Eaglejet Airlines

[mjboeve]

Hello,

does anybody know where pilots are going to fly when they do the Eaglejet Airbus hour building program?

In an email from them they say: Europe,Southeast Asia or Pacific.
Does anybody know some company names.

[Kirks gusset]

Interesting!! I work with BA and I don't think you will find any Eaglejet guys here, perhaps you mean BMI. Also they never use Cathay, as Cathay only train their own guys. With respect, I would check the accuracy of the info before posting it..

[Another Old Fogey]

Amazing number of jerks on PPrune - must have little willies...

Back to your question - think about it - if Stefane at EJ published who he has contract connections with, a whole load of PPruners and wannabees would shortcut him and go straight to the airline. Like any other agency, he'll protect his client base as much as possible.

What you have to do is get in touch with Stefane, discuss it with him and if he thinks you are serious, he'll obviously have to let you know who he has contracts with - in my experience, you'd be surprised at the calibre.

Seems "cloak and daggerish", but it does work. Friend of mine did a A320 TR with EJ - training was absolutely first class - major National Carrier using state of the art kit - and Line Training and hour building on a European mid low cost carrier is a dream. Pretty good chance of a permanent job also - after all, you've done 300 hours with them so they know how well you can drive the thing.

Ignore the rubbish you hear about EJ on PPrune - I doubt anybody could be better trained - even by the big hitters like BA - oh forgot, they don't recruit anymore...

Fogey

[potkettleblack]

Ignore the rubbish you hear about EJ on PPRuNe - I doubt anybody could be better trained - even by the big hitters like BA - oh forgot, they don't recruit anymore...

So you reckon Eaglejet training is better than BA eh. Care to substantiate that claim with some rock solid evidence?

[mjboeve]

Thx for the serious answers I will try to get contact with Stefane, and for sure I know not everybody agrees with this way of getting hours, but I guess at the moment it’s one of the few options.

[RunSick]

haha, really sick sense of humor from corppilot 74!!:D

[Another Old Fogey]

Typical PPrune response - when somebody disagrees with your one sided post, go Ad Hominem, go for the jugular and accuse them of being on EJ's payroll!

I'm retired and have nothing to do with EJ or any other TRTO - other than I can recognise a good training regime when I see one. No sense in being coy about the training - my friend was trained by LH for the sponsor airline - I think LH is as good as BA - not better than BA, but as good as.

Fact is that the schools are churning out guys with fATPL's who really don't know one end of a heavy transport aeroplane from another. They have done a few hours in a light twin with basic systems, but really don't get anywhere near being useful until they've got the TR and some hours under their belts.

But at the present time, in this economy, its doubtful that anybody will pay a 250 hr fATPL to get his TR, so like MOL's crew, its safe to assume that training costs will have to include getting the TR.

But even with a TR, they've still only got a few hours of actual heavy jet time, so without the next step of line training, they really haven't advanced much. So distasteful as it is, and the worst recession for a century is distasteful,seems to me they will have to pay for line training if they want to give themselves a fighting chance of getting a job.

Sure it kicks up their costs dramatically, but in reality, the costs of the fATPL are wasted if you never get a job, and there's precious few Airlines willing to hire a TR'd new guy with 40 hours of sim and 3 or 4 in a real aeroplane, so even the cost of the TR is wasted unless you go further and get the 3/500 hours that EJ offers.

Not everybody can afford it, but if you can, I suggest you are a hell of a lot more employable with 300 hours of jet time than without it.

Yes, I know the airlines prefer 1500 hours, and there's lots of those guys around, but if you can impress your training airline in those 300 hours, and you've obviously been trained of their SOP's so don't need to be retrained like the 1500 hour guy, then MAYBE they will offer a permanent job.

Not a great option, but I suggest the only one out there at present. Other option is to sit back, bemoan the state of the economy and drive yourself crazy trying to find a job - but probably not in aviation.

Just my 2 pence!

[EchoBravo]

Don't pay attention to those whom say is useless. Do what you think it's the best way for improving your career...



Regards.
EB

[A10Warthog]

This is nuts, paying and paying, would be better to buy your own damn plane...
I've just lost my job due to this finance crisis, and last thing I can afford now is a typerating...

As you said, more money than brains.

[ford cortina]

Sounds like a bit of Trolling here:{

[LH2]

I have no axe to grind here, but...

