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JamieMac
26th Jul 2009, 11:34
Hi Guys,

I am writing to look for some help on how to become a pilot. I do not have the the A levels that are stated on some websites. I left school at the age of 16 with GCSE's -
A - Computing, Graphic Communication
B - Geography, Physics
C - Maths, English, Art
D - French

I am currently a apprentice mechanic and will leave this course with a NVQ Level 3 in light motor vehicle maintaince and repair.

My dream job is to become a airline pilot but i will do anything to put this into shape.

Please could someone give me a pointer in the correct direction on how to put my dream into reality, as i can not see anyway in my eyes.

Thanks for your time

Jamie

cjd_a320
26th Jul 2009, 12:46
Why move from one of the best performing sectors in a depression, to one of the worst...???

Your already ahead of the pack. Motor Repair was one of the top 5 performing industries between 1930 to 1940.

At your age Sit back, enjoy & save some pennies.

Then see how things look in 10 years..

:)

JB007
26th Jul 2009, 13:20
In the mean time, trying reading this lot! It's also a sticky on the front page! (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/131649-archive-reference-threads-posting-guidelines-read-before-you-post-question.html)

Bealzebub
26th Jul 2009, 13:30
My dream job, is to be based in Bora Bora earning 4 times the salary I do now, and only having to fly every Shrove Tuesday in lent! Alas, even if that job actually exists, I am too lazy to actually embark on pursuing it.

Therein lies the problem. How do know this is a dream job? Have you done any flying to see if it is something that you really do enjoy and are competent at. Have you researched the training requirements for all the various necessary licences and ratings. Have you researched the costs and time requirements involved. Have you researched the employment prospects and realities of the career path that you are interested in? Have you researched the job prospects at various points in an economic cycle? Have you researched the attrition rate of prospective commercial pilots and the reasons for that attrition? Have you a realistic fiscal plan that would enable you to fulfill this ambition?

A good pointer would be to do some in depth research. You can start by reading these forums. Whilst far from being the holy grail, they will give you a good insight of the realities people face over and over again, each and every day. Look at the regulatory websites that will state the requirements for basic licence issue and the medical standards required. If it begins to depress you, then look at the training school websites with their rosy predictions and pictures of happy smiling uniformed young people standing next to a lovely jet and wisely wearing quality sunshades as they point meaningfully into the distant sunny skies.

This is an industry that will always need new blood. There are formulaic requirements to be achieved but no particular formula that would enable an individual to achieve them. As an individual your personal circumstances, achievements and goals are either an advantage or a handicap and how you use them to your advantage or overcome them as obstacles is largely down to you. It is also an industry that attracts a huge volume of interest from the the unrealistic dreamers, through to the wealthiest, luckiest, healthiest cleverest and most determined of individuals.

Whilst the country needs more scientists, engineers and entreprenuers and places a priority on recruiting and fostering those types of occupations, there is absolutely no shortage of people wanting to be airline pilots. So much so that people will actually pay to do what was previously a salaried job. The financial risks inherent with this industry have always existed, even for the most successful. Historically those risks became a shared one with the employer. These days that burden has in many cases now shifted totally onto the candidate. Even the flow of employment that normally comes from those at the top naturally retiring, has been all but stopped by statutory increases in the retirement ages for pilots, by anything up to 10 years! A situation almost unique to this one industry.

If this is something you decide is a driving ambition for you. If you are medically fit. If you can find a way to finance the training. If you have a backup plan for the likelihood that there will be no job at the end of that training. If you accept that the industry (even for the most determined) is a very large and slippery pyramid that only begins to work for those near the apex. If you accept that it is a road littered with the corpses of the casualties. If you accept that the romance of dreams will very quickly change to the harshness of reality. If you accept that no matter how rose tinted those expensive aviator sunglasses may be, they will not protect or shield you from these realities. Then yes go for it. But first, do research and do a lot of it!

Sorry if this all sounds a bit brutal, but the truth is, it is a very difficult road for so many reasons, and despite the fact that many happily embark on the journey skipping along it, very few get to the end. The resources you will need in order to stand a chance are, money, luck, health, money, luck, determination, money, luck, ability, money, luck, personal achievements and of course money and luck.

If you cannot see anyway of doing this, then you are either correct and would be wise to give up, (or join the rosy specs mutual support group RSMSG.) That, or you are simply not trying hard enough at the first obstacle. Start reading, start researching, see if you have ability and actually enjoy flying.

Aerouk
26th Jul 2009, 15:11
Have you ever thought about going into the forces? You could join the RAF as an engineer or apprentice engineer for a number of years, while you're working you could pay for your flying lessons and by the time you've completed it all you would still be in your 20s with the licences completed and a huge amount of knowledge on the aircraft.

One of my mates is doing it, and loves it.

JamieMac
26th Jul 2009, 16:11
ok thanks guys. I have looked at alot of the school websites and they all require the candidate to have more qualifications than what i have. I have considered the forces but i do not want to fly fighter jets i want to fly large aircraft like cargo planes. Would this be possible when joining the forces to specify that i would not want to fly fighter jets? Another question i have is how to many cadets aford the the course? do banks in this "credit crunch" time give out a bank loan for a student do a course like this?

JB007
26th Jul 2009, 18:01
i want to fly large aircraft like cargo planes

:ugh::ugh:

Can I suggest you re-read post #4...and give it more attention this time!

i.e.
But first, do research and do a lot of it!
The basics and where to find the rest are all on these pages....

TheBeak
26th Jul 2009, 18:08
they all require the candidate to have more qualifications than what i have

Not if you go the modualr route and not if you have the money in most instances.

but i do not want to fly fighter jets i want to fly large aircraft like cargo planes

With the greatest of respect that sounds to me like you think flying airliners for a living is not working for a living. You can fly Hercs, Galaxys, L1011s etc in the RAF. I do however appreciate that the military is not for everyone. But you didn't say something like 'military life isn't for me', you said that you didn't want to fly fighters. Why on Earth not? And you'd get the best training there is for free. So if I was you I'd ask yourself why you wouldn't want to fly fighters in the military and why civilian flying appeals so much more. If you love flying for the flying then explore all avenues.

Another question i have is how to many cadets aford the the course?

The banks will loan the money with security on a home for example. Not a good route if you ask me. Certainly not at the moment.

Bealzebub
26th Jul 2009, 18:38
The banks will loan the money with security on a home for example.

Banks might lend you money if they perceive the lender to be an excellent risk and likely to be able to repay them. The popular phase being used to define this era is "credit crunch." That is because bank lending has tightened up so significantly, it is defining a whole new period of fiscal reality. These days even "security" is being redefined. A house with sufficient equity to cover the debt is often insufficient. Banks may be seeking an additional equity margin of up to 40% or more, to protect against future falls. Even with these securities most responsible lenders (and they are all learning how to be responsible in that respect,) will still want to see income affordability from either the primary lender or the guarantor.

For the majority of people these levels of lending will be unavailable.

cjd_a320
26th Jul 2009, 18:45
JB007 :ugh::ugh:

Very apt, :) )
Its a shame wannabes have such rose tinted foggles on...

JamieMac,
Why don't you take advantge of the position your in? Build your your savings, get a PPL & enjoy flying as a hobby for the time being, if you really want to fly that much?

I have to admit, when I was your age, I had a great time going over to Florida on vacation bombing around in PA28's taking UCF girls on jollies.... Shame I had to ruin a perfectly good hobby when I look back..... :(

JamieMac
26th Jul 2009, 18:52
i have never ruled out the military side of things, infact it appeals to me. Would i be able to get in and sit the course with the qualifications i have? as just now that is the only thing that is kind of holding me back.

FN-GM
26th Jul 2009, 19:17
Taken from - Pilot - Aircrew jobs - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/pilot.cfm)

Qualifications you need:[/B] 2 A-levels or 3 Highers or equivalent. 5 GCSEs/SCEs at Grade C/3 minimum or equivalent, including English language and maths
Qualifications you can gain: Degree or Masters degree

Aerouk
26th Jul 2009, 19:49
Jamie,

You wouldn't get into the RAF as a pilot with your current qualifications nor would you get the choice of what type of aircraft you fly in the RAF, it's up to them...

I suggest you have a re-read at my post, I wasn't suggesting you join as a pilot I was suggesting you go in as an engineer, allowing you to gain experience and an income which could be put towards flight training.

JamieMac
26th Jul 2009, 20:06
o ok i picked that up wrong. i think that is going to be route i am going to have to go down. Would my current profession as a vehicle mechanic be a advantage on joining the raf as a engineer?

Aerouk
26th Jul 2009, 21:08
JamieMac,

Of course, it shows you have a genuine interest in basic mechanics. You need to remember, you're still young! You have so much time to become an airline pilot; especially now when the economy and recruitment is at an all time low.

If you join the RAF you'll learn much more about aircraft than any University or College could teach you, you'll gain experience and skills you wouldn't get from anywhere else, it's a secure job, get a nice pension from it, travel the world... what else could you ask for at 18/19/20?

When you do go for your first job in an airline how impressive will it look for the airline that they have a young lad whos served X amount of years with a fantastic organisation, getting the best training in the world and working with some of the best pilots in the world.

My mate was laughing about it, a couple of years ago he was fixing Fiat Puntos now he's fixing Fastjet aircraft worth million of pounds.

JamieMac
26th Jul 2009, 21:56
Aerouk,

Thanks for the information, i am seriously considering this route now. After saving up some money, how would i then go about becoming a pilot? apply for sponsorship or sit a modular course?

Thanks

Jamie

twobitbob
26th Jul 2009, 22:16
Jamie and other wannabes,

I've just had a conversation with my youngest brother about the pursuit of his ambition to fly for a career. I might add this was on internet chat since I am 7000 miles away from my siblings and parents, because I am based in the far east flying big shiny aircraft.

We discussed cost of living in the far east, upkeep of his PPL, airline sponsorship, guys I'm flying with and their particular path to the seat at the front, loans from banks secured against homes, and training institutions.

Let me explain, I am 37 in few weeks, I had a strong urge to follow this path which I admit is rewarding mentally (not financially) and challenging.

The current world climate has demoralized and frightened most professions and this industry is no exception.

I was lucky I went to a renowned flying school (in the UK) at the time there was an upturn and things were looking good, drawn in by marketing manager who showed me an empty filing cabinet of supposedly school graduates who were looking for jobs. I scored average 90% in ground studies and passed all flying skills tests first time, like a lot of my peers but were never recommended as promised if we attained certain grades and were "suitable". After we left the school we were left to our own devices, armed with CV's and new JAR/CAA licenses and egged on by some talks held by some pilots and managers from small carriers. Then 9/11 happened, many guys and girls had no jobs to go to (airline or self-sponsored) and on average it was years before we all found jobs ( there's still one or two not flying). Now we are all scattered around the globe and many I am in contact with are either working their nuts off, fatigued, but I hear a lot say they this is not how they expected things to be, some wish they never pursued this line of work.

In todays climate you have training schools selling the ideal time is now to be ready for the upturn (they are in the business to train you and most importantly for them; take your money) airlines making you pay for a/c and line training (pretend to be an airline pilot) and now dump you after 500 hours. We have a glut of inexperienced and experienced pilots around the world working in countries they wish they weren't in, confused by alien cultures and local customs and living with the associated friction.

I'm sorry if this all sounds negative but in order to pursue your passion, bags of patience is also required.

Enjoy time with your friends and family, enjoy your youth, enjoy GA flying and let's see how things pick up and in the meantime you will be gaining invaluable life experiences BUT keep the dream alive.

Aerouk
26th Jul 2009, 22:50
Sponsorship doesn't exist anymore. I doubt it will ever exist, why would an airline pay for pilots to get trained when the pilots are more than willing to pay for it themselves?

The RAF bases usually have RAF Flying clubs, you can usually get flyign at these clubs for about £80 an hour compared to £150 or so an hour at other clubs. After you've got your PPL you could join a local flight school and do your commercial training and work your way up.

Might take you a couple of years, after that you'll be ready to become an instructor or try and become an airline pilot.

You should be trying to become an airline pilot debt free (or with as little amount of debt as possible) so working and flying is an excellent idea. You never know, you might end up becoming an instructor at the RAF flying club before joining the airline.

My suggestion, if you havent already go to your local flying school and get a trial flight. Many people think they want to become pilots but when they actually start flying they end up hating it.

buzzc152
27th Jul 2009, 11:55
So, between 1711 and and 2256 yesterday you went from only wanting to join the RAF if you could fly 'large cargo aeroplanes' to seriously considering a career as an airman/NCO mechanic ?

Don't rush into anything. Can I also suggest that getting into the RAF in any capacity is not just a matter of signing on the dotted line. No doubt they will want to see that you have given the matter some serious thought (more than 6 hours worth) and that you are prepared to commit to a good number of years service.

Bon chance.

Jonty Mc
27th Jul 2009, 17:38
There are no educational requirements required if you are paying for your training yourself.

If you are looking at someone else paying for your training, i.e. a cadetship than there is usaully a minimum educational requirement. I would not however let this stop you applying.

Having done your NVQ will help as you have some background knowledge as to how an engine works. This will help in your exams.
:ok:

TheBeak
27th Jul 2009, 17:50
If you are looking at someone else paying for your training, i.e. a cadetship than there is usaully a minimum educational requirement.

You'd also need for such a thing to exist! So don't worry about the educational requirement.

You can fly in the Army without becoming an officer, you'd need to be in it for a while though, I dn't think eligibility starts until you reach the rank of Corporal. It's another option for you.

Get your head down, work hard, save everything you can (and I mean work every hour you can - if you really want this then you will), forget about going out to plebby clubs and look to start in 5 years. You'll be early 20s and in hopefully an improved economic climate.