Redundancies at Orlando Flight Training

[ShipShape 79 Charlie]

A sign of the times maybe, but Andrew McLaird who many of you will know as the JAA Chief Flight Instructor and FAA Part 141 Chief pilot at Orlando Flight Training was made redundant yesterday..........I wish him well and hope he is back in Flight Training soon. The industry cannot afford to lose people like Andrew, this is a big blow for flight training standards in Florida!!

A word of caution for the current students, check with the authorities that your training is still valid without a post holder!!

[Brian304]

Yes I personally knew Andrew back in 2006, nice guy, nice and relaxed in the cockpit. I guess its the sign of reccession, but i'm sure he'll be back in a job very soon.

Best of luck to andrew...

I agree with "shipshape 79 charlie" those guys currently in training due to finish, or thinking of going there, you better check if your authority will issue your license when you get home, because some authoritys WILL NOT issue your license due to no CFI within the FTO.

So who does the flight tests now then? paul?...

Goodluck guys:ok:

[Mordacai]

That sucks, sorry to hear that.

I'd be interested to know how OFT 'intend' to continue to operate without a JAA CFI? Their JAA approval will surely be suspended until he is replaced.

Maybe the HOT will take both jobs.

Anyone training their now, or about to train there needs to ensure that their approvals are still in place.

[BigGrecian]

Yeap I'd be more than a little concerned if I were a JAA student at OFT right now. :bored:

[Tootles the Taxi]

Was under the impression that there is no redundancy legislation as we know it in the U.K. however if the JAA CFI & 141 Chief positions have been made 'redundant' surely that suggests that JAA & 141 training has ceased at OFT? Is the HoT based in the U.S.A ?

[redout]

Andrew McLaird is a top guy. Done my PPL skills test with him a few years back. Nice chap and so easy to talk to in the cockpit unlike majority of examiners if the truth be told. Wish him all the best for future endeavours.

[B2N2]

Surprised to hear that..best of luck to him.

[labrat28]

Good luck Andrew, you will be missed.

[zerotohero]

Not supprised to hear that at all

OFT go up and down like a roller coaster, when there down they treat the students crap, when there up they treat them even worse as theres more of them to rape of cash!

very bad school and I have a lot of experiance in Florida with flight training, its a shame the only two excellent schools I would 100% reccommend to people only do FAA.

[toff]

The departure of Andrew is a shame. As a student at Orlando Flight Training myself, he quickly resolved one minor issue I had when training for my PPL. I hear that a new Chief Pilot has been found, however, and he/she is expected next week.

But to say that Orlando Flight Training treats students like 'crap' is a little unfair. I admit, of the numerous staff I have come into contact with, a small number have not been approachable or friendly, but the majority are fine. I am sure that you will encounter one or two jobsworths at any flying school though.

[davey147]

I wish Andy the best of luck, I remember him from his days at Naples Air Centre back in 2004!! Great guy.

[zerotohero]

I dont find it unfair at all, I have made many friends from flight training who were all at some point at OFT and are now flying the skys along side me in the airlines over here in europe and all have the same opinion of OFT!

I am yet to meet someone in the airlines that says there a good school! met people at PPL level that have yes, but I think lack of knowlage of the industry clouds judgement a little.

I still maintain an interest in flight training as a current FAA CFI and hence posting on this forum as well as the airline ones.

you can do a hell of a lot better than OFT! sadly not sure where for JAA?

[totomechanic]

"zerotohero".... what makes OFT so bad? and what schools would you recommend then for FAA training. Naples? Ormond beach? FlightSafety?

I have my PPL and I'm looking to complete my FAA IR CPL MEL. only have $20000 saved up so far.

[Fingermouse]

All the best to Andrew, he seemed like a good guy from what little I knew of him. I hope they get a new chief pilot very soon who knows how to take care of things in the proper manner.

In response to an above point:
I am currently training at oft, if you can call it training. The training I am recieving is *How to deal with flight schools 101* which while it will stand me in good stead for my ATPLs CPL etc, it isn't what I paid for! I need to be completing my PPL instead!!

The ground school program here I did not need to take as it covers simple concepts and some points which can be pulled from any basic aviation reading material -This was $1000+ thrown away. The flying instruction was useful at first but now I have a grasp of the plane I need to be flying solo to improve, which oft's instructor seems reluctant to let me do so I need to continue paying dual instruction hours(????!!!!) I don't think so. I expect the attitude of any business to be professional and an aviation TRAINING business should be at the height of good practice, unfortunately some staff members need to be reminded of their postion it seems. Nothing adds up here apart from the fact they want all of your money and they want it now, that is the only point which holds firm here.

Advice for any budding students, know exactly how many hours of what type of flying you need to complete to pass the PPL as oft will book flights for you to complete with a view to 'learning', which are NOT neccessary, also extra ground school sessions which need to be paid for, which are NOT good value by any estimation.

[toff]

zerotohero, you say, "I dont find it unfair at all, I have made many friends from flight training who were all at some point at OFT and are now flying the skys along side me in the airlines over here in europe and all have the same opinion of OFT!" Now, maybe I am missing something, but you say that these friends of yours have been at Orlando Flight Training at some point and that they are now flying alongside you in the airlines. Surely, any school that get you to the required standard to work for an airline is a good one. As for yet again telling us all that the school is a bad one, I am not sure it is up to you to make that decision. Clearly, you have not been a student there yourself, and you are basing your opinions on experiences of friends. Perhaps you could elaborate on what makes the school a bad one?

