Expatriate Pilots in Nigeria...

[BALEWA]

The current influx of foreign pilots in the Nigerian Aviation industry has increased tremenduosly. Just a listen on domestic flights in Nigeria airspace today, the chatter on our radios is no different from a regional flight in Europe!

Is our aviation industry on a gradual steady growth in this part of the world and is the influx ot Expatriate Pilots in our industry a good thing.
Or is it a fact that some of our employers prefer foreigners, who work for a short time, demand for higher pay and also cost the airlines here in Lagos 5 times the pay of a Nigerian Captain just to maintain their upkeep so they can just acquire experience and leave to work for other companies!!!

The fact is I have noticed this trend in our major airlines and feel that this kind of expenses for a carrier in Nigeria with the current state of affairs in the worlds economy is not going to do much good to our industry.

Are the locals working at bringing in more local pilots and should we not be looking at a situation were foreign captains are only here to maintain our airlines operational by providing captains, while their first officers, or local captains, clocked up enough hours to qualify for their commands.

Indian pilots and the Indian DGCA, have said they want all foreign contract pilots out of the country by next year.
The Japanese pilots had their long time American contract pilots terminated earlier this year.
Singapore Airlines have gotten rid of as many foreign pilots as they have been able to. Recently Moroccan pilots are now doing what they can to nationalise their own airline.

Balewa

[emirmorocan]

Only an observation about Royal Air Maroc: There are not expat pilots flying there, only those pay to fly from Eaglejet.
They want nationalise Atlas blue and RAM express but for pilots provided by national school, not any moroccan pilot.

[Metro man]

Expat pilots are there to fill a gap which can't be filled by locals, either temporarily or permanently. Yes they do cost more to employ because the expenses involved in being an expat are usually higher than being a local, the living and working environment may not be as attractive as home and they probably want to save some money out of the deal or why bother ?

Singapore Airlines uses expats because there aren't enough local pilots, and the expats can easily be got rid of during downturns or employed during upturns thereby keeping crew numbers as required.

India will still need expats once things pick up again. A 200 hour wonder is still years away from being able to replace a 6000 hour captain.

With Nigerias less than outstanding air safety record, having expats employed in training, or flying sophisticated new types may be an insurance requirement ?

Of course you could ban Nigerians from being expats themselves, forcing them to only fly for Nigerian companies. Once they all return home problem solved.

And don't you think about flying for a foreign company either, incase some local thinks you are stealing his job.:rolleyes:

[Habari]

Couldn't agree more with your comments Metro man, but why stop with pilots.
Kick out all of the expats from Nigeria and force all the Nigerians working abroad to return home and fill the positions vacated by the expats. That should satisfy the majority of the Nigerians who post on this website!!
If the Nigerians working abroad were made to feel as unwelcome as expats in Nigeria, they might even return home voluntarily.

[coltrane]

the reason for all the expats in nigeria? well that's not so hard is it... one word: SAFETY

[dejidip]

Yeah right' NIGERIANS and NIGERIA is UNSAFE without EXPATS At least thats what some n..bskull believes:confused::=

[flareout BC]

But I think a formal,well structured and objective plan{by NCAA of course},to reserve,for instance,entry or low-hour positions for locals would be appreciated by my brother Balewa.
Or has the generation which more-or-less wasted as Nigeria Airways wet-leased four,and at times six B737s from GPA over a five year period forgotten what happened so soon?Some 47 indigenes trained at Zaria,then a world-class flying school,were sacked by NA for resisting the silly policy.And listen,gentlemen,those fellas were good.
We all know of certain companies which never ever employ locals to certain positions(but then,isn't this territory of our immigration authorities,never mind NCAA?)In 1998,a Kabo Air 1-11 captain,also a graduate of an American university, showed me an ad for foreign pilots in a copy of Flight magazine,revealing the names of several colleagues who were qualified for the post.I still remember the pain he felt.
Nevertheless,foreign pilots should be welcome for a role which contributes to the overall well-being of the industry,for they could offer rewards to the aerial component of our society.But I don't think places for them if qualified locals go without should be encouraged.Like was pointed out elsewhere in this thread,that's what Japan and India and Morocco do.

[Old King Coal]

There's nothing wrong with Nigerian pilots (I've flown with many very good ones! ).... there is however, imho, something wrong with the oversight and commitment to 'training', at all levels, departments, and ranks, by various airlines in Nigeria.... though I should add a rider that this is not a problem entirely peculiar to Nigeria.

People generally want to do a good job but (in a lot of Africa, and elsewhere) they are hamstrung by out-of-date practices, lack of training and lack of on-going support.

The blame for this lays at the top, not on the troops.

[flareout BC]

....yeah, brath, that's spot on ! ! !

[MungoP]

Yeah right' NIGERIANS and NIGERIA is UNSAFE without EXPATS At least thats what some n..bskull believes

Like it or not you can believe it... Until you get into the sim with these guys you would not believe how bad they can be... dangerous doesn't begin to cover it... It's not uncommon for them to walk out mid training with comments about it being too hard and shouldn't be asked of them... many go home with nothing more than a letter of attendance and typically they need to be taught basic IR skills... I could go on but ... :ugh:
Why this should be I don't pretend top know... maybe something to do with the poor selection process... Maybe daddy is in some ministry or other...

[BALEWA]

Nigerian pilots are bad and dangerous and all that......what else is there to say, even calling us "these guys" ooh well at least were getting somewhere with the topic....

The last thing I would like us to do here is compare notes on who is more dangerous than the other, which I find absolutely useless. I never called expat pilots anything other than Pilots and asked a simple question.

With the current situation in Lagos and the small growth in our industry which we are currently experiencing in Nigeria that is, suffice to say, is providing some sort of employment for Expats whom I believe with the current trend elsewhere in the world have nothing else to lean on but fly with us here in Naija I believe such statements and insults should be avoided. :=

I think I am in a position to believe that such comments are untrue and very badly taken too....

Balewa

[chuks]

Don't ask the question! Or did you really expect a lot of expats to pop up and say, "Oh yes! I am there but to no real purpose. I just want to take the bread out of the mouth of some deserving local pilot!" Get real. You know what we are like, black and white, selfish bastards to a man, forced to make our way in this hard, cold world we call "aviation," just because it beats working for a living.

If you are really looking for it, I think you know where to find sympathy, yes?

You cannot have a country that is ranked so low for corruption (second or third-worst, last time I checked) and expect its aviation scene to smell of roses, can you? That isn't down to the lack of ability on the part of most Nigerian pilots, just that your aviation scene suffers in the same way that your whole country does.

Just to write of aviation in general, the public pay attention to the disasters, not to the way we usually get it right 999 times out of a thousand. In the same way we tend to overlook the highly capable Nigerians, since pilots are supposed to be highly capable anyway, and just remember the few who really never should have been let near an aircraft. (I know I have a few of those burnt into what is left of my brain after the Gulder had done its work.)

Too, many of the best have voted with their feet and left Nigeria to work abroad. I can name about ten of them just off the top of my head.

I spent a long time in Nigeria and a short time in Algeria. I can tell you, hand on heart, that Algeria was like a paid vacation compared to Nigeria. Why that should be, I leave it to you to guess.

[baba70]

Old King Coal, could not have said it any better:ok:

[ZAZOO]

Balewa!!! Whats this all about.

Left a pm for u dear boy, are u going to be there on thursday.

[asacrj]

You cannot have a country that is ranked so low for corruption (second or third-worst, last time I checked) and expect its aviation scene to smell of roses, can you? That isn't down to the lack of ability on the part of most Nigerian pilots, just that your aviation scene suffers in the same way that your whole country does.


:confused: then I wonder why so expatriate pilots look for employment overthere????

[Metro man]

then I wonder why so expatriate pilots look for employment overthere????

Have a look at the back pages of Flight International, not alot of jobs around at the moment are there ? Bills haven't stopped coming in though.

With Nigeria's dismal air safety record, do you think any leasing company is going to hand over expensive aircraft without being VERY careful as to who will be flying them ? Do you think insurance companies will provide multi million dollar coverage at affordable premiums ?

Nigerian pilots are bad and dangerous and all that......what else is there to say, even calling us "these guys" ooh well at least were getting somewhere with the topic....

I would be happy with a Nigerian pilot flying me, provided it was in a competent airline in a country with a competent civil aviation authority. If someone has earnt a command at eg British Airways then he is of a high standard.

