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BOAC
10th Jul 2009, 11:22
I seem to have wandered innocently into helping friends 'fix' machines. :ugh:XP I am happy with. One of Mrs B's friends tried to install Vista SP2 on an HP G6000 lappie. ......wait for it................

It 'took for ever' and as midnight was approaching and it had not finished and the lappie was getting 'warm' .....wait for it............... she 'switched it off'

OK - don't say it. Anyway, it now appears to be (unsurprisingly) complaining and still stuck in some sort of install loop. Apparently (via telephone) the 'automatic' repair starts and then restores to the ?ONLY? restore point, the same date as the (automatic) Windows update to SP2 (yes, I know....). This is not successful. Hubby (very ill with nasty chemotherapy and not able to do much) says it 'will not go into 'Safe' mode.

She is bringing it to me (some sort of blind faith I guess) tomorrow (Sat). I have downloaded 2 Vista repair Iso's (X32 and 64) today and will launch bravely into a recce tomorrow. In the meantime, any hints (apart from Install XP, buy a Mac, emigrate etc:))?

Sprogget
10th Jul 2009, 11:22
Start again. So much less pain.

BOAC
10th Jul 2009, 11:53
Sp - not sure what you mean? Do you mean re-install SP2? Re-install Vista?

No Disc (files on hard drive partition)
Machine apparently will not even 'run'

Sprogget
10th Jul 2009, 12:20
She tried to install it from files over the existing os that was running at the time?

BOAC
10th Jul 2009, 12:54
'Automatic' Windows Update I gather.

green granite
10th Jul 2009, 13:44
'Automatic' Windows Update I gather.

Fatal. Providing she (or you) have a Vista disc, the recovery mode should sort it out....................................hopefully

Sprogget
10th Jul 2009, 14:16
Yessir. Disk required from here. That or a stiff word with MS Even though she switched it off, I would still have a go at them, might just work...

Ancient Observer
10th Jul 2009, 14:31
One of my daughters' has a laptop with a dead battery. Thus it needs to be plugged in for it to work. It was in the middle of the SP2 install process - no idea where in the install, when someone unplugged it. (Probably the wife, who hates to see elec. wasted).
Anyway, same symptoms as your friends.

I thought that I'd need a techie, but it sorted itself out over about 24 hours. I have no idea why. All I did was turn the power off each time when it ceased doing anything. The time it took to cease doing anything at all seemed to vary. I probably turned it off/on about 5 or six times. (The standard help desk response is always turn it on/off a couple of times). (10+ sec.s on power button method of turnoff). Eventually, it took itself to the screen where it says words to the effect "Installing, stage 1, do not turn off". It still took bloody hours to install. I turned it off/on again a couple of times, de-fragged - more hours - and now it appears to be OK.

Mike-Bracknell
10th Jul 2009, 15:01
I can usually fix these, but it'd take much longer than i'm prepared to type to explain what to do. :}

BOAC
10th Jul 2009, 21:29
PD thanks

GG see post #3

Interesting on the power (thaks AO) - I saw a Google about removing both battery and power for 15-30 mins as a cure.

BOAC
11th Jul 2009, 17:27
Well! After a lot of struggling and finding that removing the battery for 15 minutes WAS helping, I got into SAFE and copied over the user's docs and pst. Then got 'startup repair' to run but it finally declared it could not fix it.

Still getting a blank screen on 'normal' boot. Working on it.:)

The 'hidden' HP OS partition is there, but does anyone know how I run it from SAFE?

'Tis very odd - Home premium and it shows SP2 installed in SAFE? Trying to run CHKDSK at the moment.

Keef
11th Jul 2009, 19:21
Grandma and eggs maybe, but what's worked for me in the past is to go past the "repair" option, which speeks advanced geek, and opt for "install" a screen or two later.

It starts the install process, then identifies an existing installation and offers to repair it. That's done the job for me several times.

Works with XP, dunno about Vista.

BOAC
11th Jul 2009, 20:42
Keef - that needs access to the CD or probably the partition on the hard in this case - neither I have.

PD - the odd thing is that SAFE is patchy - sometimes it runs, sometimes I get odd dots of light, othertimes now't. I'll keep going for a day or so but I feel it is pointing to a reinstall. At least I recovered the data! RE: Restore - see post #1

Mike-Bracknell
11th Jul 2009, 22:43
PD - the odd thing is that SAFE is patchy - sometimes it runs, sometimes I get odd dots of light, othertimes now't. I'll keep going for a day or so but I feel it is pointing to a reinstall. At least I recovered the data! RE: Restore - see post #1

If you've got the data, and the installable apps' CDs and executables etc, the quickest and easiest thing to do would be to reinstall. No point tearing your hair out trying to fix it when you'd get a whole bunch of other tangible benefits from a fresh install. :ok:

BOAC
12th Jul 2009, 08:44
I think you are right, MB - lady's husband says he made a set of disks from the lappie, so I guess we'll probably go that way.

BOAC
15th Jul 2009, 08:00
I've still got the beast, waiting for a couple of disks promised, but I have some doubts about the integrity of the whole machine. There seem to be power issues (the power cycles off and on sometimes all on its own:confused:) and the HDD makes an unusual 'fluttery' noise sometimes.

I am beginning to wonder if the 'slow down' in the SP2 phase 3 update could have been caused by the power supply.

Anyway a couple of days more to see if I can repair the Vista installation (it will boot from CD) and if not back, to owner for decision time. I did manage in one of the 'good moments' to run CHKDSK which 'fixed' some 'security thingie' during its !30 minutes! and I did get off the docs and pst as I said, so all not lost.

Bushfiva
15th Jul 2009, 08:43
'fluttery' noise

If it's not the OS diddling with the HD because it's bored, it's probably just the drive doing a thermal recalibration. I wouldn't worry about it.







You should worry about the power issues, instead.

BOAC
15th Jul 2009, 08:54
Yes- I felt the drive noise was the head trying to seek missing 'sectors' and I AM concerned about the power. Spoke to owner's husband who now tells me he has had some 'odd' power things himself so I am feeling there is a 'scrapyard challenge' coming up:)

Ampage
15th Jul 2009, 13:05
I'd go with Mike-Bracknell

Wouldn't even bother trying to fix it - You have no idea what system files are there and whats been blown away during the update.

Best bet is to install Vista from scratch. Take the hard drive out, put it in another machine as a secondary disk. Youl then be able to grab all of your documents off.

I work for HP (all be it for their unix server support area) - I think we had some issues with a few laptop models regarding the batteries, there was a recall programme a little while ago. You might want to see if your laptop is one of the affected models. See - HP Notebook PC Battery Pack Replacement Program (http://bpr.hpordercenter.com/hbpr/) - Click the May 14 link.

Hope thats of some use.

BOAC
15th Jul 2009, 20:36
Ampage - spot on - G6000 as per post #1 - and there it is! Will info the owner.
EDIT: Not that battery serial

PD - very much appreciate all the help you have given - and all contributors of course. I have indeed tried running sans battery but not much change.

I have a couple of 'tricks' left up my short sleeved shirt.

Mike-Bracknell
15th Jul 2009, 20:52
Well if you need any help, i'll be online until about 3am.

(upgrading an ESXi server with 250gb of virtual machines on board - and it's taking ages to copy from the datastore)

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 10:49
Thanks for the offer. MB.

Now, this is getting silly! Here's a head scratcher for all youpatient MS wizards.

I have a 'lent' Vista CD. Pop it in my desktop, boot from it, 'Windows is loading files', --> Vista setup screen.

Now into the HP Laptop.
1) Boot from CD/DVD takes a while to appear
2) Windows is loading files'
3) Now, 50% of the time a power reset, 50% a blank screen??

OK you ****, in goes my own XP CD and/or my UBCD Cd

Straight into setup??

This happens battery in or out. What is the difference in a Vista 'boot from DVD' and an XP 'boot from CD'?

Ampage
16th Jul 2009, 14:06
Bit of a funny one...

Since XP works, I would look into upgrading the laptops bios... might help. - That is, if you are not already using the latest one.

See: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProductList.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=135&prodTypeId=321957&prodSeriesId=3466363 - for driver and bios updates.

You might have to temporarily install XP to do that which could take some time. As I said earlier, if it is still under warranty, contact HP support. You should be able to get a replacement system board out of them which doesn't have these problems.

I also found a troubleshooting page for the G6000 which may well be of some use, some of the problems here seem to match yours!
HP G6000 Notebook PC series- Troubleshoot a problem - HP Business Support Center (http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SupportTaskIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=110&prodTypeId=321957&prodSeriesId=3466363)

John Marsh
16th Jul 2009, 14:13
This happens battery in or out. What is the difference in a Vista 'boot from DVD' and an XP 'boot from CD'?Reading the DVD demands more current from the PSU?!:confused:

I did notice with one bootable disc, the PC had to be fully shut down first, not just restarted, for the disc to work.

Mike-Bracknell
16th Jul 2009, 14:17
I have a 'lent' Vista CD. Pop it in my desktop, boot from it, 'Windows is loading files', --> Vista setup screen.

Now into the HP Laptop.
1) Boot from CD/DVD takes a while to appear
2) Windows is loading files'
3) Now, 50% of the time a power reset, 50% a blank screen??

OK you ****, in goes my own XP CD and/or my UBCD Cd

Straight into setup??

This happens battery in or out. What is the difference in a Vista 'boot from DVD' and an XP 'boot from CD'?

Drivers and hardware, pure and simple.

Vista is loading drivers for the hardware it detects (and XP likewise), and Vista is encountering an issue with one piece of hardware which then causes the power reset or blank screen.

Do you have any specific driver disks for Vista for the laptop? indeed, has the laptop been Vista certified?

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 14:39
I'm afraid you've lost me there, Mike. From Post #1, Lap was Vista pre-loaded (bought from Staples). Problems occurred following apparent broken SP2 update. In addition I thought that booting from CD/DVD would bypass any driver issues?

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 16:22
Yes, PD - I'm stuck too! No insults!:)
1) Yes, and I have now reset the CMOS - still the same.
2) It says 'DVD'; on the drive tray!

rgbrock1
16th Jul 2009, 16:53
BOAC,

The power supply issues are one of two things: the batteries are going bad, have gone bad, or have become defective.
But it also might be the motherboard battery. (Something many users overlook during troubleshooting.) I don't know how old the system is
but the motherboard battery doesn't usually last all that long. Replace the motherboard battery and if that solves the power issue that was the cause. If not, then the battery pack needs to be replaced. (which is easy enough to do.)

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 17:03
rgb - I agree, but can you explain the DVD/CD boot anomaly? I assume by 'mobi battery' you mean the main battery or do you mean CMOS?

green granite
16th Jul 2009, 17:06
This might help: http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5064940


Restore the PC to its original condition with the HP Recovery Manager if Windows Vista is not accessible

If the PC cannot launch into Windows, it may still be possible to use the HP Recovery Manager on the hard drive to restore the computer to its original operating condition by first pressing the Power button to start the PC, and then pressing the F11 key to start the HP Recovery Manager.
NOTE: Depending on the BIOS version, your computer may display multiple prompts during startup including F11 to start System Recovery. Pressing the F11 key on a computer with an HP factory image will start System Recovery even if the prompt is not displayed.

* If the HP Recovery Manager can access the hard drive, a prompt is displayed to backup the user files before beginning the recovery. Follow any on-screen instructions.

rgbrock1
16th Jul 2009, 17:20
By mobi battery I mean the small battery which sits in its cradle on the motherboard itself. CMOS battery, yes. Do not just reset the CMOS battery: replace it.
It's cheap enough at Radio Shack. (Or your equivalent in the UK)

The CD/DVD. I'm writing this at work (tsk! tsk! bad boy!) on an HP NC8000 craptop (laptop).
(I believe the craptop you are working on is also an HP bestowed one?) I have a similar problem to yours e ie, CD's work fine - to boot from - but DVDs boot occasionally. I believe, but I'm not certain, that a BIOS update might fix that OR
the CD/DVD drive needs to be replaced.

In essence, you not only have software issues - which I assume you're still working on - but hardware as well. I do, however, concur with others in that unless you
get Vista running properly soon, I would start all over again. During the SP2 "upgrade" the process will patch some files, delete other files and add new ones. Since this process was interrupted the system is in a rather precarious state, to say the least.

If the DVD drive won't install properly can you get your hands on an external USB drive?

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 17:27
gg - sadly exhausted that one a while back... loads files then blank screen. I just need to get into DOS and maybe I could sort the update (Google has instructions) but I cannae get into DOS! F12 does not produce a CMD prompt - just 'run repair/start normally' options.