Sounds like a bit of Trolling here

Could be, but this Old Fogey chap at least puts forward an argument (debatable as it might be) in a syntactically and grammatically correct way, which is not typical of trolling.

So in that spirit, and purely out of curiosity, regarding this statement:

Yes, I know the airlines prefer 1500 hours, and there's lots of those guys around, but if you can impress your training airline in those 300 hours, and you've obviously been trained of their SOP's so don't need to be retrained like the 1500 hour guy, then MAYBE they will offer a permanent job

I wonder if Mr. OF could explain why an airline would want to fill that position with an employee when that would mean one less slot available for them to fulfil their contractual obligations with the training provider, who keeps sending paying trainees to them (with both training provider and airline making a profit in the process). This point has been raised many times here and it'd be interesting to see a refutation from someone with a diverging opinion who at least can spell (which makes for a welcome change if nothing else :rolleyes:).

As I said, just curious.

[Another Old Fogey]

No I am not a Troll - I've already said I have no connection with EJ - but just somebody, probably much older than you, who has a different perspective to you.

Maybe its age - I'm now 65 so I'm truly independent of the current aviation market but I have personal reasons to follow it closely.

Interestingly, having done my 3r's in the 1950's and 60's, I can also put together a cogent argument - even if you disagree with it - to get get my point across. One look at postings on Pprune will illustrate, if nothing else, a decline in written English!

Look at the facts:

1. There appears to be one airline recruiting low hours guys at present - FR - but its a strange outfit and apparently runs and recruits at one man's whim - paying for the loo or standing up on flights - I ask you!

2. Other than that, there's really nowhere else in Europe for a low hours guy to go.

3. FR asks you to pay for a TR and then pays a very low rate until you get 500 hours - all the while, if we are to believe the paranoids out there, waiting to fire students after they get to 500 hours and would move up to a better pay scale.

4. So what is a 28 yr. old to do? Why a 28 yr. old? Well, guys starting in this career in their late 20's have a problem - if this recession lasts a few more years, they may be getting a bit old to sit in a right seat (who wants a 31 yr. old on his first flight in a big shiny jet?) as the Schools will keep on producing fATPL's in their early 20's.

5. So lets look at the rationale to sign up for an EJ scheme.

a. Young 22 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can still wait for the market to improve - so he probably doesn't see the need for an EJ course.

b. Older 28 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can't sit around and wait as "tempus fugit" hits him badly. So what does he do? Well for one, as he's 28, presumably he worked for some time before starting out in this game. So he MAY have a bit of cash left after his fATPL, in which case, he may be prepared to develop his skills further by signing up for an EJ programme.

6. Now if you look at the EJ programmes, you could say, and you no doubt will, that they are a ripoff that leads you nowhere.

But look at it this way - you are already going to have to pay FR for the TR, so the extra over cost for Line Training/300 hours over the TR is not that much - my friend paid in the region of Euros 11,500 for 300 hours in a 320 - a better deal than buying time in a Seneca! The TR was done at a very high level by LH, Base Training was excellent and line flying under supervision was done by very experienced training captains.

7. So what does he get after this is over? Well, he's fully rated and has 300 hours on type - heavy jet, no less. Not enough to wander into the wide world and get a job with many airlines, but better than the guys waiting to find somebody to sponsor their TR or even those guys getting "bumped" by FR into later and later TR courses that may never happen.....

8. You may say that this is an expensive way to do it - but you know, if guys have the funds, what is to stop them. So much depends on the airline you are with.

Just put yourself in that Airlines's mind for a second: they turn over many millions of $ each year, so earning a paltry Euro 11,500 from a student cannot be a serious profit centre for them - and my friend's airline currently has only 2 EJ pilots on staff.

So if they are not doing it for the money, why bother? One explanation is they are doing it because they need pilots and this is an ideal way to try out new pilots on a probationary period.

In other words, "you guys get a chance, over 300 hours, to show us how good you are - if you ARE good, and if we need pilots at the time you finish, then we'll offer a contract - if you don't measure up, then you'll leave us with 300 hours."

9. In my friend's case, the airline has recruited EVERY EJ student they have tried out over the past several years - but as I said, they were trained by LH on the airline's SOP's and did have 300 hours to really get to grips, and "strut their stuff", in the 320 cockpit.

10. Finally, its tempting to see this as the end of an industry as we know it. But you know, that really started many years ago when airlines ceased being run by flying types and the Accountants took over.

One or two EJ students will not destroy the airline industry, any more than the tens of thousands of existing pilots have allowed it to be destroyed to date, and from these student's point of view, it makes sense to risk another Euros 11,500 to give yourself a slight edge over other fATPL's who have just got their shiny blue book but no heavy jet time in it.

Fogey

[ford cortina]

Fogey, maybe you misunderstood me, I was referring to the original poster when I wrote Trolling.
I have no arguement with eaglejet, in fact I am an ex eagle jet pilot on the wrong side of 30, it got me a job.
By the way, that was a very well articulated post.:ok:

[Kirks gusset]

Some varied debate on here, including the normal " don't prostitute" yourself brigade, sadly, there is no going back to the old days of airline recruitment.. after all..why should they. No one has addressed the issue of the "wrong stuff" getting into the system as the previous filters have been by-passed. That aside, the real issue is mitigating the training risk and operational risks of the SSTR guys, hence why the longer hours program tend to work out better. I am usually very pleasantly surprised by the commitment and the complete lack of " I have a right to fly because I paid for it" attitude and wish we could keep more of these guys on, however, the bean counters put restrictions in place that us mortals have to follow. By the way guys. there are other schemes out there, not just EJ... do look deeper:)

[ElitePilot]

I agree with the airlines mitigating training risk however I believe there has been at least one occasion with a European carrier taking on a paid line training cadet and bouncing it down the runway with pax and grounding it. Several more further afield.
It's a fine line in paying to complete a product (ie X amount of hours with passengers) and safety.
This is another debate which will go on forever... First it was frowned on to pay for a TR... This seems to be slowly becoming accepted, now its the line hours debate.... Scary thing is what next??

[Another Old Fogey]

Don't know if it helps, but my friend, who is doing the EJ 300 hour E320 plan, is going to do it in 4 months!

After his Base training, his airline required 60 sectors (each being one flight) of supervised training before the LPC. He did that in about 6 weeks - slightly slow as there are not unlimited training captains available.

With the LPC, he's being scheduled for about 90 block hours a month (20 work days/10 rest days) and some Available or Standby days, so he's actually getting close to 100 hours a month - but it is summer! Flying everything from 1 hour up and downs to 4/5 hour mid range flights.

AOF

[Kirks gusset]

Old Fogey

Your friend did very well to get 60 sectors in 6 weeks, thats 10 per week, which allowing for days off, unless they are very short is about the max you could do anyway.. You mention that the airline required 60 sectors prior to LPC, I gather you mean Line Check,as he would have needed an LPC and OCC before flying any sectors, also JAR requires a minimum number of sectors/hours when converting to a new type, neverless I would say it is very very rare to do 300 hrs in 4 months, even short haul. Apart from LTCs you also need safety pilots and a TRE or TRI for the first few sectors, this all takes time to organise and as such crew should be prepared to wait six months for the 300hrs. The EJ system does work for some, however I am aware of the delays in guys starting, due shear volume of candidates and the fact many programs are " on hold" with the airlines. We must get an enquiry a day from guys with type ratings and no line sectors looking for line sectors, unfortunately capacity is short and outstripped by demand. My advice would be to keep prepared, up to speed tech knowledge wise and if required but some sim if its been a while since the LST, otherwise you may get back tracked when you start line training. Has anyone actually got a start date for the EJ 500hrs A320 or is this still subject to big delays?

[jet.man123]

Think it used to be with Air Asia but they don't allow it any more neither do Lion Air.. so no idea..why don't you just ask EJ?

[GBB]

gl2651,

You say: "dont hate the players, hate the game"
Hmmm, I have to say that you are very wrong when it comes to atp rubbish.
Imagine what would happen if once ATP scheme was created and NOBODY would sing up for this bull $hit? They would shut down very quick.
What would all the operators do? Say... OH f**k we cant find any pilots with TR + time on it, lets shut down our operation?
No, they would simply look at tons of applications they have, invite people to their interviews and selection process and provide them with TR and salary to fly their planes!
The problem is when people decide to become a comercial pilot over a night, because they where surfing the net and bumped into some shiny FTO website. "become a B777 pilot in 18 months, get your wings, today amsterdam - tomorrow singapore + as a bonus you will get as much pu$$y as you wish to"
After spending loads of life savings or bank money and realizing that they not even good at it, they will go and pay more, to get "more experience" and at least try to cash back on their "investment" one day.
Right now the situtaion is bad for everyone, but once things turn around, their will be airlines screening pilots, the thing is that only good one will get the good jobs, and the rest will go and pay to get "more experience" to be "ahead" of others or start with the "little" jobs.
There is alot of kids out there that never worked in their life and do not know how hard it is to make any money, take care of your self, and make a decent living standards for your close one. (they live in a kids world, where parents take care of everything)
The truth is that 99.9% of people that ever worked and get payed for it, would NOT EVER work for free! Let alone paying some company to work for them. (some like to call it, "getting required experience" these days)
Im sorry for all of you that expected to get a job on shiny jet right after your training, did you ever try to find out anything about avaiation sector your self before spending all this monye, or you just liked what your FTO was telling you.
We all know that singing up for such as schemes is very wrong, every single one of us knows that. Some of us just like to think that its ok, I have no other choice, just so they can feel better about it.

[BigNumber]

If you can afford it ( or source the money ), I would still definitely buy some hours on type.

The hour building might even prove rewarding and enjoyable once accepted as a necessary evil. ( you might even hook up with those girls you mention! )

Ultimately it's a personal choice, no FATPL needs to be ridiculed irrespective of their chosen course of action. Pro or against these schemes.

I happen to believe that the market has changed and 500 hours minimum on type is absolutely required to get paid work.

Enjoy!!!

[GBB]

BN,

The market has changed you say?
So tell me what would happen to the market if NOBODY would pay for such rubbish schemes? All the operators would go bust because there would be no pilots with TR and time on it?
Please give me a break.
The real reason is that there is too many kids and impatient people out there that want to fly big jets ONLY and fly it right after their training.
They simply dont want to wait, they wanna "jump the queue", take a shortcut, thinking that buying TR with some time on it is going to help them.
Other will do it because they simply suck in sim, have no people skills, and dont stand a chance at selection against others. (so they simply decide to pay more and "get ahead" in the game... :ugh:
You said that if you have the money its ok... but didnt you have to work to get that money?
Please tell me, how many years is it going to take for somebody to get a return on 60-80K traning + the money they going to spend on TR and hours on it? (WITHOUT any job guarantee)
Imagine how much longer its going to take when you actually have to pay all this money to the bank.
Im sorry but people that sing up for these schemes simply need to get back to primary school to gain some knowledge on BASIC mathematics.
People that created these ATP schemes are simply bunch of liars that dont give a damn where you gonna end up once you part with your money, so dont be stupid and dont sing up for this rubbish, unless you are one of the people mentioned above and you will do it anyway. :yuk:
What will come next? Companies telling you that their minimums are 1000-2000 on type and if you got your TR with 300h is ok, we will take you but you will have to work for free or pay them (doing revenue flights) till you get required time... ?
Some people need to grow a spine and some balls, otherwise you will simply be used and abused. :*

[Another Old Fogey]

Isn't it interesting that we've had GBB and Antonov back again heaping abuse on legitimate questions.

Gentlemen, we know your views - you don't have to repeat them ad nauseum. Particularly so when there are folks who are trying to get the benefit of other's experience and you come in with your bullying, insulting posts. Do you seriously believe that anybody will be changed because of your ranting?

Are you guys for real anyway - do you actually fly, or is this just a joke for you? If you do fly, why not give at least a hint in your Public Profiles of what you do and where you do it.

AOF

[F117A]

Could not have said it better myself .. Who thinks that a type rating and the odd 400hrs on type is enough to find a job.. think again.. Guys these companies are robbing you and the airlines are profiting from this. Has anybody had a look at the requirements lately and the type of contracts.. We need to have patience and these schemes are only making things worse for everybody. But my post and guys like me is not enough.. action somehow needs to be taken.. Like cutting all of these advertisments.

[The Mixmaster]

Agreed...I'm frankly amazed that pprune had a banner advert for ATP scheme recently, esp when you consider some of its moderator's views. Thats "business"...sigh

[antonov09]

Their a disgrace to aviation.

[BigNumber]

There is a good amount of passion in this debate.

But it is a debate; with 2 sides, BOTH voicing relevant supporting arguments.

To be clear, I am no fan of these schemes, however they are packaged and sold.

That said, a new blue licence has a finite 'shelf life'. Each month yet more licences are issued and more desperate wannabes join the job chase. 'Turn Key' crewing solutions are 'vogue' and agencies need minimum experience levels, to wit, the 'magical' 500hrs.

BMI will provide very high quality training to their 'paying guests', is it ridiculous to suggest that folks will be stronger pilots with their help than without it?

Anyone that retains the 'moral high ground' has my sincere respect; as do those that follow these schemes in an attempt to better their employment chances and skill set.

[jet.man123]

I hear some of the middle east outfits are now running with these schemes, it's an outrage, we should stone the management, burn the planes..or we could just evolve and hope the cost savings this gives airlines is sufficient to keep the industry alive and kicking, don't worry about the pay to fly guys, they will be on the payroll soon enough and that removes the problem! What would help is if the banks made funding available for more guys to do the schemes and the airlines guaranteed the loans.. or would that not be fair either?

[Another Old Fogey]

I agree with you, Big Number - I'm no fan of these schemes, BUT I am pragmatic - I'm a Yorkshireman so I know when to call a spade a spade!

Read my earlier posts - when I joined BOAC as a Cadet, I landed on easy street - but that was in the 1960's! Its very different now, so I really do think you have to change with the times and live in this world, not a nostalgic world that might/should exist (my wife accuses me of living in the past quite enough!).

In an ideal world, the airlines would re-instate Cadet programmes and train their own crews - but as I said in an earlier post, in this world the Accountants have taken over and that isn't likely to happen. (can you see MOL changing and respecting his pilots?)

So new entrants are faced with really only 3 options, at present - go to Ryanair, with all that entails, compete against "n" thousand other guys who have a shiny blue book and 0 jet time or pay for Line Training.

There is always a 4th option, of course - do nothing and sit on your bum, but with individuals as driven as pilots (you wouldn't get your ATPL G/S unless you were driven) many will not take the 4th option so they throw themselves at the other 3 options.

Each option is legitimate - it depends on your own circumstances. But I resent the rudeness of this Board and such that every time somebody voices an opinion that Option 3 may suit him, he gets howled down by the Antonovs and others. It is disrespectful to people seeking genuine help and assistance from fellow aviators.

When GL2651 posted yesterday, he was asking for help - I see no reason to heap abuse on him when its safe to assume he does know that there is a vocal group of folks who don't agree with his question - but there are also others who understand why he asks it and try to help.

As I've said, I have a personal interest in this issue as I have a friend doing the EJ scheme at present - hence, I check in on this Thread to see what is happening. This is why I post when I think there is excessive bullying of people who simply want to find out their options and make their own decisions - not have Mr. Antonov make them for him. Again, I repeat - I have nothing to do with EJ and am not a shill for them.

Fogey.

[antonov09]

Okay then "Mr Fogey" you tell me if this is right. I call in for work next week and my airline tells me that they dont have much work for me. I later find out that theres an EJ guy doing the routes Im doing because he is paying to sit where I get paid to sit. Imagine that happened to me. Would you lose any sleep over it? Doubt it. Would I lose sleep over it ? yes Would my kids lose sleep over it ? well yes because they might not be going on a holiday this year or they might not get all the things they would like to have. Would their mother lose sleep over it? Well yes she would because she might be wondering how shes going to pay everything on her own. These schemes have a knock effect on people who have got where they have got because they did it the honest way.Theses schemes treat jets like rollercoasters. This is serious business where people have to live and provide. Its not a game. Surely you can appreciate that.

Now you tell me "Mr Fogey" is it right ? :(

[GBB]

Fogey,

Call it whatever you wish to, but we all know the facts...
Times are hard for everyone right now, but some think they are "smarter" and can get ahead by paying to work.
You NEVER $hit where you eat, or would like to eat in the future!
Did some of you really believe that by spending 30, 40 or 50k more you going to do your self a favour??? :ugh:
Do you really think that any good airline give a damn about your TR + 300h?, no they DONT! Stop listening to all this BS from ATP schemes.
When I hear that such as Etihad, Fly Dubai and others are going to interview them beacuse the ATP got connection, I really dont know if I should laugh at people that believe them or maybe cry for them. :confused:
Have some self respect and dignity!

[LH2]

Do you really think that any good airline give a damn about your TR + 300h?, no they DONT!

Which is why you can expect people to slam yet another 30K on the table for 300 more hours? :E

Got to admire whoever came up with this idea :}

(Mind you, they probably copied it from F-1.)

[antonov09]

I have been pulled up on spelling before. I think we LOSE sleep dont we? You are a little mixed up on the spelling of LOOSE and LOSE are you?

I am not the only one on this thread that feels the same. I would argue that the majority of this thread agree with GBB and myself about this nonsense. So I would argue why dont you get off this thread if you cant put some substance into a perfectly legitamate debate. But yet I think to myself how could you after that last post?:E

[antonov09]

With all due respect you sound like the "wannabe". Im not your "mate". And I dont have any "mates" on this forum. They are just posters that have the same view as me. I would suggest perhaps you argue with Evian about the price of bottled water . Because the argument you put forward to me and all other posters has about as much substance.:D

[Penguin68]

To the junior Scargillites on here foaming at the mouth about PFT/PFJ ... as John Lydon put it: "unlucky you ... well boo hoo". Your demeanor is unlikely to help you get or keep ANY professional job. The game has changed. You didn't see it coming before you borrowed 80-100k to become a 200 hour wonder? - oh well you now have a nice shiny financial darwin award on the mantlepiece to show what great judgement you have. Perhaps you were handicapped by being educated in the GCSE era. You have done nothing that gives you the RIGHT to a job and if someone else can out-compete you for the job you want that's just too bad. Want to bleat about getting the job on merit? What leads you to assume you are a better pilot than people who paid for a TR+500 deal? - you know NOTHING about them.

When the dust settles on this economic clusterf*ck PFT/PFJ will be the only show in town - and you can bet that Eireflot's PFT/SSTR will become PFJ - you think O'Leary won't do that ... or that SleazyJet and others won't follow? There will only be 3 ways to get in:

1. Join the RAF - the sensible route. Would they take you little Scargills? - no chance unless its to test a forward airstrip for landmines the hard way.

2. Be a Tarquin/Araminta ... i.e. daddy has a bottomless wallet to fund your training and PFJ and/or golfs/sails with Willie Walsh/The Bearded One

3. Do something else until you have a cash pile big enough to fund training AND get 1000+ hours via PFJ or just rent a Seminole for however many months it takes to get them. And when you finally get there be prepared to live with the fact that the T&C are no better than a train driver's because there are plenty of other would-be career changers like you so supply exceeds demand in the new, smaller airline industry.

Meanwhile lots of late-noughties vintage low-hour wonders will be washing cars or working at Mickey D's with lapsed qualifications and bankruptcy looming. They have 40 years left to work on another career. To those in that situation who don't come here and rant, I feel genuinely sorry for you. To the Scargillites ... ha ha bl**dy ha :E

[I'm Off!]

Pay to fly schemes = a cancer on the arse of professional aviation.

End of.

[Mister Geezer]

I heard a British accent using a Royal Air Maroc callsign today at Tripoli. I just felt sorry for the poor bugger who has spent all that money and it will probably achieve very little in these tough times that we are in. Why oh why oh why...... :ugh:

[MCP]

Well, RAM might be explained by extensive use of adhoc wetlease solutions. I've personally done MAK-ORY-MAK several times over the last months and I'am definately not in a pay scheme..

[RoyHudd]

RAM have a number of pay-to-work parasites at the sharp end of their a/c. Rather worrying from a number of perspectives, safety included, and more than worrying from an ethical standpoint. I do hope these silly folk paying to do another's job find no gainful employment in the future. I suspect they will not, as interviews will expose these people. There is a great deal of antipathy towards pay-to-work pilots when it comes to recruitment for a permanent job, even among those senior bods who will happily use the same people to keep their budgets low in tough economic times.

[mikehammer]

Mr Hudd,

Much as I wish you were right, it seems apparent that two of the major airline employers in the UK, namely Ryan and Easy, are focussed on pay-to-fly "parasites", as you put it. A quick read of the Easyjet Holding Pool thread on Terms and Endearment reveals an insiders viewpoint. This viewpoint is that in the recent past Easy have sought to replace leaving pilots with "dirt cheap" (I quote the poster Norman Stanley Fletcher, an astute chap at the best of times) cadets, and those who have self funded 150 hours with Easy.

The opinion is that the short term future will hold similar policy for pilot recruitment. We all already know that a semi experienced pilot, with say 1300 hours turbo prop time, has no place at Ryanair. Why hire him when they can make money (sorry, cover their own sim costs) out of a 200 hour cadet?

In short, although your opinion that the pay-to-fly brigade will be held in low esteem holds some weight, and there will be certain quarters who always will think so, it seems to me that given 5 years these low hours cheap to hire guys are going to be everywhere, and some of them may even have a decent number of FO hours under their belt having done a few seasons with Easy, been laid off over the winter, then picked up for another season next year. Less discriminatory airlines will surely be tempted to take them on, if there is a need. They'll be rated, trained (not arguing to which standard), and ready to go.

I am not arguing that this is a good thing, not at all. Self interest dictates this to me as a bad thing. I am the aforementioned turbo prop pilot with approaching 1500 hours. I am passed over by the only holiday jet operator employers in the UK currently taking at this time, in favour of 200 hr fresh pilots who haven't put in the time slogging it in the bottom feeder end of aviation like I have. I don't like it one little bit but that's the way it is, or the way I see that it is at any rate.:{

[Kirks gusset]

This is the way of the world now..before, in gin palace days we were "bonded" maybe for 3 years..but it didn't seem to matter as we were not planning on jumping ship.. that was a NO NO, even the companies you might have been going to took a dim view of it for obvious reasons... Now, they have to "pay in advance" .. is this a reflection on the market, the companies, or from a lesson learnt in the past? Well, it doesn't matter because we can't change it! So when you see an ad for "type rated/ non type rated 777 Cpts and FOs" are you going to bin it if you want a job..Of course not,,Why? because there is no alternative, and probably won't be. I am in Europe as I type! and the company is having a major restructure as part of an investment, and guess what.. Reduce the price per cockpit and offer jobs to those willing to pay for ratings is in the agenda, curiously across all the fleet types, we knew it would happen on the feeders but didn't expect it on the long haul.. C'est la vie! chaps Quelle Damage

[fvaz]

Thank you 16AoA for your preserverance and keeping the good info flowing here. I'm also looking EJ to do a 500h A319, so any expirience from people who have done it is very important.

[antonov09]

Heard yesterday a few people had bad experiences with Eagle Jet. Why doesnt that surprise me?:ugh:

[coolhand1]

Mikehammer & 16AoA you're so right ! Plenty of excellent turboprop riders out there trapped in these situation with no career enhancement prospects in the pipeline (even when times are good!), because of seeing god damned wanabees bypassing the queue by enrolling in these pay to fly schemes.
So the only choice left for them is to take the same route with sometimes thousands of hours under the belt.... What a shame !:{

[zakka]

These bull**** programs like Eaglejet should be banned. I can only advice people to stay far away from this nonsense

[RoyHudd]

Imagine being operated on by a "surgeon" who had paid for all his medical training, without selection, who had jumped over selected medical students who could not afford to attend medical school without "self-sponsorship".

A "surgeon" who could afford to be one, not one who was good enough to qualify on merit.

Not very good for those who value their lives.

[Another Old Fogey]

You guys are completely wrong - do you seriously think an airline would compromise its safety standards and reputation to give a substandard pilot, even if he came from EagleJet, a chance?

Since even FR charges for type rating, all EJ does is offer 300/500 hours line training for Euros 12-20,000 - WAY less than the cost of chartering a Seneca and doing that time yourself and, with EJ, you get jet time, not MEP time, and great exposure to airline operations.

In an earlier post, I explained that I thought the EJ programme was actually a form of probationary period - sure you paid for line training and got the hours, but the real benefit was that the airline could see you in action over 300 or 500 hours - an extended form of probationary period. If they liked what they saw, they'd offer a permanent job - if they didn't like the way you flew, then at least you got 300 or 500 hours.

Well, I was right - check back and you'll see I talked about 2 EJ pilots I know doing 300 Airbus hours at a European airline - well, both were offered permanent jobs that will very quickly repay the cost of the line training - probably in less than 3 months as their airline has a good base salary and a reasonable flying pay per hour. After the 3 month period, they will be significantly better off month over month than if they were working for FR, who seem to be the only other employer around, although not, obviously, for the Airbus.

By the way, their contemporaries from their FTO are still unemployed - approaching a year now - whereas these 2 are passing 600 hours of jet time and have permanent jobs flying into major European airports. Who made the right decision? Antonov, Beak, Dick Byrne et al won't agree, but I think I know who got it right.

Fogey