Fingermouse, I was in the same situation as you when training for my PPL with OFT. I felt ready to fly solo and I was eager to get up and to fly by myself but it never seemed to happen. I was taking more lessons than I wanted to but I got there eventually. I think it very much depends on who the instructor is. Knowing that they get paid only for the time that they fly or spent doing ground studies, it is unsurprising that some abuse the system and book more flights than are required. Again, I was happy with what went on during my PPL days. I trusted my instructor and he got me through the PPL. Contrary to your comments about flights booked that weren't required, I was told on several occasions by my instructor that booked flights had been cancelled because they "weren't necessary" and that taking them would be a "waste of time and money". That goes to show that not every instructor at the school is corrupt and after your money.

I admit that the school has weaknesses but I am certain that no school is perfect. And if OFT can get me to where I one day want to be, I would have no problem in recommending them to anyone.

[BigGrecian]

I need to be flying solo to improve, which oft's instructor seems reluctant to let me do so

I'm sorry but you are in absolutely no position to judge whether you are at a point to go solo. This is entirely the instructors decision as it his name and licence on the endorsement if anything were to go wrong. Instructors are always taught if there is any doubt there is no doubt, and you don't send the student solo.
In fact even as a CPL holder your won't be in a position to judge. You need about 200 hours of instruction to be able to judge effectively whether someone is ready to fly solo.

If your doing extra flights and are on a JAA course there should be an accountability system. I.e if you are doing more hours than the syllabus you are following allows then you will be repeating the lessons until they are satisfactory. Check your records, and if you do not feel you need the repeat speak to the CFI - oh I forgot they don't have a CFI (and therefore shouldn't even be conducting JAA training - I'd call the CAA and ensure they will accept your training - as they have every right not to) However, the CFI will normally side with the instructor as safety NOT your wallet is the priority.
A good flight school will not discuss your fininancial situation when talking about your ability and will just treat you as a student and will send you only when ready etc. The pressures are yours - not the instructors or the schools.

If you worried about the quality of instruction with your FAA instructor ask for a JAA FI - or should have gone to a JAA school with JAA FIs!

Just trying to make you think about the other side of the argument - which either way your financials shouldn't even enter.

PS I don't work for or have never trained at OFT, but have given over 2000 hours instruction.

[zerotohero]

toff

yes I was a student there, also a CFI very briefly as visa expired not long after qualifying, but I finished my CPL IR with Air Orlando at exec as OFT aircraft were constantly going tech and a lot of time was wasted getting back up to speed again, also the instructors there were trying to rape students for extra multi training hours and so would not do productive lessons in order to drag it out! multi is a big thing to get as a CFI as it can be your ticket to the regionals,,,,, people might say I was wrong saying there not needed from a student point of view just wanting to finish,, but I am also now a CFI and MEI myself and so know the in's and out's of teaching twin flying!

I then went on the do my CFI with OFT, (basicly my visa was for there so i had to be seen to be making an effort to fly there even if they were not making an effort with me,,,, again the training was useless, there was no course structure, just random CFI's winging it on a daily basis and so I went across the field to Sunstate to get it done and did the writtans with American Flyers who I have to say are awesome for passing them, they really are the masters.

the above three schools are all very good.

as for my friends been at OFT, its pretty much the same story as me, they all decided to bugger off elsewhere to finish up apart from one who battled through frustrated as hell, but went for the better the devil you know than the one you dont.
yes we are all up there in the flight levels now and its great, and I did get some great initial PPL training at OFT, but this was down to my initial CFI who was a great guy, ex military and knew how to act and get a job done so there was not much interaction needed from management needed then thankfully. apart from the fact I was a cabair student and had paid the course with them and they took forever to wire OFT the training money and so every day I had to have an argument with flight dispatch as to why my account was in the red! and then they would call upstairs to the big bad boss who would say yes its fine hes with cabair let him fly! this went on day after day after day because they hire jobsworths that come and go with the trash and caused unnecessery stress.

my advice to people looking for FAA is either Sunstate at KISM or Air Orlando at Orlando exec! both these schools are very well run and treat the customer as just that, The customer! they will bend over backwards for you.

hope that helps.

p.s. i know the spelling and grammer is crap before someone gets over excited and posts about that too! who ever thought it,, get over yourself and get a beer or get laid.

[BritishGuy]

I won't either bother justifying myself, but will say you're probably a novice and an amature at this point (TOFF). You'll find out the hard way. Until then you can consider the rest of us fools. And lets not call it a "redundancy" and make it sound nice and official. The guy probably turned up to work and was told that he's not needed anymore with no severance pay or anything. So in short - he was told to fark off. Not given a nice 'redundancy' letter and a golden parachute. So lets say it how it is firstly.

EX OFT instructor (JAA and FAA) and ex-American Flyers instructor here. OFT are there to rape you for your cash. Many bad flight schools out there, but trust me, I've had grown men cry to me about how OFT have taken their cash with no remorse.

From what I hear they place such commercial pressure on head staff their that even the very rare helpful people there find that they have to turn into assh*les and make people fly extra just to save their own positions. Looks like the ex-CP's reign to MAKE people fly just ran out. In all fairness though - with the downturn in the economy, fewer and fewer people are attending OFT. Numbers have dropped significantly.

Thankfully - I say this with a sign of relief, I don't have to put up with any of the monkey business there now. But do feel for those naive enough not to research their place of training. And for those of those that think "well it got X amount of people to the airlines" - well OFT can get you to the airlines. No doubt it. After you've paid 2-3 time what you should have normally paid.... HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHA!!!

[gg190]

From my experience of Mr McLaird, there is nobody more deserving of redundancy than he.

[destinationsky]

Andrew is now instructing at EFT in FT Pierce.
I passed my PPL last weekend with him as my instructor. Went solo in 6 days and passed the skills test after 22 days. Great instructor and all round nice guy.
I wish him the best of luck with whatever he chooses to do in the future!

[punk666]

Andrew is now back at OFT!