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 17:30
If the DVD drive won't install properly can you get your hands on an external USB drive? - I have the very thing! Are you suggesting I could copy the DVD there and set the HP to boot from the USB? That would be neat.

rgbrock1
16th Jul 2009, 17:32
BOAC. Dropping into DOS, and the command line, although admirable your task to sort the update would be formidable. Google might have the "answers" but depending on how much time you want to spend on this I'd start from scratch. If your friend's husband has all their personal files copied off somewhere then there is no harm in formatting the hard drive and re-installing the "OS".

rgbrock1
16th Jul 2009, 17:36
By USB drive I mean an external USB DVD drive. Plug it into one of the craptop's USB ports, set the BIOS to boot from there (assuming you can get to the BIOS) and begin the install.

There is a way, though, to copy the DVD's contents to an external USB Hard drive.
But you would need a utility to set the USB hard drive to bootable. I know there is something "out there" to do this but I can't think of the name of the utility.

Time to Google it and find the utility.

BOAC - I have indeed found the utility. It's called make_bootable and can be found here:
http://www.megaleecher.net/uploads/Make_bootable.zip

Thus, if you have an external USB hard drive, copy the entire contents of the DVD to the USB drive and then run the make_bootable utility. (The utility does not work with FAT32 and NTFS file systems. You would have to reformat the USB drive to FAT)

--------------------------- OR MORE PREFERABLE-------------------

1. (http://www.askvg.com/) First format your USB drive in NTFS file system. You can do it by attaching your USB drive to a nicely behaving system and then format it from My Computer window.
2. (http://www.askvg.com/) Now open Command Prompt window from Start menu. Right-click on Command Prompt entry in start menu and select "Run as administrator" option.
3. (http://www.askvg.com/) Now type diskpart in Command Prompt window and press Enter. It'll launch DiskPart program:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/vishaal_here/LaunchDiskpart.jpg (http://www.askvg.com/)
4. (http://www.askvg.com/) Now provide following command:list volume
It'll show a list of all drives in your system. Look for your USB drive entry. As in the below screenshot, the USB drive is "G" which you can determine from its "Type" entry.
Now you have to select the USB drive volume by providing select volume no. command. Since in our case volume no. of USB drive is "Volume 4", the command would be:select volume 4
Now we have to make this drive active. So provide active command:active
Now exit from DiskPart using exit command.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/vishaal_here/UsingDiskpart.jpg (http://www.askvg.com/)
5. (http://www.askvg.com/) Now we need to create Boot sector on USB drive. We'll use "bootsect.exe" utility for this task. You can find this utility in Windows Vista setup disk. It'll be present in "Boot" directory.
Now provide following command in Command Prompt:
bootsect /nt60 G:
Here G is drive letter of USB drive. Replace it with the correct drive letter if your system has some other letter for USB drive.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/vishaal_here/InstallingBootloaderonUSB.jpg (http://www.askvg.com/)
6. (http://www.askvg.com/) At last, copy all files/folders from Vista Setup DVD to your USB drive and you have done.
Now you can boot using your USB drive and can install Windows Vista in any system.

green granite
16th Jul 2009, 17:37
Could you not download DOS and burn it to a cd and run it from there?

MS-DOS Boot Disk Download | AllBootDisks - Providing Free Boot Disks from MS-DOS to Windows XP. (http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/dos.html)

BOAC
16th Jul 2009, 21:05
rgb - been away trying that. I do not seem to have cracked it, though as my own laptop will not boot from my 500gb USB hard drive partition (after using Partition manager and bootsect). New territory for me. USB drive was set up in XP - will that affect this?

rgbrock1
17th Jul 2009, 13:04
BOAC says:
rgb - been away trying that. I do not seem to have cracked it, though as my own laptop will not boot from my 500gb USB hard drive partition (after using Partition manager and bootsect). New territory for me. USB drive was set up in XP - will that affect this?

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you but the 5 hour time difference between us is not conducive to helping someone with a problem!

That the USB drive was set up in XP should be irrelevant. I would imagine
that the drive is using the NTFS file system? Can you verify that? Can you get into the BIOS on your laptop and, using the appropriate menu action, re-order the boot sequence so the first one would be your USB device?

