Advice on M/E takeoff briefing

[FL170]

Just after some advice on a typical takeoff brief in a twin, committal height etc. My instructor drilled me today as mine isn't quite up to scratch.

Cheers

[Di_Vosh]

It's been a while, but from memory the most important bits are:

Take off Safety speed is XXX
If an engine fails after take off Mix UP, Pitch UP, Power UP, Gear UP, Flap UP
Dead foot = Dead engine
Confirm with full throttle movement
Feather Dead engine
Maintain Blue line speed of YYY

Then you can also add bits like:
Maximise climb with 5 degree aob and 1/2 ball deflection, what to do if VMC or IMC etc.

Guys who fly piston twins regularly can correct this.

But I've gotta say:

My instructor drilled me today as mine isn't quite up to scratch.

Since I'm guessing you weren't born knowing a good M/E take off safety brief, why hasn't your instructor given you an example one during your training?

DIVOSH!

[FL170]

Cheers Divosh that looks like the bulk of it :ok:

My instructor has covered the brief, first two flights and today he pulls it on me to brief. While I had the majority of it right I didn't quite have it polished. Would like one in writing to really learn it off so its like second nature.

I believe it should also include stopping on the available runway if we have not passed blue line speed (we are talking about an anemic twin here), landing on any available runway if already airborne etc.

Still any more tips will be much appreciated!

[glenb]

You could consider prior to the drills.

"i will maintain my required heading, maintain a safe airspeed, then..........

[FourBalls]

The first and foremost on the efato list should be control the aircraft! eg fly blue line, ball centred. Forget this and won't matter a fcuk what you do with all those levers.

[AussieNick]

"On this runway under these conditions, if i have an engine failure under blue line speed of XXX i will retard the throttles and stop straight ahead. If I have a engine failure above my blue line speed of XXX with insufficient runway remaining I will maintian my current heading and then Mix Up, Pitch Up, Power Up, Gear Up, Flap up, dead leg = dead engine, confirm with full throttle movement, feather the dead engine and return to land. If we are in IMC i will climb overhead the field and conduct the relevant approach to return and land"

[training wheels]

It's been a while, but from memory the most important bits are:

Take off Safety speed is XXX
If an engine fails after take off Mix UP, Pitch UP, Power UP, Gear UP, Flap UP
Dead foot = Dead engine
Confirm with full throttle movement
Feather Dead engine
Maintain Blue line speed of YYY

Then you can also add bits like:
Maximise climb with 5 degree aob and 1/2 ball deflection, what to do if VMC or IMC etc.

Guys who fly piston twins regularly can correct this.

But I've gotta say:



Since I'm guessing you weren't born knowing a good M/E take off safety brief, why hasn't your instructor given you an example one during your training?

DIVOSH!

Mine is similar to Di Vosh's ...

Vmca is ...
Vtoss is ...
Vyse (blue line speed is ) ...
Should I have engine failure before blueline speed, maintan directional control with rudder and then close the throttle and land on remaining runway available.
Should I have an engine failure at or after blue line speed, then maintain directional control with rudder, apply mixture rich, pitch up, power up, flap up and gear up, identify dead engine with dead leg, confirm with throttle (move throttle up and down and listen for noise .. change or absence of noise means you've mis-identified the dead engine), feather the dead engine.

If in VMC, then will conduct a visual circuit and land. If in IMC, then I will climb to MSA and conduct the instrument approach procedure for the departure aerodrome...

.. well, that's the gist of it. Some instructors may also ask you to extend on that and brief your departure track's LSALT/MSA, enroute terrain and obstacle clearances as well.

[FL170]

Thanks guys, AussieNick and training wheels top stuff, I'll write it up on a card and put it under my pillow for reading every night :8

[flying-spike]

Quote Vtoss, Vyse, MSA
If I have an engine failure before reaching my decision point I will close both throttles and land/pull up on the remaining runway.
I will signify reaching my decision point by retracting the gear.
If I have an engine failure after the decison point I will carry out the drills (expand on that, specific for the aircraft type)while controlling the aircraft including 5 deg and 1/2 ball into the live engine. If the aircraft is performing I will climb straight ahead then make a L/R circuit to return for a landing in VMC or climb to MSA for **** approach.
If the aircraft is not performing I will manouvre the aircraft above Vtoss for a landing (30?degrees) either side of runway heading

This takes into account all the variables such as runway length, slope, surrounding topography

My two bob's worth

[Unhinged]

Maintaining controlled flight has to be the first priority ahead of moving all those levers around. It's surprising how long even a BE76/PA44/etc will keep flying if you just control pitch/roll/yaw. Here's one I teach (this one customised for BE76 at an airport where there is clear ground for a significant distance on runway heading):

Today I am flying a Beechcraft Duchess. Vmca is 65 knots, Vr is 71 knots, TOSS is 80 knots, Vyse (Blue Line) is 85 knots, and Vy is 85 knots.

