PHILIPPINE AIRLINES managment pilots NEGATIVE STYLE

[optimus prime 2010]

....fllying the juiciest choice flights that are meant for line pilots ... "WE WILL GIVE THEM OVERTIME PAY BUT WE SHALL TAKE THE LONG HNL, LAX, YVR, ETC....SO THEY WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THE PER DIEM AND FLYING HOURS... HE HE HE.... practiced by the bg, bj, st, rp, .... all pal management pilots..:ugh:

.... do they tell you the truth...."OH, EX PAL PILOTS ARE UNHAPPY ABROAD, THEY ARE DYING TO COME BACK AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.... LOOK AT THIS AR FROM GULF AIR, MM FROM ASIANA, TZ FROM EK... heard from the chief of airbus :eek:

.... are they sharp pilots... "YOU SEE, THESE :mad: ZEST AIR PILOTS TRAINED BY THIS EX PAL PILOT WHO WENT TO INDIA, WHAT DO THEY KNOW ABOUT FLYING...ALL THEY DO IS CRASH IN CATICLAN...." heard from the chief of turbo prop :{

.... COMMENTS PLEASE....BEEN TRYING TO LEAVE THIS 'WONDERLAND' :rolleyes:

[9ball]

"YOU SEE, THESE http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif ZEST AIR PILOTS TRAINED BY THIS EX PAL PILOT WHO WENT TO INDIA, WHAT DO THEY KNOW ABOUT FLYING...ALL THEY DO IS CRASH IN CATICLAN...." heard from the chief of turbo prop http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

Which Chief of turboprop said this?

[camper]

wonderland indeed....:}

[Cessna1052]

Optimus,

Juicy flights? - My Optimus, dear it has always been like that in PAL. So, whats the complaining? You think One Autobot leader can change that?

Unhappy Abroad / dying to return to PAL ?- Maybe some are unhappy, but If you ask this bunch of guys, if they have options they will not go back to RP. Maybe some are made-up already, saved enough Millions to enjoy a turn around Cebu or even fly as a Second officer.

Sharp Pilots? - Zest air x 2 Caticlan on a Turbo/ PAL x 1 tacloban + 1 Butuan, And you know what? PAL even used an even more sophisticated aircraft in flight testing a runway overshoot maneuver. That TP chief should shut his mouth up and think even before he speaks.

You been trying to leave ? well, Optimus you havent tried harder. If you must, Transform and roll-out. But, this is just not the right time. Stay put for the meantime, The General with a well executed battle plan wins the war.

Out here, its more than meets the Eye...:}

[pack1]

their truth, they tell. do you not notice that for most management pilots, the world revolves around PAL?

one story is, at the tail end of the pilot exodus and after the significant increase in income offered to pilots, JC, the former a320 cp heard the story claiming that if not for the exodus there wouldn't have been an income increase. and the reply was, P.I. nila. surprised about the pilots abroad unhappy story?

that's why it is good to have a strong challenge from the other side of the fence.

[makocoleta]

me wifey tells me pal does have a few blokes who seem not to discern truth and fiction,.... they do spread word THAT life of yer fellow kababayans are miserable abroad but disagree i would.....especially to the ones i had the pleasure to fly with.

these filipino blokes work hard, do an honest day's work, and pour their hearts in their jobs. they live with their families, and seem content with life(wouldn't you if you had yer family with you???)

what these jokers in pal management are trying to do is simply discourage more exodus...as simple as that... by convincing yer kabayans that it is not good outside the comfort zone...

they spread AND MAKE UP MAKE-BELIEVE malicious rumors about filipino pilots getting sacked, ridiculed, austracized, WHEN IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND....a lot of your countrymen are promoted as CAPTAINS.....

a lot of these captains get promoted in management, support team, instructors(A LOT OF THEM), and administrators...

i think it makes sense...

THEY HAVE TO RESULT TO UNGENTLEMANLY WAYS TO ACHIEVE THEIR OBJECTIVE...TO APPEAR GOOD, LOVELY, VIABLE, WORTHY OF THEIR POSITIONS TO MR TAN...AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS, EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO LIE, CHEAT, MALIGN, AND

SELL THEIR SOULS.....DAMN!!!:yuk:



now lads, would you sell your soul???? don't filipinos believe in do unto others what others should do unto you, what happened to your morals PAL MANAGEMENT TEAM???

[RNAV.CAP]

pal and air philippines are one and the same right? :eek:

so does this jerk-o haruta, kissing bandit, child molester edil.beer..to med.na count?

for me his is the grandest of all liars!! a sore loser, and the biggest back stabber of all...:mad::mad: P.I. MO ED MED

does anyone know why he has never been imprisoned for sexually molesting cabin crew, office mates,:{:{


can he even fly? and doesn't his co hort jo cas say the same....the same fat lard, whose stopmach gets in the way of the flare according to him that is why he cannot flare and make a good landing..!!! and haruta makes him an instructor....what a joke:ooh::ooh:
until now, pilots from SAMA are getting sued, harassed, unceasingly just to show his ugly side that people left him behind....
why is LT even paying this leper 280,000 pesos for sitting in his ass doing nothing....

LOUSY:ugh:

[planestupid]

PAL management will always be the same! Most modern airlines have moved on from the stick and shout mentality in the flight deck and simulator, yet PAL is STILL stuck in the dark ages.
When I left PAL I felt I was taking a risk and took a FO job that paid me SD$10500 a month tax free (75 hours flying). No command for a while, but hey... no more BULLSH.. from PAL. This airline treated me with respect and when command finally came up, they actually supported the Captains.
For those who are unsure of the big move, choose your timing carefully and enjoy how good it really can be.
BTW... what are the wide body captain's take home nowadays?

[makocoleta]

pretty good ps.....they make up to 300t php if they work dem bumms out!

normally at least 200t....

unless me figures are wrong...

sad to say what you said is true...CRM never seems to be fallin in the right place with insecurities of managment wanting to be called sirs and nobles when hard to find some of them are....

the training field is outside that little aquarium...

AND THE REAL TEST IS FOR THOSE WHO MADE IT OUT THERE....

(BAD) pal management knows how to keep the pilots in their little pond:

1. lie to them
2. threaten them
3. make them believe their management are the best pilots in the world:E
4. make them believe the world outside is to be feared
5. and don't teach them everything, don't provide them with the right tools....or else they will know more...and THEN LEAVE


:zzz:

[Cessna1052]

I wonder, where is Optimus prime? he only did a single post and went hiding. I guessed he had his answers.....

Mr. Moderator, its time to close this thread.


Cheers!
C1052

[optimus prime 2010]

9ball
yes it was the chief of airphil, the old man himself who gave that comment....he claims: 'he can land the F50 there...":yuk:(apparrently he was the chief before and he said he can do a better job than all these new hotshots as he calls them....he needs to say something to hang on to his bunch or else they would leave him as well...

Cessna1052
not hiding....just waiting for more replies and researching on some matters.... like you said, and you are right...there are still guys intending to leave(me included) waiting for the right time!! you sound like you are in my list of nice airlines to join...send my regards to jr, and the first airbus380 pinoy...to you of course!!!:ok:

macokoleta
you are absolutely correct. i just found out pinoy pilots in lanka have been promoted, sucess stories in vietnam, singapore and all remaining pinoy pilots in golf air have all been promoted to the left seat and many more in the mid east......another proof pinoys can succeed:) well....contrary to what mr bg of pal airbus says pinoys are bad mouthed abroad....boy, you should hear what his classmates say about him(ass licker, liar, ungentlemanly behavior, traitor, maniac, user......especially the way he puts down his own classmate miss ac, the first woman pilot.....and come to think he was from ateneo....

planestupid
yes the mentality is the same, although some, and i mean some management pilots are really great.... ac, ca, gn....:cool:

RNAV.CAP
abosultely right.....!! apparently he could not hang on to his loyal fleet of 737 pilots and they had to go to sama airlines, all doing very well driving luxury cars and trucks bringing home truckloads of goodies too. :D so he resulted to the usual old technique DESTROYING PEOPLE'S NAMES left and right, especially to the people who left.... :(

pack1
"p.i. nila", well, i could share that sentiment, .... about what they say the pilots are unhappy........., i really do not think so,....some of you expats i heard even own you own private planes..WOW!! not mentioning the mansions you guys build here at home....!!! i agree with you, these self ruling pal management pilots have their little pond to live on....remember rp battling it out with br on the parking lot after rp picks up on the wife of br? apparently, rp likes to pick on women, even on his classmate gl during his training days....hmmm, must be related to bg as well, :oh::eek:


to all
one thing you gentlemen must realize, a lot of pal management pilots have suffered from heart sickness....let me see... i could count at least 5...st, ja, jh, sj, bg(he just does not know what a heart is for) and one more i forget... there must be a relationship being a #@:mad:%$ and a sick heart:ouch:

[optimus prime 2010]

cessna 95

sorry no, b g is not the owner of omni..... he is more evil:sad:

ask planestupid who he is....

[Reedeye]

Butch Cassidy and the Generous Kid :}

[YISTRYKER98]

OR BUTCH THE GENEROUS....

damn..... is this the guy who likes to fly to jakarta, then goes to that sleezy 3 storey building, where lots of drugs, prostitution and danger happens, yet pays around 20 dollars to get a one night bj? and is this the same guy who likes to do his sim in bkk so he can run to mo cherie, and pay 100 dollars for another 16-18 year old cute thai girl to bathe him, give him the works?... is this the same guy guy whose wife is a number expert....computes real fast, was married to before he joined PR, only he had to lie about it and falsify his document, to make him appear single...SO HE CAN BE ACCEPTED IN THE CADET PROGRAM and this wife is rich btw that is why this bg can afford to live in puta fuego and brag when actually it is the wife who supports him...

IS THIS THE SAME LEPER????

[makocoleta]

sounds like him mate! sounds like him alright....mighty damn good in yer front but once you turn yer arse to him, then to damnation he will to you...must be his kind of breeding....:=

[YISTRYKER98]

unless i am wrong in my info.....the boots gonorhea suspended the 2 flt dk for 3 months. now what baffles me is ... report from pax? high and fast? hard landing.

2 over runs, one taxi out of the runway, ..... suspension is not the answer, it is bringing the flt crew up to standard...whether back to the classroom, extensive de brief..etc...

w.t.f..??? this p.o.s. decides to play hardball again... well then, how come in the late 90's with his davao incident ( overrun in taxiway/runway) this b g does not even get a slap in the hand...

damn if you lick ass but damn if you pretend just because you are in managment you cannot make mistakes..

he does not deserve the first name... "emmanuel" is too noble for him...he should be known as boy abunda instead...

[Cessna1052]

It must be Immunity. I remember the time when Regular line Captains get suspended after getting one of their A330 main gear over the grass in Davao's Old terminal Apron. It was a tight right turn to the ramp after an easterly landing. But, Not with Admin pilots who fell on the same trap. :}

[RNAV.CAP]

THAT DOES SOUND LIKE ED MED INDEED.....I HOPE EDONG AND ELGIN READ THIS AND TELL THEIR S.O.B.:mad: FATHER HOW BAD HIS NAME IS IN THE INDUSTRY...

LETS NOT FORGET MISS CATHY B.. OF MINDANAO THAT HE FIRST HARASSED IN HIS FOKKER 50 DAYS.... :ugh: THE POOR GIRL HAD TO RESIGN(DESPITE THE FACT HER FATHER WAS THE MAYOR), IF ONLY HARUTA KNOWS A BULLET WAS EMBEDDED UNDER HIS NAME ONLY TO BE SAVED BY THE MOTHER WHO PRAYED FOR DIVINE INTERVENTION....DAMN THIS BAD WEEDS, IT IS SO HARD TO DISPOSE OF THEM

GUESS WHAT, IT SEEMS MANAGEMENT TOLERATES THIS AMONGST ITS CORE OF PILOTS....

PUT AN GINA MO :EED MED IN A

[jetcruiser]

Ice breaker... keep it up !

We should see lots of this, so when is RP, or ST, or some other assholes turn?

Jc

[jetcruiser]

ED Diaz Rocks !!!! the best PAL admin ever:D

[repapips]

I love this thread....
Keeps you abreast of the goings-on back home...
As well as make you laugh...

keep it going guys! :ok:

[pompei]

geeewhizz so many things said about lucio tan's trash-ted management pilots but nothing has been done to evaporate them ha ha ha i guess will just wait a natural way of getting rid of these ''kup's''.for haruta,gonorhea,kAlbo et al it must be something painfull and slow i foresee......:mad:

[optimus prime 2010]

afjose

thank you for your generous contributions...

LOUSY LOW STANDARD red payMUMO...

can anybody share any information about the history of red pay in pal, ??

REMEMBER HOW HE FAILED HIS CCQ TO 340 AND CRASHED IN THE SIM?? REMEMBER? WHAT A LOUSY CHOICE OF MANAGEMENT PILOT TO PUT IN THE TRAINING DEPARTMENT, HOW CAN PAL CHOOSE SUCH LOW QUALITY TYPE OF PILOT, LOW IN MORALS, STANDARDS, FLYING SKILLS AND BACKED UP BY NO OTHER THAN haruta and bg, how do you spell GONHORREA??
:confused:

ANY FEEDBACK ABOUT THE 2 AIRBUS 330 PILOTS WHO ARE SUSPENDED FOR HAVING FUN IN PPS??

sorry for shouting but seriously, is this how it is supposed to be dealt with??

[jetcruiser]

Optimus Prime ... the great leader:ok:.... pretty sure a Captain in Rank, might even be a Chief , or Deputy or napag iwanang Admin A.K.A. floating admin pilot.

Im just trying to profile you, in terms of your callsign.

Sounds very much like a Management/Admin pilot, who has a big grudge against some of his fellow Admin guys.

Ano ba napag awayan ninyo? Im guessing you didnt get the position that was promised to you.:{

Oh well, you're gooooood.

[optimus prime 2010]

hi jc

wow 747!! you are idol!! imagine, you have flown the biggest aircraft that has dominated this century,...:ok: and you have lots of threads to prove you have been around. maybe someday, i shall still have the gift of wings to soar higher than what i have achieved now.

let us stick to the thread please. sorry, me management? no leader? more of follower;)

[YISTRYKER98]

come to think of it, if you sit in their posts, what would you do... would you go against your pay check?

so, the B J, what is his story with the vp mr BB?:eek:

cant be a girl issue, man this bj is gay....fat and gay!!

[planestupid]

As I always say, it starts at the top.

LT f..ks the CEO up the a..!!
CEO f..ks the VPs up the a..!!
VPs f..ks you up the a..!!
and you get to f..k yourselves up the ass!


PLEASE REFER to PAL organisational Chart!!!

[tsuper]

Hurray for our brave and professional Filipino pilots. I wish I had the guts to curse and rant anonymously at PAL management pilots. It's just too hard to get the courage to curse at someone out here in PPRuNe.

[freezoneunite]

"brave filipino pilots..."

back in our pond in bupac, its a bit boring, we just talk about this dick heads who claim to fame,...when actually they are a shame, .... i agree ... BRAVE COMMANDANTES I SALUTE YOU!!! LET YOURSELVES BE TRUE.....!!!

btw, check out this gay pilot who used to train cadets in singapore, man...he sure has a bad mouth for you guys as well.... rose sales

[Pandayan_Ni_Pandoy]

Wa ha ha ha ha. That was a good one driver!!!!

Irony Definition | Definition of Irony at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony)

[tsuper]

Wa ha ha ha. Thanks Pres FVR Public Relations assistant. Ahe he he. They just don't get it. Some guys just have to click on the link you provided.

[optimus prime 2010]

furlough, find faults, suspend, terminate contracts........ are the solutions for the crisis .... if one intends to stay in power, save his ass, live the lifestyle,\\ :}

sure, a pilot violates minimum criteria for finals, lets save on salary and suspend these pilots... why not...\\:rolleyes:

but then, what if you are on the receiving end, the retiree who still has the second family to feed and his college boy whose CAP was forfeited, or the newly hire who felt PAL was the answer placing a 1.8 million loan only to find himself losing the contract, or the not so guilty pilot who had a lapse of judgement, finds himself losing his job because the verdict is termination, as in bye bye,... think about it if your are in management, ... the hell with them...but, PUT YOURSELF IN THE RECEIVING END...\\:=

just to make my point, why for once can't MANAGEMENT SUGGEST A WIN WIN SOLUTION....\\

LET US ALL AGREE TO REDUCE OUR SALARIES, save our comrades, TIGHTEN OUR BELTS, so everybody keeps their jobs, and EVERYBODY WINS...:ok: and NOBODY loses his/her job!!



then again .... it is just my thought....:{

[batuta23]

can anyone shine some light on how an A340 captain is in so much :mad: after flying a plane that was rumored to have been released by maintenance when there was something wrong with one engine's hydraulic supply?he got the plane to its destination without anything happening on the flight.but now it seems the management doesn't like him to fly anymore.:{. why?

[jetcruiser]

I pity the 340 crews, after all this years of loyalty. :ugh:
Its another story when working for an overseas airline, but come on- nasa pinas ka naman, can't it be a demotion or suspension na lang, at least the guy can still get back in his feet.

[powderkeg]

No doubt about it. He does'nt lick ass and always accomplishes his job. Ed Diaz is principled most of all ! Maybe those PAL mgmt pilots should learn from their junior! :O

[powderkeg]

Yo DM! wanna fly over the fence, believe me its a lot better pay wise, condition, and benefit wise, most of all we are treated here as professionals......:ooh:

[batuta23]

powderkeg a340 dismissal
Yo DM! wanna fly over the fence, believe me its a lot better pay wise, condition, and benefit wise, most of all we are treated here as professionals......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif

its no longer a hard decision for DM to fly over the fence.sadly, it took being blamed for a fault that maintenance caused.what about the airbus that clipped its tail on a hill on approach , the captain got demotion to f/o and is back as captain again. DM never ran into any hill. how does management formulate these penalties? safe to say its not DM's problem anymore. but it can be management's problem if the line crew feel their actions could be heavily sanctioned to (in DM's case) cut off a few millions in retirement benefit.poor move.

[onedelacruz]

Yo DM! wanna fly over the fence, believe me its a lot better pay wise, condition, and benefit wise, most of all we are treated here as professionals......http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif

-----

Can anyone enlighten me on how much do PAL pilots make? Are the working conditions here that bad that pinoy pilots would opt to work abroad?

I just feel concerned for those who are and would like to pursue their dreams of becoming pilots here in the philippines... can anyone describe how is it working for PAL?

[freezoneunite]

sorry, but as per record, during the upgrade of DM to captaincy on 330, he was already showing signs of reluctancy and indicisiveness...that is why em had him do a repeat on a trip to sydney.... IT WAS THE SAME ISSUE, AS TO HOW TO HANDLE ECAM...

mananagement might be harsh but it is correct and accurate...hey, he damaged an engine and caused tremendous passenger discomfort right? if in doubt, follow ecam.. if further, call management thru hf and ask for advise...we have pal radio standing by 24 hours....

termination..well, too many pilots means easy termination\
climb the fence...HA HA,,,,GOOD LUCK...who would hire you if you are terminated besides...rose sales does not think you are worthy anyway, he Has always doubted your ( dm) capacity to decide... :=:=

ed diaz...who is this lic ass alwayS lobbyinig this ed....he was not cool at all, sorry buy he was protecting his ass too.... sorry but he is no good as management as far as i know.... he just protected his skin, he just did wHAT was popular and safe not the decision that WAS RIGHT AND JUST SO SORRY, HE IS A LOSER IN MY BOOK...NEED TO KNOW MORE,.....:ouch:???

[M 0.78]

The Mafia has very clear cut rules that apply to all its members. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences. There are no exceptions.

PAL management is more like the Philippine government. The leadership is corrupt. Those being led are either oblivious to this fact or are resigned to accept the status quo. There are good people all over the organization. If you do your job well and keep your mouth shut, you keep your job. Squawk about the corruption loud enough and you're toast.

Violations of policy can result in harsh sanctions. But if you are well-connected nothing will happen to you and everybody else will be told not to do what you did.

One idiot couldn't get his APU started at an outlying station with no ground support equipment but managed to deplane his passengers, unload the cargo compartments, load them up again, then board the outbound passengers without having to shut down both engines. He still works there.

But then he is a classmate of the fellow who wrote the subsequent notice to pilots prohibiting everybody else from doing the same thing. But everybody else already knew that!

Go figure.

[M 0.78]

Someone with intimate knowledge of that flight told me that the engine lost enough oil during the initial climb that the quantity indicator showed amber X's.

Subsequently, the ECAM required a shutdown. But every time the thrust lever was pulled back to idle, the ECAM disappeared. So they continued across the Pacific with the ECAM playing peek-a-boo all the way. It was mentioned at an equipment meeting that it appeared 15 times.

An A340 captain is supposed have a tiny bit of technical knowledge about jet engines.

50,000 rpm + no oil = trouble. D-uh!

A good used CFM56 costs between 5 and 7 million USD. If the crew collected per diems everyday for about 50 years and saved all of it, they would have enough to buy a cheap one.

[Mysha Da Kat]

M 0.78 - One idiot couldn't get his APU started at an outlying station with no ground support equipment but managed to deplane his passengers, unload the cargo compartments, load them up again, then board the outbound passengers without having to shut down both engines. He still works there.
--------------

Lemme see...

1. Shut down No. 1.
2. Deplane passengers.
3. Start No.1.
4. Shut down No. 2.
5. Unload cargo compartments.
6. Load cargo compartments.
7. Start No. 2
8. Shut down No. 1.
9. Board passengers.
10. Start No. 1
11. Pretend nothing happened.

Is it possible to do this in fewer than 11 steps?

:cool:

[M 0.78]

The current CARs say, with regard to violations:

9.En-route
a. Deviation from clearance or instruction
30 to 90 day suspension
----------------------------------------

Rumor A

Within the last few weeks, a very senior admin pilot departing TAC flew up B462 on the way back to MNL when his ATC clearance was for W9. When he reported over MBT, ATC asked him what he was doing there.

Rumor B

A319/A320 copilots describe a certain ex-A330/A340 admin pilot as "confused" whenever they have the misfortune to fly with him.

Rumor C

This same pilot is re-qualifying in the A330 with the son-in-law of the owner on EQC as his training partner

Can anyone confirm any of these rumors?

[Harutamagan]

How is it to fly for PAL? how much do you get as a 320 FO?

[jamestaylor]

I think he did a great:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: job. No APU A/C AOG how do you get equipment there by boat or C130 only. He should be congratulated.......Well done

[Mysha Da Kat]

Answer this:

If both engines were never shut down at the same time, which checklists should have been used and when?

:ok:

[unruly]

APU Out

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he did a great job. No APU A/C AOG how do you get equipment there by boat or C130 only. He should be congratulated.......Well done

Congratulated??!!!! After risking the lives of his passengers and ground crew by deplaning them with an engine running just beside them? He should be quartered for not having enough common sense!

[unruly]

Checklists

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer this:

If both engines were never shut down at the same time, which checklists should have been used and when?

Uhhmm.....the After Takeoff Checklist?:}

[bisaya]

Violation!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The current CARs say, with regard to violations:

9.En-route
a. Deviation from clearance or instruction
30 to 90 day suspension
----------------------------------------

Rumor A

Within the last few weeks, a very senior admin pilot departing TAC flew up B462 on the way back to MNL when his ATC clearance was for W9. When he reported over MBT, ATC asked him what he was doing there.

Rumor B

A319/A320 copilots describe a certain ex-A330/A340 admin pilot as "confused" whenever they have the misfortune to fly with him.

Rumor C

This same pilot is re-qualifying in the A330 with the son-in-law of the owner on EQC as his training partner


Can anyone confirm any of these rumors?


Rumor A, B and C confirmed. K-O-Y-A-N-G...

[Mysha Da Kat]

Capt's PAQB trick question:

What do you do if your APU won't start at an outlying station with no ground support equipment and you know you won't be able to restart after you shut down?

Answer:

Shut down.

It happened to me once. Maintenance arrived a few hours later with everything that might have been needed to get it started. But by the time the got it running, the entire crew was beyond duty time limitations.

RON!!!

Party!!!

I wonder if it was a mere coincidence that the entire maintenance rescue crew were native either to the province or to the city itself.

(wink, wink)

:ok:

[M 0.78]

Can anyone confirm any of these rumors?


Rumor A, B and C confirmed. K-O-Y-A-N-G...

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make noise?

If any pilot, not necessarily a vp, commits a serious violation of CAR and it is not reported, is safety compromised?


:rolleyes:

[optimus prime 2010]

gentlemen...and ladies

this is why we are category 2...

this is the shame and example PAL MANAGEMENT PILOTS DO

[makocoleta]

g'day lads

sorry but can't seem to figger out who ye yappin' about with the apu shutdown,... mind showerin' this ol fart who this fella was?

am referin' to the one management leavin' the engines a runnin'

[Mysha Da Kat]

You know how Pinoy drivers of cars with diplomatic plates drive like they have diplomatic immunity same as their masters? And how drivers of those big black SUVs with single digit plates think they have the same right to abuse their countrymen as their masters? Well, some non-admin pilots with classmates in high admin positions feel they can commit violations with immunity, just like their classmates.

:ugh:

[Mysha Da Kat]

The story I'm getting is that the flight plan filed by CFD in MNL routed the flight back to MNL via MBT and AL due to volcanic activity near LP.

However, the ATC clearance issued was for the normal route via LP, NGA, and AL. Revised routing via the flight plan route was not requested.

The FCOM requires the MCDU flight plan and the ATC clearance to agree with each other if NAV mode is to be used.

It is apparent that someone set up the MCDU according to the filed flight plan instead of the issued clearance then used NAV mode.

So the flight deviated from FCOM procedures as well as the ATC clearance.

:sad:

[Mysha Da Kat]

makocoleta - am referin' to the one management leavin' the engines a runnin'

Not management, classmate lang ni Koyang. The last one to get in. Maybe they'll make him a line check soon.

:D

[bisaya]

RUMOR A

they were aware of the rerouting but there was a runway change in tacloban and KOYANG activated the secondary flight plan (which was not updated when the ATC clearance was given) without checking the flight plan route or confirming with his crew. excellent CRM i assume?

RUMOR B

but of course you will never get it right when flying with him. an "airbus instructor" who would fault you for flying a managed descent because he claims the FMGS is yet to be perfected by airbus and it is an inefficient way to fly. makes me wonder what FCOM revision he is using now. confusing enough?

[mach.86]

someone deserves some whippin'. what's it gonna be? suspension or termination?

[x_feed]

Sirs,



I'm really suprised and concerned when i read the topics here specially
Sir Mysha Da Kat Post,

Unload and Load the passengers/cargo without GPU/APU...
instead!! using the ENGINE!!!:eek:

Everyone is in "serious danger" (Ground Personnel & Passengers)
Due to FOD and high risk engine ingestion..

and during engine operation, there is a "hazard zone" to know if you are in safe zone or danger zone..


This is the one example of engine hazard zone


http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/x_feed/hazardarea.jpg

[jetcruiser]

Guys flying the Airbus, what is the best answer for this issue? People have been calling people idiots for doing such procedure, Raising safety issues, being dangerous, etc.

So, what really is the best answer?
- will you just divert ?
- will you Shutdown both engines ?
- will you hold and wait til the airport get a GPU?
- will you do the same thing the Capt in question did ?

Lets try to build some answers here. I think this is one good scenario to think about, it can happen to any pilot flying big jets. So, if it does what are we gonna do?

Jc

[M 0.78]

In the olden days, you could get yourself out of minor trouble with ATC by delivering some ice cream to the facility. If you were unfortunate enough to be cited by Manila Tower, you had to climb all the way up to the tower cab. I wonder how much ice cream is required to cover up a major violation like flying up an airway the wrong way without clearance.

[M 0.78]

jetcruiser

Lets try to build some answers here. I think this is one good scenario to think about, it can happen to any pilot flying big jets. So, if it does what are we gonna do?

Jc
-------------------------

The correct answer was already posted by Mysha Da Kat. Shut down.

At that point you would have completed half of your flight assignment. Worry about the other half afterward.

In the A319/A320 FCOM, there is a limitation of 3 APU start attempts followed by a 1 hour interval. The APU is normally started while taxiing in. If it fails to start twice, it's probably a good idea to wait until just before parking before the third attempt. If it still won't start, shut BOTH engines down, let the passengers off, dump the cargo, and wait an hour before trying to start the APU again.

You can use the one hour interval to coordinate with maintenance, local station management, and the like. You should also develop a full contingency plan for your RON just in case the APU is truly inop. Everyone has extra clothes in the bottom of their nav bag per company standard, right?

:ok:

[Mysha Da Kat]

M 0.78 - You can use the one hour interval to coordinate with maintenance, local station management, and the like. You should also develop a full contingency plan for your RON just in case the APU is truly inop. Everyone has extra clothes in the bottom of their nav bag per company standard, right?
--------------------

Station management recently made me and the rest of the flight deck crew get off the plane and RON at an outlying station. Another crew would fly the next leg. By some strange twist of fate, I was the only one with RON clothes! Sure, the old BOM said we all have to bring them on every flight. The new FOM probably says the same thing somewhere. But you never need them, right? Now I never go anywhere, not even domestic flights, without RON clothes. I also bring a jacket on all regional flights north of MNL. It's starting to get cold up there.

:)

[jetcruiser]

Good point guys. I agree on this one, knowing that there is no ECAM about the APU i.e. APU Fault. Shutting down both engines is one good idea. I can only suggest, Ask if the station have a Ground pneumatic carts available so if the APU doesnt start you can still do a Batteries ONLY start.
Of course, I wouldnt mind a RON, but if you're tight on schedules and wanna get back home, its something to think about.

How about if its a Night Ops? would you do the same shutting down the engines? No wrong answer, all may be correct, i just want to know your thoughts.:ok:

Jc

[Mysha Da Kat]

jetcruiser - Ask if the station have a Ground pneumatic carts available so if the APU doesnt start you can still do a Batteries ONLY start.
--------------------------

Actually, there are a couple of APU-related ECAM warnings/messages.

How do you do a batteries only start on an Airbus using a ground pneumatic cart?

[Mysha Da Kat]

jetcruiser - Of course, I wouldnt mind a RON, but if you're tight on schedules and wanna get back home, its something to think about.
------------------------------------------------------

That's probably exactly what that idiot was thinking when he did what he did. Well, he got home and should have been made to stay home for a month or three for his stupidity. But then again, he had the right connection. He got off scott-free and all the other pilots were warned not to copy him.

[jetcruiser]

Hi Mysha,
On the 330s, there is a supplementary checklist for Battery only engine start procedure, but you will need a Pneumatic ground cart for the bleed supply.

Dont you have this same checklist on the A320? Is it possible on the 320?

FCOM3.04.70 p9

SUPPLEMENTARY TECHNIQUES
POWER PLANT
ALL
3.04.70 P 9
Flight Crew Operating Manual SEQ 050 REV 21
A330
Note : This procedure can be followed when the aircraft electrical network is only
supplied with batteries.
Make sure that pneumatic power is available for starting the engines.
• Perform a manual start on the LH engine following the MAN ENG START
procedure.
The secondary engine parameters are not available as long as the aircraft electrical
network is supplied by the batteries.
Note : It is required to start first the LH engine since the Xbleed valve does not open
automatically on batteries. Moreover, the parking brake is pressurized by the
LH engine.
The EEC remains in unrated mode for 4 minutes. Follow the ECAM procedure
to recover the normal EPR mode.
• When all the parameters are stabilized, check that the aircraft electrical network is
normal.
• Start the second engine following the autostart procedure.
ENGINE START ON BATTERIES

[jetcruiser]

Mysha, maybe the guy is really an idiot even before he did that. But, you wouldnt believe that such technique is also tolerated in other airlines.

Shutdown left engine / disembarked pax / close door start 1 / shutdown 2 disembarked cargo - embark cargo / start 2 / Refuel on the left side while embarking pax. All done within the limits of the Company Ops manual, Fcom procedures and knowledge of the VP safety. And all ground personnel properly briefed prior to the said procedures. And none of our Pilots get suspended for doing that.

Scenario: APU inop and No GPU and No Pneumatic gnd carts AVBL.

Believed it or not....

[Mysha Da Kat]

jetcruiser - Shutdown left engine / disembarked pax / close door start 1 / shutdown 2 disembarked cargo - embark cargo / start 2 / Refuel on the left side while embarking pax. All done within the limits of the Company Ops manual, Fcom procedures and knowledge of the VP safety. And all ground personnel properly briefed prior to the said procedures. And none of our Pilots get suspended for doing that.
-----------

Well, that's not allowed at PAL. And I'd like to see where it says you can do that in any Airbus FCOM. Also, some companies are willing to accept more risks than others.

APU INOP is a no-go item for dispatch to most PAL domestic stations because restart would be impossible without moving heaven and earth.

If you left MNL with a good APU and it fails to start 3 times upon arrival at the outlying station, the FCOM is quite clear. Wait 1 hour before trying again.

The point is that certain pilots can get away with what could have been homicide because of their close personal relationships with the powers-that-be.

Specific technical procedures are not the issue here.

[jetcruiser]

Mysha,
You maybe right, it may not be allowed in PAL and I cannot argue with that.
And you're also right other companies are willing to accept more risk.

I wont be surprised if One day PAL will be more commercially aware and concern about the impact of Grounding an Airplane for days on outlying stations and losing revenue just because of APU problems.

But for now, as you've said that fellow did something wrong from SOPs and got away with it,lucky him.

Jc

[M 0.78]

jetcruiser: start 2 / Refuel on the left side while embarking pax


Refuel with an engine running? Board passengers while refueling with an engine running?

:eek:

You're kidding, right? At least that idiot that actually didn't shut down also didn't refuel. You have opened our eyes to a whole new dimension of idiocy.

jetcruiser: All done within the limits of the Company Ops manual, Fcom procedures and knowledge of the VP safety. And all ground personnel properly briefed prior to the said procedures. And none of our Pilots get suspended for doing that.

That's gotta be the biggest load of crap anyone has ever dumped in this forum.

:ugh:

Ref: FOM 6.2.1.7 Fueling with one engine running

[jetcruiser]

Well M.78 , the business doesnt only stop in PAL.
Open your eyes and look over the fence and you will see that there are even bigger operators around you.

And Are you saying I am making this things up?

My present outfit has a company Ops manual, same as your BOM( not same in contents). And it clearly stated that we can do the refuelling with engines running. And the rest with prior approvals from the VP-safety, Chief and whoever you can think of to cover your ass.

Once you step out of your comfort zone(PAL premise), you will see further how tons of crap exist in this world.

Sorry, dont have means to refer to your REF. I'm no longer a PAL pilot.

Jc

[M 0.78]

Jc,

The FOM entry mentions personnel ingestion and the fire hazard as two reasons for the prohibition against fueling with an engine running.

It also says the situation is most likely to occur when the APU is inop and there is no ground power available.

So, at least at PAL, it's a big no-no.

[M 0.78]

Jc,

Good question about APU inop at night.

The FOM says boarding or deplaning passengers is not normally done with an engine running. This implies that exceptions can be made.

I would say it would be okay to deplane the passengers with the No. 2 running then shut it down after the last passenger got off. After all, there's still a chance that the APU will start after an hour.

Darkness engenders a whole new set of risks. Ground staff might still be sleepy (early morning) or already tired (in the evening.) Keeping an engine running during the ground stop really increases the risk of very big FOD.

Besides, you can use the one hour interval to ask the taxi drivers in the parking lot where the best party places are.

:cool:

This really should be on a different thread because it has nothing to do with management.

[jetcruiser]

:ok: M.78

Cheers!

Jc

[cebuano]

Jetcruiser, there seems to be something very wrong with your interpretation of the FCOM procedures for Refuelling with One Engine Running.

FCOM clearly says "Only the right hand couplings can be used". But you said "refuel on the left side while embarking the pax". What is this crap, man!

[cebuano]

And do you actually embark passengers while refuelling on the left side with both engines running?!? :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[jetcruiser]

Sorry Cebuano, dont mean to be very quick on that. I am guilty as charged( left side refuelling with pax boarding- it should be Right side refuelling and no pax boarding til completed with the refuelling). but i only mean one engine running.but maybe it was implied by the way i wrote it down:(.

Anyway,i talked to one of my colleagues here, maybe no standard way to do the whole scenario, but I guess his answer to my question was clearer. He said, he will shutdown no 2 engine and everything will be done on the right side i.e deplaning, embarking and refuelling.

thanks for raising it.

Jc

[Mysha Da Kat]

As professional pilots, we take pride in completing our assignments in the very best manner possible. We want to project the best images of ourselves and of our employers. This is applicable to every sector of commercial aviation from crop spraying to airline flying.

Sometimes our desire to please our clients is used as a convenient mask for our own personal or financial motives. We Filipinos like to call it malasakit when it might actually be something completely different.

Imagine having to stay overnight at some god-forsaken malaria-infested backwater airport with no overnight clothes. Add to that the loss of a nice juicy international layover the next day; not to mention your kid's birthday party that evening.

Just remember, if you stretch the rules and bring the plane home safely, you will be lucky if you get a pat on the back. On the other hand, if anything goes wrong they will throw the company operations manual at you and make you an example for all the others not to follow.

Use the company manuals to cover your ass. That way they can't use them against you.

Shiny side up! Pointy end forward!

[x_feed]

Sirs,


I would like to ask if someone here in this forum has already flown this brand new jet?


and what's the difference between Boeing and Airbus Fly-by-wire system?


thanks:cool:

[camper]

anybody care to share info on what happened?:}