Did you try the preferred method I wrote earlier?

BOAC
17th Jul 2009, 13:43
Rgb - I actually set up the usb drive (a 500gb external) using Partition Magic, but all else as per - except that I setup another partition on it and made that bootable using bootsect. All appeared to go as per your post.

As this is all new to me, is the problem that I am trying to use a partition on the usb drive rather than making the whole usb drive bootable?

rgbrock1
17th Jul 2009, 13:48
You need to make the whole drive bootable and not a specific partition.
Partition Magic, from what I remember of it, can do this. It also depends on WHERE the bootable partition is. With a 500GB drive if it's located past
the first 3GB (i believe) it won't boot. There's a limit imposed by the BIOS
on where the bootable partition is in the partition map. I would start over again and set the entire drive bootable.

PS: I know you were, or still are, following the AF447 thread as I've seen
you there. You might find this of interest:

Guyana newspapers report a large section of AF 447 and other items have washed up on the beaches there.

BOAC
17th Jul 2009, 15:24
Thanks for AF447 - yes, I saw it - hopefully there might be a FDR/CVR in the bits!

I've run into a problem with the usb drive which is going to take a while to sort! I had three back-ups there in 4 partitions - 2 laptops, (mine and Mrs B's), and my desktop. Now I've ***d a partition and I have only desktop and mine, so I'll be in doo doo. I'll reformat the whole thing as one, try the boot bit, and then probably re-backup. Might take a while.

Out of interest I have Vista running on my desktop now in VirtualPC

rgbrock1
17th Jul 2009, 15:29
Good luck. I'm sure you'll get it up and running in no time.

What's the performance of Vista like in VirtualPC? I personally run all my virtual machines in VMware Workstation. Most of the time the virtuals run
in near native performance. I don't, however, have much experience with VPC.

If you run across any difficulties you'll see I'm still lurking between here and
the AF447 thread. (Whilst at work to boot. Bad State worker. Bad! :O:O)

BOAC
17th Jul 2009, 15:42
Having never seen Vista actually run (:)) I cannot comment on the speed, but it SEEMS a trifle slow, but not too bad. Took me a while to realise how to release the mouse from inside, though.....:ugh:

rgbrock1
17th Jul 2009, 16:23
I've been in the IT industry for 25+ years now. And I have several friends who do the same. I know of no company, organization or any other entity that has deployed Vista, nor have any that plan to do so. Most are playing the wait and see game as far as Windows 7 is concerned. (I, conversely, run Linux on all my machines. Much to the chagrin of management!)
I personally think that MS played a gambit with Vista and blew it. I think that's one of the reasons why they have "allowed" PC makers the option of pre-installing XP when, at first, they refused to do so. If MS blows it again with Windows 7 this may be the window of opportunity in which Linux finally comes flying through as far as more acceptance is concerned. (most don't realize that Linux can do anything Windows does. Anything. And it doesn't crash! And it has no security holes the size of the Grand Canyon!)

Enough espousing the virtues of Linux.

Hope you solve your issue soon.

Mike-Bracknell
17th Jul 2009, 19:55
most don't realize that Linux can do anything Windows does. Anything. And it doesn't crash! And it has no security holes the size of the Grand Canyon!

....and it's also an utter abortion as a desktop OS for anyone who doesn't have a beard, a red jumper, and a subscription to pipe smokers monthly.

;)

rgbrock1
17th Jul 2009, 20:23
beard, a red jumper, and a subscription to pipe smokers monthly.

That's odd. I don't have a beard (a goatee though. Does that count?).
I certainly don't have a red jumper (my wife would laugh me out of the house) and I don't subscribe to pipe smokers monthly. (I do subscribe to
The Wine of the Month club - does that count too?!!!)

I certainly would not consider SuSE Linux, Red Hat nor Mandriva
abortions of desk tops. Then again, that's my opinion.

Mike-Bracknell
17th Jul 2009, 20:47
My point, albeit missing in the humour, is that if you rang up a temp agency and asked 100 secretaries to come down and sit at 100 Linux desktops and be productive for a day, you wouldn't get any return on your investment.

Do the same task with Windows, and you'd be mostly successful. It's all in the ease-of-use and familiarity, not in the security and command-line speed.

