BKK airport scam

[jetjockey696]

Nothing about flying... but a very important read who visit Bangkok airport.. that report comes from the BBC. It about a very nasty scam...



Bangkok's showcase new international airport is no stranger to controversy.

Built between 2002 and 2006, under the governments of then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the opening date was repeatedly delayed.

It has been dogged by allegations of corruption, as well as criticism of the design and poor quality of construction.

Then, at the end of last year, the airport was shut down for a week after being occupied by anti-government protesters.

Now new allegations have been made that a number of passengers are being detained every month in the duty free area on suspicion of shoplifting, and then held by the police until they pay large sums of money to buy their freedom.

That is what happened to Stephen Ingram and Xi Lin, two IT experts from Cambridge, as they were about to board their flight to London on the night of 25 April this year.

They had been browsing in the duty free shop at the airport, and were later approached by security guards, who twice asked to search their bags.



Mr Ingram and Ms Xi were told they had to pay £7,500
They were told a wallet had gone missing, and that Ms Lin had been seen on a security camera taking it out of the shop.

The company that owns the duty free shop, King Power, has since put the CCTV video on its website, which does appear to show her putting something in her bag. However the security guards found no wallet on either of them.

Despite that, they were both taken from the departure gate, back through immigration, and held in an airport police office. That is when their ordeal started to become frightening.

Interpreter

"We were questioned in separate rooms," Mr Ingram said. "We felt really intimidated. They went through our bags and demanded that we tell them where the wallet was."

The two were then put in what Mr Ingram describes as a "hot, humid, smelly cell with graffiti and blood on the walls".

Mr Ingram managed to phone a Foreign Office helpline he found in a travel guide, and was told someone in the Bangkok embassy would try to help them.

The next morning the two were given an interpreter, a Sri Lankan national called Tony, who works part-time for the police.

They were taken by Tony to meet the local police commander - but, says Mr Ingram, for three hours all they discussed was how much money they would have to pay to get out.



Mr Ingram and Ms Xi were taken to meet the local police commander
They were told the charge was very serious. If they did not pay, they would be transferred to the infamous Bangkok Hilton prison, and would have to wait two months for their case to be processed.

Mr Ingram says they wanted £7,500 ($12,250) - for that the police would try to get him back to the UK in time for his mother's funeral on 28 April.

But he could not arrange to get that much money transferred in time.

'Zig-zag' scheme

Tony then took them to an ATM machine at the police station, and told Ms Lin to withdraw as much as she could from her own account - £600 - and Mr Ingram then withdrew the equivalent of £3,400 from his account.

This was apparently handed over to the police as "bail", and they were both made to sign a number of papers.

Later they were allowed to move to a squalid hotel within the airport perimeter, but their passports were held and they were warned not to leave or try to contact a lawyer or their embassy.

"I will be watching you," Tony told them, adding that they would have to stay there until the £7,500 was transferred into Tony's account.

On the Monday they managed to sneak out and get a taxi to Bangkok, and met an official at the British Embassy.

She gave the name of a Thai lawyer, and, says Mr Ingram, told them they were being subjected to a classic Thai scam called the "zig-zag".

Their lawyer urged them to expose Tony - but also warned them that if they fought the case it could take months, and they risked a long prison sentence.

After five days the money was transferred to Tony's account, and they were allowed to leave.

Mr Ingram had missed his mother's funeral, but at least they were given a court document stating that there was insufficient evidence against them, and no charge.

"It was a harrowing, stressful experience," he said.

The couple say they now want to take legal action to recover their money.

'Typical' scam

The BBC has spoken to Tony and the regional police commander, Colonel Teeradej Phanuphan.

They both say Tony was merely helping the couple with translation, and raising bail to keep them out of prison.

Tony says about half the £7,500 was for bail, while the rest were "fees" for the bail, for his work, and for a lawyer he says he consulted on their behalf.

In theory, he says, they could try to get the bail portion refunded.

