active drive to recruit ex-pilots from the Commonwealth.

So, my friend, your source is quite incorrect...

The B Word

[KPax]

I believe an Air Traffic Controller has just been selected, I thought this had been trialled and binned.

[BEagle]

I can't help thinking that anyone from the Commonwealth wanting both to come to the UK and to be employed as a drone driver must be pretty desperate....

[The B Word]

I believe an Air Traffic Controller has just been selected, I thought this had been trialled and binned.


Yes he has, but not to fly Reaper on 39 Sqn. The trial is very much alive but the graduates of the course will go into the US UAV program - this was talked about at the Waddington Airshow in the UAS display tent.

The B Word

[The B Word]

BEagle

You'd be surprised. There are plenty of pilots of all flavours wanting to fly the aircraft that is making a HUGE difference in the AFG war. There are pilots from Tornado F3/GR4, GR9, Puma, Herc, Apache and MR2 on the unit already as volunteers. I spoke to one of the drivers in AFG and he loved it (turned down a manned tour in preference).

As I have seen many on PPrune say to you before; you should open your mind to the UAV/UAS or as you call it, drone, concept.

The B Word

[Runaway Gun]

One benefit could be: a more structured work environment. Just what the family might need. Sometimes flying has to come second.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

I'm intrigued as to what training you give an air trafficker to turn him into a UAV pilot. Presumably he needs some sort of formal qualifications to operate an aircraft, even if he's not going to be sat in it? Do UAV pilots need IRTs?

[Mr Grim]

Just to clarify - you have to be a qualified pilot to fly Reaper, but any old bod can fly Predator, hence why the non aircrew types are going to the USAF. That'll be fun.

Interested why it isn't a real aeroplane? Move stick left it still turns left and I know for a fact that you use autopilot a lot less than on a VC10. Absolutely correct about sensory cues, sometimes that makes it easier, sometimes harder Most importantly the SUs love it.

[L J R]

...and IRTs, and Aircrew Medicals, and are supervised, checked, categorised....and fly every day and/or night since some time in 2007.......?


Not for everyone, but not 9-5 mon-fri....


.....and not easy to to continuously for a few years - I am unsure who else has flown in theatre every day for 2-3 years.

[Heimdall]

The move to the RAF employing non-aircrew as UAV pilots has been a long time coming, but was inevitable – a similar programme is already underway in the US. Bear in mind that the layout of the Predator Ground Control Station (GCS) was designed to make the idea of controlling a UAV acceptable to aircrew, hence the stick, rudder and throttle. In reality the Predator could just as easily be controlled by clicking a mouse, as is already happening with the Predator derived Warrior, which is flown by non-aircrew rated US Army SNCOs. Furthermore, as this system of control has always been used for the Global Hawk, and the US is now moving towards implementing a common CGS for all UAVs, it won’t be long before the ‘point and click’ method is accepted as the standard.

Of course this change will bring into question once again the need for highly trained aircrew to be employed for this task. I predict that once the non-aircrew types have proved they can do the job on the Predator A, they will eventually find their way across to the Predator B. If they have the appropriate training and can meet the required standard, then why not – surely in the cash strapped and undermanned RAF of the 21st century it should just be a question of the right man for the job, regardless of whether he wears a brevet on his chest?

Heimdall

[Occasional Aviator]

Heimdall,

there is a great deal to the complex question of who flies a UAV. You are correct, of course, that technically UAVs don't need to be controlled by a rated pilot, and that in current ops it shouldn't matter who is doing the controlling. However, a lot depends on where you want to fly your UAV. If it's only somewhere like Afghanistan or Iraq, which doesn't truly have sovereign airspace, then there's not a great issue. Looking to the future (and also to some wider ops today) there's a bit more to it. The fact that Cpl Snodgrass can fly a predator-like airframe by remote control over his battle-group area in essentially military airspace is only part of the story. Do you want to be able to fly in controlled airspace? If so, you need a rated pilot. I've been in the circuit with a Pred and talked to the pilot, and when you release weapons the man (or woman) in the loop is still critical. In these respects the operator needs many of the skill sets of trained pilots. Also, what do you want to use UAVs for in the future? Tankers? AEW/AWACS? Cargo? Do you want to be able to go in and out of major airports under IFR? All points which may (or may not in future) mean that you need a pilot.

I'm not saying that they will always have to be operated exclusively by pilots, but at the moment I can foresee many things which may need certain skill sets of regulatory qualifications. It may be possible to create a branch and training syllabus to give people these, but until then it's probably easiest just to use pilots.

[Wader2]

dead pan, taking your question seriously the AFCO is the obvious route but [I]only when the RAF or Army start to recruit direct entrants to the job.

As an example, the RAF does not recruit (as far as I am aware) mission crew for the E3. They draw them from exiting trades and branches. The USAF however, as their needs for AWACS crews signalled a significant expansion in that field opened it up to direct entrants.

If the RAF manning balance shifted, ie we lost the spare bods that could be posted to UAS, or there are insufficient suitable internal recruits, then direct recruitment would be an option.

I would expect it to be in to the Ops Support Branch. But don't hold your breath.

[Low Ball]

With two PREDATORS down (one cat 5 and one awaiting repair) and no replacements is this requirement getting smaller? Maybe this recruiting drive is just for HERMES/WATCHKEEPER and you still need sensor operators/interpretors

Last night's BBC News and todays DT still majoring on the shortage of ISTAR capability and personnel and the fact that troops going to AFG cannot train in UK with UAVs as CAA has not cleared them for use in UK airspace. Seems to be a bit of a muddle.

LB

[L J R]

Low-Ball, The USAF have lost quite a few PREDATORS, the RAF on the other hand has only 'LOST' ONE REAPER (note name!!) -

Point and click does not work for CAS - and MQ-9 does CAS.

As far as I am aware, only qualified pilots release weapons from UAVs. Feel free to Xbox other roles if you can design the functionality and responsiveness, UNLESS all you want is to look at the same thing for days.

[newt]

Do I detect some censorship on this thread?


Could there be UAVs overhead with access to Pprune?

[fltlt]

Don't think so Newt, haven't heard a thump yet. Almost like the old F104 joke, buy a piece of land and wait.