That's one reason why Macs are gaining in popularity again (which previously waned because nobody wrote decent software for them).....and yes I am perfectly aware of OSX's underlying architecture.

Keef
17th Jul 2009, 23:03
BOAC: I've never yet succeeded in getting my laptop (old one or new one) to boot from a hard drive on a USB port. In the end, to preserve XP capability while installing a new drive to run Win 7 Beta, I bought a caddy that goes in the CD/DVD drive slot. That boots just fine! If you have a machine with a suitable slot, that's the way to go. Don't bash your brains out trying to get an external HD to boot: I don't think you'll win.

Aside from the opinions about Linux (I have a separate machine here to try out Linux flavours, but no beard, no pipe, and no red jumper. I do have some black shirts, if that helps)...

Some Linux distros are startlingly competent, and a lot faster on any given hardware than Windows. I note that the three ISPs I use for different purposes all have Linux running their servers. It can't be that bad.

I got on well with it - with most of the popular distros on different partitions on the several hard drives in the test PC. Yes, there was a learning curve, and someone brought up on Windows would need time to learn the differences. But once that's done, they have a free operating system (none of your £179 "upgrade" bills), vast amounts of software available free, and the opportunity to wear beard and sandals if that's their thing. I was close to dropping Windows and becoming a Linux person.

Where Linux and I came apart was when the graphics card in the Linux box popped its clogs. It was a very old AGP card. I replaced it with a different model of card, whereupon all but one of the Linuxes threw hissy fits and refused to start the GUI. It needed a new driver compiling into the kernel (I might have got the words wrong there, and the purists might come after me), and I don't know the relevant series of commands to do the job. Of course, anyone with more than a couple of brain cells would know the correct sequence of ./configure -this +that /the other but I'm a thick linguist and theologian, and pooterspeak isn't my first, second or third language. I gave up.

At that moment, along came Win 7 Beta, faster than XP, without the extreme oddities of Vista. That's more my style.

BOAC
18th Jul 2009, 07:32
Thanks for that, Keef. I have 'broken off' the forum to PMs to avoid boring all. I will update if any progress.

I have now managed dr_dos access to the HP hard drive. Anyone got a way to remove Vista SP2 via DOS..............................? I am coming to the conclusion that format/reinstall is the only option if the P Supply/drive are still ok.

Keef
18th Jul 2009, 11:38
If you have a CDROM drive... it's easy to do an "install over".

What might work is to copy the Vista CD to a USB stick and use that to "install over". That's how I got Win 7 RC to install over Win 7 Beta on this machine.

I could send you a Win 7 RC USB stick with the "don't upgrade from earlier versions" disabled, if that's any help - but you'd then have the problem of needing to buy a RTM copy 6 months down the line.

You need to be able to access the "setup.exe" on the USB stick - I don't think you have to be in a GUI, so from DOS might do the job. Not tried it that way, so don't know.

Another thought: if it has a CDROM or a USB slot, a Linux (eg Knoppix) bootable drive may allow you to get in and edit.

BOAC
18th Jul 2009, 20:01
GG - excuse the confusion. I see your bootdisk link covers up to XP. I understood that Vista did not 'use' DOS? Which DOS img do I need for a Vista boot CD?.

Keef - I had looked at the USB stick solution - there seem to be more options for making them bootable than for USB drives. I'm stuck with only 2GB on a stick at the moment, and Vista is around 3.2GB. I have tried LInux (Ubunbtu) but it does not boot properly - strange graphics screen then a freeze.

green granite
18th Jul 2009, 20:38
My suggestion was to copy dos to a cd and run it as the stand alone operating system which is what I thought you wanted to do, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do? Not certain how it would deal with a large Hard drive and NTFS files though.

Keef
18th Jul 2009, 21:09
I had looked at the USB stick solution - there seem to be more options for making them bootable than for USB drives. I'm stuck with only 2GB on a stick at the moment, and Vista is around 3.2GB. I have tried LInux (Ubunbtu) but it does not boot properly - strange graphics screen then a freeze.

I've got several sticks lying around, with useful stuff on 'em. There's a Linux-on-a-stick one that plugs into the USB socket on my laptop and is a complete operating system, including e-mail and allsorts. It needed some clever stuff to make it bootable, and took probably an hour or so to make. It's got the specific drivers for my IBM T42, so isn't any use to anyone else.