Colonel Teeradej says he will investigate any possible irregularities in their treatment. But he said any arrangement between the couple and Tony was a private affair, which did not involve the police.

Letters of complaint to the papers here in Thailand make it clear that passengers are regularly detained at the airport for alleged shoplifting, and then made to pay middlemen to win their freedom.

The Danish Embassy says one of its nationals was recently subjected to a very similar scam, and earlier this month an Irish scientist managed to flee Thailand with her husband and one year-old son after being arrested at the airport and accused of stealing an eyeliner worth around £17.

Tony told the BBC that so far this year he has "helped" about 150 foreigners in trouble with the police. He says sometimes he does it for no charge.

The British Embassy has also warned passengers at Bangkok Airport to take care not to move items around in the duty free shopping area before paying for them, as this could result in arrest and imprisonment.

[raffele]

Very nasty indeed - I read about it this morning

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Tourists warned of Thailand airport scam (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8154497.stm) is the link

Touch wood I never become victim of this...

[KENNEDY TOWER]

This is totally unacceptable for an International Airport, I guess the lesson to be learned here is check-in then go directly to your boarding area, avoid the duty free shop completely. A real con job and the Government of Thailand should be ashamed. :=:ugh:

[ExXB]

While unacceptable that is the way of the world. I personally avoid the duty free shops at BKK - Overpriced and lousy service, besides the CCTV it would seem.

[gone_fishing]

KENNEDY TOWER,

It's Thailand! A very friendly country in all with brilliant people and cities and countryside alike. However, the police has some corruption within it. When you consider that the average Bangkok police officer is on £7000-8000 - they make a lot of there money through fines, traffic offences, scams, etc. The government itself (since being rid of Shinawatra) has made many possitive steps and is serving the country well (mainly thanks to Vejjajiva). However, sorting out the corruption of the police will take a lot longer and may not ever be fully successful.

[ReverseFlight]

Very sad to hear of this when their PM is working so hard to woo visitors to their kingdom, to the extent of personally appearing on an advertising campaign being splashed over the internet.

It's not the first time I've heard of scams at BKK. Another favourite one is a businessman arrives on an international flight and proceeds to declare his dutiable goods for bonding. The first customs officer says it's OK and waves him through - but before the businessman exits the customs hall, another officer pounces on and detains him for not paying import taxes, and on top of that they impose a hefty fine with threats of imprisonment, until even more money is paid over to keep the officers happy.

Thailand is a great place to visit but it is unfortunate that a few individuals spoil it so badly.

[mingalababya]

And beware of the Taxi Meter scam as well. I was in transit at Bangkok just last week and caught a taxi to a well known down town hotel where I've stayed many times before. The trip usually costs me 250 baht using Metered taxis, but on this particular occasion, the taxi meter started going up quicker than what I perceived as normal and the journey ended up costing me double at 500 baht. I made this trip twice that day (went there again to pick up a friend later that evening) and the latter trip cost me the expected 250 baht. It confirms that the first driver had a scam meter in his taxi. He tells me he only does taxi fares to and from airports, probably so that foreign passengers taking his taxi wouldn't be as aware as a local person about the correct fares.

[Flap 5]

British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists - Thailand Forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/British-Couple-Fights-Bangkok-Airpo-t276538.html)

[Desert Diner]

The video and King Power's version are here:

King Power International Co., Ltd. (http://www.kingpower.com/2009/popup/pop_case2.html)

They state thier security followed Mr. Ingram to toilets, after which they found the wallet in a bin in front of the toilets.

Difficult to tell one way or the other about the wallet.

Best thing is just to avoid King Power, it seems to have become a lucrative industry of catching shoplifters from their shops.

[Lantern10]

It's a shocking story. I thought people were entitled to feel safe in an international Airport. Will be flying into BKK this weekend but will be going nowhere near any of the shops.

