Ansett/TAA Fokker Friendship

[Stationair8]

When did Ansett/TAA operate the F-27 on the centre run?

Did TAA operate the F-27 out to Ayers Rock from Alice Springs?

The reason for asking, Airfix have released a model of a TAA Friendship and the picture on the box shows it flying over Ayers Rock.

Was TAA the only airline to fly the Royal Mail or was that shared between all airlines?

[WMUOSF]

Both Ansett and TAA operated F27's Asp-Ayq.
F27 also operated Asp-Tennant creek-Katherine-Darwin and reverse. Aircraft were based at Alice.
Royal mail was contracted an both airlines held the contract at various times.

[zube]

I beg to differ. The airstrip at Ayers Rock was a gravel strip near the north side of the rock. Still just visible from the air today. F27's did not operate into there. It was Connellan Herons in those days. Accommodation was basic, with a few motels nearby, in an area used by the aboriginal community today.

The photo was probably a publicity shot.

The F27's did the Alice/ tennant creek/ tindal/ darwin run daily. Before the Indonesians took over East Timor, TAA also ran a service from Darwin to Bacau on behalf of a Portuguese airline, a couple of times per week. For Melbourne based F27 crew it was a good few days away from home. A good trip for social activities.

Going back a little earlier, circa 1970, TAA also operated the F27 from Adelaide/ Leigh Creek/ Oodnadata /Alice to connect with the northbound sectors to Darwin.

[maui]

Ah. Progressive loadsheets, nosewheel roulette, fantastic nights at the T'Lodge, days at Berry Springs, and an esky full of Barra to take home.

I'm getting all misty.

Maui

[Wod]

Me misty too.

Entered Australia 1 March 1967 on the F27 out of Baucau. First real steak for six months, and the hostess offered me a second one!

Couple of years later out of Blackall in summer time. Pilot was sitting on a box in the shade of the wing asking people what they weighed. My wife added a couple of stone and said as we boarded "Those women in front lied". I think we cleared the three strand fence because the main gear had just started to retract.

[priapism]

Zube,

I beg to differ with you. Ansett opertated twice daily F27's from ASP to AYQ, with 1 return often being cancelled due to lack of numbers.

I know because I cabin crewed plenty of them as well as quite a few "track trips" to DRW via Tennant creek and Katherine. Have the slides tucked away somewhere to prove it. We often operated them in the old "egg and lettuce sandwich" Airlines of NT livery F27.

I started in 1980. Can't tell you when they ceased, but they were bloody good 5 and 6 days trips.

[zube]

Sorry old chap. My connection was with TAA, a little earlier than your description. Ansett did have a big presence in the N.T.

Many fond memories of the track trips, even swapping "hosties" on a couple of sectors.

Geez life got sterile later on in the career.

[RHLMcG]

My track trips were in the mid-70s and they were prized by the Melbourne F27 pilot group. Always with the Adelaide girls so it tended to be one big family event for the week.

- the Travelodge in DRW gave all crews the one floor, as I recall, to minimise nuisance to the real, paying guests - the memory recalls one night involving wet towels in the doors and a spurious fire alarm going off - pity the folk inside didn't realise the chap banging on the door was senior hotel management and not the crew over the corridor.

- picnics at Berry Springs

- late night BBQs out the Chasm - provided you spun a good enough yarn

- very seedy, hungover crews on occasion

- the oft-reported close shaves from time to time

- the occasional frantic early morning runaround trying to remember just which room your bags, sheets, towels, etc., might have been relocated to unbeknownst to you whilst you were sound asleep in the arms of Bacchus the previous night

- joining in with the Jet crew parties back when crewing regularly would loose pilots and hosties for days at a time

- camel riding afternoons at the Alice

- trying to get up sufficient motivation actually to get onto the jet in ASP to go home, rather than negotiating for another week on the track.

need one go on ?


[priapism - some might observe that yours is a wonderfully appropriate codeword .. at least for some of the track trips.]

[Brian Abraham]

Associated Airlines (provider of corporate travel for BHP) operated a TAA F-27 on lease (VH-TFK) while awaiting delivery of their Gulfstream I - 1960. Could turn up anywhere.

[Stationair8]

The reason for the question, I thought Connellans airstrip stayed open until about 1978 and then new sealed strip opened.

TAA would have phased out the F-27 operations in about 1981/2?

When did Ansett replace the F-27 on the centre run with the F-28?

The legs would have been reasonably long for the F-27 and with holding fuel for Darwin would have been payload limited on the sectors.

[ZEEBEE]

The legs would have been reasonably long for the F-27 and with holding fuel for Darwin would have been payload limited on the sectors.

They were, but they generally stopped at Katherine for fuel.

[puff]

YouTube - Ansett Close Call - 1971 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjU4cWDRwKI)

Talk about a close shave ?

[Aye Ess]

Amazing,Puff. Does anyone know the full story?

[By George]

Looks like either FNO or FNQ, abit hard to see with all the action going on. FNQ is now with the Queensland Air Museum. VH-MMO was the 'NT' aeroplane in that horrible green and yellow colour, if my memory is correct. A very pretty English girl use to do the marshalling at AYE and we would hold up 'rude pictures' against the windshield to stir her up. (you could do things like that once). I also remember a very senior chap swap uniforms with one of the female cabin crew, what a sight that was. Where has all the fun gone?

[emeritus]

Can understand why that has only just surfaced. I was flying the F27 out of Mel in '71. Checked my log book and FNQ was around MEL in 71 but it appears FNO was not . If my memory serves me well, FNO was based in CNS at that time but not 100% sure.

Presume FNO/Q was on a non revenue or freighter flt as I'm sure if there were pax on board the incident could not have been kept quiet.

Expect there would have been a lot of underwear changing after that.

Wonder where the person got hold of the footage?

[mingalababya]

As a youngster, I used to love flying on the F27 as SLF. Loved sitting next to window and seeing the undercarriage being lowered, and then seeing the main wheels kiss the runway as it touches down. :)

I seem to remember always seeing a ground power unit being attached during engine start like in this photo (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ansett-Airlines-of/Fokker-F-27-200-Friendship/0493018/L/). Did the F27's not have APU's?

[Fantome]

No APU. A huge friggin' Murex plugged on the right side, belching smoke as the start load peaked. Out in the sticks, ships batteries, with care.

[Taildragger67]

Wod,

First real steak for six months, and the hostess offered me a second one!

I hope she had the decency to wait until you'd finished your steak! :}

[tinpis]

Did the F27's not have APU's?
Fairchild Hiller 27 did. None in OZ

Oooooo.... wait a minute..what was that operating out of CNS for Freeport?

[Fris B. Fairing]

FNQ was around MEL in 71 but it appears FNO was not

Although I'd prefer it to be FNQ there is a small problem. FNQ was still wearing ANSETT-ANA livery until at least May 72. It was in fact the last F.27 to be painted in the ANSETT "Delta" livery.

Rgds

[OZBUSDRIVER]

That footage is FSX or FS9....it ain't real.

Back to reality...F27 was pretty cool for SLF...just loved those oval windows that allowed you to actually get a view near straight below you. Good touring machine for that reason..who was it that used to run inland tours..Bill Peach wasn't it?

[Animalclub]

It was in the early 70's when TN started to operate ASP CNS for tour groups (subsequently a regular service) 'cos Connellan wouldn't guarantee the connection at Mt Isa to Bush Pilots.
Most of the tourist really enjoyed the Heron flights as, I understand, the pilots were very "interesting". Now, I wonder what that meant? Maybe they didn't mind the overnight at ISA!!

