Flight Denham - La Touque HELP!!! [Archive]

jamie230985

7th Jul 2009, 16:44

Hi,

I am planning to take a PA-28 from Denham over to La Touque in a weeks time and I am looking through the planning and had several questions with regards to the route.
Which ATC Unit is it best to talk to on flight over the channel towards France (Dover - Calais)? I assume London Info 124.6 then Lille Info 120.275?
I know I have to file a VFR flight plan for the route but what do i need to do with regards customs and how long before we fly do we have to do it?
How far before reaching the FIR boundry do i need to contact Lille Info?
I plan to fly direct from DVR VOR to ING NDB, do I need to cross the FIR boundry at a specific point (i.e. RINTI) or will tehy accept me en-route?Any help would be great!!

Jamie

XX621

7th Jul 2009, 16:57

1. Yes.
2a. Fill in a GenDec at least one hour before and hand it in to your FISO/Tower (if they do GenDecs for pilots that is).
2b. Telephone LFAT and give notice of your arrival.
3. London Info will say cheerio at the appropriate point, or if they forget you switch over at the boundary ... but it's not an exact science.
4. You can do what you like. As long as you know where you are and can communicate it clearly when you call Lille.

Crossing the Channel is a bit like losing your virginity. Actual event very much over-hyped, but you'll be glad when you've done it.

That's what we did last time (flying that is, not losing virginity) . I welcome other opinions on it, and I'm sure there will be :)

Enjoy:ok:

patowalker

7th Jul 2009, 17:21

See page 70 'Crossing the Frontiers in VFR'

http://tinyurl.com/dx3u56

Twiddle

7th Jul 2009, 17:24

1. I'd try Manston, they have radar at times and will be aware of the local traffic, then talk to L2K tower, they'll give you a squawk.
2. If you want to there's a customs notification on the L2K web page.
3. Manston will probably ask you to report mid-channel, at that point you'll squawk 7000 and call L2k tower.

liam548

7th Jul 2009, 18:30

good questions, Id probably be asking the same later this year.. :)

englishal

7th Jul 2009, 19:26

[email protected]

They used to have the customs notification online form on their website, but I can't find it now?

patowalker

7th Jul 2009, 19:56

If you go to their website - - = = : : Aéroport Le Touquet Côte d'Opale : : = = - - (http://www.aeroport-letouquet.com/uk/page.htm) select Aeronautical Information, click on 'Aero.services' and scroll down, you will find the French Customs section, which reads in part:

During the opening hours of the Airport, the customs officers are on duty, enabling you to land and take-off without prior notification. Outside these hours, please contact us.

Fuji Abound

7th Jul 2009, 20:30

Why would you go Dover Calais?

Much better go Lydd L2K direct or even coast in a little to the east of L2K if you want to shorten the crossing. In reality the difference between the two is so little as to make no difference.

If you go via Lydd you can talk to Lydd who will ask you to report 10 nm south, and if you are going to L2K you can switch direct to L2K and not bother with Lille.

If you route down Mig alley (rather than to the North of London) you can stay with Farnborough pretty much all the way to Lydd and get a traffic service from them.

If you route North of London they will take you from the Thames down to Lydd.

You can over fly the power station at Lydd above 3,500 but check the danger areas are cold (Lydd will tell you) or transit above 4,000 if you want to go over the top.

It is easy to avoid the lot if you wish.

Worth taking note of the shipping lanes if it is your first time. It is interesting to see the line of ships going into the North sea on the UK side and the line Atlantic bound on the French side. Distinct lanes, distinct directions.

Enjoy.

echobeach

7th Jul 2009, 20:40

I like short water crossings when in sep and cross dvr to cap griz nez. I talk to manston for 2 reasons.
Firstly they sometimes bring in heavy traffic coming off airways at dvr 3000 ft. I have been positoned to keep clear of the 747 at 3000 ft dvr more than once. What has always amazed me on a cavok day is how tricky traffic this large is to see even when you know where it is. If talking to someone else you wouldn't know it was there.
Secondly I believe the coastguard plane is based at manston. Makes me feel better, just in case.

patowalker

7th Jul 2009, 21:21

According to 2.2 on page 71 here, http://tinyurl.com/dx3u56 you must contact Lille. If that fails, the alternative is Calais. Only after that would it be correct to contact L2Q.

What happens in practice may be another matter.

DLT1939

7th Jul 2009, 21:22

I fly EGLD - LFAT frequently. Agree with all that has been said, except now no need to advise Le Touquet of crew/pax. Flight plan is all that they need.

If you fly the direct route EGLD-LAM-LYD-LFAT be aware this takes you over Headcorn where there is a lot of parachuting so call them on 122.0 before going to Lydd on 120.7.

Lille on 120.27 will usually give you a squawk before transferring you to Le Touquet on 118.45 when you are about 10nm out.

Le Touquet ATC speak better English than I do and wil usually put you right downwind for R/W 32 or left base for 14. Very relaxed and helpful on the ground. Fill in your return flight plan on arrival to save a few minutes.

Fuji Abound

7th Jul 2009, 21:44

I like short water crossings when in sep and cross dvr to cap griz nez.

Hmm, all eight miles shorter, I wouldnt bother but each to their own.

Secondly I believe the coastguard plane is based at manston.

Which probably will not do you a lot of good unless it is a sea plane - which it isnt. :)

steveking

8th Jul 2009, 18:47

Make sure your transponder is working as L2K are now only accepting transponder equipped aircraft.

I found this out some time ago when whilst having mine repaired and visiting L2K they kept giving me a squark but by the time they realised that I never had one I was down wind and they let me in anyway. ATC did tell me quite clealy that I would not be allowed in without one again though.

BackPacker

8th Jul 2009, 19:18

If it's your first flight over a significant body of water then there's another thing you need to be aware of. Perfect VMC weather (CAVOK) is almost like IMC over water, as the grey-blue of the water melts seamlessly into the blue-grey of the sky. So you see absolutely no horizon in front.

Solution is to go on instruments, flip on the autopilot, or look straight down at the water and the shipping to keep oriented with the right way up. Up to a point you may also be able to see a horizon on the sides of the aircraft, or behind you.

It's not necessarily dangerous, it's just something you have to think about a little in advance.

Russell Gulch

8th Jul 2009, 21:22

La Touque At least have the very common courtesy of spelling the place correctly. I hope you don't call them up using that rather crass name.

And to think that 23-year-olds once went to school! 23-year-olds in my day could spell Dortmund and Berlin quite happily.

Fly Stimulator

8th Jul 2009, 23:28

The customs entry form does still exist on the Le Touquet web site at www.aeroport-letouquet.com/customs (http://www.aeroport-letouquet.com/customs/)

I'm also Denham-based and often pop over to Le Touquet. The simplest route is probably to simply follow the M25 round to Stapleford (taking care around Elstree on the way) and then just setting course from there to Cap Gris Nez. That'll keep you clear of Rochester, Headcorn and Lydd, taking you out over Folkestone for a short water crossing. If you want to practice using VORs on the way, use BNN - BPK - LAM - BNE, though check the NOTAMs to see if Boulogne is back in action now.

Denham will want you to fill in a GAR form. You can find a blank one in Word format here (http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/GAR2009v3.1.doc).

You might also find this basic guide (http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/flying_to_france.htm) useful.

I don't know how long you'll have there, but if you're going for lunch then do a search here for Le Touquet restaurants: it's a topic that has been quite well covered.

Finally, have fun!

- - - -

Edited to revise the link to the GAR form to point to the current version.

Edited again now that l'Escale has re-opened.

denhamflyer

9th Jul 2009, 14:22

Denham will want you to fill in a GAR form. You can find a blank one in Word format here.

Actually that is quite a good point. The tower got very flustered recently when they received my flight plan but had not seen a GAR form (I had already sent it to SB the night before). I am not sure how many airfields do this but Denham have a policy that the tower needs to see a copy. To be fair they will then do all the legwork of co-ordination with SB for you.. Especially since Thames Valley SB keep changing their phone numbers (they moved upstairs and did not move the phone lines) :rolleyes:

Otherwise Fly as Fly Stimulator and others have said - it is a very pleasant Journey.

PS. I always tend to talk to Elstree and Stapleford when I fly very close to them. Otherwise Farnborough should be good to use. The last few times I have always been handed to L2K directly (by London) but have the Lille Freq to hand just in case.

chevvron

9th Jul 2009, 15:14

As soon as you clear the free lane about Rickmansworth, call Farnborough on 132.8. They should hand you to the next Farnborough sector 123.225 just after you turn the corner south west of LAM. Ask to stay with them as long as possible. Now I was always willing to talk to you out to mid channel and put you straight to Le Touquet Tower, but they may not do that nowadays 'cos although they'll only be able to provide basic service after LYD, at least you'll be identified, something London Info and Lydd Approach can't do so if (perish the thought) something goes wrong over water, assistance can get to you much quicker.

jamie230985

9th Jul 2009, 19:42

At least have the very common courtesy of spelling the place correctly. I hope you don't call them up using that rather crass name.

And to think that 23-year-olds once went to school! 23-year-olds in my day could spell Dortmund and Berlin quite happily.

Get a life, if your not going to contribute to this then go spout your opinions elsewhere!!

patowalker

9th Jul 2009, 20:04

Better tell Denham that there is no need to file a GAR outbound to Le Touquet:

2.AT A GAA AIRFIELD YOU CAN FLY TO AND FROM ANYWHERE, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERING PERIODS OF PRIOR NOTIFICATION REQUIRED DEPENDING ON YOUR DESTINATION/DEPARTURE POINT.
OUTWARDS – TO ANOTHER EU COUNTRY THERE IS NO OBLIGATION TO ADVISE CUSTOMS OF YOUR DEPARTURE.
OUTWARDS – TO A NON EU COUNTRY (INC CHANNEL ISLANDS*) YOU MUST NOTIFY CUSTOMS AT LEAST 24 HOURS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE.
INWARDS – FROM ANOTHER EU COUNTRY – 4 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
INWARDS – FROM A NON EU COUNTRY – 24 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
*CHANNELISLANDS – NOTIFICATION PERIOD IS 12 HOURS

Phoenix09

9th Jul 2009, 20:13

Now I was always willing to talk to you out to mid channel and put you straight to Le Touquet Tower, but they may not do that nowadays 'cos although they'll only be able to provide basic service after LYD, at least you'll be identified, something London Info and Lydd Approach can't do so if (perish the thought) something goes wrong over water, assistance can get to you much quicker.

Farnborough very kindly let me stay with them to the FIR Boundary on a recent trip to Rouen which was very useful.

Denham will want you to fill in a GAR form. You can find a blank one in Word format here.

That is an old copy of the GAR form. A new version can be found here (http://www.netblink.com/fgztl/reference/garform1pV3.pdf). This is a PDF form that can be filled in and printed off.

A Word copy can be found here (http://www.bellaluz1502.com/Flyer/GAR2009.doc).

englishal

9th Jul 2009, 20:25

if your not going to contribute
Don't you mean: If you're not going to contribute? Otherwise you're implying that "not going to contribute" belongs to Russell Gulch...;)

Yes, GAR not required for France. But you need to send the same form to customs NCU (email on the form) 4 hrs before arrival back. I normally just email the GAR to SB/NCU at the same time 12hrs before to CMA !

Fly Stimulator

9th Jul 2009, 23:28

Thanks for the updated GAR link Phoenix09.

I see that Customs haven't stopped there, and that there's now an even newer version on their web site here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_PROD1_029410) which just seems to have added a 'Nationality' column.

They also have the useful instructions and contact numbers sheets on the site here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_PROD1_029412).

Russell Gulch

9th Jul 2009, 23:38

Get a life, if your not going to contribute to this then go spout your opinions elsewhere!!

I've got a life already, thank you. I did contribute, by educating you as to the correct spelling of the subject of your thread.

Is courtesy such a rarity these days that speling and grammer :bored: (and politeness) is lost upon the youth of today?

Phoenix09

10th Jul 2009, 05:55

I see that Customs haven't stopped there, and that there's now an even newer version on their web site here which just seems to have added a 'Nationality' column.

Thanks for that Fly Stimulator. No sooner does somebody produce a Word version and they go and change it!! :(

D SQDRN 97th IOTC

10th Jul 2009, 07:09

Russell

You might find that all he did was press the "t" with insufficient force on his keyboard for it to register.

But if we are going to talk grammar.....

Why is Le Touquet a "them" when you call "them" up? My question should properly read "Why are Le Touquet a them....." according to you?

What do you mean that 23-year-olds once went to school? Do you mean when they were still only 16 years old? I am over 40 years old and I too once went to school.

Why do you use the exclamation mark when making your comment about adults who once went to school? Is that so unusual?

What do you mean by "23-year-olds in my day....."? What exactly is your day, and shouldn't you release them from it?

And why are spelling mistakes discourteous?

Fly Stimulator

10th Jul 2009, 09:27

Thanks for that Fly Stimulator. No sooner does somebody produce a Word version and they go and change it!

I suppose it counts as bureaucratic productivity!

I've updated the Word document you provided a link to so that it includes the new column and put it online here (http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/GAR2009v3.1.doc).

OwnNav

10th Jul 2009, 09:35

Try this

200906 EGLD - LFAT | Track Log | GPS Track Log Viewer | goFLYING (http://www.goflying.org/nav/tracklog/tracklog.htm?trackLogId=1715267226)

Fly Stimulator

10th Jul 2009, 09:59

OwnNav - That's my track log from my most recent trip. I love the goFLYING (http://www.goflying.org) site!

TractorBoy

10th Jul 2009, 10:04

I did my first proper channel crossing last weekend (with me as sole pilot in the aircraft, and no help from anyone else)

I agree with DVR - Cap Gris Nez, as it keeps you to a minimum over water. The route for the flight plan I used was
DCT DVR DCT 5100N00130E DCT 5052N00135E DCT
as points such as "Cap-Gris-Nez" are no longer accepted. Also, it gives the FIR boundary crossing point. If its good weather, cross at FL055 as it minimises the time out of gliding range for land, plus the views much better !

Personally, I spoke to Manston Radar all the way to the FIR boundary, and then called Le Touquet Tower, AFAIK Lille Info don't really give a toss about VFR traffic going to LFAT. On the return journey, I also called Manston after leaving LFAT zone, and told them I was keeping a listening watch on their frequency until I passed the FIR boundary - again, because Lille really don't seem to care.

Good luck, and enjoy it.

OwnNav

10th Jul 2009, 12:25

Hi Fly Stim

Apologies for nicking your Plog, thought it would help illustrate things

Cheers

OwnNav

Fly Stimulator

10th Jul 2009, 13:44

Hi OwnNav - no criticism intended, it just struck me as a coincidence that you posted a track log that happened to be one of mine! I deliberately made it publically available on the goFLYING site, so there's no question of nicking!

For those who don't know the site, anybody can upload their track logs and then choose whether to keep them private or make them public. Any embarrassments can be kept private!

The full list of ones people have chosen to make public is at www.goflying.org/nav/tracklog/public_tracklogs.htm (http://www.goflying.org/nav/tracklog/public_tracklogs.htm)

It makes for quite interesting browsing, especially if you use the Google Earth option to view them in 3D.

Aggitated-atsa

26th Aug 2009, 18:57

I would like to say in response to an earlier coment about radar units being able to help downed aircraft quicker, that an aircraft that departed Lydd a few months ago Suffered an engine failure. He wasn't very high and he had to dump his aircraft in the sea. Within 15 minutes there 2 aircraft on the scene and in 20 he was out of the water.

27th Aug 2009, 13:51

Worth taking note of the shipping lanes if it is your first time. It is interesting to see the line of ships going into the North sea on the UK side and the line Atlantic bound on the French side. Distinct lanes, distinct directions.

Have they changed the system then....?!

The route for the flight plan I used was
DCT DVR DCT 5100N00130E DCT 5052N00135E DCT
as points such as "Cap-Gris-Nez" are no longer accepted.

Not so...I see them regularly on VFR flight plans.
UV

liam548

27th Aug 2009, 13:57