View Full Version : Cadet training- got Interview but am I too short?
7th Aug 2009, 17:07
A few weeks ago I applied to the Cathay Pacific Cadet program and I got a response.
I am 158 cm. I know the minimum height is 160.
Am I going to be rejected at the door of the interviewer's office the second they see I am 2 bloody centimeters too short.
I am all for going to the interview regardless, but I am not willing to have to make a trip to HK for a hopeless interview.(or to make a fool of myself as they chastise me)
If anyone knows, plesase respond. I probably have to respond to their email ASAP.
8th Aug 2009, 00:31
You may well pass the interview, but you will fail the medical without a doubt. Sorry, but I wouldn't even bother....
8th Aug 2009, 06:40
Maybe a little extreme, but there a places specialized in "extending" people. They do it by "breaking" your legs during a surgical procedure.
Height increase operation (limb lengthening) at the Center of Orthopedic Cosmetology (http://www.cosmcenter.com/height-increase.htm)
8th Aug 2009, 13:12
don't worry about it! what is 2 cm?? nothing! who will see a difference? during the medical, raise your feet a little bit. Go for the interview and do your best. Don't be discouraged by your height.
9th Aug 2009, 05:53
Wear heels like Richard Hammond....
16th Aug 2009, 08:47
Are you all serious? Am I really the only person who's willing to speak up so that the OP won't waste his time and money?
To the OP, the reason airlines impose a certain minimum height is that in the past, student pilots with heights of 159cm or shorter were admitted, but when they found that they were unable to effectively control the rudder pedals during spin training and spin recovery (which require a lot of rudder authority), their height posed harm and jeopardized the flight's safety, as they weren't able to reach the pedals. If 158cm was OK, CX would've said "APPROXIMATELY 160cm". but this isn't the case, they said "a MINIMUM of 160cm", because it's been PROVEN that if the legs were ANY shorter, the flight's safety would be put to increased risk. What, did y'all think the height requirement was just for LOOKS? It's for safety. It's for the potential lives of you and your passengers. Merely being able to REACH the pedals is not enough, you must be able to press each of them forward to their individual, mechanical stops, without slipping forward in your seat.
The logic of some of the responses you got are genuinely flawed, because if CX's requirement was, for instance, 2cm, and you were only 2cm shorter which would make you 0cm tall. Oh but guess what? It "wouldn't matter", 'cause "0cm is only a 2cm difference from the requirement!! It wouldn't make a difference!! It's so minor!"
Fail. Use common sense please.
Who will see the difference?? The investigators will, when they perform an autopsy on you, after you failed to properly recover from an inadvertent spin with the probable cause determined to have been your lack of physical height to fully control the rudders. Wait, autopsy? Oh yeah, that's only if there was any part of you left after the impact and post-crash fire.
To the OP, I sincerely, truly, wish for you to have the best of what you're looking for. Having said that, I'd highly recommend that you contact CX directly and ask them your question. Ask them exactly what you asked us, otherwise if you don't, all the answers you'll get here would all be merely SPECULATIONS (including mine). Do you want answers from the 18-26 year old crowds all looking for the same job, or from CX management themselves? Are you gonna bet your career on a RUMORS forum?? It's your career. It's your future. Do it RIGHT and get your answers from the ONLY TRUE RELIABLE source - CX.
Good luck. :ok:
16th Aug 2009, 13:48
in general all airbus and boeing jets flightdecks are designed for about 80% of the population taking away the 10% short and tall ... the design eye position of the seat is very important not just reaching the flight controls also looking outside for visual cues
17th Aug 2009, 07:32
Sorry my friend, but I have to say something. You're full of it!
Your story about they were unable to effectively control the rudder pedals during spin training and spin recovery and blablabla is quite funny to read.
I know several short pilots who fly commercial jets without any problems. Cathay may have self-imposed a minimum height, but that's just them.
To the original poster: I suggest you contact Cathay. I would be surprised if they fail you only because of you height. They do employ current "short" crew. In any case it won't stop you from pursuing an aviation career.
Grass strip basher
17th Aug 2009, 07:59
Since when did CX spin its airbuses and boeings?? I am not sure spinning is even in the CPL syllabus anymore is it?? You seem to have gone off on one a bit there Machsparrow.... :confused:
Well he or she better be able to push the rudder in a Boeing or Airbus to the stop if required, they will be doing it a couple of times every 6 months for the rest of his or her career in their bi-yearly proficiency check.
17th Aug 2009, 11:15
Chances are, if they deem you suitable enough for the job, they will most probably give you a chance in the simulator to see if you can reach all the major controls without a problem. With the correct seating position, of course...
require a lot of rudder authority
search: rudder pedal extension
17th Aug 2009, 13:35
I say GO for it. Getting an interview is already a big step forward and its a chance you wont get everyday. Even if you have to spend thousands I think its worth it. try your luck. even if it doesnt succeed you wont always have that thing on your mind:'Would they have selected me?....would I have become a pilot?...' and thats gonna stay your whole life, I say go for it. If I understand what I have read here, someone who is 1M60 will be able to use the full travel of the rudder whereas a guy who's 2cm shorter wont. That cant be serious. If you never try you never get, so i say go for it. Money is nothing compared to a life changing opportunity and a dream come true! Best of luck with that!:ok:
17th Aug 2009, 13:49
bobrun, didn't I suggest for the OP to contact CX directly as the best solution? We seem to be on the same page here. :)
There aren't any regulations on this per say, but CX is not the only airline with this policy:
Can I become an airline pilot when I am only 163 cm tall? (http://www.askcaptainlim.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:can-i-become-an-airline-pilot-when-i-am-only-163-cm-tall&catid=51:height&Itemid=74)
Then again, my whole point was to play the devil's advocate and letting the OP know that this is a rumor's forum - something like this that could impact the OP's future career is best solved by contacting CX directly (something that we both advocate).
17th Aug 2009, 13:54
Grass strip basher,
The cadet pilot program includes a good amount of aerobatics training for the cadets. As for emergency maneuvers training in the sims, a stall/spin scenario recovery training is not uncommon among many airlines.
20th Aug 2009, 17:59
I browsed some of the pictures from FTA, there are loads of cadets and instructors who are not tall. I am not sure how tall they are but nowadays I am not sure whether you could impose any restriction openly like height or ages in any kind of recruitment.
23rd Aug 2009, 15:51
I'm 158cms too http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif
i've been in the 747-400 and a380 sim at qantas and managed to get full rudder deflection and reach the switches on the overhead panel. the seats can move in any direction and go pretty far forward and the rudder pedals can be moved forward so u wont have a problem there.
The idea for the height restriction is so that at the eye reference level you can achieve max rudder deflection. so unless ur body is extremely un-proportional i don't think you'll have a problem. I also had a talk with HR officer at CX a year ago and she said as long as u meet the ICAO standards you'll be fine http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif
don't ever let ur height stop you : )
There you go. You shouldnt just abandon cause of 2cms.!
Now another question for you guys. Im 190CM tall and i read somewhere that if i was that height or above id have to go through some additional checks to see if i...fit... or something...dont remember for what airline that was. But can anyone help me out with this? I guess If I can fly a 172 Safely(although a lil cramped) i wont have too much trouble with the bigger planes right?!
24th Aug 2009, 00:04
I know of at least one F-18 fighter pilot who is 195cm, and those things are pretty small, so you should be fine.
24th Aug 2009, 12:33
The CX height limit is actually on the low side Singapore airlines is arround 165 cm. But a height limit does not really tell the story.
Functional reach and leg length are what is required
The RAF currently requires the following:
Weight: 56.8 - 94.0 Kg (ejection seat limits)
Functional reach (shoulders to thumb-tip):
740 - 900 mm
Sitting height: 865 - 1010 mm
Buttock knee: 560 - 660 mm
Buttock - heel: 1000 - 1200mm
A combination of the minimums would be very ape like!
Note a height limit is not mentioned but a survey of RAF aircrew carried out in the past would suggest a lowest likely height of 165 cm.
You need the leg and arm reach to adequately achieve full control deflection and to reach all vital cockpit controls (the upper military limits are to avoid leaving legs and arms behind on ejection).
It should be noted that a height of less than 160cm does not preclude holding a class one medical, (but my 8 year old daughter could also qualify for one of those). However, it may well prevent someone from acheiving full rudder deflection whilst operating the throttles and maintaining the required eye position, as needed in any landing or takeoff performed near the crosswind limit. Or passing an aircraft rating on a large public transport, (which can also require considerable strength to fly under adverse conditions).
As an earlier thread stated, aircraft are designed around the 95 centile range. It is an unfortunate fact that not everyone is the right shape to control one, and there has to be a limit somewhere.
This limit is currently 160cm in CX.
4th Sep 2009, 04:51
I am sure I have 160cm and it's stated in my class II (which is done in Melbourne) and class I (in HK). However, I've got 159 in CX medical n got kicked out right after my height is measured. and my Stage 3 interview next day was cancelled as well.:( The Doc reassured me of the accuracy of the measurement in CX in told me that CX is never going to hire me....:bored: So they're only considering their INTERNAL MEASUREMENT for INTERNAL REQUIREMENT.
However I still encourage wannabes to give it a go as we do know there're marginal cases that are provided the opportunity to try out in the sim and eventually passed the test. (tho' rumor has it that they dun do the reach test anymore:confused:) And of coz the management denied they've ever admitted any applicant who's under 160cm.
I asked about it and the HR told me it is the Medical which recommend applicant to go for the sim test. So I guess the Doc who sees u in the medical is critical for passing "marginal cases".
For wannabes who don't want to take any risk, I also heard from management captains that this 160cm policy is going to be reviewed. The height requirement may be changed to a reach test (just like those in FA selection). But it may take a couple of years' time.
5th Sep 2009, 15:20
Did you take the height measurement in the morning or late afternoon ?
6th Sep 2009, 01:54
I took it at abt 2.30pm. Try to do some stretching n ask for a morning appointment. I think it would help if you're just around 160.
6th Sep 2009, 13:40
CX has wasted money on training people in the recent past who couldn't physically do the job, when it came to a V1 cut in the simulator. Given that CX is flush with many more applicants than course places at the moment, I would imagine that the Company recruitment limits are being stringently applied.
If you really want to fly then give it a go anyway. Try and grow/stretch in the meanwhile. There are exercises you can do and lots of information on the internet. Didn't Frank Whittle (the guy who invented the jet engine) have the same issue?
Most flying careers have challenges and setbacks. At 18 I was told to "go away, you have got a heart murmur". I eventually proved them wrong. A few years later my course was cut during a downturn, leaving me to finish my training under my own steam, and then go out and find a job. But in the end I achieved my ambition and it was worth the effort and sacrifices.
If you really want it, then keep trying all the possibilities, and don't give up. :rolleyes:
6th Sep 2009, 16:47
well said , Jonathan:ok:
dont give up your dream just because of one rejection,
' what doesnt kill you would only make you stronger !