MCC / JOC - Where??

[j_m_pearson]

Hi

I'm just looking into starting my MCC and JOC course - when I finish my IR. I have been looking around as the school that I’m at does not offer an MCC/JOC course. Lots of older threads on here regarding the MCC, but I was really hoping to see if anyone had any up to date news.

I can see there are lots of full motion Sims out there 737, etc, but most of them from ringing around are old and not glass cockpit, which is kinda what I was looking for. Anyone give any recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

J

[ford cortina]

Why glass? I fly both the 738 and the 734 for a living, before you start.
At this current moment in time, I would look for the cheapest MCC I could find, there are no jobs so it does not matter where or what you do your MCC on, It is about CRM NOT flying the plane.....
I did mine on a Tristar, best fun I had in a sim.:ok:

[j_m_pearson]

Your probably right!

Just thought it would be nice if I could find something that ticks all my boxes, plus a good price! I'm potentially being a little too picky, when it is of course the CRM that counts - but hey, might as well shop around!

I'm up at Cranfield, yourself?

PM me if my location suits!

Cheers so far, J.

[rogerg]

The OAA generic 737 400 sim has a MCC/JOC course. Give them a call, its less than £3000 for the MCC and think £4500 for both. Try www.oxfordaviation.com (http://www.oxfordaviation.com)

[Sciolistes]

I agree with Ford Cortina, but I also think you'll get a lot from an NG full motion sim too. Will cost a bit more though.

Can't speak for OAA, but be aware that the fixed base ones can be a bit rough around the edges and may not be what you are looking for.

I reckon that this is right up your street: Jetlinx- MCC course details (http://www.jetlinx.co.uk/mcc.htm)

[Brian304]

Yep would really reccommend European (EAC), there really professional, had an ex excel instructor as our instructor, though there B737-200 was pretty old but it didn't stop us from completing the course, pretty cheap price at about 2,300, sorry i've sort of forgotten as it was last year when I completed it, maybe the price has changed this year. If you want to fly B737-800 with glass cockpit then it gets pretty expensive, but i'm sure a company like pegasus airlines or CAE (Ryanair) has all of these sims, though be prepared to pay...

[Vone Rotate]

I also went to European skybus at did it on the 737-200. It was a good course run by two experienced captains. The ground school was good too. Brushed some of those cob web's away:}

I found it a big help for two main reasons.....

1) I did my IR on the twinstar (G1000) so I purposely wanted an analogue a/c to improve my scan and make it stronger which I certainly got out of the course.

2) I worked on the theory if you do it in a 'harder' to fly sim when you jump into the 738 for an assessment it will seem easier to fly. Rather than doing your MCC in a 738 and being put into a classic for an assessment.

Does that make sense??

[j_m_pearson]

Guys,

Thanks so much for all the information. There are indeed a number of options!! I appreciate you all giving me a constructive hand with this. The NG looks awesome, I'd really love to do the MCC on that, seems to tick all the boxes and compares well to where commercial airliners are going technology wise.

Unfortunately might be a little expensive right now with the market from looking at the website.

I was looking at the full motion 732 that someone suggested, looks pretty reasonable and some good feedback about the course too. Will give them a ring this week.

I was wondering if anyone had been to CRM Europe, they seem to be relatively new, apparently opened up last year for external applicants and have been running CRM and JOC courses for the Western Australian Aviation School alongside some others. A mate of mine knows two of the guys who were on it last month and said it was really good in a top notch simulator (unfortunately no motion, but apparently brand new with excellent visuals) with ex airline captains giving great experience and instruction (which is what someone suggested earlier about Europe).

I ask as I'm pretty local to Cranfield, minimizing cost is the most important factor alongside quality for me and would mean I can stay at home. Anyone got any feedback? Would love to hear what others think as I don’t want to stitch myself up!

Otherwise I'd best get in the car and do some visiting!!

Thanks again in advance.

[j_m_pearson]

ps Jetlinx looks great, shame about the price! if only....!

[obi-nu]

Hi all,
This is an interesting thread for me as I have just finished my IR and am in two minds about where and when to do the MCC. I have been told by some that it is better to wait, as airlines prefer you to do the course just prior to starting that first job and that because it is only an 8 day course it is possible to do just before? On the other hand you seem to need the MCC to apply for that first job?? Is it worth waiting for now to be 'fresher' when things inprove and the time comes for jobs or getting it done and added to your CV?

Also of interest is the point made in post 7 regarding time in the NG sim. I think people agree the point of the course is not what you are flying but what you are DOING, but this does raise a point if doing it in a more 'modern' cockpit helps with sim assessment etc?

I would love to hear any further comments from guys that have been there and done it through to their first job? I was looking at european - 737-200 £2399. Also, does anyone know of any other MCC providers based at Gatwick as its close to home for me?