The ultimate "fixer" Linux is Knoppix. I've made and given away many CDs of that. It will boot from CD, then allow you to inspect your Windows drive without writing to it in any way. Several friends have had their key "stuff" rescued by that - copied to my plugin USB hard drive.

Dost want an "installable" Win 7 RC USB? Or a Knoppix CD?

BOAC
18th Jul 2009, 21:10
GG - as I said in #53 - I can get into dr-dos via 'NTFS for Dos' but that does not 'see' the CD drive.so I cannot get the Vista repair to run that way. Do you know which of the available Dos's will see NTFS and the CD Drive?

Keef - I think I have a Knoppix CD somewhere - I'll have a rifle thro' me drawers.

Keef
18th Jul 2009, 21:23
DOS usually needs separate CDROM support - that MSCDEX thing that we used to play with in the 1990s.

Probably means it wouldn't find a USB stick either.

green granite
18th Jul 2009, 21:31
Sorry Boac I missed that bit. :( I think I'd better go away and have a complete re-think about where I get a hair shirt from :O

Mike-Bracknell
19th Jul 2009, 00:17
Could always use WinPE or BartPE?

...but my vote is still for blatting the hell out of it and having a Sunday to relax.

(says he, into the second day of an SBS2003 to SBS2008 migration)

Jofm5
19th Jul 2009, 02:43
If you are using drdos or a true dos equivalent up to and including MSDos V7 (Windows 95/98/ME) you need to have the driver for the cd rom drive loaded in the autoexec.bat file of the boot disk.

To do this you need the autoexec.bat text file in your root directory of your boot disk to contain an entry to load the drive MSCDEX.exe driver - typically you wont need any parameters if it is an ATAPI cdrom drive (Most are nowadays) and of you have ample spare drive letters available - for more complex scenarios the command line switches can be found here (Command-Line Switches for MSCDEX.EXE (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/87165))

BOAC
19th Jul 2009, 07:01
Good stuff, Jof - will do. As MB says, today is a day out:ok: Knoppix located.

Saab Dastard
19th Jul 2009, 09:26
JofM5,

For a CD-ROM drive to properly work in MS-DOS, it is required that the CD-ROM drivers be loaded in both the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys.

Below are examples of the format of how the drivers should be loaded in the autoexec.bat and config.sys.

AUTOEXEC.BAT:

LOADHIGH=C: \Windows\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001

CONFIG.SYS:

DEVICEHIGH=C: \CD-ROM\NEC_IDE.SYS /D:MSCD001

Bear in mind that the location and name of the relevant device driver (nnnnn.sys) will vary dependent on your configuration - e.g. it may be on the floppy disk. Also you may not be using high memory, in which case just use Load and Device.

Obviously, you will need the correct .sys driver for you CD drive.

Bootdisk.Com (http://www.bootdisk.com) is an excellent resource.

SD

Jofm5
19th Jul 2009, 10:37
SAAB:

Of course you are correct for prior to v5.5 dos.

With the advent of ATAPI there are no specific drivers for cdroms as they are done over the IDE interface to the ATAPI specification (unless they are SCSI or specialised).

Therefore MSCDEX was the only TSR required to be loaded in a DOS environment and no .sys driver was required.

p.s. For devicehigh and for loadhigh to work you had to have himem.sys configured as your first load item in config.sys to allocate the memoryspace between 512 and 640 for its window to take effect before the drivers for the non DMA devices in those times.

Saab Dastard
19th Jul 2009, 15:18
Of course you are correct for prior to v5.5 dos.

With the advent of ATAPI there are no specific drivers for cdroms as they are done over the IDE interface to the ATAPI specification (unless they are SCSI or specialised).

Therefore MSCDEX was the only TSR required to be loaded in a DOS environment and no .sys driver was required.

Jofm5 -

I see where you are coming from, however:

The device driver had to be loaded in Config.sys in every version of MS-DOS up to 6.22.

There was no MS-DOS 5.5 (it went 5.0 to 6.0, then 6.20, then 6.22).

MS DOS 7 was the 16-bit "underpinning" of Windows 95A. DOS 7.10 (that underpinned Win 95 B and above) was the first version of "DOS" to do away with the requirement to install the device driver.

