Recognition for those who perish whilst in conflict

[WASALOADIE]

New medal announced

The Elizabeth Medal

BBC NEWS | UK | New Queen's award for forces dead (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8128582.stm)

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45996000/jpg/_45996747_cross226.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45996000/jpg/_45996798_scroll226.jpg

New Queen's award for forces dead


The Queen has approved a new honour in her name for members of the armed forces who are killed in action or as a result of a terrorist attack.

The Elizabeth Cross will be awarded to the families of those killed.
In a personal message to service personnel, the Queen said the emblem was "a right and proper way of showing our enduring debt".
It will be available to the relatives of all those killed in conflicts since the end of World War II.
The emblem will be made of sterling silver in the shape of a cross and a wreath, and will feature the rose, thistle, shamrock and daffodil to represent soldiers from England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.
It will be awarded along with a Memorial Scroll signed by the Queen and bearing the name of the individual killed.

'Enduring loss'

Gordon Brown announced the new award during Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons on Wednesday.
He said: "I am confident that this will be a very special and fitting tribute indeed for the great debt we owe to all those who die on operations and the enduring loss shouldered by their families."
The Queen explained her motivation for instituting the award in a special radio message on the British Forces Broadcasting Service.

"This seems to me a right and proper way of showing our enduring debt to those who are killed while actively protecting what is most dear to us all," she said.
"The solemn dignity which we attach to the names of those who have fallen is deeply engrained in our national character.
"As a people, we accord this ultimate sacrifice the highest honour and respect."

The Ministry of Defence estimates that about 8,000 families could be eligible for the award.
It says it will contact the families of those who have died since 2000 about receiving it, but relatives of those killed before that date will be required to apply themselves.
They will then be able to decide whether they wish to receive the award publicly or in private.

'Immense pride'

It is the first time the name of a reigning monarch has been given to a new award since 1940.

Then King George VI introduced the George Cross, the highest honour for civilian acts of bravery.
Before this, the Victoria Cross was introduced by Queen Victoria in 1856 for exceptional gallantry by members of the armed forces.
The chief of the defence staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, said relatives would wear the Elizabeth Cross with "immense pride".
He said: "It is a reminder not just of the ultimate price their loved ones have paid while safeguarding our security and freedom, it is also a lasting symbol of the nation's recognition of and gratitude for their sacrifice."
The Cross will be available to all those killed since 1948 in conflicts including the Falklands War and Northern Ireland Troubles.
Personnel who died in Palestine between September 1945 and the end of 1947 will also be eligible.
It will apply to regular and reserve personnel and will cover those who died in battle and later as a result of injuries received in the field.

Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said: "The Elizabeth Cross was recommended by the military chiefs to Her Majesty to recognise the huge debt this country owes to the families those brave individuals have left behind."

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif It is a lasting symbol of the nation's recognition of and gratitude for their sacrifice http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Air Chief Marshal Jock Stirrup

[Lima Juliet]

RAF - News by Date (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.cfm?storyid=36714852-5056-A318-A83B32615FEAD937)

BRAVO!!! :D:D:D

[NutLoose]

Sorry I do not see it that way



I think if someone said thanks and gave me a bit of tin with a ribbon on it as a "consolation prize" for losing a loved one, I would tell them where to shove it, and shove it so far up that when they smiled it would twinkle in the sunlight..........
Give them a decent bloody pension that they can live on...........
This all Smacks of Labour bloody spin again to paper over the cracks of crap equipment, lack of support and to make them feel good.........


There I have had my say... :mad:

[Tankertrashnav]

Must disagree Nutloose. This is reviving a tradition that we had in WW1 when bronze memorial plaques and scrolls were given to the next of kin of soldiers and sailors who died. In 30 years of dealing I have had scores pass through my hands, some polished almost flat by families who obviously treasured them as a reminder of their loved one's loss.

Incidentally the Canadians had a similar cross in WW1 and WW2, but I am not sure if it is still being awarded. The design of the new Elizabeth Medal is very similar to the original Canadian cross.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

I was initially a bit worried about some ambiguity in the BBC article - 'killed in action'/'killed in conflicts'/'those who die on operations'/'died in battle'

But the MoD link nails it:-

Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | The Elizabeth Cross ? Died On Operations Recognition Award (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/TheElizabethCrossDiedOnOperationsRecognitionAward.htm)
Those who died from whatever cause whilst serving on a medal earning operation. Medal earning operations are those in which deployed personnel received a Campaign Medal, General Service Medal or Operational Service Medal which demonstrated the risk and rigour involved. Operations where a UN, NATO or other international body or other nations’ campaign medal was accepted for wear, in the absence of a UK medal also qualify.
Those who died as a result of an act of terrorism where the available evidence suggests that the Service person, whether on or off duty, was targeted because of his or her membership of the UK Armed Forces.
Those who died on a non-medal earning operational task where death has been caused by the inherent high risk of the task.
Those who died a subsequent and premature death as a result of an injury or illness attributed to the circumstances outlined above.http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Templates/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/E661CA4C-23DE-4481-B4AD-3B450C59C0E8/0/dpr_09_029_625x500.jpg&maxSize=210

But with the scroll and medal being issued to the NOK, I see the miniature being treated as a lapel badge.

