Irian Jaya (Papua) versus PNG ...

[aseanaero]

I read with interest the threads on the latest Twin Otter crash and the never ending story of 'PNG Pls Bilong Tok Tok' starring Chimbu Chuckles and other crusty old jungle pilots et all and I got to wondering how much different is Irian jaya to PNG , better or worse ?

I'm sure some of the old hands here have flown on both sides of the border (Irian Jaya (Papua) versus PNG) so which is more dangerous considering strips and terrain or are they both much the same ?

Additionally throw in dealing with the local aviation authorities and local 'issues'.

I figure both Irian Jaya and PNG are much the same ?

[Jabawocky]

'PNG Pls Bilong Tok Tok' starring Chimbu Chuckles and other crusty old jungle pilots et allOhhhhh dear..... :uhoh:

Shall I bring this up with young (ish) Chuckles at dinner tonight! :} Poor bloke will choke on his breaky creek eye fillet! :ooh:

This will get interesting indeed.......:E

PS::O your age shows as 47.....

[aseanaero]

I forgot to give Tinpis a mention .... :ok:

Anyway back to the question , Irian vs PNG which is more difficult ?

[tail wheel]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/NiceRunway.jpg

What is wrong with PNG & Irian Jaya strips?

[Bill Frost]

I spent 1970-2 in PNG and had several field tours in late 70's. I probably accrued about 3 years plus in Irian Jaya between 1973-82. This was predominantly helicopter but often did positioning by either single or twin light a/c. In 1973 PNG to Irian was chalk and cheese. Mountains and weather the same but to all intensive purposes radio did not exist for SAR, wx checks or to fellow a/c by HF. In several cases companies would set up their own radio SAR but I suspect that risks were accepted as part of operating in a very third world country at the time. - this especially was a factor in doing long ferry trips across the more remote parts of Indonesia which equalled Irian in all but height of mountains. By early 80's Indonesian pilots were appearing as bush pilots but sadly the Asian pattern of thinking sent the least experienced as Twin Otter pilots to Irian whilst the more senior scored a relatively easy run from Jakarta to Sumatra at midday. I was out of flying by mid 80's but heard enough stories on PNG from people I still knew there to suspect the situation had almost reversed itself from fifteen years previously.
Perhaps limited and lightly administered ATC services would be a very useful way in which to offer foreign aid without raising the financial temptations that often occur

[aseanaero]

Holy cr@p Tailwheel !

I reckon you'd have to wear a bum bag to save on laundry bills the first time you tried that !

I'd be game for a take off but landing ... wow

[groper]

I figure both Irian Jaya and PNG are much the same ?
Yep, both are potentially deadly due to the nature of the flying there in rapidly changing wx at high DAs. Then there are the strip conditions.......

[the wizard of auz]

My experiance has been, six to one and half a dozen the other. I haven't had as much time in IJ but from what I have seen its been same same.

[Chimbu chuckles]

aseanaero - what month in 61 ya born?:rolleyes:

[Captain Nomad]

That photo is actually from Irian and by comparison to some of the strips I went to in PNG it looks very well maintained! :} Seems most locals now think that despite 'independance,' someone else should provide an airstrip maintenance service for their village... :hmm:

[ZEEBEE]

I guess the biggest difference is that some rascal isn't going to point a gun at you when you get out of the aircraft.

Otherwise it's much of a muchness.

[aseanaero]

Another difference I can spot is that while expat pilots in PNG share info and experiences the Indo pilots are reluctant to share this with pilots even inside their own companies and certainly not with foreigners , must be an Asian thing.

I guess the biggest difference is that some rascal isn't going to point a gun at you when you get out of the aircraft

Not yet anyway , some wag suggested white pilots should wear priest collars as a get out of trouble free card , better than guns or cops

Hey Chimbu , May '62 here , sorry mate after reading some of your posts on Tok Tok I thought you were much older , perhaps you were posessed by the spirit of an old bush pilot :ok:

[the wizard of auz]

perhaps you were possessed by the spirit of an old bush pilot
The way I hear it, he was possessed by the spirits of lots of old bush pilots.....usually at the aeroclub and more beer than spirits. :E

[Chimbu chuckles]