In the event of an engine failure after take-off I will not continue unless I have obstacle clearance, Vyse, and gear and flaps retracted. Therefore, my decision point today is gear selected up, and...

If I have an engine failure on the runway I will close both throttles, and apply even braking

If I have an engine failure with runway remaining I will maintain controlled flight and land back on the runway

If I have an engine failure after take-off and before the gear is selected up, I will lower the nose to maintain safe speed, pick an appropriate landing place within 30 degrees of the nose, and use the gear, flaps and remaining power to fly the aircraft to the landing, manoeuvring as necessary to avoid obstacles

If I have an engine failure after the gear is selected up, I will fly the aircraft, maintaining direction, set pitch attitude for Blue Line speed, and wings level; Without delay Mixture-Pitch-Power-Gear-Flaps-Identify-Verify-Feather.

If I am in VMC, I will maintain VMC, fly the aircraft straight ahead to a safe height, return for a circuit and landing.

If I am unable to maintain VMC or am in IMC I will continue straight ahead tracking 140 reference the NDB. I will let down to not below 400 ft to become visual and return for a landing.

My takeoff minima are therefore a 500 ft cloud base and 2km vis.

[compressor stall]

Only ONE poster above has the thought to include what happens if you loose an engine and still go down.

You are flying aircraft that can legally depart from runways where there is a short window (a few of seconds) where you don't have room to stop but you don't have the momentum to keep flying, no matter how fast you are at feathering etc.

There are many old threads exploring this idea. For some light reading on this topic, look up in the ATSB database the C90 KingAir out of Towoomba several years ago.

And finally - DONT ROTE LEARN IT. You will learn to rattle it off and not understand what you are saying. The brief should cover the same points each time, but not word for word.

[Fred Gassit]

I second CS advice, if you just parrot it out from memory how much thought is required? Visualise each action as you brief it and customise for each location, safety headings etc.
Dont make it too long, you are trying to maintain control and obstacle clearance.

[FL170]

I totally agree CS, however I am in the initial stages of my training and really need to go over it a million times in my head just to make sure I don't forget anything. It is something that becomes second nature and it is for this that I need to practice before hand.

But very valid point, I wouldn't want a parrot in control of a twin :eek:

[Grogmonster]

Flying Spike has nailed the way it should be done. Spike I would fly with you any day. Just one thing I would like to add. Remember that Blue Line is the speed for VYSE at MTOW in most light twins. So some significant performance, i.e. Rate of climb, may be gained by using a lower speed at lighter weights. BUT blue line is the initial target speed.

Groggy

[ReverseFlight]

The secret of not parroting prose is to understand what the action items really mean in terms of saving the aircraft. Items in the list specifically relating to live/dead sides must be memorised and rehearsed especially for practice failures when your instructor has reduced the dead-side throttle to idle and coarsened dead-side pitch to a lower rpm (don't touch these), e.g.

LIVE Pitch Up
LIVE Power Up
DEAD foot, DEAD engine
Stand on ball LIVE SIDE
Lift the DEAD side
Close DEAD throttle slowly to confirm
DEAD Pitch to feather
Close DEAD SIDE cowl flaps
DEAD SIDE switches off
Monitor LIVE engine

And don't forget to TRIM for blue line speed to reduce workload.

[flying-spike]

Don't just bring the throttle back on the suspect engine. Take it up and then back. I know we started talking about EFATO but I have seen pilots when given an engine failure at a low power setting mis-identify. If you take the throttle up from a low setting and nothing happens then that is the dead one.
As for cowl flaps with EFATO on a PA31, close both sides then open the live side once you have enough height. There is a lot of drag in them and the first priority is to get some height. The engine will last with the cowl flaps closed for a minute or so.

Also on the the PA31, if you are going to go, always select the gear up. IF the pump on the live engine is good the handle will reset to up neutral. If not, you know you may be faced with pumping the gear down and will have to allow time for that. Too late on late final to discover you had one sick pump and the gear dangling and not locked.

[Captain Nomad]

I altered the wording of part of my piston Multi-Engined T/O brief after an experience I had once. Have you considered how you would identify an engine failure on take off? How would it present itself? What if it was a partial failure?

I was on board a C310 that had a partial engine failure on take off. The take off was attempted and aborted a couple of times before a decision was made to visit a LAME. What happened? Everything indicated and sounded perfectly normal taxiing around. With the levers fully forward and rolling down the (fortunately wide) runway the pilot was unable to keep the aircraft straight. With full opposite rudder the aircraft veered off to one side.

LAME's investigation found crud had entered the fuel system (probably while the aircraft had been sitting stripped in the open waiting for a paint job). Injectors were blocked and the offending engine was effectively firing on 3 out of 6 cylinders. If the engine had been run for much longer engine damage probably would have followed rather rapidly. I was just glad it hadn't happened on the previous take off when I was flying and taking off on a narrow, downhill, shorter island strip where an aborted take off would have still been the right thing to do but would have resulted in a different outcome.

From that observational experience I changed the first part of my brief to: "If I have a major directional control problem on take off below (decision speed/blue line) I'll treat it like an engine failure, control the aircraft with rudder, close both throttles and pull up/land on the remaining runway."

The brief definitely has to be a 'thinking' process. However as a student, the best thing you can do is sit down and write up the brief for yourself with the possible variables. Memorize it and go and sit in the aeroplane (last time I checked, it doesn't cost you a cent to hop in a plane and sit in it for a while on the ground - and it can save you some real dollars and make you a much better pilot). Go through the brief, touching the items as you call them. At the very least, close your eyes and visualise the process. They used to call it 'chair flying' - it works.

I still do that process when possible, especially when transitioning to new aircraft types. Remember the brief should take into account correct procedures out of the POH. For example, depending on what aircraft you are flying, the gear should be raised before the flap and the exact opposite in other types! Tailor the brief to the aircraft type and conditions you are in. Goodluck and stay safe!

[A Comfy Chair]

FL170,

There is a lot of very good advice being given here.

Captain Nomad has touched on the idea of touching the controls as you practice... you should also consider doing it while you are briefing.

I'm sure you have the idea, but for example when you say "I will select Mixture up" make sure you identify and touch the mixture lever. Same goes for the others.

The way I found best was to learn the outline of the brief (ie the order), and add in the relevant details on the day, especially when you start flying more than one type. This makes you actually think about the relevant items. The order is also a good way to make sure you don't forget anything.

We can all parrot out a brief very quickly, but it should really be like a converstation, thinking about what to say.

My biggest tip - remember you are briefing YOURSELF as much as the other guy.

[Captain Nomad]

Absolutely, touching the items as you call them in the brief should always be done. That way your 'motor memory' is also recalling the motions to be made when 'it' happens. This is par for the course and expected behaviour when you come to do Instrument Rating checks later on and company checks if/when you become a commercial pilot. Very good habit to establish, and your instructor should be on your case about it too!

[EJECT EJECT]

I would recommend not over complicating your brief too much - its for your rather than your instructors benifit. Pick a speed at which you can maintain control and accelerate to Vyse - this varies with TOW, DH, pilot
proficiency etc. Then your brief becomes

" XX is my TOSS. If I have an engine failure during the take off roll or below XX I will close the throttles and abort the T/O. If I have an engine failure above XX with no runway remaining I will continue the T/O with my phase one checks, Mixture up, Prop up, Power up etc..."

Your departure brief containing departure details (Alt,track etc), MSA/LSALT's, actions after EFATO from safe height should be done seperately and BEFORE the EFATO brief - this helps the most immediately relevant information stay fresh in your memory.

Here endeth the lesson :}

[kellykelpie]

Remember the mini-skirt principle when briefing - short enough to maintain a healthy level of interest but long enough to cover the bare essentials (sorry ladies).

I think briefing threats is a very good idea, especially single pilot IFR. Most airlines now cover threats at the end of a brief - the things that are out to kill you. Terrain, black hole departures/approaches (especially non-precision), traffic etc. Ask yourself "what is different about this departure?" and verbalise it to yourself.

[NOSIGN]

FL170,

you have your choice of briefs here mate. Good advice.

If you're anything like me, when you first start out - those briefs, especially by the young professionals, sound intimidating, as if these guys have been doing this for decades.

I like the advice given by comfy chair... it should be more like a conversation.

The EFATO drill is important, and you'll get that right with practice.

Consider performance - e.g. typical 3.3% TKOF obstacle clearance gradient, climbing at 100kt, I need about 330fpm to the circle minima for obstacle clearance. Circle minima is [1000]ft. 10nm MSA is [2900]ft. At 100kt I need roughly [1500]fpm to reach the 10nm MSA by [2.66]nm. If I cannot achieve this (look what your VSI is doing), I will depart from overhead to reach LSALT/ 25nm MSA/ etc.

Assume that you're not visual, don't guess your departure and performance figures. Calculate rough estimates in your preflight planning for each landing area you plan to visit in each airplane, and write them down on your plate/ersa etc.

A while back a PPRUNER posted this good mnemonic: RANN
Runway Asymetric Normal Navaids.

all the best

[Xcel]

I have changed mine a few times depending on where I have been flying and what rwy lengths im dealing with...

in PNG it was a matter of picking a speed but also a decision point as a physical point on the strip and then an acceleration time to blue line due to the usual drop off's etc. flollowed by a performance check for continueing...

i.e: If I have an engine failure or malfunction before my decision point i will stop. After my decision point i will control the aircraft accelerate mixture pitch power flap identify dead leg dead engine verify with throttle and feather... with positive climb i will continue to xxx strip (low pt) otherwise i will pick a landing point within 30 degrees.

With a normal length strip or with second crew i have:

i.e: If I have an engine failure or malfunction below xx (toss)kts I will stop. After xx kts and gear in transit i will conduct the drill - mixture pitch power confirm gear up flap up identify dead leg dead engine confirm with throttle, confirm with crew... maintain xx (selected blue) kts and ball in the middle if not climbing look for a field within 30 degrees. With positive rate of climb conduct a circuit in the direction of the live engine and return to land (dependant on vmc imc and local terrain).

but im just reiterating what others have said just learn something relevant to your aircraft or sop's... but remember you dont want it to have to change to much as you will generally keep it for a number of years once you've learnt one...

sit in the aircraft and touch drill your way through, doing everything as smooth and fast as you can without a mistake before you even start the engines, or your lesson, and you will be sweet...

[TSIO540]

Having given initial ME CIR training, flown GA twin charter (line + C&T), and multi-crew turbine ops over the last 5 years I have seen many different briefs.

One of my instructors gave me a fantastic lesson about asymmetric flying: "There is a big box, and a little box. The big box is flying the plane, the little box is cleaning up a failed engine"

Yes it is important to clean up a failed engine in a light twin, but that counts for nothing if you still hit the trees. There is a lot of talk about Vyse with little mention of Vxse:8 If an aircraft is under control (the FIRST priority), then the next threat is terrain!:} Why not get away from it in the most efficient manner possible? Go for max AoC until clear of immediate obstacle threats, then accelerate to Vyse until above a 'safe' (circuit/msa/lsalt etc) altitude. :ok:

I believe that a touch drill is essential in the early stages. I still encourage it for anyone with less than 500hrs ME. As for the brief, it must in my view/experience include what you're going to do before your decision point, what you're going to do after your decision point and what you're going to do for a normal departure.

For further nonsensical reiteration, this is what we do where I work now:

We rotate at the recommended Vr and with positive climb (Positive RoC on VSI, Increasing Altitude on Alt and ground falling away) we climb at Vxse until clear of obstacles or 400ft AGL and then accelerate to Vy.

As such our brief is:

If I have an engine failure before positive climb I will....
If I have an engine failure after positive climb I will..... (insert your touch drills)
Acceleration altitude is e.g. 1600ft
Climb gradient required is e.g. 3.3% (from SID) which = XXX fpm at Vyse
Otherwise normal departure will be.... e.g. @ 1800ft, left turn to intercept 263 on climb 6000', 10MSA is 3100ft, LSALT is 3400ft [AS PER SID]
Are there any questions? [if flying two crew or dual]

[Capt Fathom]

You only have to remember this.....

Never take an aircraft anywhere your brain hasn't been 5 minutes before! :E

[linedriva]

There is some great advice here, and maybe I'll add some - but I doubt it.

The touch drill during the brief works for me, and most of the people I fly with.

A very unprofessional brief I used to hear (and give, on occasion) was - 'If we have a failure after V1, you say Sh!t, I'll say F**k, we'll do what we can and crash into the softest place possible and head for the pub'. The serious brief always followed.:ok:

[groundfloor]

Post crash memonic RFBID = Run Fast Body In Danger.

[Howard Hughes]

-Ambient conditions
-V Speeds
-Decision point
-Actions prior to decision point
-Actions after decision point
-Abnormal departure
-Normal departure

Apart from in a training environment, it is not necessarry to brief pitch up, power up, flap up, gear up, dead foot etc... These phase one drills should be second nature, just like pushing the throttles up for take off.

Lastly as other posters have said in an ACTUAL event, the only important thing is CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT!:ok:

[FL170]

Cheers for all the advice! General vibe I'm getting is pretty obvious to those with sense.. Fly the plane (as we would in any emergency), and then sort out the problem and make a decision. However this is the brief I have whipped up :

Today I am flying a Beechcraft Duchess. Single engine minimum control speed (Vmca) is 65 knots, TOSS is 80 knots, and Best rate of climb with or without an engine inoperative is 85 KIAS.

