GPS for PPL use. [Archive]

BackPacker

4th Aug 2009, 09:37

Me? The Garmin eTrex Euro (simplest of the range, about 100-130 euros these days), data cable, serial to USB converter, OziExplorer with self-scanned Jeppesen maps on the laptop. I already had this setup before I started flying and it still serves me well.

High end would be a Garmin 496 or 696. Or anything in between. I also heard good stories about Avmap.

What's more important is that you know the device inside out, and know the limitations of your device. And always have a backup plan if the device fails.

Katamarino

4th Aug 2009, 09:51

I use a Garmin 296. I love it, and would recommend it to anyone. I use it for primary navigation flying around Europe, with a flightplanned chart as secondary. I also use it on my flying holidays in the US, as a backup to the panel mounted GPS!

In the Cessnas that I tour in, the yoke mount is perfect, and I suggest it.

flybymike

4th Aug 2009, 11:26

Use the GPS for primary nav not back up. To avoid getting lost, rely on the mark one eyeball for back up only.........

Akuji

4th Aug 2009, 11:42

Hello

I've heard a lot from people of the Navigo V2 as a cheap GPS, with CAA map installed...
Its a good device to use as a first GPS as it goes well with the CAA map as a back up.

I've considered it myself but i'm a little unsure how to install the CAA map on the Navigo.....

MacBoero

4th Aug 2009, 12:11

I've considered it myself but i'm a little unsure how to install the CAA map on the Navigo.....

Perhaps the key to understanding how this might be possible is knowing that the Navigo V2 is simply a pocket PC with a GPS built in. It runs Windows CE.NET v5. So presumably it is then possible to install a more aviation orientated GPS mapping program like NavGPS Pro (http://www.flynavgps.com/), Flitesoft Express (http://www.rmstek.com/express.php) or how about something like PCAvionics Mountainscope (http://www.pcavionics.com/mtnscopeppc.jsp)?

dublinpilot

4th Aug 2009, 12:30

Perhaps the key to understanding how this might be possible is knowing that the Navigo V2 is simply a pocket PC with a GPS built in. It runs Windows CE.NET v5.

That's note QUITE true.

WinCE is a subset of PocketPC (known as Windows Mobile since 2005 or so).

Stuff designed to run on Windows Mobile or PocketPC will not necessarily run on a WinCE device, as WinCe does not have all the devices and libraries that are in Windows Mobile or PocketPC.

In particular the installation method for Windows Mobile is generally using ActiveSync which does not exist on WinCE devices. This means that you usually have to find another way of installing the software.

But I do understand that Memory Map will run on WinCE, and there are plenty of guides around showing you have to set it up.

dp

MacBoero

4th Aug 2009, 12:59

The Navigo runs a Win CE.NET which supports ActiveSync, plenty of so called 'hacking' sites on how to do it. In most cases simply a case of downloading some software and running it. It might be worth noting that Windows Mobile v5 IS Win CE v5.

Steps include getting ActiveSync to run, in fact the ActiveSync installer is actually on the Navigo!

Getting the desktop to run by default, instead of Navigo's menu system.
Then you can pretty much install what you want.

But don't take my word for it, go HERE (http://navigo.wikispaces.com/sy885v2) and see for yourself. :ok:

nmcpilot

4th Aug 2009, 15:47

I ordered the cheapest Garmin GPS from pooleys I think, think i was the little grey handheld one that costs 130quid...

Anyway 2 days later the GPS arrives but they accidentally sent the 700quid Garmin 296!!!!

Needless to say I never phoned them to tellthem and thats the one thing I have gotten out of aviation lol.

Lunchmaster

4th Aug 2009, 15:48

Anybody have views on the kind of GPS that uses CAA half mil charts such as the new Airbox devices?

I'm the market for a GPS and was leaning towards the 296 before I saw the Airbox Freedom Clarity. Seems great to be able to cross check traditional navigation with the GPS using the same chart. But it doesn't have the features of the Garmin and is almost the same price.

Lunchmaster

miroc

4th Aug 2009, 17:47

You can consider the AV8OR (Bendix-King). I have a new one, flown it just once. Good little thing, usable in the car too. Comes with voucher for fresh database update, cables, charger, mounts for plane and car. With Atlantic database on SD-Card slightly over 500 EUR+VAT.

I planned the route on it and flew it later too. It did exactly what I needed. It is absolutely necessary to know the way it works however. I played with it on the ground several hours and thought I am fine. In the air it was a different story, but I guess couple of hours of airborne experience will be enough.

TCU

4th Aug 2009, 18:18

Had my 196 now for many years and its given very good service, as have Garmin who kindly provided a new mount free of charge when mine was liberated from a parked airplane

Buy the best you can afford and plan to stick with it for as long as possible. I have no plans to swap my 196 so should end up getting good vfm

modelman

4th Aug 2009, 19:40

Gbarral

5th Aug 2009, 10:54

The Bendix Skymap is the best you can buy. Its one of only a very few that actually tell you where you are in English: thats very good for position reports. You can buy them new or on ebay and you can rack mount them or yoke mount them.

lordhedges

5th Aug 2009, 13:33

Airbox gives positional reporting too

gasax

5th Aug 2009, 15:01

I have a 296 and it's fine. Nothing to rave about but fine. Accessing many of the functions can be a bit of a faff but they are all there. However I've used my friends (two of them!) Skymaps and they are soooo much better. Yes it is an old unit and Bendix should be shot for not developing it further - if the AV8 works the same way it would be my choice.

nadders

5th Aug 2009, 21:19

Get on ebay!

Buy an HP Ipaq 2750 or something of that ilk. I recently bought one for just over £60 including p&p. It has wireless internet access so I can file flight plans online, get weather etc at airfields with wifi access. Le Touquet a prime example.

Buy a 'Bluenext' bluetooth GPS and pair it with said Ipaq. Battery lasts for ever, reception is within seconds and s far mine has been flawless!! Amazon £35.

Get 'Memory Map.' Think they do EU charts for about £40. No ambiguity when navigating with a chart in the cockpit aswell. I've found it to be fantastic! Flew with a friend with a Garmin 196 and it spent most of its time losing its signal and generally I found the screen to be poor whilst my Ipaq with bluetooth performed flawlessly.

nadders.

WorkingHard

5th Aug 2009, 21:36

Does anyone have for sale gimble mount for a Colour Skymap?

ZFT

6th Aug 2009, 00:13

XXPLOD

6th Aug 2009, 07:05

The appropriate charge would be Theft under S(1) of the 1968 Act.

liam548

6th Aug 2009, 16:40

Anyone got this system, looks to tick all the relevant boxes, any opinions?

States for VFR use. What makes this so suited to VFR whilst other units do not specify, could this also be a disadvantage?

GPS | AirBox | Airbox Foresight Visual Flight Information System (http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=1641)

XXPLOD

2nd Sep 2009, 18:50

I'm keen to hear more views on the Airbox if any has bought one. So far I've heard mixed reviews.

IO540

2nd Sep 2009, 19:05

I am looking to buy a GPS just as a backup. As I plan on doing quite a lot of flying across Europe.

Here we go again :)

If you want a GPS as a backup, don't bother. Using one as a backup is a bit like driving a Vauxhall Viva, towing a brand new BMW just in case the Viva breaks down.

If you want to use a GPS properly, you need to get onw with the biggest moving map you can afford. Situational awareness comes from the moving map.

Hugh_Jarse

2nd Sep 2009, 20:44

IO, shhhhh ... I'm really hopeful that the Meldrews won't notice !

jxc

2nd Sep 2009, 20:48

I have an Avmap EKP iv on the yoke and also a 5" screen running memory map and I find it really allows me more time looking out the window

incoming

Rans Flyer

2nd Sep 2009, 20:49

I've had a navigo. quite a few pocket PC's (mio's, ipaq's XDA's etc) running pocket FMS & memorymap, Lowrance's, Asus PC's, garmins (96C, 196, 295, 296)...... blah blah blah.

For functionality, reliability, ease of use in the air, and shear volume of information, if you can afford it I'd go for a 296 (and install cubs VRP database) or a 96C (40h on 2 AA's, superb screen in daylight, built in 128mb and waterproof)

Ultranomad

2nd Sep 2009, 21:12

If it's really just for backup purposes, one more option is to get a Windows Mobile communicator with GPS. Not very convenient to use but versatile and infinitely tinkerable. In a 180 g device, you can have not only a GPS navigator, but also a cellphone, a camera, an organiser, a web browser, etc.

Slopey

2nd Sep 2009, 21:19

I've just had an AV80R delivered from Harry's and having a play so far on the ground (as the wx won't let me use it in anger), it seems to be the business for a no-nonsense GPS.

The touchscreen is great - you can drag the map around, tap on airspace, obstacles, airfields etc and get more info, MATZ & VRPs all seem to be there (for my local area anyway), and the topo map/profile view looks pretty handy. The update on the website adds extended runway centerlines, and a few other goodies.

Works great as a Car satnav too. Also plays movies/sound/ebooks (although what use that'll be I dunno, except for occupying the nipper on a long car drive).

Standard USB connection, and SD card for storage. Charges off the USB port too, which is nice.

Battery life with the standard battery is about 1.5 hours which is a bit low, but standard nokia battery so easy and cheap to get a bigger one.

Comes with suction mount, yoke mount, usb cable, headphones, AC adapter (UK & Euro pins).

Registered on the Bendix site a few hours back and got my maps update confirmation through - aside from that £35 for an update (or you can get a sub).

Went for the AV80R in preference to the Clarity - CAA charts aren't vector so they pixelate when zooming, no usb/standard port, no car nav (not a biggy but nice to have), no on-map topo.

So far so good. Hoping to head to the St Omer fly in around the 12, so will be comparing it with a 296 and 250XL which are coming too.

Shunter

2nd Sep 2009, 21:39

Personally I'd go for the Bendix stuff over the cheaper Garmins any day of the week. The 196 is pretty awful, and I don't particularly rate the 296 either. The SkyMap 3 and AV8OR are both superior units for clarity of reference and features IMHO. The 496 and newer are pretty tidy, but very expensive.

I don't understand what is meant by the CAA charts pixelating. How far do you really need to zoom?! Now if only someone had figured out how to get the CAA VFR charts up and running on the iPhone.... :E

Slopey

2nd Sep 2009, 22:05

The charts used in the Clarity are of a fixed resolution. At that specific resolution, they're nice and sharp, but you don't get much on the screen. If you want to zoom out (or in for detail etc), they become blurry as they're rescaled/resized as opposed to vector maps which scale correctly with no loss of resolution.

Think of it as zooming in on a cell phone photo. Looks ok on the phone, but zoomed in on a PC monitor it goes horribly blocky.

Deeday

3rd Sep 2009, 00:13

Once you have used a 296 you would never want a 196.Colours are great, but is the 296 as readable as the 196, say under a bubble canopy, in bright sunlight and with sunglasses on? If anyone has made the comparison, I'd be happy to hear.

lordhedges

3rd Sep 2009, 08:08

you're right Slopey, except that the Airbox software uses four of these "fixed resolution" tiles set at different scales for each section of map.

The user can zoom in and out from these giving 9 levels of zoom in total with minimal break up of image.

Humaround

3rd Sep 2009, 08:22

Have to disagree about the wonderfulness of the Skymap - there was one of these in an RV6 I part-owned for a couple of years.

3 things - incredibly slow screen updates (up to 5 secs to zoom in/out, which is a long time at 150 knots)

the planned route is a thick purple line, and controlled airspace is... a thick purple line

too many button presses to do almost anything, in particular re-establish flight plan after turning the unit off (eg to re-fuel)

What I DID like though was the GPS generated position reference - so with no effort I could tell ATC "5 miles south of ..."

I agree, if Bendix had updated it, it would be much better, and somewhat worth the inflated price.

Rans Flyer

3rd Sep 2009, 12:18

"What I DID like though was the GPS generated position reference - so with no effort I could tell ATC 5 miles south of ..."

You can do that with the 296.

Also, I fly a Jab with a clear roof and my friend flies a Shadow. We both have a 296 and can read the screen ok. The 196's LCD is probably clearer in sunlight, (if you can make out the different grey scalling for airspace with direct sunlight on it).
Having colour to define airspace makes up 10 fold for any clarity issues on the LCD compared to the 196.

The best GPS in strong direct sunlight (colour or B/W) is the Garmin 96C, Go check one out. Really is superb.

Big Pistons Forever

3rd Sep 2009, 16:25

I bought the GARMIN 495. I think it is worth the extra money over the 296, because the processor is so much faster than 296. Everything just works better on this unit.

XXPLOD

8th Sep 2009, 14:50

Good point about the iPhone Shunter, although the Airbox app at £9.99 is well worth a look. Basic, but has all the UK airfields, can navigate to the nearest airfield and gives you basic heading, altitude distance and time to destination info. A very worthwhile backup.

neilgeddes

8th Sep 2009, 15:25

I love my Garmin 96c. Compact and powerful.

Intercepted

8th Sep 2009, 16:14

I bought Airbox Clarity a couple of days ago. I'm a new PPL and have only tried it in air once. Really liked the CAA chart with visual airspace warnings and relative positions to towns/airfields etc.

I was told that GPS is good as a "backup" to your dead reckoning, probably because I just took the step from student to pilot, but after 5 minutes usage the map and plog went to to the back seat and the gps became my main device for navgation and plog/chart took the role of backup :)

The clarity is relatively cheap for what you get, but I can see that chart upgrades (other countries than uk) will add to the cost. The battery life is fairly short but can be boosted by an external battery booster (not necessarely an expensive airbox one).

Typing in letters for user defined waypoints etc. is a bit crappy. It's touch screen but it doesn't overlay a keybord. You have to step through the whole alphabet to get to the characters you want. hopefully this fiddly process will change in a later software version.

Croqueteer

8th Sep 2009, 16:37

:ok:Garmin 55AVD. Had it for years, scared to try anything else!

jxc

8th Sep 2009, 17:57

I was told that GPS is good as a "backup" to your dead reckoning, probably because I just took the step from student to pilot, but after 5 minutes usage the map and plog went to to the back seat and the gps became my main device for navgation and plog/chart took the role of backup http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

I like this very much bet you'll get some flack on that

Shunter

8th Sep 2009, 18:40

I like this very much bet you'll get some flack on thatMaybe, but why? GPS is the most accurate form of navigation available to GA pilots, so why tit around when you can use a piece of modern technology and enjoy precise, accurate navigation? Whilst I can quite happily navigate with a map and a stopwatch, why would I when there is a vastly superior alternative available? Given the ever increasing complexity of controlled airspace in the UK and the potential consequences of infringing it one could infer that not using the technology available to you is frankly idiotic.

IO540

8th Sep 2009, 18:59

Unfortunately, even today a lot of pilots feel they need to include that phrase "will use it for backup only" when asking questions about GPS, for fear of being jumped on.

Personally I would use the best available tool I have for any job, consistent with being able to use alternatives if necessary.

jxc

8th Sep 2009, 19:11

Don't get me wrong I use a Avmap on the yoke and have memory map running caa charts running as well as I agree GPS is far more accurate and does give me more time looking outside. i do have the paper chart nearby incase I loose signal

Cheers

Lister Noble

9th Sep 2009, 10:06

I fly an L4 Cub which has a perspex roof and allows a lot of light inside and currently have a Garmin E-trex which I bought for walking,cycling etc but it is not really suited for flying.
I am interested in the positive comments re the Garmin 96C,good definition in bright light,good battery life and good facilities,and don't want a large unit as it will sit on a bean bag type mount on the front seat.
Does anyone have one in the S.Norfolk/N.Suffolk area that I could look at?
Lister:)

neilgeddes

9th Sep 2009, 10:32

Hi Lister, the Garmin 96c is good in most light conditions, light & thus portable, and the battery life is excellent. I just use it as a backup aid to see my progress in flight on a pre-planned VFR route. Don't expect to be able to fly and fiddle with the device - the keys are too small for that. I plan my routes using Memory Map Welcome to Memory-Map Navigation Software : Digital Maps for PCs and Pocket PCs (http://www.memory-map.co.uk/) with the digital CAA charts (excellent) and the software easily programs the Garmin. After the flight I can then upload the GPS tracks back into Memory Map to see exactly where I've been and keep as a record.

Lister Noble

9th Sep 2009, 11:36

Neil,thank you,is the software easy to use?
I'm reasonably OK with PC's,laptops but not a guru.Lister:)

Katamarino

9th Sep 2009, 11:58

On my multi-week trips, I like to fly with a GPS for primary nav, and another independant GPS as backup. In addition, I'll have the chart on my lap, and keep track of position, as a worst-case backup. So far, it's worked flawlessly!

neilgeddes

9th Sep 2009, 12:38

Neil,thank you,is the software easy to use?
I'm reasonably OK with PC's,laptops but not a guru.Lister

I say yes but many prefer Jeppesen's FliteStar or one of the other packages available. NavBox etc.

JTN

9th Sep 2009, 18:49

Personally I would use the best available tool I have for any job, consistent with being able to use alternatives if necessary.

Agreed. FWIW I use a G296, flying around the Czech Republic, Germany, Poland etc (for info as OP said he plans flying around Europe), and have no complaints. Very clear in the 172 cockpit and the perspex of the Zlin 142. And yes, I do use it as primary navaid when going somewhere unfamiliar, particularly if using controlled airspace. I also use VOR, NDB etc as backup for enroute and stopwatch and line on a map as a final line of defence.

My challenge is remembering to make sure I keep using the map/stopwatch on a regular basis as primary nav, since the skill does decay ever so fast if you don't use it!

flybymike

9th Sep 2009, 22:43

What we need is a line on the ground, not the map...

avionimc

9th Sep 2009, 23:02

Garmin 296
free VRPs, etc. at VFR Waypoint Add-Ons (http://www.pipercub.flyer.co.uk/id45.htm)

DEGDO

11th Sep 2009, 09:55

There is one more choice - PocketFMS - the software one can use on almost every kind of device (laptops, PDA, mobile phones, car navigation...) - I think it is worth to look at.

avionimc

27th Oct 2009, 14:00

the resources site with the GPS VFR Waypoints Adds-On relocated to :

http://www.vfrdata.com/
http://www.vfrdata.com/

Happy & Safe Flying,

steveking

27th Oct 2009, 18:25

Used a 296 then replaced it with a 496 in an RV6 panel mounted. Both screens are fine in direct sunlight. Although the very early 296s had a slightly less bright screen.
I'd have to say I'm not sure the 496 is worth the extra. Yes the faster processor and a features are nice but one thing that iritates me is the addition of airways that really clutter the screen. Having said that I still prefer the garmins the fan lines at a strange airfield are a superb feature.

172driver

27th Oct 2009, 19:45

Years ago bought a Garmin 96 (in the - mistaken - belief that the battery life was much better than the 96c). Has gotten me across Europe, around Africa and Australia. In a word - does it what it says on the tin: works.

Doing it again today, would most likely go for the 296 (just cannot bring myself to retiring my 96......)

Hugh_Jarse

28th Oct 2009, 23:16

I'm planning on buying a map to use as a backup to my GPS. Before you all start on me, I have no intention of using it for primary nav, and it will probably just spend ages in my flight bag - hey, I bet if I ever need to use it, I'll find that I've forgotten to refill the lead in my propelling pencil !

Anyway, I've looked on all the usual web sites, but there seems to be a really confusing variety of maps to choose from - can you clever chaps help please ? Ideally I'd like to get one delivered in a plain brown wrapping in case the chaps down the club get wind of it ....

flybymike

28th Oct 2009, 23:45

Well said Hugh!...;)

IO540

29th Oct 2009, 09:10

Nice one :ok:

BackPacker

29th Oct 2009, 10:03

HJ, a word of caution. The delivery method of these new-fangled "paper maps" is totally different from what you're probably used to. You see, they can't send them to your e-mail address, nor offer an internet download. They have to use something called the "postal service" where a guy in a van drives up to your property and stuffs the goods through a small slot which you're supposed to cut in your front door.

Also you don't get automatic updates on these "paper maps". You've got to order completely new ones every year and throw the old ones out.

Oh, and you need to have a "physical address" for this delivery method. If you, like most of us, live in cyberspace exclusively, you're stuffed. In that case you've got to find someone who has such a "physical address" (preferably with something called a "zip code" or "postal code") who can receive the goods for you.

And no, your "physical address" is not the same as your GPS coordinates.

tangovictor

29th Oct 2009, 23:37

nmcpilot, as XXPLOD said, you could be charged with theft, I would phone them tomorrow, they may even give you a deal for being honest.
I use a 296 great piece of kit, except the horrid mapping, then I brought an Airbox 7 inch screen, CAA charts, the easiest touch screen flight planning ever, I'd recommend Airbox to anyone, and as a bonus, there a UK company run by UK pilots, who are very open minded re mods you suggest etc