Now the danish embassy also warns agains the King Power/police scam:

It is in danish but is a warning about a danish woman that had to pay 65000 DKK(11000 USD) to police because she showed a lipstick to a friend. Maybe she took the lipstick across the shop border. It is not quite clear

Here is a google translation:

Danes warned against airport police in Bangkok

Published 20.07.09 kl. 14:01 (GMT+1)

Be careful if you shop in stores in the international airport in Bangkok. You risk being arrested and charged of corruption of Thai airport officials.

That is the warning from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok, who knows a young Danish woman who recently had problems at the airport.

"Be careful with the stores where there is open space, and it seems that you can freely move around," says Mads Beyer, who is deputy head of the embassy in Bangkok, to DR News.


Claims for money


He says that the woman had taken a mascara or lipstick, and would show it to a fellow passager, who was just nearby. Without knowing it the unfortunate woman crossed a shop invisible border and was snatched by the police.

"The police who carried out the arrest, and a translator seemed very aggressive and let know that they must have a lot of money to help," says Mads Beyer, adding that the police clearly expresses that it can be a lengthy and difficult process if you do not choose to pay, says deputy head of DR News.

The embassy does not want to give details about the case, but according to BBC News has more visitors every month problems with the police at the airport.

Two British passengers were among others threatened that they would be thrown directly in the notorious Bangkok Hilton prison, where they had to wait two months before the case was handled, if they did not pay 65,000 kroner to the police and an interpreter to get " help "in this case ..
Woman convicted of shoplifting

The Danish woman who was taken with makeup in hand, was convicted of shoplifting.

The embassy does not want to say hviken punishment she received, but Mads Beyer says that the typical punishment is a fine of 300-400 Danish kroner, and that it could two years of conditional imprisonment.

Beyer urges people first and foremost to take care not to cross a border store with something in his hand. Will is taken, the tourists refuse to give in to threats from the police, whose officers require bribes.

- If people in trouble, it would be a good idea to contact the embassy. We are available to help when there are unpleasant things, "says Mads Beyer.

- I can not guarantee that you do not get an unpleasant experience and a fright. But we are in a legal community, which ceteris paribus will have a trial. And we urge them to not be true to help to contact his embassy.

The Danish Embassy will now make contact with embassies from other EU countries to see how big the problem is and what we might do about it

Source (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jp.dk%2Frejser%2Fstorby%2F article1759143.ece) (in Danish language)

Earlier story: British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists
Two tourists were held by an airport gang until they paid up £8,000:

[Desert Diner]

Here is a more detailed account of the scam:

£10,000 for eye shadow at King Power?- The Bangkok airport scam at Andrew Drummond (http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/06/28/809/)

[raffele]

On the King Power website they have three statements and three CCTV extracts in connection to the British case, an Irish case and a Malaysian case. It's interesting how the store security are able to clearly identify the suspects and see that they definitely put items into their bags/pockets as the footage is at best hazy, and at worst not clear. It does appear in one or two of the cases that there is suspicion around whether the item was taken or not.

I suppose the easiest thing to do is to not visit duty free, or if want to cross the threshold, don't take your hands out of your pockets!

[Xeque]

From todays Bangkok Post:
Bangkok Post : Sohpon acts to prevent airport scams (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/149833/sohpon-acts-to-prevent-airport-scams)
Pretty swift action but not surprising given the precarious state of the tourist industry here.
All airport 'duty free' is a scam anyway. It would help if there was more competition for King Power, who hold the monopoly at Suvarnabhumi. If the embassies recommended that their citizens use the down town emporiums (Siam Paragon and the like) then they would get a much better deal and no worries about being falsly accused of shop lifting.

[ZFT]

Pretty swift action Not really. This has been going on for months and has been a hot topic on local websites for months too.

Even the BBC reported it initially last month.

[Xeque]

You're right. I just looked up the incident on one of the local forums. It was dated June 28. This incident began on April 25 and ended 5 days later when the couple were 'released' and allowed to travel. Why has it taken so long for the story to come out?

[Basil]

Apart from bringing this to the top again, there are still tales of dishonest and violent taxi drivers in Bangkok.