However Nigerians have proven conclusively that they are unable to run a safe system in their own country by themselves. In this they are not alone, I fly with Indonesian expat captains quite happily, but no way will I fly on an Indonesian airline.

[chuks]

Well, it could have had something to do with being paid rather well... there is that.

As one ages it can have to do with being some wrinkly old pisswreck yet being able to snap one's fingers and have beautiful young girls do your perverted bidding, plus those little blue pills are available off-prescription.

Some of us are crazy enough to enjoy that buzz of life in an edgy place. Here in Germany it can be so boring! You see a red traffic light, you stop, green, you go. In Lagos, assuming you can find a traffic light that works, you still have to try and figure out your safest option.

Anyway, don't take it personally, Balewa. I am sure there must be a place for everyone in aviation, you included. When I got to Lagos back in 1981 the stated goal was to be able to do without expat pilots, when there were very few local ones. Now you do have quite a few local pilots compared to then, even though you also have even more expats in absolute terms.

Then, as now, you had locals moaning about the unfairness of it all, oyingbos coming to be paid big money that should be going to local pilots. The late Jerry A. was one of the biggest muckrakers on that front and many others until his voice was stilled in a hail of bullets. Do you really want to take his place in railing against your system? Don't make the expats out to be the problem when they are just a symptom of what is wrong with Nigeria itself.

[Metro man]

BALEWA, I've decided to help you out. I can get you an airline job straight away through my contacts in recruitment. Please send me US$2500 via Western Union to facilitate the process. :E

[chuks]

I can do that for $2250! Guaranteed. Also, I know someone who died and left $10 million in a blocked account. All I need from you is.....

[J'Mac]

Very funny :} :D just wet my pants :{

[ZAZOO]

I find calling Jerry a noise maker not very nice.....sad...

For some of my colleagues who may have never heard of
Capt Jerry Eyituoyo Omakpo Agbeyegbe RIP an article I saved from Punch Newspaper that November 2004.


Your friend is gone”, said Mary, the widow of slain pilot and aviation safety campaigner, Jerry Agbeyegbe, over the phone. I had called that morning to confirm if it was true that Jerry had been murdered by some yet unknown assassins the previous morning. Mary confirmed my worst fears – that I had indeed lost my dear friend.
I met Jerry in 1983. I was a fresh reporter working for The Guardian at the Ikeja airport. Jerry was a pilot and operations director with Okada Airline. Months later, he walked away from the job on account of the airline management’s ill-treatment of some junior pilots. Jerry was not directly affected but he quit because he could not stand injustice. Many people were surprised that he could leave such a plum job. Jerry was undaunted. The fact that those three pilots refused to resign with him did not make him look back either. That is Jerry for you – restless, principled, stubborn, risk-taker, and dogged fighter.
Jerry thereafter picked up his pen and began freelancing as Aviation Correspondent. For some time, he did not care about the payment until his savings from Okada Airline ran out. He was barely surviving on his meagre earnings from journalism. He also wrote for international aviation magazines.
As “troublesome” and “rebellious” as he was generally perceived to be, most people would not believe that Jerry did not abuse drugs or alcohol. He was a man much misunderstood, a firebrand who bowed and smiled and hugged when one encountered him, a fighter who often looked so humble and so soft and harmless. He spent his adult years fighting to create an enabling environment for this one love. All other things into which he dabbled were mere distractions. Unionism, safety activism and journalism were means to creating the right and safe environment for Jerry and the rest of us to fly.
At the Lagos flying club where he was an instructor, Jerry trained a good number of pilots now in command today. His students, colleagues and seniors have confirmed that Jerry was a damn good pilot. Having been exposed to American aviation practices, he hoped to see a similar system in place at home. His vision was an industry where services were delivered efficiently; where there was a strong commitment to safety; where lives were not endangered on the altar of corruption, nepotism and mediocrity.
He fearlessly challenged some of the dinosaurs in the industry who wanted the rot to continue. He challenged bureaucrats who saw their jobs as means to self-enrichment and he challenged half-baked “technocrats” who took wrong decisions in matters of life and death. Challenging the established order is dangerous business in any society. Jerry understood this. In an industry such as aviation which operated like a cult, Jerry was a marked man. He was branded a troublemaker and refused job. It came as a surprise to some of us when he was hired by the Aviation Ministry as its head of its flight calibration unit in the 1990s. The very people he fought to change became his colleagues. I doubt if he was ever fully accepted in their midst. He enjoyed his job and he quickly earned his promotion to Chief Pilot of the ministry. He changed what he could from within.
Inevitably, unionism landed Jerry in trouble. He was suspended and later sacked. He challenged it in court where the matter has remained unresolved till today. In our beloved country, justice is not only delayed, it is very often denied. Jerry never got justice until his death.
About two years ago, he visited me with Mary in Lagos. During the visit, Mary urged me to talk to him to endeavour to live a more regular life. But Jerry was not a regular guy. He laughed off our concern. It is impossible to run away from oneself. We knew. Jerry knew too. Mary loved him, absolutely. She sacrificed her own personal dreams to make him happy.
Jerry would later pick up a job to ward off pressure from family and friends. But he refused to abandon his crusade for air safety. If his stand on the policies of the government in which I served sometimes put me at odds with him, I did not show it. He sent me a text message months ago wondering why I had forgotten an old friend. I called to apologise and we exchanged stories about jobs, families and mutual friends. I never brought up his criticisms of government aviation policies. Our friendship transcended transient government appointments.
Capitalising on the one weakness Jerry had which the rest of us often pretend not to share, “Juliet Okonkwo” was used as a bait to lure him out of his house in Victoria Island to enable his enemies to do their worst at Alapere. The cowards who killed him probably did not realise it would stir up so much feeling of anger and sorrow. Jerry himself would not have imagined so much genuine outpouring of emotion. It is not much consolation, but Mary, the Agbeyegbe children and the rest of the family should hold their heads high that Jerry did not die in vain. Our lives have been greatly enriched by his brief but eventful life. Good bye, dear friend. You have gone where fierce indignation can no longer lacerate your heart, as Jonathan Swift wrote on his tombstone many years ago.

[BALEWA]

Zazoo Sir, check your pm, thanks for that, you bring back memories.
Oga Jerry was really good to me as a youngster in this industry.

Thursday is a deal, c you there.

[chuks]

I changed my description of Jerry to read "muckraker" instead. (American journalism has had a long and proud tradition of muckraking. That style of journalism is not always carefully reasearched but it can fulfil an important social role. In a country with true freedom of the press, though, muckrakers do not usually have to pay with their lives, as many feel Jerry did.)

"Noise-maker" was not a well thought-out moniker and I apologise for using it, not that I find it totally unfair, given that out of all that Jerry spoke out against, did anything really change for the better? I should not blame Jerry for that, of course.

I knew Jerry a bit myself, just that we would nod and say hello as our paths crossed here and there in Nigeria, a rather small place when you are flying around it in an airplane.

I first heard about Jerry second-hand from one of my colleagues at the Lagos Flying Club when I asked him where his bruises had come from! That meant that when I met this rather freakish figure in person I was quite dubious of him until I got to know him a bit.

Too, there would be the odd sulphurous article from his pen about throwing all of us expats out of Nigeria. Now, I knew it was not "my country," as you lot love to say at any opportunity (especially when writing from London, for some odd reason) but I did feel a certain attachment to Lagos and my paychecks so that I rather wished Jerry would change the record.

Unfortunately for him he did, turning to raking some of the other muck that the local aviation scene has in such abundance, at a time when that could be highly dangerous. It looked as if he had tipped over some big dog's dish with his muckraking, perhaps not thinking of or caring about the risks. It was one thing to rail against expats but quite another to dish the dirt on what the local movers and shakers got up to, I guess.

Latterly we enjoyed hearing him as he was flying that calibration King Air, when it was obvious that he was enjoying his work, which I am sure he was good at.

Not to speak ill of the dead but many of Jerry's actions and words spoke of his "shoot-from-the-hip" style, sometimes the product of more passion than thought. Never mind, he took his actions, wrote and spoke his thoughts and he was always willing to pay the price for that, perhaps right to the end. If you had more like Jerry then Nigeria might be a better, different place.

As it is, well, he was killed in very dubious circumstances, wasn't he? Jerry shot by the cops, that girl supposedly asleep during the shooting so that she remembered nothing at all of what happened ... the official version read as if he was set up to be killed.