I am but a conduit:} - nah 48 in December aseanaero - when it will be a mere 23 years since I pitched up in PNG, a fresh faced youth, a mere slip of a lad - fck I feel old all of a sudden.:ok:

So enough of the 'crusty old jungle pilot':suspect:

[tinpis]

They (fortunately) dont have this pants wetting scenery over the PNG side

Puncak Jaya Carstensz 16,023ft

http://www.lincolnhall.net/nss-folder/glaciers/IJ.1CarstenszSIce.20x.jpg
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/9915/wm/pd75386.jpg
http://www.kualakencana.com/images/mountpeak.jpg

[denabol]

Great photos but one my kid's friends works for a climbing/trekking outfit that has been getting around the Grasberg mine gestapo and getting people up Puncak Jaya or Carstenz Pyramid for money, so they can add it to their collection of high peaks.

He had some shots showing that almost all the glaciers have vanished although he said it often snows, but then rains, and it is no longer cold enough to keep a glacier a glacier.

[aseanaero]

Thanks Tinpis ,

I was looking REAL close to make sure there wasn't another vertical runway stuck in those photos somewhere :sad:

Great photos.

[Pinky the pilot]

The way I hear it, he was possessed by the spirits of lots of old bush pilots.....usually at the aeroclub and more beer than spirits.

Hmm, can't ever remember Chuck drinking spirits at the Club Dero.:confused:
T'was always beer.

BTW aseanaero, Dunno about some of the others but I don't consider myself 'crusty.' A bit ragged around the edges perhaps...:ooh:

[OzExpat]

So, Chuck, you reckon that YOU feel old. Thanks for making me remember the day you lobbed at the old Temple that mere fckn 23 years ago! Thanks for making ME feel old! :}

[aseanaero]

Is there much cross border activity between PNG and Irian Jaya ?

It seems the PK guys stick to Irian and vice versa.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Is ok Oz - what are friends for?:E

[AxelPNG]

I flew from DJJ to Vanimo in '97 (I think) in a PX F28. Took about 15 minutes.

I get to both Vanimo & Jayapura a few times a year and have seen the odd aircraft do the crossing. Bob Bates' P2-BOB in Vanimo a while ago on its way to/from Papua and a few Indonesian MAF types there more recently as well. Sight seeing from what I can gather.

Airlink did a once weekly flight from POM (via Daru?) to Merauke for a while.

There has also been a few reports of Indonesian military aircraft flying low over Vanimo & Aitape. Hercs I believe. Of course nothing official...;)

Not a huge amount of traffic. The land crossing is quite well organised now. The road from Vanimo is very scenic.

[troppo]

flying from vanimo to jayapura you can literally see a line in the dirt where melanesia ends and south east asia begins (read development)

[AxelPNG]

I cannot agree more. It is one of the worlds most strikingly different border crossings. On one side a sleepy seaside melanesian 'village', on the other a growing asian metropolis complete with rice paddies and bullocks on the city limits.

All in the space of 3 hours driving from A to B.

[ZEEBEE]

flying from vanimo to jayapura you can literally see a line in the dirt where melanesia ends and south east asia begins (read development)

Sure can...and though Vanimo is one of the safer places in PNG (at least it was), there's a marked contrast in the level of law and order between the two places.
If your visa is about to expire, a day trip to Jayapura is the best way to renew for another month.

[Animalclub]

Airlink did a once weekly flight from POM (via Daru?) to Merauke for a while

The POM Daru/Merauke flight was started way back by Airlines of Papua New Guinea... I believe at the insistence of John Wild. I was on the first flight loaded with US dollars to pay for all "fees".

[tinpis]

On one side a sleepy seaside melanesian 'village', on the other a growing asian metropolis complete with rice paddies and bullocks on the city limits.

Exactly.
PNG should have been given to the Balinese. :}

[Chimbu chuckles]

Now if you'd said the Ghurkas I would have agreed with you - don't you like the Balinese?

[Pinky the pilot]

Now if you'd said the Ghurkas I would have agreed with you

Suppose there would'nt be much of a raskol problem then Chuckles.:ok:

[tinpis]

Ok, Ghurka security forces, Balinese transmigrasi :ok: No Kong Kong.:hmm: