Some advice please.

[flyvirgin]

Hi There,
I passed my PPL last year and I'm booked on my ATPL in September.
I have just recently purchased 40 hours at stapleford to do some hour building.
Here's my Problem.
I learned to fly at Bournemouth airport where i Know the airport and surrounding area very well, i don't mind solo flying there at all, But Bournemouth is about 150 miles from my house and it's inconvenient to drive down there all the time.
So i went to stapleford, got checked out and away i go.
I have only about 15 solo hours, I'm not confident at all flying on my own, i always feel safer if I'm flying with another pilot, I know the stapleford area OK and the radio is not a problem for me.
Because i feel safer with another pilot i never go on my own and where the other pilot is not always available i miss out on flying in this lovely weather.
I'm worried about getting lost even tho i have a back up Gps or flying into someones airspace, also i worry about if something happens to the aircraft (like a engine failure etc)i know it probably sounds stupid but its there way i feel.
I have never really flown using VORS etc, does everyone use them?
How do i overcome this and does anyone (or did) feel like this.
At stapleford i have always took off from 04L but what if they use the other runway which i have never used. these are just some of the thought's that run through my head.
Or the weather, what if I'm flying on my own and the weather changes.
I want to take up a career in commercial flying so i really need to overcome this.
Cheers & thanks for any replays.
Cheers

[MLS-12D]

A certain degree of nervousness in the early stages is normal; but the lack of confidence that you describe is quite unusual. I wonder what on earth happened at Bournemouth? :confused:

I am no psychiatrist, but your subconsciousness seems to be telling you that "Flying is Difficult! Flying is Dangerous! You are not good enough, and you cannot handle it!". As you realize, you must overcome this if you are to have any hope of a professional aviation career.

I don't know of any 'magic bullet', but if you can find an experienced and understanding instructor at Stapleford it would be prudent to confess your specific fears and seek more dual instruction. If that doesn't do the trick, perhaps you will need to accept that you are simply uncomfortable flying, and try another pastime.

[140KIAS]

Firstly don't feel like you are the only one to have faced this. I certainly didnt feel too confident at going outside my comfort zone when I first got my PPL. The good thing is that you are recognising this and seeking guidance. Rather than heading off gunho into class A airspace !

Here's a few things that I would suggest :

1. try and buddy up with someone else in a similar situation or even better more experienced but looking for company or to share costs. 2 brains and 4 eyeballs are much better.

2. hire an instructor at Stapleford to sit in the RHS. I think you can log the time as P1S ? They can do as much or as little as you want but if nothing else will be there to confirm all is ok. I did this as I had never landed away at a large airport. Went to Newcastle. It wasnt what I expected. Never been anywhere like that again by choice.

3. Spend time looking at the charts for the area. Plan some flights in your head and imagine where you might go and what you might do.

4. Slowly expand your circle of confidence. Im not familar with Stapleford but a quick glance at the charts suggests that its fairly free of controlled airspace to the east. Why not plan a flight out and back. Once your happy with that you can stretch the elastic a bit further. Again once you comfortable with that maybe try a 3 leg cross country. After that you might want to land away.

5. Looks like the LAM VOR is near Stapleford. Use it to track away and back to the airport. Will help ensure you dont get lost.

6. Alternatively. Pay me loads of money to come down south, put me up in a 5* hotel and I'll happily sit beside you for 40 hours.

Above all, dont be afraid to ask for help. I'll bet you just about everyone who flies has been where you are at present. The good thing is that you have asked the question whereas many others would be too afraid. Moreover if you can get over this hump then within a few hours your confidence levels should increase considerably and you will thoroughly enjoy the rest of your 40 hours.

[flyvirgin]

Thanks for the reply's.
I guess i will just have to get on with it. once i have done it a few times i think it will get better.
I done my x country fine, flying to Old sarum,Exeter,Bournemouth with no problems.

[BackPacker]

6. Alternatively. Pay me loads of money to come down south, put me up in a 5* hotel and I'll happily sit beside you for 40 hours.

I will settle for a 4* hotel and loads of money.:ok:

But honestly, just hang around the airport for a few hours and talk to people about your problem. My guess is that within a few hours you'll have several offers of pilots that will fly with you for free. I've had those offers (and made good use of them) on several occasions, and I have made the same offer to others too (and they made use of them too).

You might also want to look around the airport for any flying club, as opposed to a flying school. Clubs generally have a more informal atmosphere, with more pilots who fly just for the fun of it, and will seize an opportunity to fly RHS for free, with both hands.

2. hire an instructor at Stapleford to sit in the RHS. I think you can log the time as P1S ?

If you are fully licensed, current and everything, then you are 100% entitled to log that time as P1/PIC. Just because you happen to have an instructor sitting next to you, instead of an aviation-novice passenger, doesn't change your status as Pilot In Command.

But... Beware that some hour building instructors insist that you log P1/S or PuT (aka "dual") while they log PIC. They need the hours and think it's OK that you pay for them. That's not in your best interest in this case, particularly since you are hour building too.

[jollyrog]

Not an expert speaking as I haven't had a licence many years myself, but I can't really agree with most of what MLS-12D says. Your aprehension sounds normal to me.

I went through exactly what you did to some degree. Got my licence, started going off on trips of my own but worried on each one of them whether I really could cope with it and whether I was up to the job.

BUT you have to remember that your instructor, a CAA examiner and another instructor (who has checked you out at Stapleford) obviously think you're OK. As long as you do the things you've been taught in the way that you've been taught them, you'll be fine.

If you want to find out the reasons why (most) light aircraft fall out of the sky, read the AAIB reports. They're great for learning, but what you'll discover is most investigations conclude pilot error. Running out of fuel, carb ice and IMC are favourites. Correct planning and technique - as per your training - will avoid all three. Genuine mechanical failures do happen, but to a lesser extent.

If you're worried about the weather, don't fly. It may change when you're up there but short range forecasts generally aren't that bad and until you feel really confident, you can limit yourself to local or nearby destinations (with cheap landing fees) where the weather doesn't really get the chance to change. If you are in any doubt, ring your destination (and intermediates) and ask them what they see out of the window. I do this often and I've always had a helpful response. You'll find that people are reluctant to tell you it's OK to fly (as they should be, it's your decision), but they're usually very up front about saying that it's bad idea today.

When you feel more confident about your ability to interpret the weather information better, then go further. Whatever you do, always have a plan B, even if that plan involves leaving the aeroplane at your destination and coming home on the train. OK, you may not be popular with Stapleford for leaving their aeroplane at another field, but you're not dead and their 'plane isn't smashed to bits. If it was the right decision - for weather or defect - nobody will mind too much. If it was the wrong decision, you're not dead and their 'plane isn't smashed to bits. Can't lose.

I suggest you choose some easy, close and fun destinations and get used to them. Repeat the trips a couple of times. Go South, the airspace is less restricted. Keep well away from controlled airspace and danger areas. Go easy on the radio and try and limit the number of times you change frequency. All of these things increase workload and stress and you might want to do without that for now. Try Headcorn and Lydd, the fees aren't too much and both have friendly flying clubs. I went to Shoreham the other day for the first time, it's dead easy to find, the runway is good and long and the town is only a short walk. Always ring for a briefing when you're going somewhere new, it doesn't do any harm to ask and makes the arrival much less stressful.

By the end of your 40 hours, you'll have cracked this.

[jollyrog]

The P1S thread has been done to death many times elsewhere.

You can only log P1S if you are taking a flight test with an Examiner. As an hour builder, if you fill your log book with a load of dodgy P1S entries, you'll have trouble in the future.

If you choose to take an instructor with you in these circumstances, you're not paying him for tuition, you're effectively paying him to be a safety pilot. I would expect that you log P1, he logs nothing and you make him happy by giving him money.

If however during the flight he takes control or delivers instruction, then the logging arrangement may change. You need to have this agreed before you commence the flight.

[Justiciar]

This does strike me as a bit more than post skills test nerves (which are normal). Stapleford has clear airspace to the east. Go back to basics and plan a route to say Southend, Clacton and up the coast. Practice tracking the Clacton VOR out and the Satpleford on the way back in. Plan and make a few short land aways. You have Clacton, Andrewsfield, Earls Colne, Elstree, Southend, Rochester, Headcorn and Biggin in easy reach. If you dont want to land away then there are many local features you can use to plan and test your local navigation. It is surprising how quickly you will become familiar with the local area and learn to identify features.

Coming back to Stapleford should not be a problem if you are coming back on an east west line (London City is 6/7 miles to the south and needs watching).

For further afield try an excursion into deepest Norfolk, where there is lots of uncontrolled airspace and some nice airfields to visit.

With 15 hours only P1 you need more solo time. There is no substitute and the problem with always having the more experienced guy in the right seat is that you will tend to look to him for decisions or defer to him. The first time solo from a new field will be daunting, but when you get back it will feel great. You would not have gone solo, done your navx and passed your GFT if people did not think you were up to it :ok:

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

You have some good visual navigation (pilotage) clues around Stapleford. The M25, River Thames, London Docklands etc. You could take off and follow the M25 south eastwards until you come to the Thames, turn left and follow that out towards the North Sea. Stay on the south side of the Thames to keep clear of the Shoeburyness Ranges and out of Southend’s hair. You then have the options to drop in to Manston or Maypole, Rochester or Headcorn.

If you are uncomfortable about the controlled airspace, perhaps you should invest in a portable GPS. There are (rather expensive) aviation ones, which you might use later in your flying career, or cheaper modified car ones which will run the CAA Charts via Memory Map. This latter option would allow you to plan out a route on your PC, down load it to the GPS and then have some fall back when you are flying it by conventional navigational techniques. Other facilities that will help keep you out of trouble include the Farnborough LARS. They are quite good at redirecting people when they are heading for controlled airspace.

As mentioned above, buddying up with another PPL and taking the sectors in turn is a good option. You can go twice as far for the same cost, plus split the workload. As you are going on the ATPL route and probably will be operating in a multi-crew environment in the future, it might be useful to get used to that style of flying. As Justiciar mentions, you will need to be sure that you can perform all the functions on your own and are not relying on the other person.


Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[englishal]

This is normal for low houred PPLs.

They way to get over it is to just get out and do something...For example, plan a flight from A to B (somewhere you have never been) then go and fly it even if you feel nervous. Next time it'll be easier, and you can expand your horizons. I'd take a mentor with you for a few flights, there are many people who'd be happy to sit RHS just to help give confidence. I would, I often do it with other group members, and keep an eye on the nav and if they want do the radio work.

[lbbd]

FLyvirgin. Check your pm.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Strikes me that the old adage that a PPL is a licence to learn is never more appropriate here.

15 hours solo is very very little, and I'm sure you appreciate that. Flying with another experienced pilot is a good idea - occasionally. You'll learn from them, and that's great.

But, ultimately, you do need to spend time learning from experience - and that means solo flying. Do be worried about doing it somewhere new - but only worried enough to make you obsessive about getting all of your planning and procedures right. At your current stage of experience, you probably can't overprepare for any flight - and do it as your instructor(s) taught you. Ignore the bar talk about not bothering with (whizz-wheels, PLOGs, met, Pooleys....), just do it by the book, overprepare - and go and learn how to fly the only way it's really possible, by doing it on your own, making some mistakes, correcting them, and learning as you go along.

Also turn all the kit on in the aeroplane and play with it - albeit probably one at a time. Track VORs on a route that you can get right anyway, turn the ADF on and see how it behaves en-route. Learn from it all.

And most of all, learn to enjoy it, otherwise you'll never get anywhere.

G

[Pace]

And most of all, learn to enjoy it, otherwise you'll never get anywhere.

I second that sometimes you wonder why some people bother as they seem more motivated by achieving goals than actually enjoying an experience.

It is normal to have a certain amount of apprehension especially when taking on something you are not used to.

When i started flying many moons ago I can remember being very happy on my own in the local area but always taking a particular friend who I considered better and more experienced than me on longers flights.

We had a trip planned to france with a couple of passengers.
I was super confident with my friend on the trip.

I arrived at the airport and prepared the flight chatting to the passengers awaiting my friend.

He called stating that he had lightly crashed the car and could not come but told me to take them myself as I was well up to it.

My confidence collapsed and I nearly called the trip off. Then I decided to go. It was the best thing I had done :)

So yes do the trip with someone but then do it yourself and above all enjoy yourself.

Pace

[flyvirgin]

Thank's for all you reply's.
one Day next week,after work i'm going straight down to stapleford hiring a c152 and going up.
I'm just going to fight it.
Thanks again.
Adam:ok:

[MLS-12D]

A few things to keep in mind:


the Cessna 152 (and its big brother the 172) is a docile, foregiving aircraft with an outstanding safety record. While it is possible to kill yourself in one, you must work very, very hard to do so;
if you are flying on your own and the weather changes, you can usually make a precautionary landing somewhere and seek advice. In the worst case you will leave the aircraft stranded at a 'foreign' airport and seek ground transportation home: which would be inconvenient, but no disaster. No reputable flying school will criticize a low-time renter pilot for such a decision;
if you inadvertantly enter restricted airspace, the worst that will happen is that you will be fined or have your license suspended: not fun, but not the end of the world either. More likely than not, your conduct would be excused with a warning;
the statistical odds of losing a modern engine are remote. Most engine failures are the result of fuel starvation / mismangement, which you will not experience given that your flights are relatively short and the 152 has a very simple fuel system;
if the engine does quit and will not restart, the 152 has a low stall speed and if you don't panic you will certainly be able to force land, or at worst effect a crash landing that you will walk away from;
if you are told to use the other runway, you may perhaps screw up part of the procedure but you will still land safely (it's just another runway, no big deal).

Hopes this keeps some of your fears in perspective.

MLS

P.S. Three apt quotations:

"Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight." (Benjamin Franklin)

"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one." (Elbert Hubbard)

"My life has been full of terrible misfortunes most of which never happened." (Michel de Montaigne)

[Pace]

one Day next week,after work i'm going straight down to stapleford hiring a c152 and going up.
I'm just going to fight it.
Thanks again.
Adam

Its not a case of fighting it but changing your attitude. You say you were happy in your old stomping ground. There is no reason why the new area should be more threatening. The air is the same, the aircraft is the same, the topography may be slightly different :)
Just relax and enjoy dont fight.

Pace

[Justiciar]

I'm just going to fight it.

I think this is a reference to fighting his fears. These things are a struggle within one's self.

[Whirlybird]

The trouble with fighting fears is that you can scare yourself so much that you confirm to yourself that the fear was justified!!!

A gentle approach will work better here. Go flying by yourself, but initially do something you feel comfortable with, maybe just some circuits. Next time, do a short local flight, and as Genghis said, prepare thoroughly. After that, go as little further, to the east where there's no controlled airspace. Work up gradually, but do ONE new thing at a time, not half a dozen. Want to track a VOR? Just do that; it's enough for one trip. Don't plan a new route and go into controlled airspace as well. Get the idea?

What you're experiencing is normal for a newish PPL at a new airfield in a new area close to the crowded airspace of London. When I first qualified I didn't dare fly out of anywhere other than my home airfield, I was so scared. It'll get better. Other people feel that way too, I'll bet, but it's not done to admit your fears in many flying clubs.

Good luck and try to have fun.

[BackPacker]

Want to track a VOR? Just do that; it's enough for one trip.

If you set yourself a specific objective like that for a flight, remember that the PPL is a license to learn. There is no rule banning you from taking an instructor with you and making it a proper instruction flight. Learning how to track a VOR on your own might be doable, but instructors have a lesson plan for this, allowing you to make the best possible use of your airtime. The same goes for some other tasks: by taking an instructor with you, not as safety pilot but as instructor, you can learn things much more effectively and efficiently than on your own. (And you can still log the flight as P1.)

And specifically about tracking VORs: since you will want to learn how to intercept and track inbound/outbound radials, you're going to do this rather close to an actual VOR. But that VOR will also be used as a turning point by a lot of other aircraft. While you are concentrating on the needle in the cockpit, an instructor will handle the lookout for you.

Oh, and another tip which I haven't heard in this thread so far: if you have a flight simulator (MSFSX with a local scenery add-on for instance) then it might help tremendously to execute your upcoming flight in that sim before you actually fly it in the air. Some things (like anything related to instrument flight) are very easy to learn in the simulator while other things (aircraft control at the edge of the envelope for instance, or R/T) are not, so it's not a universal learning tool. But it may help you in getting confident in your planning of a flight, before actually undertaking it. And it much cheaper per hour than actual flight time. Heck, you can even legally fly a sim after having a drink or two at dinner.

[Pace]

Oh, and another tip which I haven't heard in this thread so far: if you have a flight simulator (MSFSX with a local scenery add-on for instance) then it might help tremendously to execute your upcoming flight in that sim before you actually fly it in the air. Some things (like anything related to instrument flight) are very easy to learn in the simulator while other things (aircraft control at the edge of the envelope for instance, or R/T) are not, so it's not a universal learning tool. But it may help you in getting confident in your planning of a flight, before actually undertaking it. And it much cheaper per hour than actual flight time. Heck, you can even legally fly a sim after having a drink or two at dinner.

The photo real scenery and terrain mesh avialable as an addon for MSFS plus the airport scenery makes for an amazingly real experience. You can see all the built up areas, lakes roads and motorways. You can drop the viz, increase it, add cloud bases, rain, wind turbuulence etc.

I used to do a lot with MSFS 4 years ago sadly in a flat in london with only a lap top not now.

As you say it is an excellent tool for flight training.

Now MS have terminated continuing this programme puts a big ? mark on its future beyond a few years. How long the FS community can keep it going who knows?

Maybe Google earth ?? or some other sim in the future.


Pace

[BackPacker]

Maybe Google earth ?? or some other sim in the future.

There actually is a plug-in for MSFS (X, I think) which makes MSFS download Google Earth scenery in real-time. Can't get much more realistic than that, I suppose.

I've never used it, don't know the URL or prices, but I suppose it won't be too hard to find with Google.

[The Heff]

Slight unrelated to flyvirgin's original question, but I reckon the next desktop-based simulator to 'take-off' (sorry for the pun :O) will be Flight Gear. As a computer game it falls far behind MSFS, but as a training aid to instrument flight its quite the equal, and what makes it even better is that its absolutely free.

Not sure how to put the link up (or even if its allowed) but a quick search on Google will take you to the website where it can be downloaded from.

The only frustrating aspect is the complexity, as its been created and modified by various different software developers (some amateur, some professional) with no clear unified objective. So its not the most user-friendly software to get to grips with. However this does make the simulator very versatile with the ability to record and capture every single detail of the flight, with the ability to export that data into Excel and MATLAB.

Anyway, back to original topic! :}

[MLS-12D]

Here you go. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FlightGear+Flight+Simulator) :hmm:

[SirLaughalot]

Here you go. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FlightGear+Flight+Simulator) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gifNever seen that site before. Nice one! :ok:

[SirLaughalot]

You may find the July/August edition of Go Flying quite useful (Issue 15). It contains a few articles on the subject of nerves, fears and confidence, etc.

[kiwi chick]

Flyvirgin

It's called experience. :ok: We all start with none and in the same boat as you (although possibly not quite as anxious?)

Very good advice has given here, the only bit I would add is that perhaps you should postpone your ATPL until you are more confident? (or are you referring only to the written exams?)

:)