Horsa Glider project

[Krystal n chips]

Shame it will never fly, however, an interesting project to say the least.

BBC - Shropshire - Glider volunteers aim for award (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/shropshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8137000/8137309.stm)

[parabellum]

Having watched numerous films of these gliders landing at Arnhem, D Day etc. what would be the landing speed? They all seem to be going at a hell of a lick.

[Evileyes]

There are some good sequences of landing Wacos in this video:

YouTube - Virtual Walkthrough Tour of Glider Museum, Lubbock, TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GGyICoyDAI&feature=channel)

This place just made my 'to do' list as well.

Silent Wings Museum (http://www.silentwingsmuseum.com/VISIT%20THE%20MUSEUM/visit.htm)

[henry crun]

parabellum: My BinL had quite a lot of trips in the Horsa practising for Arnhem, and then the actual landing, but I do not remember him mentioning the landing speed

Google says the normal gliding speed was 100mph, but I daresay that was increased on approach as they dived at the intended touchdown point.
The barn door type flaps down to almost 90 degrees would have quickly washed off any excess speed as soon as they leveled out to land.

[parabellum]

Thanks Henry, appreciated.

[snapper41]

Having watched numerous films of these gliders landing at Arnhem, D Day etc. what would be the landing speed? They all seem to be going at a hell of a lick.

A Horsa pilot veteran told me the landing speed was around 60 kts. He also said that they were a delight to fly - until you put 30 tooled-up troops and their kit down the back...

[Double Zero]

Airspeed Test Pilot Robin ' Bob ' Milne was much involved with the Horsa development.

He described one day the tow aircraft ( forget the type ) was hit by lightning, which conducted down the tow-wire; no particular problems but interesting.

He also suffered an unintentional tow separation, resulting in him landing in a field fitted with ' anti-landing ' stakes.

The intact aircraft was recovered a couple of days later but as usual there was much explaining to the local constabulary.

There's another account where George Errington was flying a Horsa, and found significant CofG problems; when he thought he'd lost it, he ran to the aft to bail out, then it steadied - he rushed forward to the controls, only to find it oscillate again - this time he stayed with it to a successful outcome.

As the pilot of the tow aircraft put it, " I thought he'd gone for the Elsan ! ".

I have access to 'Bob' Milne's logbooks, if of any use.

[HighTow]

Speeds for a fully loaded Horsa I were:
Stalling speed, flaps up: 69mph
Stalling speed, flaps down: 55mph
Gliding speed, flaps up: 85mph
Gliding speed, flaps half down: 75mph
Landing speed: 75-80mph.Landing speeds when empty was only 60mph. Glide ratio was about 1:5 with the flaps down.

Now if you wanna see some really steep/slow/short landings... British Pathe - BRITISH GLIDERS AND PLANES LANDING (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=58025)

[teeteringhead]

Shawbury is certainly worth a visit on the Assault Glider Trust Open Days .... they had one last week (combined with Armed Forces Day) so I guess there won't be one for a while.

I've also seen a video (can't exactly remember the title as I'm not where the vid is at the moment - something like Silently to War) which includes the larger Hamilcar - carrying a Sherman tank! Also in the video were snatch take-offs in the Waco, you just sat there while the passing Dak hooked you up ...... obviously didn't have whiplash injury compensation in those days!

[wz662]

A hamilcar wouldn't, couldn't, carry a Sherman. What you saw was probably an M22 Locust (which to be fair looks a little like a Sherman).

I have some issues with some of the aspects of the Horsa build at Shawbury, noteably the heaviness of the cockpit window framing and the main undercarriage attachments but I still applaude their efforts, especially as they are also producing a 'flat pack' kit Horsa for an American museum.

Amongst the lesser known facts about the Horsa are that it was the first British aircraft (world 1st?) to airdrop supplies from a roller floor and also the 1st British aircraft to drop double sticks of parachutists. It was also capable of snatch launch by Dakota.

[snapper41]

wz662:

I'm confused - why would a glider air-drop supplies, or drop parachutists? Surely that's a job for powered aircraft.:confused:

[wz662]

One has to remember that following Churchill's 1940 memo to form an Airborne Corps, the UK was pretty clueless as how to go about it. They didn't have a parachute they could use and the first gliders they used were impressed single seat sports jobs.
The first real assault glider the UK came up with was the 8 man Hotspur because that was similar in size to the DFS 230 the Gemans had used (by the way parachute trials were also carried out from Hotspurs).
Aircraft to carry paratroops didn't exist and only a few obsolete Whitleys were obtained from a reluctant Bomber Command. Luckily the Whitley (and the bombers that followed it) had been built as bomber transports and also to take a ventral turret, removing this turret gave a usable (but not ideal) exit for paratroops. Both the Witley and Wellington carried only 10 parachutists so to suppliment those troops the gliders that followed the Hotspur, the Hengist and Horsa were both designed with paratroops in mind. The idea being that both glider and tug would return for more paratroops, a sensible idea if you only have limited numbers of aircraft.
Of course the UK found sufficient aircraft and the benifits of landing 28 troops close together in a glider rather than spread all over a DZ was seen as a better idea so the idea of paratrooping from gliders was dropped.
In recent years I've stood on a DZ and watched a full Hercules load of paras (90) jump and because of the DZ being hot/high and the aircarft run being down wind the last man out was 7.5 km from the first. I thought that maybe the day of the assault glider wasn't dead.