Campaign to Stop Stupid Calls on 121.5

[BeerBaron]

As a professional pilot, I'd like to sponsor a campaign to stop these stupid and childish calls on 121.5 whenever someone makes an accidental broadcast. I'd like every pilot on these boards to spread the word when they are flying to their other crew members.

Example: If someone makes an accidental broadcast, and no-one responds, they usually work it out themselves pretty quickly. If they make a second call, by all means let them know - once! Only one person needs to say something, not, twenty.

Example: The other day in Brisbane, a US callsign made the following broadcast on 121.5: "This is xxxx on guard, radio check for Amberley Ground". It was obvious that this was a deliberate call on 121.5, and it did not require anybody to pipe up. What eventuated was embarrassing: about twenty people all chimed in on 121.5 telling him he was broadcasting on guard. Of course he was, he even said it was a radio check. Due to the congestion on 121.5, he had to make a second radio check, as no doubt Amberley Ground could not get through on 121.5 the first time.

The use of 121.5 is for emergency calls only. These stupid calls are often heard well beyond the area where the first call is made. It is so bad that some operators make it a requirement to stop listening out on 121.5 during approach and landing, precisely the time when monitoring 121.5 could be most important to them.

So let us leave the mistakes on 121.5 alone, and stay quiet; they'll work it out themselves. In the rare case that a second mistaken transmission is made, then let only one person respond. Let us leave this frequency free for emergency calls.

[Capt Fathom]

You're on the wrong frequency Baron. Try 121.5!

[Capn Bloggs]

ABC (on 121.5): Skywest Ops, ABC!

DEF (on 121.5): You're on guard!

GHI (on 121.5): So are you. :}

Leave them alone for the first call; we all make mistakes. But when they do it again...hammer 'em!!:}

[Cat Fived]

You're on Guard!

[maverick22]

Totally agree Baron:ok:

Heard that same check call on guard the other day and felt very frustrated for the poor bloke making the call.

I think the guard police were getting a bit carried away that day!

[BeerBaron]

Why has this been moved? It's not general aviation, and it's not a question.

It's an attempt to improve the professionalism of our pilots - the culprits in particular being those flying for the airlines.

It's also an attempt to see if this forum is capable of changing for the better the practice of professional pilots - rather than just a whinge fest.

It's up to all of us as professionals to give a damn.

[remoak]

It is so bad that some operators make it a requirement to stop listening out on 121.5 during approach and landing, precisely the time when monitoring 121.5 could be most important to them.

I'm curious to know why a bit of radio chatter during approach and landing is an issue, and even more curious as to why a distress call on 121.5 could possibly be important to an approaching or landing aircraft...

[Capn Bloggs]

Remoak,
I'm curious to know why a bit of radio chatter during approach and landing is an issue, and even more curious as to why a distress call on 121.5 could possibly be important to an approaching or landing aircraft...
I don't know where you operate, but here 121.5 is treated like a phone, especially by one operator who will remain nameless. There would be nothing worse than hearing these Gen Yers rabbiting on about their ride and wind when you were in the middle of a complex arrival.

Emergencies fair enough, but it shouldn't be used as your own squadron common.

[remoak]

I don't know where you operate

London, Paris, Amsterdam and Dublin mostly. Radio traffic is non-stop. I imagine it's no different around the major Aussie airports.

I agree that using 121.5 for mindless chatter is undesirable (we use 123.45 for that in Europe, technically illegal but harmless), but saying that it is somehow dangerous, or that an aircraft on approach has a vital interest in distress traffic that is not within miles of them, is stretching the point a little.

You should hear the crap that fills the airwaves on oceanic routes... worse than 121.5.

[BeerBaron]

Remoak, listening on 121.5 on approach is very important - it might be the only way that ATC can call you if you screw up a frequency change, or suffer an undetected radio failure. My favourite radio call on 121.5 while on approach/departure was the warnings by the USS Vincennes before they shot down the Iranian Airbus. Now that is one call you wouldn't want to miss!

Also, I've seen as a result of this policy crew forgetting to listen out on 121.5 at all during a flight, as they don't select it on departure and forget to set it up at top of climb.

[Kulwin Park]

forgive my ignorance (if any) ... but why do you use the term "ON GUARD" ??
I've never heard that term for the frequency :ooh:

[C-change]

Does anyone know why the US acft was calling AMB ground on 121.5 ?

I only ask this as Military ATC don't monitor 121.5, only 243.0 is monitored.

It can be dialled up on VHF emergency radio if required or pre-arranged. Maybe that is what happened.

[Nose wheel first]

If there's one thing that drives me nuts it's people talking crap on the airwaves.

Not so bad where I fly now but the area where I used to fly it was non-stop. On CTAF, "numbers", 121.5 and any other freq people dreamed up that they thought would be "discrete" but usually wasn't. Not only would there be protracted, rediculous radio calls but we'd hear all about the pub last night, the pub tonight, the pretty boats on the water below, the hot passengers in the back etc etc.

FFS:mad::mad::mad: if people have time to talk rubbish on the radio they have time to fly the aircraft properly.:ugh::ugh:

I know, there will be people who disagree with this.

I have no problem with people discussing operational/ important stuff but when it becomes a social network it's time to shut up. Use the phone or e-mail after your flight. I have lost count of the number of times I haven't been able to make calls because some goose with nothing better to do is chatting on freq.

End of rant :)

[remoak]

listening on 121.5 on approach is very important - it might be the only way that ATC can call you if you screw up a frequency change, or suffer an undetected radio failure.

Not really. There are well-established procedures in place for comms failures, and if you suffer one, ATC will automatically keep other traffic clear of you and give you priority. Same applies if you screw up a frequency change, although I can't imagine very many IFR aircraft these days don't have instant reversion to the previous frequency.

More to the point, if you can't manage to fly an approach safely with a bit of chatter on the radio, you shouldn't be flying IFR at all.

I have worked for 7 European airlines over a 20 year period, and not one of them included monitoring 121.5 as an SOP. There might be some point to it when traversing large areas of wilderness in Oz, but not in terminal areas.

I suppose if you happen to be flying an aircraft in a tense and dangerous part of the world, with warships on full battle alert nearby, there might be some point... but then, how many airliners have been destroyed in this way around Australia?

Why don't you just go around to the premises of the worst offender and settle it like men? :}

[the wizard of auz]

FFS if people have time to talk rubbish on the radio they have time to fly the aircraft properly.

If you have trouble doing both at the same time, possibly you should research another line of work.
Why should one not be able to discuss hotties in the back with other folk on the radio?. that what a Discrete frequency is for. The radio is for communication between two or more parties, and I am pretty sure it is not for piloting duties only. Dude, get a grip (or loosen it a little).

[C-change]

Kulwin Park asked,

but why do you use the term "ON GUARD" ??



Kulwin, it's a monitored (or guarded ) frequency. If you need help the idea is that someone is always listening and will provide assistance. The older style ELT's, epirb, ELT's etc that worked on 121.5 (no longer monitored by Aussar) would also be picked up by passing aircraft and satelites as well as civil ATC. Aircraft will still recieve a 121.5 beacon if its set off. Thats why boaties have to be careful when getting rid of older ELT's. Military acft still montior 243.0 (some new acft don't have UHF) as does Mil ATC.

The point of transmitting "on guard" is to make others aware that you are deliberately using the guarded frequency. Its mean't to stop others jumping in and saying "hey your on the wrong freq" that beer baron mentioned in the first post.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re;
"it might be the only way that ATC can call you if you screw up a frequency change, or suffer an undetected radio failure."

Unless things have changed,
AsA do not have the 121.5 facility avbl for Controllers / Flight Watch staff to use...

The ONLY time I ever had the facility available was for a 'combined forces' military exercise in Derby - 'Pitch Black' or 'Kangaroo', or one of 'those' when the FSU had a portable 'Bayside' VHF loaned to us for use 'if required' to monitor the 'red' or 'blue' forces doing 'funny' night ops.....

And, it actually got used.....once.....to check that, following a 'spurious' call, that the acft in question was 'safe'.

Cheers:ok:

[powerstall]

A few days ago, was monitoring 121.5 and some goody two shoes, accidentally made a PA on 121.5. :ok:

[rmcdonal]

AsA do not have the 121.5 facility avbl for Controllers / Flight Watch staff to use...

They normaly call a nearby aricraft to try and raise you on 121.5 and tell you your new frequency. :ok:

[Wally Mk2]

This subject has been brought up before & by myself as well.

You would never be able to stop accidental comms on 121.5 we are all human & finger trouble has been known to take a plane directly to the crash site as well as incorrect R/T's.

What really shows a total lack of discipline at airline level ( I say Airline level or similar as most bug smashers wouldn't monitor 121.5) is the response one often hears from somebody accidentally using 121.5. Like for Eg ...................LT base this is XXX ..........a quick response.....'go ahead', then the poor chap or chapette proceeds to spill their guts on 121.5 much to the amuzment of others. These are the bozos/morons that need kick up the rear end!!!

Perhaps a different dedicated way of transmitting on 121.5 is the answer, much like a deliberate action event where as in it can't be done unless it's a totally different from day to day TX's procedures. Like a TX button not associated with ATC TX's

I know I often turn off the 2nd comm whilst in the terminal area as I might miss an important TX from ATC which does happen.

As for general chit chat Eg ride reports etc, (one guy asked anothet Co A/C to keep an eye out for a lost torch from a few days ago with numerous responses back & forth,all done on 121.5 !!!!) well you can imagine the slack environment in the cockpit when this sort of poor airmanship is wantingly displayed.

Bring back the strap at school, the school system has gone to pot!!!:}


Wmk2

[nohumbug]

It always ****s me how quickly the "guard police" spring into action and pounce onto the poor sod who may have ...heaven forbid..transmitted accidently on 121.5. Sure ..if they repeat the error a few times , then MAYBE a polite pointer in the right direction ...but there seems to be no shortage of 121.5 do gooders just itching to put things right!!!, just so they can get home to the wifey and brag " hey there was someone who transmitted accidently on 121.5..BUT DONT WORRY !!! I SORTED HIM OUT!!!




the best response i have heard to a "YOURE ON GAURD!!! advisory was ..."SO ARE YOU!!" :E

[Keg]

Strewth we can be precious about all of this.

If I accidentally transmit on guard then I hope someone gives me a quick heads up so that I can change frequencies straight away. I'd much prefer this than wasting a minute listening out, re-transmitting and doing this two or three times before someone lets me know. It's not that friggin complex is it? It's not that big a deal for someone to tell me after the first time is it?

To be blunt, those that get express dismay about the 'guard police' are just as big a dills as those who say 'go ahead' to the original transmission. :ugh:

Cut out the idle chit chat by all means but let's not make this more complex than it has to be. If someone's got it wrong, 'someone else' will tell them. Given that none of us have any idea of who else is listening in the odds are there will be a few people telling the bloke/blokette that they're on the wrong frequency.

I obviously haven't been flying enough recently because I'm buggered if I can see what all the angst is about! Just chillax! (I hope I used angst in the right context or a certain Qrewroomer is going to be on to me! :ok: ).

[Capn Bloggs]

Keg, wash your mouth out. Anybody who transmits twice on 121.5 by mistake deserves to be growled-at by the guard police. :}

[Hempy]

A few days ago, was monitoring 121.5 and some goody two shoes, accidentally made a PA on 121.5. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Better than on the control frequency ;)

[QF411]

That means they would have given their full name over guard...:}

[grrowler]

It's not that friggin complex is it?
Not as complex as checking your frequency before transmitting by the sound of it:}:ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

accidentally made a PA on 121.5.
No thanks to his offsider, who would have heard the PA start on 121.5 but didn't do anything about it...

[maverick22]

Keg,

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have someone remind you when you've had a bit of finger trouble and transmitted on the wrong frequency (god knows how many times I've done it), but if you'd have heard the carrying on that happened the other day you would see why this thread was started. The pilot clearly stated that he was 'on guard' and was making a check call to Amberly Ground. This was then proceeded by every man and his dog telling the poor bloke he was 'on guard', and he couldn't get a word in edgeways. Not very professional at all by those involved, and very frustrating for the pilot concerned and Amberly Ground.

[nohumbug]

Have to disagree with you Keg. :)

We all know that the combination of fatigue and talking to centre, the pax, the cabincrew , company and the person sitting next to you, you are always going to slip up at least once in your career. I know every time i transmit and get no response the very first thing I check is the comms, before i repeat the call.

I dont need everyone , acting like contestants on sale of the century racing to be the first guard hero, to the save the day. :}

[Keg]

Sure Mav. I get the original intent of the thread. There is indeed quite a lot of carry on WRT guard. So are we agreed on these principles.

1. Check freq before transmitting.
2. If you stuffed up point 1 then it's acceptable for someone else (and probably multiple people at the same time given that no one knows who else is around) to let you know.
3. Those who say 'go ahead' to the company call on guard should be summarily shot.

No need to get agro at the 'guard police' enacting point 2 as nohumbug and a couple of others suggest.

Bloggs, couldn't agree more. If it's the bloke or blokette beside me then it's me getting cranky at them (short fuse now that I'm old!).

Anyway, slow news day obviously! :ok:

[Go West]

Oh please.

Get a life. A little bit of humour to break up a mostly boring day, well who cares.

I have been busted by the guard police, did it today, had a laugh, moved on. Did planes crash? No. Earth stop spinning? No. Everyone have a laugh at my expense? Yep. As did I.

More important things to talk about. Rostering, T&C, Jump Seat blah blah blah

[j3pipercub]

I must say I too got busted on guard today, was beautifully annunciated, only for someone to come back and say "....aaaaaaand you're on guard" A polite, "......awwww thanks" and I was on my way. Partly due to chatting to mates on numbers then switching back to 121.5 without transferring tx to the other comm. No biggie.

Long Live the guard police

j3

[chainsaw]

Moderators,

Perhaps this thread could be (re)-named 'Campaign to Stop Stupid Threads'?

As Go West's correctly identified:

[There's] More important things to talk about... blah blah blah

So mods, can we perhaps get some bloody PERSPECTIVE for Chrissakes (please???), and stop wasting PPRuNe bandwith with totally trivial and meaningless BULL**** threads like this?

Request close this thread! :ugh:

[Cravenmorehead]

If this is a stupid thread then why have we had so many responses.
I hate idle chit chat on guard; use numbers or 128.95/126.35, or as NJS does have a private wally frequency.

[KaptinZZ]

I hven't been to PPRuNe or back to Oz fora few years, but prior to leaving, QF pilots used 121.5 as their own chat frequency, and continued chatting about aptterns, pay, layovers, etc., even when told of their intentional error.

I suppose if you're a God of the Sky, then that's acceptable, and I'm not envious of Qf pilots, believe me..

[blow.n.gasket]

Kapt ZZ
if you stop playing with it it will get better.
PS you're on guard.

[YoDawg]

On a MIL comm set, a function allows a second freq to be monitored (RECEIVE ONLY) in addition to the active transmit/receive frequency. This function is called Guard. You can guard any frequency you want to besides just 121.5 - eg company or a VOLMET or ATIS freq.

They call it guard for obvious reasons because it's usually left on 121.5/243.

Guard is not the name of 121.5 or any other frequency despite the prodigious use of the term by civvy pilots. The same people who aren't disciplined enough to resist the temptation to repeat "You're on guard" ad nauseum because they think it's funny appear to be the same ones who are clueless about the term "guard" itself.

If some people need a good reason to keep their traps shut on 121.5 or why this is a good subject, they can keep in mind the tower will transmit direct to an aircraft on this 121.5 during a loss of comm as will APP and other ATS agencies.

A lot of pros keep 121.5 selected on COMM 2/R for this reason and really grind their teeth when listening to idiots kicking off as they're on final.

[KaptinZZ]

YoDawg, thanks for putting the non military pilots right on their stupid habit of saying "You're on guard". They obviously didn't know or understand.

And blowngasket, I knew there was a reason I dropped off Prune a while back, and it's tossers like you.

[chewi]

NOHUMBUG has hit the nail right on the head, I swear there are people out there with their fingers permanently glued to the button just waiting to call "ON GUARD" my guess "CADETS"