So, Balewa, feel free to moan, as Jerry did, about expats working in Nigeria. I will be very interested to see if you wish to go further, as Jerry did, and look much more deeply into why that is and what is really wrong with the way things are done in Nigeria. Having taken your point, do you now take mine?

Writing for your on-line Nigerian audience you can find sympathy here, and fair enough. For non-Nigerians, especially those who have spent time there, you may come across as a bit precious. It might be worth thinking about how to appeal to a wider audience.

[flareout BC]

At least a wish for the progress of Nigeria's aviation industry is evident in your postings {well, most}.
I see realities my people often hide from in chuk's words; ascrj, sir, I appreciate the humour; God bless Balewa, but as chuks points out, maybe he has to grow a thicker skin.
On our parts as individuals in our different small ways, if we do those little, isolated but seemingly insignificant things, they should somehow add up to impact the whole for good, ultimately. Waiting for the big shots to get it right wont cut it. It's up to us regular types down here.

[Capt. Manuvar]

I don't know any airline that is required to employ expat pilots for safety reasons (Utter b0llocks!). The main reasons there are expats pilots in Nigeria:

1. There are not enough Nigerian pilots, even though that is debatable in some cases

2. Wet leases

3. Airlines don't want to pay for type ratings, so they employ type-rated expats

4. Some (mostly private) operators believe expats are better than locals, even though most come to their senses as time goes by.

5. In some cases expats are cheaper, Nigerians are demanding higher salaries.

In my company, expats are a majority. Yet the new ones request to fly with Nigerian pilots initially till they get comfortable flying in Nigeria.

Flying within Nigeria requires above average situational awareness, which unfortunately most (yes, most) of the expats flying in Nigeria don't have. It takes months, if not years, to build up.
One group of pilots (less than 25%) understand that they are coming to a developing country with lots of problems. So they tap into local knowledge, ask questions and keep an open mind. Wonderful guys to fly with.
The other group have the typical expat attitude. They believe they are superior to the locals and that they are bringing in a wealth of knowledge. They are easily identifiable, just look for the guy constantly moaning in the bus/hotel/flight deck/pprune about how bad Nigeria is and how things work like clockwork back home. They are the one who always sneak into the DFO/Chief pilot's office with "bright ideas". They forget the reason they are employed is to make up the numbers due to a shortage of Nigerians. As you fly with them week in week out, there is no sign of improvement.
My personal opinion is that the best expats go to the likes of EK, Qatar, etc while Africa gets the bottom of the barrel (except for a few).
It's a shame those who have the power to create a professional Nigerian dominated pilot workforce have failed woefully to do so. There are dozens of unemployed foreign trained Nigerian FOs who are being overlooked for foreigners with little or no experience (I've spent a lot of time safety pilot). The last graduating set from NCAT are all on the job market.
Let the big Ogas set high standards for Nigerian pilots, don't train people to meet FO minimum standards, but instead to be potential commanders. The command requirements need to drop, while (operational and training) standards and discipline need to rise. Move boys to the left and give the SA/FAA/NCAT trained newbies a chance

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Note:
There is a similar thread in the "Canadian" section, and I have seen similar threads about this same topic regarding foreigners flying for US organizations.

Intro:
I am an expat pilot in East Africa. Why? I was laid off from my US airline, and this was the ONLY job I could find, worldwide.

So far, the job and living here are going better than I expected. The only real negative was leaving my family in the US.

Answers:
Japan:
JAL terminated all/some of their foreign pilots.
Japan, as a country, is STILL importing pilots as we speak:
"Aug 14, 2009 B767 Captains & First Officers (Sept 2009 Interviews) - Japan CREW RESOURCES WORLDWIDE
Aug 14, 2009 B767 First Officers (Sept 2009 Interviews) - Japan CREW RESOURCES WORLDWIDE"

Why expats?:
Because they are needed. If the local company could find the pilots they needed that FIT THEIR REQUIREMENTS, they wouldn't hire expats.

The requirements vary greatly, from costs (sometimes they hire expats because it is cheaper, overall, than getting locals), to needing people immediately to do a specific job (ie: ATR-72 TRI needed within 2 weeks, etc.).