[ZFT]

Basil,

1) Why bring this to the top? Are you stating the King Power scams are starting up again? Nothing has been reported locally for months maybe even years.

2) Just where are these tales of violent taxi drivers? Considering the size of this city and the amount of taxis, incidents with foreigners are few and far between. Dishonest? Not really. The odd one tries on the "meter not working" scam. If it's not reading 35 Baht when you get in, just get out again and jump in another one, there are so many available that you won't have to wait too long.

This is still one of the most cost effective, taxi friendly cities around .

[PAXboy]

The reason that this has come back to the top is that - for some reason - the topic resurfaced on the BBC web site and started getting lots of views. So it APPEARED to be new news, unless you looked at the date. It took me a minute to realise that it was old news.

[Basil]

Some bedtime reading upon return from The Queens' Castle ;)
Taxi scams, Bangkok - Warnings or Dangers - VirtualTourist (http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/Thailand/Central_Eastern_Thailand/Bangkok-1445238/Warnings_or_Dangers-Bangkok-Taxi_scams-BR-1.html)
Bangkok Warnings or Dangers - Travel Safety Tips - VirtualTourist (http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/Thailand/Central_Eastern_Thailand/Bangkok-1445238/Warnings_or_Dangers-Bangkok-TG-C-1.html)
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportPDF.aspx?cid=10563

[ZFT]

OK Some scammers, (unfortunately as just about everywhere) although as I posted earlier, if you ensure the meter is on and reading 35 Baht, that problem's resolved, but where all are these violent taxi drivers?

[Anansis]

When we were in the taxi, he quoted me a price of 200 baht! I actually want to bargain with him, if not successful left the taxi. But seeing the tired look of my wife and young daughter, I decided to pay the quoted price as it was still not "extortion" price. I guessed the trip was around 150 bahts based on the very bad traffic jam to the hotel.
Read more: Taxi scams, Bangkok - Warnings or Dangers - VirtualTourist (http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/Thailand/Central_Eastern_Thailand/Bangkok-1445238/Warnings_or_Dangers-Bangkok-Taxi_scams-BR-1.html#ixzz1pg1RZxyO)

200 Bath? Really? 200 Baht equates to around £4. Four Quid. To cross a world city in the middle of rush hour. You can barely enter a taxi in London for that price. This poster is getting his knickers in a twist for the sake of a quid. The only victim of extortion here is the taxi driver.:ugh::ugh:

I've never seen or heard of a violent taxi driver in Bangkok and I know a fair number of people there. However, I have seen many an expat haggle with locals over pennies only to later blow a fortune on imported beer. Very sad :sad:

[750XL]

Urgh....

Why would you pay above average prices for a taxi / tuk tuk ride when there's no need to? You wouldn't allow an airline to charge you an extra £50 for no reason so why pay an extra quid etc for a taxi?

[Tableview]

However, I have seen many an expat haggle with locals over pennies only to later blow a fortune on imported beer. Very sad

The most unpleasant incident I've seen in many visits to BKK was in a bar where a very ugly and overweight Englishman sat down for a beer and was then joined by a Thai girl. They chatted for a few minutes and she ordered a drink. A few minutes later he decided he didn't want her company and decided to pay for his drink and leave. I heard him loudly and obnoxiously refusing to pay for the girl's drink and (rightly I suppose) saying that he hadn't asked her to join him. The cost of her drink was the equivalent of about £2 and when it became clear that things were going to get unpleasant I suggested to him that he should pay for the drinks and then leave. He refused even when the barman warned him 'you get trouble'. A few seconds later the biggest Thai I've ever seen walked in, followed by two policemen. He paid!

[Anansis]

I totally agree with you 750XL. However I would respectfully suggest that there is a big difference between being overcharged £50 by a corporate institution and being quoted £1 more than the probable cost of a journey driven by a self employed taxi driver in a poverty stricken country.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's easy to let the large denominations distort your perception of the value of money in countries such as Thailand (the quote above being a classic example). When people talk about 'taxi scams' and 'extortion' they are often referring to sums of money which are tiny in the grand scheme of things. 50 Baht is nothing to an expat or a tourist.

In any case, it's much better to negotiate a fare in advance in Bangkok anyway. That way you know the driver is going to get you to your destination as quickly as possible rather than spending ages navigating back streets to 'avoid traffic' (whilst conveniently running up the meter...:E). They don't tell you that in the guidebooks...

The allegations about BKK duty free are extreme but there is nothing to suggest that those practices are still going on.

[Metro man]

Why would you pay above average prices for a taxi/tuk tuk ride when there's no need to? You wouldn't allow an airline to charge you an extra £50 for no reason so why pay an extra quid etc for a taxi ?

Exactly, as soon as they see a white face the price jumps. I am quite happy to pay the GOING RATE for something, I refuse to be taken advantage of because of a perceived ability to pay more than a local.

I've refused to get into five taxis, one after the other because the driver wouldn't use the meter. This sends a message that not all foreigners can be taken for a few extra baht, the more of us that refuse to be exploited, the better for everyone.

The taxi situation in Phuket is even worse, a mafia controls the trade on the main tourist spot of Patong beach. Metered taxis aren't allowed to pick up there and the minimum charge is B200 to go around the corner in a four wheeled tuk tuk, which rapidly escalates for any distance.

The opening of the airport rail link and BTS sky train was one of the best things to happen for visitors to Bangkok. Take the express line from the airport, 17 minutes and B150 return into town.

[Load Toad]

It's never, to me a question of paying a bit more money; give me a smooth, as fast as legally possible journey & I'll happily pay a tip. But I hate being ripped off - plus - any driver that will try to skim you like that may also be the type of driver to do something far worse. I had a boss once who was taken into a rather unlit, dodgy area at night by a taxi from an airport (CGK) and a 'tip' was demanded with menaces.

Likewise I don't mind paying drinks for bar girls -but I don't want to buy a girl as drink & then be presented with a bill for an extortionate amount because I'm a gwelioh / farang / ang moh / matt selah / lao wai &c

[Metro man]

I find it strange that whilst a taxi driver may refuse to use the meter for a journey, he will insist on paying the pump price when refueling his cab.

Never yet come across a driver who would allow a petrol attendant to cover the meter and simply pay what was asked.:hmm:

[Anansis]

Metro Man:

Okay I'll bite. You write in your first post that you are "quite happy to pay the GOING RATE (sic) for something" then in the very next paragraph describe how you've "refused to get into five taxis, one after the other because the driver wouldn't use the meter". Clearly then you were not offering the going rate!

The minimum wage in Bangkok is 300Baht/day (£6). Think about that next time you take a 45 minute taxi ride in rush hour traffic for a meter rate of 100Baht. Think about how much of that fare goes towards paying for the car and fuel and how much ends up in the drivers pocket. Not very much.

Metered taxi journeys in Bangkok are so cheap that even in the best conditions they barely offer a level of income which cover drivers overheads. Throw some chronic gridlock and monsoon rain into the equation and some fares to certain parts of the city at certain times of the day are literally not worth drivers taking. So they don't. They either refuse your custom outright or they try to negotiate a fare which is worth their while (in much the same way that a London cabbie might if you ask him to go south of the river). Typically I'll negotiate a fare which is comparable to what I'd have paid with meter plus tip anyway. I know that if the drivers happy with the fare he's going to get me to my destination quickly with no detours. You may agree with this, you may disagree; that's entirely up to you. However I don't think it's accurate to label it as a scam or extortion. What Load Toad describes at #26 is extortion. I've never heard of anything like that happening in Bangkok.

Supply, demand, and making more money than you spend. Simple tenets of free market capitalism my friend. I can assure you that it has nothing to do with your "white face"- I have ethnic Thai friends who can testify to that.

The perception of bar/taxi scams etc in Bangkok is much worse than the reality. I think this is unfortunate because it gives many first time visitors warped preconceptions about Thai people (who I've generally found to be some of the most sincere, friendly and honest people that I have ever met). This can really impact on peoples experiences in the country which is why I feel it so necessary to vehmently advocate my opinion. Yes, it's true to say that you do have to keep your wits about you in Bangkok. Perhaps more so there than in other cities. But many stories people hear are urban myths. As I wrote above, when people talk about 'scams' or 'extortion' in Bangkok they are often referring to situations which lack malice or coersion and involve amounts of money which are tiny.

You wouldn't allow an airline to charge you an extra £50 for no reason so why pay an extra quid etc for a taxi ?

Not a fair comparision really. But in any case we do allow airlines to charge us extra for no reason. The price of flights is set by the market. A sector which costs £750 a week before Christmas will often cost less than half that a month later. The only reason for this is the airlines ability to get awsay with it- the cost of operating the plane hasn't changed.

[ZFT]

Anansis

Okay I'll bite. You write in your first post that you are "quite happy to pay the GOING RATE (sic) for something" then in the very next paragraph describe how you've "refused to get into five taxis, one after the other because the driver wouldn't use the meter". Clearly then you were not offering the going rate!

Metro Man is 100% correct in refusing. No Thai (or resident) would ever accept a local journey without it being metered or with the meter correctly reading 35 Baht upon commencing the journey. The idea that the fares for local taxi trips have to be 'negotiated' is completely wrong, in fact if I even believe it is against the regulations.

It is recognised that the taxi drivers are having a difficult time and fares are rising quite soon, not the 35 Baht initial fare, but the per KM and per minute rate whilst in traffic, somewhere between 8% - 12% dependent upon conditions.

Even so, taxis here are still very affordable and I still maintain that the vast majority of the drivers here are honest and I still have yet to hear of violence being an issue which was where this thread started out from.

[Metro man]

I can assure you that it has nothing to do with your "white face"- I have ethnic Thai friends who can testify to that.

Have you ever come across dual pricing ? ie one price for the locals and another for the farangs. Visit Madam Tussauds or Siam Ocean World in the Siam Paragon shopping center and white faces are charged more.

I have made countless trips to Thailand over the past twenty years and am aware of many of the local scams tried out on tourists, ranging from the jet ski scam (pay $$$ for damage you caused whilst hiring it) to the "free" shows at the upstairs bars in Patpong.

The scammers in Thailand are without doubt the smarmiest con artists you will ever run into. So why do I keep returning ? Beautiful country, amazing food, 5* at 2* prices. I'll be going back in a couple of weeks when I'll be:

Getting dental work done at 1/3 of Western prices.
Having clothes made to measure at a similar discount.
New glasses made at 2/3 of home cost.
Staying in a resort town with daily spend on accommodation and food of about the price of a decent lunch for two in Paris.

As an experienced visitor I know I might be charged a bit extra than a local on one or two things but I'm not going to end up with a rip off bar bill or find I've brought a lady boy back to my hotel by mistake.:E

Anyone going for a visit needs to Google "Thai scams" beforehand and keep their wits about them at all times.

[reynoldsno1]

I travel to Thailand every year, and have family there. The only problem I have ever had with a taxi driver anywhere in Bangkok is a refusal to take me because the journey was too short - even that has been fixed at the local shopping mall with a cab rank where it is mandatory to take any fare.

When meters became compulsory a few years ago, the overall cost of journeys actually dropped. The majority of taxis are leased by the drivers (the green & yellow ones used to be owner operated, but now I'm not so sure) on a daily basis. It's a real grind to make a baht ....

[wiggy]

I still have yet to hear of violence being an issue which was where this thread started out from

It happens. Isolated case I'm sure but a few years back a colleague of mine was hospitalised by a BKK tuk-tuk driver following an argument over a bill.

[ZFT]

Wiggy,

Tuk Tuks are not taxis as we know them. They are unmetered and basically unregulated. Unless you are a Thai speaker then they are the biggest rip off going.

Thais and Thai speakers use them in their daily lives and they are a very cheap (10 -20 Baht) means of local transport but the tourist is a prime target.