[obi-nu]

'Im in Brighton, finished the IR and trying to decide what to do next, do l wait or do it now.'

Thats makes two of us, same place, same problem! ;)

[flyer101]

Your abosultely right that it is the instruction and the 'MCC' part of the course that makes most of the difference. I did mine through a well known 'Intergrated' school and found the level of instruction and pilot experience to be exceptionally good.

Although the training was on a full motion simulator, which was ace, the visuals were poor. Some of my colleages did their course on a fixed base glass cockpit sim, which had fantastic visuals - so it felt like you were moving anyway!

James - with regards to your question about CRM Aviation Europe - which is why I decided to pitch it. I work at the airfield where that company is based for another FTO. From what I have heard from some of the guys who have been through the course there its all positive. I spoke with one yesterday after reading this and he said the two captains they had running the course for them at the moment (its 2 on 2 for instruction i think) were both current pilots and really made the MCC bit come alive with real life scenarios and experience, etc etc.

Their facility is pretty nice too, much to the envy of other FTOs on the campus!

Anways thats the 'word' on them - I think you have to email or ring them for latest prices though (our receptionist thinks its just over £2k), as I'm sure they have only been doing Intergrated and Corporate guys for the last year.

BUT my advise it go for good recomendations, good MCC instruction and regard the physicalities of the simulator as a 'tool' to complete the actual product in!

Remember these posh simulators are expensive!

Good luck with the MCC James its fun!

[obi-nu]

Danny,

Check your PM. ;)

[Swept_Wing]

Hi,

I also did the MCC at European SkyBus in Bournemouth. The intructors are very experienced captains. Even the ground school was taught very well. Its true that the sim is old but in my opinion it is better to train yourself on an analogue cockpit as for sure it will help you when stepping into a glass cockpit.

[dr boeing]

Don`t base your choice on the fact it looks like an airliner once looked, it is vital to understand the glasscockpit theory, and well. What is it doing now? what is it going to do? and is it doing what i want, i.e. correct FMA`s.
Training methods and tools need to change with the times, current line pilot instructors are good as they give you an insight on how it is done right here and now.
Your fresh probably from your IR, so no need to brush up on that but to apply what you have learned to a modern tool. a modern autopilot etc etc.
Good luck with your choice.

[EI-CON]

I just completed my MCC/JOC with Simtech in Dublin. Very good course, instruction is excellant all very highly experienced instructors for example Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Aer Arann and Virgin Atlantic pilots. Everything ran on time and on schedule.

Overall I really enjoyed the course and think there well worth a look, www.simtech.ie:ok:

[Mikehotel152]

How's this for an idea?

Delay doing the MCC until the job market picks up. If you don't think it will pick up for a year or two, don't do the MCC until just before you need to revalidate your IR. It will be excellent revision and will keep you current. If you think you need an MCC to be marketable despite the current paucity of jobs for inexperienced pilots, perhaps consider a basic FNPTII MCC so you have the tick in the licence box enabling you to apply for a job. You could then do a JOC in a FFS to get that jet time and prepare you for job interviews and sim assessments.

Before I get slated and/or completely ignored, I ought to add that I didn't take my own advice. I did an expensive MCC in a FFS in March. But that was in a time when a certain airline was taking cadets and an overly expensive MCC was an advantage in getting an interview, allegedly. Those opportunities have now gone. And what happens if you buy an expensive MCC and then decide to buy into something like the CTC ATP scheme which requires you to do their AQC (MCC/JOC) in order to get into the holding pool, yet you don't have the money?

I know it's exciting to choose a cool MCC and get into a 737-800 FFS and get a glimpse of your future but the benefits of spending that money are only realised if you do a sim assessment for a job interview soon afterwards. As you won't be able to keep buying 738 sim time to keep 'current' maybe it's better to have kept back those financial resources to buy some sim preparation time with someone like Virtual Aviation just before an interview.

Food for thought. :)

[techboy]

I recently completed the MCC at European skybus in bournemouth, good 8 day course and very cheap for full motion when you compare that some FNPTII MCC's are similar or more expensive..
Good training enviroment aswell because airlines are using the other sims for Type rating courses or LPC/OPC.

only negative comment I have is that we had three different instructors for the week in the sim, training techniques differences! however they were all very experienced and all were aware of our progress.

overall good course and reasonably priced.

[pilotatlast]

Spotted large discounts on MCC/JOC training with OAA. Check out OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com)

[Rudi747]

hi!
what do you suggest me to do? mcc+joc at oxford aviation academy or ryanair mcc course at scandinavian aviation academy?
the total price is amost the same for each school.