[WMUOSF]

Yes. Bill Peach Aircruising Australia:)

[A. Le Rhone]

British Pathe - AVIATION DISPLAY IN AUSTRALIA (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=70898)

[Givelda]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2617/3928477974_fbda1a44ef.jpg

Probably not of too much interest to anyone other than ex TAA F27 F/Os, but Maui mentioned "Progressive Loadsheets" - a love/hate (probably mostly hate) peice of paperwork for the F/Os on the western runs.
This is the top "half" of one - I coudn't post the whole darn thing because of it's size. The idea was to fill this up at each place we dropped into and by adding and subtracting what or who got on or off you had a weight to accurately (you hope) prepare your Loadsheet. If I remember correctly, the idea was to progress across and down the page to get to the bottom right hand corner with "0". If you didn't, it mean't that you screwed up somewhere along the way and had something/someone on a leg which/who was not supposed to be there!!! - and then you had to go back and see if you could find the error. Many "one bar F/O's" on the western runs were obliged to spend almost the entire flight in the flight deck, both in flight and on the ground trying to tame this "beast" - usually by the time you got your second stripe you became an expert and could get off with the skipper to have a natter with the "girls", refueler or the "locals".
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3928580710_b2723c68c7.jpg
Julia Creek 1981 as we have a chat with the "locals" and not even a thought of "Precision Timing Scheduling" - to enable an on-time departure - it's still Tuesday isn't it ??? -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2536/3928580742_9e926ca221.jpg

Birdsville on the way to "the Alice" - we almost ended up over nighting here because a certain FO forget to switch the battery off whilst "sightseeing" and the ensuing engine start was very slow and required judicious use of HP Cock metering to keep within the 930C start limit.

[mingalababya]

Thanks for sharing that Givelda. More stories please from former F-27 drivers! :ok: I'll always have a soft spot for them, albeit, from a SLF perspective. The last time I flew on one was in 1999 from Bali to Lombok on Merpati (it's Merpati and I'll die if I want to ;) )

On the operational side of things, would the F-27 be equivalent today's Dash 8-300 in terms of weight, performance and pax capacity?

[185skywagon]

Givelda,
I think that is Windorah in the first photo. They have a new terminal building there now.
The old building use to have a plaque on it saying "Terminal Building, it should die soon".

Some of Bub's humour. :p

185

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3928580710_b2723c68c7.jpg

[Givelda]

I'm pretty sure it's not Windorah (it was a long time ago though and my memory is......). I don't recall that TAA operated F27's there but it could be at one of the other towns in western QLD. I can remember going to Quilpie a few times which is kind of nearby - and on one or two occasions having to resort to a square search to find the place as it had no aids (before that word meant something else) and long before GPS days.
I have to head of to work for a few days so I will check back through my log books and see if I can see a mention of Windorah when I get back.

[Poodles in flight]

All misty about the F-27 myself . First ever flight was in an F-27 ( BIA to the Channel Islands in the UK) and it was a TAA F-27 that carried my family from Melbourne to Wynyard when we emigrated in 1978 ( it was such a big event in Tassie in those days our phot was in the paper).

Might have to track down the afforementioned Airfix kit .

The Pax windows were Fantastic and I loved to sit near the gear too.

[Dog One]

Last F27 left flying in Oz (VH-EWP) was flown from Adelaide to essendon for storage last week.

[Exaviator]

Can't remember the actual dates or the number of stops as I don't have my logbook with me at time of writing, but in the early sixties as a MEL based TAA F27 F/O I operated several Adelaide - Darwin multi sector flights.

Following an overnight Darwin we then did a Darwin - Dili (Timor) - Darwin, and another overnight before returning to Adelaide via the same northbound sectors.

The reward for this arduous three days was a night stop at the Pier Hotel in ADL and pax home to Melbourne on the following morning's Electra flight, usually lugging a couple of cases of Yalumba wines that had been delivered to the ADL crew room whilst we were up north. Those were the days ! :ok:

[chainsaw]

By George,

FNO it is.

OZBUSDRIVER's assertion that it's not real may need some more explanation I think. Look at the left wingtip 'movement' when it gets affected by the passing aircraft. Looks pretty real to me.

Anyway, that aside.........

I also remember a very senior chap swap uniforms with one of the female cabin crew, what a sight that was. Where has all the fun gone?

Isn't that allowed any more in your present 'gig' George? :}

[zlin77]

Flew the F27 for Eeenie-Weenies, seem to have hundreds of SYD-PMQ-TRE-SYD, SYD-TMW-ARM-SYD & SYD-GFN-KMP-SYD in the logbook, I believe Australia's first hi-jacking event took place on an F27 in ASP, recollect the offender was shot and killed on the tarmac there, early seventies?

[Exaviator]

I believe Australia's first hi-jacking event took place on an F27 in ASP, recollect the offender was shot and killed on the tarmac there, early seventies?

No so, the first recorded was early sixties on a TAA Electra - was resolved by one of the crew concealing the fire axe under his uniform then sneaking up behind the would be hi-jacker and bashing him on the head with it. In the mean time the F/O who fancied himself as a karate exponent was trying to disable the fellow with a few well placed karate chops nearly lost a finger to the fire axe.

After that time all Australian aircraft were fitted with a baton and two pair of police hand cuffs, which were kept in a lock wired and sealed box on the flight deck. :ok:

[Led Zep]

Not allowed to do that these days, book says bolt the door and let the poor girls down the back deal with it. :bored:

[Aye Ess]

Then there is the famous incident of East West F27 VH-EWL that hit a microburst on approach to Bathurst May 1974. Ended up sliding along on its belly in a paddock near the airport. No one injured but aircraft written off......the end of a beautiful friendship.

[frigatebird]

Regarding that U Tube clip. Someone in the Baron knew where the other aircraft was - the camera was held steady through it all. Maybe it was set up and went wrong. Looks like the Co' ie saw the the semi-stationary closing object at the last moment, -or realised the angles were bad..

[puff]

Report of the accident in Bathurst is here

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1974/aair/pdf/197401441.pdf

[Howabout]

I remember a story that one of the DN FS guys related regarding the DN/AS F27 run that TN used to do, which would be around 1980.

Apparently it was the Captain's birthday and at Dark o'clock, when the F/O was doing the mandatory radio checks, the request went in to DN ground to wish the Captain 'Happy Birthday' on taxi. The name may have been Brian, but I can't remember for sure.

Anyway, the conversation went something like ' Darwin Ground TNQ ready to taxi.'

'TNQ, DN Ground, Happy Birthday Brian (if that was the name), clear to taxi runway 11 etc.'

DN Tower, TNQ ready'

'TNQ, DN Tower, Happy Birthday Brian, clear for take-off etc.

Change to arrivals: 'TNQ, Darwin Control, Happy Birthday Brian.'

And so it went all the way south, through DN FS, Katherine FS, Tennant FS and Alice FS.

Allegedly, the tower guy in Alice said 'Happy Birthday Brian, clear to land.' On ground, nothing was said, apart from callsign acknowledgement, as the aircraft taxied in - till the last moment.

Just before they shut it down, the guy on ground said 'And, oh, by the way, Happy Birthday Brian.'

Them was the days.

[Spaz Modic]

Wonder what happened to the Berry Springs Emergency Kit.:confused:

[donderwolkje]

Now there was the best ever use of a large plastic rubbish bin!
You'd get arrested and the key thrown away, trying the same caper in todays P.C. climate.
Regards.....

[B772]

In addition to the write off's of EWL at Bathurst and FNH at Launceston the most tragic F27 loss in Australia was TFB; the first TAA F27-100 off Mackay on 10 June 1960 with the loss of all 29 on board.

[B772]

Did anyone get to operate the F27 to an interesting strip such as the paddock strip at R M Ansett's farm in the Riverina.

[peuce]

I'm gunna get a little bit weird here, but ....

Was watching a doco on robots last night and an interesting point was made. We humans are attracted to any machine that looks, no matter how obscurely, like a face ... that is, maybe some eyes and a mouth and eyebrows.

I've always thought the F27 had a "bit of a face about it" ... albeit, perhaps a dog's. Maybe that's why we are attracted to some aircraft (eg F27) and not others (eg A380)??

Anyway, got to go now ... or I'll be late for my therapy appointment!:O

[emeritus]

RE the U Tube footage....

Recently caught up with a friend I shared a flat with at that time. He worked in the PR dept at AN. Ran it past him and was surprised to be told that he was on board the light twin at the time of the incident.

Apparently the Co was doing a series of air to air shots of all the fleet types.

Was hushed up afterwards. Presume the Co picked up the laundry bills!.

Reasonable to assume the a/c was being flown by a supervisory pilot... being a non revenue flt.

Emeritus ( non supervisory pilot at the time ! ):E:E

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

How did the centre run Fokker get to Adelaide from Melbourne, a ferry flight or positioned via a scheduled flight?

[Dark Knight]

Ah! the load-sheet plus the rotten progressive load-sheet; them's were the days Givelda.

However, BNE F/Os learnt very rapidly particularly flying with Capt. Huey Yorston. On the rare occasions Huey relented and gave the F/O a leg when doing the progressive load-sheet in flight, one would suddenly find Huey hand flying the beast. End of F/Os leg.

Not to be outdone we learnt to complete the load-sheet and progressive on the ground, talk to the refueller, girls and/or Locals and then when Huey relented, gave you the leg you hand flew it the whole way preventing from getting his hands upon it. He would attempt to distract you to get you to take you hands off but overall, we were too smart for him and would not let go. Improved your flying ability no end! (we also learnt ensuring the progressive added up left to right plus top to bottom was `clerks' work leaving this to them -never questioned at all)

Flew the F-27 the same as he used to fly Spitfires and V2+20 rotation out of Charters Towers was normal; how the F-27 fleet fuselages were not bent in the middle is testament to Fokker.

Great aircraft, great flying around Queensland and the Territory where the times had by all were terrific; the layovers legends; The Allen Hotel, Townsville plus the Red lion Motel in Cairns.

Those were the days!


ps>> Charlie: usually through Mt Gambier to do the Center run.

[john_tullamarine]

R M Ansett's farm in the Riverina.

Irregularly came up. Did one with the then F27 boss (who also had done my endorsement when I joined AN) - TW. RM just relaxed in the back seat and, as I recall, a very easy flight out and back.

the load-sheet plus the rotten progressive load-sheet

Easier setup in AN, the F/O just ran the normal sheet leg to leg as required. Mostly done during some convenient minute or two on descent. Then, again, trimsheets are amongst my stock in trade engineering stuff so I had an advantage. Sometimes still wish I had taken up an F27 command rather than wait for the jet ... track trips were the bee's knees.

[PLovett]

In Tennant Creek there is a shop, or at least there was when I was there 2008, and the owner had a large pin board with cuttings from the local rag concerning aircraft that had visited. There was one cutting with a photo of, I think, 4 x F27s on the tarmac; TAA, Ansett, BPA and I can't recall the fourth, maybe Connair but not sure.

[Bedder believeit]

I might be a little bit off track here but I went to PNG as a 4 year old in Madang. As a primary school kid I had many a bike ride out to Madang airport to see QANTAS DC3's and Gibbes Sepik Airways JU52 heading up to the highlands to help build towns like Goroka and Mount Hagen, Minj, Banz etc. Off to Qld boarding school in 1961...faaaarq. Anyway aviation was in my blood and I still have strong memories of DC4, Super Constellation courtesy of QANTAS and then DC 6 and Electra flights (TAA and ANSETT ANA) between Port Moresby/Lae and Oz. My first job (age 17) was with Burns Phillp in Kavieng as the TAA AGENT. We used to get 4 DC 3's a week if I recall which I would meet and do the load sheet etc. After a few months of agent I got a job with TAA in Goroka, which brings me to F 27 Friendships. The friendlies started flying into Goroka around mid 1967 if my memory serves correctly. It was mainly TFK and TFL. WE still got lots of DC 3's namely SBA, SBI, SBO and SBU were fitted out as pax aircraft and the rest of the Sunbird '3's were cargo/side saddle birds. So the moral of this story is that the Fokkers were a big leap forward in the New Guinea that I was brought up in.

[Captain Dart]

Ahh, the 'Mouse'!

The fastest slow aeroplane I ever flew.

[Capn Bloggs]

Go the Fokker!

http://s26.postimg.org/9m38r52vd/19970308_000001_1000.jpg

[gerry111]

Ah, those great days of noisy RPTs! So a civvie flight from Williamtown to Adelaide would either be a Masling Bandit to Sydney or AN F27. Then a DC-9 or B727 to Adelaide.