If I have an engine failure during the takeoff roll I will close both throttles, and apply even braking

If I have an engine failure after takeoff with runway remaining I will maintain controlled flight and land back on the remainding runway
I will signify the decision point by raising the gear
If I have an engine failure after the decision point I will fly the aircraft, maintaining direction and setting attitude for a speed of 85KIAS. Without delay Mixture Up, Pitches Up, Power Up, Gear Up, Flap Up, IDENTIFY dead leg dead engine, VERIFY Exercise throttle dead engine, FEATHER Dead engine.
If the aircraft is performing I will climb straight ahead and fly a circuit to return for landing.

If the aircraft is not performing I will manoeuvre the aircraft above the Vtoss for a landing 30 degrees either side of my heading.

So yeah open to any suggested modifications..


Also would like some advice on texts related to flying twins. I have read av8n's How it Flies, just wondering if I should spend the $50 :ooh: on ATC's handbook??

[training wheels]

just wondering if I should spend the $50 :ooh: on ATC's handbook??

If I were you, I'd spend the money on a set of twin engine throttles for use on MS Flight Sim X .. computer based sims are great for procedural training. I have the CH Throttle quadrant (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/t_tq_quad.html) which look and feel like the real thing (..well, almost). I think you can get them for about $250 these days, which for me was a good investment (a fraction of the cost of your overall multi-rating and MECIR training).

You can programme the sim to have an engine failure at any time, where you can then then go through your drills touching and pulling levers as you would in the actual aircraft. If you don't wish to get the rudders for the sim, just simulate having one foot dead and one active with a couple of empty tissue boxes. Works well. :ok:

BTW, the Baron that comes with MS Flightsim X does a pretty good job with simulating asymmetrical flight, but its true value for me is in its use as a procedural trainer. I know one flight school which actually uses it as such.

[A Comfy Chair]

Thats a pretty good brief you have come up with, and is more than acceptable.

If you ask 50 different pilots you'll get about 55 different briefs.

I would modify it a little, but as I said, its fine as it is.

I would say something like:

Today I am flying a Duchess. VMCA is 65 knots, Takeoff safety speed is 80kts, and best rate of climb is 85kts.

For an engine failure prior to rotation I will close both throttles and stop on the runway. *You may not be applying even braking*

My decision point today is selection of gear up.

If I have an engine failure prior to the decision point, I will land the aircraft on any remaining runway or any clear area ahead. *I would mention options, eg if there is golf course not far from the runway*

If I have an engine failure after the decision point, I will maintain control of the aircraft. When under control I will select Mixture Up, Pitch Up, Power Up, check gear is up and select Flap Up. I will identify the failed engine, using Dead Leg/Dead Engine, confirm with the thrust lever and feather.

If the aircraft is not performing adequately I will land in any clear area ahead.

If the aircraft is performing adequately, I will......

This is when the crux of the real briefing comes in. For a nice VMC day your concept of doing a circuit is a good one. When IFR, the brief concentrates more on the IMC threats, just as safety height, SID, obstacles, will you meet minimum gradient and return options etc. The IMC brief is another subjective one ;).

As you get more experience and move out of the training environment you'll find the basic engine failure drill gets abridged a fair bit, however even if you don't actively brief these items, make sure you think through them before takeoff.

[flywatcher]

I haven't noticed anyone put in the last line, as I assume you have an instructor or perhaps a renewal

"If the real thing happens I will fly the aircraft, you will monitor the airspeed, we will both confirm the dead engine before we feather it. Are you happy with that?"

I would consider it important that the allocation of responsibility if the real thing happens is very clearly understood and whether the person in the right seat takes over or helps out depends on the nature of the flight.

[john_tullamarine]

Several observations ...

(a) pitch up/power up needs to consider engine limitations especially on the higher performance piston twins and regarding turbine temperatures on the propjets. Give some thought to OEM recommendations in respect of gear and flap, albeit that, for the smaller twins, you really are not likely to go any place unless the gear is up and the flap is either up or to a recommended low flap position.

(b) with a lower performance piston light twin, especially with a good load, higher elevation and OAT (particularly if MTOW < 6000lb), you might be better off preconditioning for a crash landing rather than trying to climb away ? Not a pretty sight if you try to go and then get suckered into trying to keep going as the speed decays and you end up going in inverted. You are not helped by the dearth of useful performance information in the typical POH. OEI, for the typical light twin, you should plan on not much climb performance unless you are empty on a cold day at sea level .. ie know your OEI performance and plan the takeoff around it.

Climb gradient required is e.g. 3.3% (from SID) which = XXX fpm at Vyse

Fine, but OEI, forget it and have a lower gradient alternative planned or else plan on throwing the aircraft back onto the ground right way up.

(c) past blue line speed Blue line is a variable figure if you want to try and get the best out of the aircraft.

If you are going out of a tight strip, you might not have the luxury of looking for blue line until you get a bit of height and that might be a luxury in itself. Having said that, if you have some fat in the runway length, somewhere around blue line makes a lot more sense that TOSS.

When you look at the shape of the climb versus speed curve, (real world for the day) blue line is desirable but not essential. If the runway length doesn't give you the option, you need to have made the decision whether to throw it back on the ground or keep going before you start the roll. You might well do better dragging it away somewhere between TOSS and blue line rather than crashing, perhaps unnecessarily, into those big trees off the end of the strip ?

(d) landing on any available runway One needs to be careful that you don't over estimate the capability to get back onto the runway .. I've seen many folk over estimate the remaining runway's value. It's a good idea to have a look at the takeoff and landing distances and figure some data based rules of thumb for your particular aircraft and then relate those to the airport diagrams for distance references .. taxiways etc., are very useful reference points.

It is very important to know your aircraft and fit your emergency brief to suit the match of aircraft to runway, considering the extent to which tiger country exists off the end of the strip.

(e) If I have an engine failure before reaching my decision point I will close both throttles and land/pull up on the remaining runway. I will signify reaching my decision point by retracting the gear.

Sounds like a good philosophy. Hopefully your decision point assessment will be reasonable. The philosophy at least gives you a good chance of crashing under control. As many of the early pros observed, if you need to crash, you are best off keeping under control and flying it as far into the crash as you are able.

(f) 5 deg bank is NOT for performance, rather it is required to achieve the Vmca figures built into the POH limitations - Vmca is VERY bank dependent - for example, the B52 Vmca goes up something like 30-35 kts if you bank it the wrong way.

Once you are somewhat above the Vmca region, you can disregard the 5 deg. OEI, for almost all multis, best performance is around 2-3 deg into the live engine(s). The rudder input (ball, if you like) needs to achieve zero sideslip. Unless you have a sideslip gauge (like Concorde - post #18 (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/110180-oei-why-does-balance-ball-show-slip.html)), or a string on the nose, you can only work to flight test recommendations (or do some tests to work out the inputs required as an exercise yourself)

Once you have a bit of spare speed, if you are having trouble holding a bit of bank, consider just flying wings level. In general 2-3 degrees gives you the (marginally) best climb and wing level/5 degrees bank generally give similar (generally marginally less) climb performance. Don't be afraid to make it a bit easier and fly wings level if that eases the workload back to a manageable level. If you are right on the limit of climbing, you might need the small bank angle, but it is more important to keep the workload under control, even if that means a shallow descent wings level while you get yourself back on the mark.

(g) Vmca appears to figure in most of the briefs. In essence, it is largely irrelevant. TOSS incorporates Vmca and has a modest margin above Vmca build into the TOSS value - you have NO business getting slower than TOSS. Another point to keep in mind is that the book value for Vmca (which everyone bandies about) is an artefact of a certification flight test process where higher altitude FT figures are extrapolated to sea level. In general, the real world Vmc for the day will be a different to the book figure so the book figure is a bit on the rubbery side for the pilot with the failure on the day.

(h) If the real thing happens I will fly the aircraft, you will monitor the airspeed, we will both confirm the dead engine before we feather it.

If you are in a training environment, add to that something like "you will return all switches/controls you have manipulated to their normal position while I fly the aircraft".

I know that pulling mixtures at TOSS + 10 is the catchcry. However, for all my renewals, my brief ALWAYS included something along the lines of "if you touch anything below 200/300ft (which I would choose, according to the runway and surroundings), be prepared for me to close the throttles and land straight ahead". No-one ever put me to the test. In fact, no-one ever queried my direction, ATO or DCA/CASA examiner alike .. I guess most of them were not interested in exposing themselves to silly and pointless hazards any more than I was.

I've had at least two former very experienced GA instructor colleagues who were keen on doing silly things and they both ended up in smoking holes near the runway.

You just don't need to play heroes with light twins near the ground .. something between very stupid and unbelievably stupid. The FAR 25 Type is designed for pulling throttles at V1, the FAR 23 lightie isn't.

[Troopy]

HI guys. All this sound pretty good. My 2 bob is KISS ( Keep it simple stupid). I have had a couple of failures, and have realised it doesn't happen as briefed.
99% of the time you'll have the mix rich, pitch up and power up. you would have confirmed this as you applied T/O power, so I would not waste my time confirming this when your main priority is to get the gear up, Identify the dead engine, confirm it and feather it and maintain control.
No need to brief yourself that you'll fly to the msa and conduct the approach in IMC, because thats what you'll do anyway
You could say that you'll maintain Vyse but if your not performing your min speed will be Vmca ( Dont use blue line or red line because if your flying old GA machines who's to say that those are correct. I once flew a 404 that was fitted with a IAS that was for a chieftain. )
Another point is make sure the engine is actualy dead, if it is still producing power it's better to keep it going till atleast the MSA it might not have 300hp but 100hp is better than none. this may have resulted from dodgy magnetos which I have had, you test them on the ground, runs fine. Once airbourne though the gremlins come out.
One last point. If the plane has been flying for the last 2 mins then it'll fly for the next 22mins, ie catch your breath and don't stuff it.

Just my 2 bob

[john_tullamarine]

if you're not performing your min speed will be Vmca

That would be a silly proposition, I suggest. If you are not performing around blue line, then you will be going down faster at TOSS and (possibly very much) faster again at Vmca. In a nutshell, one ought never to be contemplating reducing speed below TOSS other than for a Vmca demonstration (and that ought only to be done for an initial twin endorsement) .. silly strategy and just increases the risk of converting a controlled crash landing into a fatal.

It is the height of folly to set yourself up to convert a salvageable situation into an inflight Vmca departure and subsequent fatal ground impact.

I once flew a 404 that was fitted with a IAS that was for a chieftain

There are rules for the maintainers but it doesn't help if they are ignored. However, the AFM will cite the relevant speeds so there is no excuse for simply not knowing what the book speeds are.

[Capt Fathom]

You'll find that many manuals will publish different blue line speeds for different weights.

The blueline on the ASI is normally for Max TOW.

Smaller twins may only use the one speed to cover all weights.

Eg. 65kts in an Islander covers every-bloody-thing!

[Jay Bo]

FL170, here's a book worth reading.
Flying high performance single and twins by John C Eckalbar.
Just google his name and order direct. Cheaper than amazon.
Thanks to the ppruner that gave me the info last year when I was beginning my initial.

[Tee Emm]

The subject is engine failure on take off in a light twin. Every second you waste delaying the feathering of the dead engine will significantly reduce the chances of a safe climb gradient. Presumably, you will already have full power on both engines from the start of the take off run up to at least 1000 fet agl. No point therefore in talking yourself through the mantra of mixture up, pitch up, throttle up and so on. You are wasting critical feathering time.

Same as pulling back the throttle of the suspect engine just to confirm it really is cactus and not delivering power. You have already confirmed that by instinctively correcting for the yaw towards the failed engine. That is the primary identification. Carefully and slowly pulling back the throttle of the suspect engine takes several vital seconds when you should be feathering the dead engine propeller. For every few seconds you have taken with mumbling away to yourself about mixture up, pitch up etc you are losing airspeed since the dead engine is now windmilling. In some aircraft, the drag from a windmilling propeller is more than the drag from an extended landing gear. For every five seconds of windmilling drag you stand to lose five or more knots of airspeed unless you are quick to lower the nose and descend. You may not have the spare altitude to descend, so early feathering becomes vital.

Carrying on from the above mantra taught by flying schools, don't blindly retract the flaps unless you have the correct minimum speed available. On some types you may lose lift and sink. Don't leave the landing gear extended after lift off until you think you can no longer have the runway available to land ahead. Think about it. The longer you leave the landing gear extended (just in case you might have an engine failure...) the slower the acceleration towards safe single engine climb speed. You will need much more runway ahead than you would think if you are planning to slam-dunk back on the remaining runway from 50-100 feet or more - especially if the runway surface is wet from recent rain and you don't have anti-skid protection. In any case it is well nigh impossible to judge remaining distance at night from 100 feet in a nose high climb when you detect an engine failure. And you haven't factored in reaction times yet. Count on at least five seconds to react before deciding to nose over and try to land and pull up. In the Essendon Dove crash, the investigators found that five seconds was the minimum reaction time.

Read the accident reports to the Dove and Cessna 402 that crashed after take off from Essendon. One was fatal the other not. In both cases the propellers of the failed engines were not feathered. It was the windmilling of the failed engine propellers that caused both aircraft to experience massive drag. In turn this led to loss of control. Same with the Kingair that crashed at Sydney after engine failure after take off from runway 25. The prop was never feathered.

While the standard flying school engine failure mantra mentioned in the earlier posts is probably OK for initial multi-engine training "ab-initio" students, instructors should be careful to caution their students that the order of drills may not be applicable to every light propeller twin.

Summary: After airborne retract the landing gear as soon as a positive rate of climb is obvious. Accept the inevitable that there will always be a "dead man's gap" lasting a few seconds between lift off and safe single engine climb. If an engine failure happens in that short period, there is little you can do except to deal with it depending on operational conditions at the time. Much depends on your personal level of flying skill.

Complicated "catch-all" take off safety briefings like those described above, are quickly forgotten and although these can sound very professional, in real life they may serve no useful purpose. In real life, you have to play it by ear depending on flight conditions at the time.

One thing is for sure. The more you faff around mumbling rote drills if an engine fails at a critical time in the take off process, the more likely you will run into control difficulties until you get the dead engine prop quickly feathered. On that point, it is worthwhile noting the time it takes for the prop to commence feathering action during the run-up. There have been cases where the feathering action has been unduly slow. Experience will tell if the time for feathering during the run-up check is normal or slow.

A slow feathering prop could mean disaster if an engine fails shortly after take off. More than 10 seconds actuation time could mean trouble and the defect should be recorded in the maintenance release.

Caution: All the above is someone's personal opinion. Treat it as such.

[Unhinged]

A light twin flown correctly for pitch, yaw and roll will not fall out of the air in the few moments it takes you to confirm which engine has failed.

However, feathering the wrong propellor because you've decided that the immediate thing to do is pull one of the prop controls all the way back without verifying the problem, will most certainly seal your fate.

Students and line pilots have attempted to feather the wrong propellor in flight when their brain is full. I've seen it many times, and, like most multi-engine instructors, been the only thing that's stopped them from actually doing it. If an engine fails on take-off you need to feather without undue delay, but not without thinking or checking.

If you do not take the time to fly the aircraft first and confirm which engine has failed, you're a bloody idiot and one day you will get it horribly wrong.

[tio540]

When it happens for real it won't perform like in training with just you, the instructor, and half fuel. Just my two bobs worth.

[Peter Fanelli]

Eg. 65kts in an Islander covers every-bloody-thing!


Climb, cruise and descent?

:E

[baron_beeza]

Close Peter,

The cruise figure is possibly a little higher... but as the guys are saying it is 65kts.- for almost everything. The only other figures I can think of are the stall and VMCA and they are down around 50kts. The stall generally being the higher of the two.
Similarly the figure to use for the Trisander is 80kts, for everything, - that explains the ground performance difference. The Islander can get in and out of almost anywhere, - certainly when empty.

[j3pipercub]

You leave the old bongo alone, they're gorgeous...

j3

[tio540]

Top of the wing looks like the rivets on a steam trains boiler. Last good British plane was the Spitfire.

[RadioSaigon]

... the stall and VMCA and they are down around 50kts...

Try a 39KIAS stall and incipient VMCA roll a knot or 2 quicker on one.

[baron_beeza]

Yep, guilty for firing from the hip... had the 39 figure in mind but wasn't brave enough to commit it to the post. It has been a long time and I knew someone younger (better memory) or more recent experience would step in. Amazing figures really, - no wonder they perform so well. A real pilots' machine.

But 65 Kts is the figure.
I spend much time flying about in a Tomahawk and often wonder how much of a safety factor is built into the AFM numbers there also. Apologies for the thread hijack.

[RadioSaigon]

One thing that concerns me a little... many of these t/o briefs appear to assume a total power failure after liftoff, without considering some of the more subtle indicators of a partial power-loss which may only become apparent during the takeoff roll. Split needles on your MP gauge may be an indication to look for, particularly if getting to or over 2-3" difference; props sounding a "little more" out of sync than usual may indicate a lazy mill too; on aircraft that have seperate switches for L&R mags, any of the above may indicate that you have a dead mag or a switch not selected, or a more serious problem that may become a deafening silence on one side... I'm sure others will be able to add to that too.

From my admittedly limited experience of in-flight engine failures and discussion with others more experienced, it seems that a mill seldom lets go catastrophically in the 1st instance -there will usually be some sort of warning (rough running, vibration, engine gauge indications), something that will get you sitting up a bit straighter and paying attention, before it all goes pear-shaped.

I reckon if you got a warning like that whilst still on the runway or with sufficient runway ahead to land and stop, that'd be a pretty good time & place to start doing something about it. Similarly, if just airborne you get a warning, don't sit there waiting to see what's going to happen; get a wriggle on, get a plan and start acting on it -the sooner the better! Let the crook mill generate as much power as it's able for as long as it can -it just may make the difference!