[SSTR Man]

Thought I'd dig up this old thread as I’m planning to book my MCC…

Anybody with personal experience of the RYR MCCs care to comment? CAE and SAA are the two places I’ve found which seem to offer it. Are there any others?

Any advantage over say the Oxford MCC ?

[citation3]

CRM Aviation Europe Ltd. (http://www.crmeurope.com/)

[turbine100]

I went to European last year and would not recommend them. Did not feel the experience was that great due to instructor in SIM who was not very professional and shouted a lot.

Also had friend who did not enjoy the experience earlier this year for exactly the same reason and I believe the sim they were in broke down.

The ground school was okay apart from some old video.

I am sure if the instructor was different mine and my friends experiences would have been more positive.

Their are more modern sims around then old 737-200 or 747-200 and to be honest European need more investment if they are to stay around. The impression you get is some of the ex European pilots who lost their jobs were doing the MCC / JOC and had chip's on their shoulders.

CAE Burgess Hill have a good setup too along with Oxford, SAE and the CAE Ryanair MCC / JOC courses.

Good luck

[EGTCtraining]

CRM Aviation are running a really good course at the moment at a really good price. The instructors are great and devote a lot of time to each pair of students.

If you need any more information just google CRM Aviation Europe. It is still priced at 1499, which I think is excellent value for the quality you get.

At the end of the day, the MCC is a very important transition from single ops to multi crew ops - but the course content is pretty much the same everywhere. So why not get it done somewhere where you going to be trained well, looked after and most importantly..... its cheap.

[tomzer]

Hi everyone,
It’s my first post on forum although I’ve been reading it since a while.
I’m looking for some information about CRM Aviation. I’m planning to get my MCC and JOC done on September and that school could be one of my choices.
1. What I would like to know is what you think about training they provide.
2. How can I get from Luton Airport to Cranfield using public transportation?
3. Which place do you recommend to stay at, that is within walking distance, and what is the most important is cheap!
Please PM me or post here on forum.
I appreciate your help.

-Tomzer

[EC-JLT]

.:ok: Good

[MalteseJambo]

Is there anyone out there who did their MCC at Oxford? If so would really appreciate a PM for some inside info on the place.

Cheers in advance

[AI101]

Why do guys always say they want To go on a 738 sim and full Notion and the rest and burn there money, the airlines dont care which sim you did your mcc in nor do they ask all they want is an mcc certificate for you To be legal , dont forget your not going To start a start a type rating but only mcc.

I did my mcc on a fixed base king air sim at London met and fly as a captain now so again don't waste money on expensive fancy machines.

Those guys who think it will help when you go for selection are getting way ahead of your self there as you don't know when or what sim you will be on if invited for a job selection and also then most operators are not expecting you to be able to fly a jet with 200 hours all they Wang to see is basic handling and teamwork(crm) which you should be able to do if you passes your IR.

[BoeingDreamer]

Very strange, when many pilots I have spoken to that it is good experience that you have been and done few hours in a 737 sim (as an example), if you are called up for an assessment with companies like Ryan Air or others who use 737 sims for assessments. (And from what I have heard, quite many do)

Do you really want the assessment day to be your first time in 737 full motion sim?
Do you really not want to be a little familiar at least with some of the characteristics of how the controls feel, cockpit layout etc. I am sure for some it is not a problem, but do you need to take that "risk" for what might be the most important day of your career, to get into that first job!

And to be honest, to save around £500, yes that is the difference, after all the money spent on training, IR/CPL/ME, and you think that an extra £500 to do the MCC in a full motion 737 sim is a major problem.

How much will it cost you to rent a sim for few hours to prepare for an assessment?
It is not a major issue for me, I am not going to put one company ahead of another, but I was offered one for £1900, fixed base Citation, and £2500 for 737 full motion, after all those tests, ATPL's, etc., I want to know and feel what all this is really about, call it a treat, but it is also a new and very good experience, to get the feel of the controls, higher speeds and instrumentation.

It might not give you any more chance of a job on the paper work, but it might give you a little edge on the day you go in the sim for an assessment not to screw it up.

I have a captain friend who is arranging an assessment for me with a company, and he told me to get familiar with the 737 before my assessment, because this will help!

It's a bit like fools and horses, yes smart idea, spent £30000 - £40000 on training, and the extra £600 is what is going to break the camels back!!!! You must be having a laugh! :}

[Skipping Classes]

CAVOK Aviation :: Professional Training by Airline Professionals :: CAVOK AVIATION TRAINING Ltd. :: Szakmai Kpzs Lgitrsasgi Szakemberektől :: (http://www.cavokaviation.com) are going to start MCC courses on A320 in Prague... Works as Wizz Air interview preparation at the same time.

[cambridge]

FTE at Jerez do very good MCC/JOC course in their B737 sim.