And you are right about himem, but I only put in the lines specific to the CD drive in the example!

SD

BOAC
19th Jul 2009, 20:19
Final (I think) news. Both DOS and Knoppix have me into the drive.Totally clueless as to what to do to remove SP2 via either! Still will not boot fully into anything near a Vista setup. 'Loads files' and then freezes. I can see a format/reinstall waving at me.......................that is assuming mbr, power supply, drone drone drone........................:{

Jofm5
19th Jul 2009, 21:11
Saab,

Interesting about the Dos v5.5 - even looking on wikipedia it says it does not exist yet I am sure the tulip dealership I used to work for had it - maybe it's me getting old (it was 15+ years ago) or was a tulip specific thing so I concede your point there.

BOAC:

Have you looked through How to uninstall Windows Vista service packs as a troubleshooting step (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948537) as it gives advice on unistalling a vista SP from a command prompt (Scroll down to method 3) . I think it requires you to have booted into vista in the first place but it may be worth playing with some of the advice on that before trashing and starting again.

BOAC
19th Jul 2009, 22:03
Yes, Jof - thanks - I have reviewed that page many times, and I cannot see how to action it without the Windows environment to produce the 'elevated' command prompt?

Jofm5
19th Jul 2009, 22:15
There is no elevated command prompt within DOS - DOS is unaware of security so it is like you are running with adminastrative privileges.

With a DOS prompt you should be able to right royally screw things up with no protection from the OS.

Keef
19th Jul 2009, 23:11
Ummm...

Have a peek in C:\Windows (using Knoppix) to see if you can see the archive of the files replaced in the last update - or an earlier one.

I think it "hides" them, but I suspect Knoppix would ignore the "hidden" flag.

You may then be able to copy the relevant files back to their home locations, thereby overwriting the "new" ones from the update.

In Win XP, they would have names like $SPuninstxxyyzz. Inside there, you may find something called spuninst.exe (won't run under Knoppix), or you may find a load of files (which you can copy around).

My XP installation got very cluttered with these, till I decided I wasn't going to roll back that far, and deleted all but the last couple.

Don't know if Vista does things the same way. I'm pretty sure the Win 7 RC doesn't.

Jofm5
19th Jul 2009, 23:25
Just to help with what keef wrote:-

DIR /AH will do a directory listing of hidden files.
DIR /AS will do a directory listing of system files.

DIR by itself will not list hidden/system files or directories without the above switches.

Unfortunately DIR is mutually exclusive in showing hidden/system files or not showing them so if you do DIR /AH it will show only hidden files not all other files as well.

Should you frequent using the dos prompt you may wish to set the DIR environment variable DIRCMD so that your directory listing is always familiar and sorted.

EG I use:

SET DIRCMD=/O:GEN

Which sorts the directory listing to G (directories) then E (Extension) and then N (Name).

Saab Dastard
19th Jul 2009, 23:55
Unfortunately DIR is mutually exclusive in showing hidden/system files or not showing them so if you do DIR /AH it will show only hidden files not all other files as well.

If you pipe the output of DIR /AH to a file (using > ), then /AS using >> to append to the file, then DIR*.* again using >>, you can end up with what you want in a single file.

SD

Jofm5
20th Jul 2009, 00:09
true - you can concatenate stdout streams.

However concatenating streams where multiple attributes exist e.g. its a hidden system file will result in repeats within the output.

I was trying to keep it a bit simpler btw.

BOAC
3rd Aug 2009, 17:11
A footnote, although the Vista laptop has long gone ('condemned' by a Computer repair shop....), again thanks for the (ongoing) help I have received from all.

I thought I would let all know about what appears to be an excellent W boot disk which actually runs a mini-XP on a Dos booted system as well! It is called 'Hiron's Boot Disk' and Google will locate it. Easy to make iso and burns easily to CD at 190kb 'ish. I'm waiting now for a few USB sticks to appear here 'cos Hiron also offers boot from USB stick...................................:eek:

I could not see it in the 'sticky' so I have added it.

piggybank
3rd Aug 2009, 23:26
Its been quite a few years since I used any partition management programs but I do remember that one I used had a readme or info item about DOS numbering.

Seemingly the DOS number displayed on the screen is for customer information, but the partition program gave info it would find the numbers in the area of 5 for DOS 6.22 and previous.