Aviation only?:
No. This situation exists in ALL industries, not just aviation.
Today, there are Nigerians in America, filling jobs that the companies felt the Nigerians, for whatever reason, were better suited for than any American citizens.

Personal Observations:
Now:
We have had, basically, 7 guys from outside Africa come in, and I am the only one that stayed, for various reasons. I have flown with locals, and some were great, and some were terrible. The full-time local pilot we had is now gone, and we have been looking for local pilots continuously, and so far have added none since April, as we can't find any that FIT THE COMPANY'S REQUIREMENTS.

Long Ago:
There were some African pilots in one of my military classes (I think from Nigeria). They were all not very good at all. Why? Because they did not come in with the background and training necessary for them to succeed. Their host country was not willing to spend the resources needed for them to be trained, both in the classroom, and operationally, to the level that they needed to be to attend the class I was taking and be successful.

I am 99% sure that if they had the training necessary to get them to where the average American was when they showed up to start class, they would have had the same success and failure rate that the Americans had.

Note: My roomate, who was American, was not successful at the training class I was in, either.

cliff
NBO
PS-A HUGE problem in Africa is the graft and corruption. The resources needed to improve the country, as a whole, are sucked up by individuals.
Recently, a US MP equivalent was convicted, by the US courts, of accepting bribes. He was required to pay back ALL the illegal bribes he had received, and was sentenced to something like 20 years in federal prison. I have not seen anything like that happening recently in Africa.

[chuks]

I was amused once when a freshly-recruited Yank lasted just three months before fleeing the local Nigerian aviation scene because nothing in his background, flying in California, had equipped him for what he found when he got there. I had been telling the people who hired him that local knowledge was important but they obviously felt that just anybody could do the job because, hey, I could! Now, one thing those folks weren't was "racist"; they despised ALL pilots! If we had anything going we would be managers, you see!

Part of the problem for Nigeria is that the local press just parrots whatever nonsense the government of the day puts out about the great strides being made in reforming aviation or whatever. The late Jerry A was one of the few swimming against that tide, to his credit. On the surface this or that multi-million-dollar project has always been ongoing but beneath it's just the usual ten-percenting, I fear. Tell us about one major project that has succeeded. Well, perhaps LNG.... Okay, in aviation, then!

Then you have the amazing spectacle of a major airline start-up, Arik, with the backers having got their funds by dubious means. Job-hungry locals want to believe in Arik, of course, as do the people selling them aircraft but many of us think this one has to end in tears and probably sooner than later. Never mind we just have to watch and wait to see what comes of this.

When I got to Lagos in 1981 we had lots of frustrated local pilots looking for work and Nigeria Airways on its way down yet the official position was that the expats were just there on a pro tem basis until Zaria had worked its magic and filled their seats with qualified Nigerians. No, things went the way logic said they would and I really do not see that having changed. Still, best of luck and let's see what comes of attempted change.

[eagleflier]

Manuvar n Cliff have made excellent points. I personally know 10 new pilots off the back of my head who finished from SA btw oct 08 and now who still dont have jobs, me inclusive. I don't blame any expats for taking my jobs cos I know I dont have the experience nor the type rating needed by the airlines and with the current global economic crisis, its not gonna be a walk in the park finding an airline prepared to pay for my TR. Some of us are even thinking about paying for our 737 TR to facilitate employment.
While training in SA, there were Nigerians and also S. Africans who were excellent pilots and students and also there were rubbish ones regardless of race or nationality. Heard there was even a Nigerian instructor @ 43rd flight school, SUPPOSEDLY one of the best schools in SA.
Been wondering, is it possible for an airline's insurance premiums to be higher if they decide to use Nigerian engineers as opposed to expat engineers?

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I have never heard of insurance based on where someone is from. Normally, insurance is based on experience: For example, at my company, the current insurance requires 500 hours in type before you can be a captain.

Typically, if they want you to fly for them, they can find some insurance to cover their operations: If you are lower experience, then the insurance will probably cost the company more.

cliff
NBO

[dejidip]

Times are really fastforwarding,All Chiefs and no Injuns,God help us:E,

[bubby4]

Has ayone heard about ALLIEDAIR IN LAGOS?
THANK YOU FOLKS:confused: