Life Jacket for GA use

[JulieFlyGal]

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I'm about to purchase a life jacket and want to know if those bought from a marine shop are suitable for use for GA operations. That is, is there any difference between a marine life vest and an aviation life vest? The one I'm eyeing is designed for water sports (jet skiing) and I'm told it's made of silicone pads. It's not the blow up ones you see demonstrated on safety briefings on airliners. Can it still be used for GA operations?

[Runaway Gun]

Only if you like floating inside your aircraft, unable to swim 'down' to the exit point.

In other words - no.

[Di_Vosh]

Wot RunawayGun said!

Never wear an inherently buoyant lifevest "indoors" in a marine environment.

The only ones worth considering for GA flying are inflatable lifevests. (Some) Marine shops sell them.

Or try here:

RFD - Welcome (http://www.rfd.com.au)

DIVOSH!

[blackburn]

Julie
refer to Civil Aviation Order 20.11

5.1.6 Life jackets must:
(a) comply with a standard approved by CASA; and
(b) be of an inflatable type; and
(c) except for an infant life jacket — have a whistle fitted in a suitable stowage.
5.1.7 Where life jackets are required to be carried in accordance with subparagraph 5.1.1 (a)
each occupant shall wear a life jacket during flight over water. However, occupants of
aeroplanes need not wear life jackets during flight above 2 000 feet above the water.

Blackburn

[PlankBlender]

Yup, the only difficulty is the 'standard approved by CASA'. Anyone know the technical spec/standard it needs to comply with? Any specific maintenance standards/mandatory inspections? I remember once stumbling across some document that had the details...

A horrific story about how buoyancy can kill is here:

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961)

The Aircrash Investigation episode tells the harrowing and well-documented tale of the forced landing in shallow(ish) warm waters off Comoros, and despite very survivable conditions and impact lots of pax died because they inflated their vests (against specific advice of the crew of course) inside the aircraft and couldn't get out when the water came in. Very sad, a very bad and avoidable way to go that no doubt resulted in a collective Darwin Award :ouch:.

[HarleyD]

The TSO applicable to life jackets as such is TSO C13. TSO C72 applies to flotation devices and includes seat cushion types of flotation equipment.

The most popular type of approved jacket is the EAM KSE-35L8E, which is the yellow plastic pull over the head type that you may have seem. It is cheap and inexpensive to service. It is indended to remain within its plastic pack until needed and is not intended for constant wear. As a pilot it is best to be wearing a jacket for all stages of an overwater flight regardless of whether it is mandated for that stage/period of the flight or not.

A good constant wear type of jacket is the Switlik HV 35C which is TSO C13d approved and very popular in this role amongst overwater GA FW and Helo operators. It is much more expensive, but you really do get what you pay for. I wear the Switlik with the mesh back and with side pockets that I carry survival equipment in when conducting extended overwater ops or blue water (international) ferry flights, and regard it as cheap insurance, I want the best gear if I really need it.

I find it almost unbelievable that anyone like julie fly gal could contemplate using a PFD type of jacket and I really only post the above comments based on the fact that there may be someone who SERIOUSLY would like some info on this topic. If this was not just a wind up by JFG then I apologise and hope that this has been of help.

I have a deal with the sharks, they stay off the land and I do my best to stay out of the water

HD

[PA39]

Aeromil have a good Jacket on the market....from memory @$90. Light and colour coded red or yellow for pilot/pas. I think if they r going to be used in chtr aircraft they must be placed in survey each 12 months.....once the packaging is opened.

[flywatcher]

Where in the CAO's is the required servicing period for lifejackets? Is it different for charter and private ops? I thought it always used to be twelve months but can't find the approriate reg. Thanks in advance.

[compressor stall]

I second the recommendation for the Switlik. They can be comfortably worn for 12+ hours straight.

I have no idea how much they cost though. :}

[YPJT]

Flywatcher, The manufacturers specify the maintenance periods for their respective lifejackets. Hoover jackets sold by RFD used to be 12 months but some of the newer ones are now 5 years. One thing though, if you buy one in the pouch with a waist band, make sure you don't remove it from the pouch to wear around you neck. Once you do, the inspection certificate is null and void. Try telling that to a certain flying school at Jandakot who continually wear the jackets this way. :ugh::ugh:

Have a look at the RFD 11A. From memory they retail for around $250 - $300 ea but they are a good product. Haven't used the Switlik so can't comment there. One thing to be careful of though, some inflatables have hydrostatic activation. Meaning they will inflate as soon as they are immersed in water so steer clear of these otherwise you will find yourself in the same situation as described by runaway gun.

[HarleyD]

Self inflating on water contact, such as some of the stormy seas jackets, are not approved types for aviation use.

Stick with the known established types such as I have previously suggested, they are TSO'd

Work out if you are going to need emergency donning or constant wear and but the best that you can afford. as a very good guide the more they cost the better they are for comfort when worn for extended periods, take advice from those who actually know what they are talking about, difficult at best on this site and doubley so on D&G.

HD

[Aerodynamisist]

I recently purchased a pair of SMA2150 for the company('s) from ROARING FORTIES™ Life jackets, Life Rafts & PFDs (http://www.safetymarineaust.com.au/)

From memory they were less than $200 each. the one's I ordered were the belt type, so you can wear them through out the whole flight and You can do an exchange overhaul with them. Pleased with the product hope I never use it .

I don't want to start a debate on ditching techniques - but For over water ops this caap is worth a read

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/253-1.pdf

for commercial ops 20.11 appendix 4 you need to jump in a pool somewhere and demonstrate proficiency in use of life jacket as an initial qualification.
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/orders/cao20/2011.pdf

[flywatcher]

YPJT, thanks, I use a Switlick for myself, passenger ones here lately have been costing $40-$50 up to $80 each year to service, buying new 5 year life ones would probably make economic sense

[JulieFlyGal]

I find it almost unbelievable that anyone like julie fly gal could contemplate using a PFD type of jacket and I really only post the above comments based on the fact that there may be someone who SERIOUSLY would like some info on this topic. If this was not just a wind up by JFG then I apologise and hope that this has been of help.

I'm surprise that you thought my post was a wind up. I can assure you that I know nothing about life jackets and this is the reason why I asked.

Thanks for yours and others' detailed reply on this topic. I don't think this topic has been discussed before (well, not during my time as a member here at least) so it has been an eye opener for me, as well as others who are new to this profession.

[Runaway Gun]

Good on you for asking Julie. Don't ever be distracted and tempted to NOT ask simply for fearing what people may think. :ok:

[D-J]

for commercial ops 20.11 appendix 4 you need to jump in a pool somewhere and demonstrate proficiency in use of life jacket as an initial qualification.

I can see casa waiting on the docks as the rescue boat pulls in asking the pilot 'are you rated on that equipment' :} :rolleyes:

[flywatcher]

Sorry guys, one last question. Where do you get your Switlick serviced? Locals won't do it anymore. Thanks

[Aerodynamisist]

D-J I Don't think you will see them on the docks either, but in my case it has come up in a CASA audit and interview. It's all about the paper trail in the aftermath.