[wingstoosmall]

So, can we not accept that this is an award to say a grand 'thank you' to both the troops and their families? These are the standards of the time. The recognition for the support of the troops' families and the understanding that their sons have given all in the pursuit of the mssion they have been given? Is it so hard to believe that HM has conceived this on her own? based upon her own opinion of the challenges facing today's military family? Have a little faith in those above politics.

Wings.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Although I have no argument against the new medal, I was irritated by the Truth Central headline;

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | History and Honour | Elizabeth Cross honours families of fallen troops (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/ElizabethCrossHonoursFamiliesOfFallenTroops.htm)

Elizabeth Cross honours families of fallen troops

Apart from the all pervasive “troops” label, surely it’s to honour the poor sod that was slotted in the call of duty. The emphasis on families does make it sound like a consolation prize. In that respect, I can see NutLoose's point

[Wensleydale]

As long as the cross is presented by the Royal Family at an investiture at the palace (should the families prefer)....... this will demonstrate that the country truely cares. However, I cannot imagine the grief of receiving one through the post. I trust that the presentation of these momentoes will be appropriate and not as an afterthought.

[Wensleydale]

Having made my previous post about the presentation, I later discovered the DIN on the Stn Website. The cross will presented at either:

a. The Funeral

b. At a formal regional medal ceremony - presented by Lord Lieutenant or a senor military officer

c. Sent by recorded delivery.


I still think that the palace is the suitable place.

W

[Tankertrashnav]

I still think that the palace is the suitable place.




Agreed Wensleydale. If all 8.000 who were entitled claimed the cross it might be a problem, but I somehow dont think that's going to happen.

[parabellum]

My family lost our brother in 1966, in Aden, we will be applying for the medal, to hand down to children, lest we forget. My sister, who has a serving son and a retired husband wrote:

" I think that Gordon Brown has woken up to the fact that if you are going to starve all three services of everything they need to be an effective fighting force, and yet still expect them to come up with the goods, you need to raise the profile of the services, so it looks as if you think they are important - so we get quite a number of parades these days - yesterday the Navy went from Yeovilton to 10, Downing street, and then on to Clarence House. The TV gives national coverage to Wooton Bassett, the village nearest to where the bodies are flown home, as they turn out in force to pay their respects to the soldiers as the coffin goes past, this is good. The government has announced that what used to be called veterans day is now to be a day when the whole nation gives thanks to the services for their courage and dedication. Thanks don't cost anything, of course. Meanwhile, every day (son/nephew) finds that the engineering projects which he is responsible for managing are being further cut back, or cancelled, so that there is no possibility of taking pride in a job well done. The Navy has almost ceased to exist and the RAF has been reduced to the role of troop carriers, so a few well publicised parades, and the hand out of some medals is a timely way of hiding the fact that the government's value for its forces is actually a much lower item in its priorities than the spending on social security, so that all 16 year old unmarried mothers can have nice flats to live in".

I concur.

(ppr00ne need not respond).

[moosemaster]

I have to admit, I thought it was a good idea when I first heard it, but on reflection it's a bit of damp squib.

Recorded delivery indeed.

The whole thing would be great IF it formed part of a bigger plan to assist the families left behind, or even form part of a bigger plan to help those still serving, but on it's own it's just cr@p.

[teeteringhead]

If all 8.000 who were entitled claimed the cross it might be a problem... not necessarily. Given the two facts:

1. Unlikely to be 100% take up of "back issues".

2. BP Garden Parties have a head count of about 7000 .....

One lavish commemorative Garden P, then accord it the same status as (say) a Level 3 award, ie Royal Investiture.

Cos once the backlog is cleared, I hope we have considerably fewer Liz Crosses than Level 3s ...... :(

[Wander00]

Worth seeing what RBL and other service charities, Families Association etc think, but Garden Party option might work, and then hopefully fewer of the new award than State awards, so present Elizabeth Crosses at normal BP investiture

Wander00

[A2QFI]

Some Journalist is already whining that the 'cross' is an inappropriate symbol for some religions/recipients.

[racedo]

Wonder is there an award for kicking a journalist in the Nuts :rolleyes:

More than happy to offer services as an expert witness......Yup your honour he tripped and felll onto someones shoe, tragic accident but least he will never breed.

A fitting honour is to ensure those left behind are looked after suitably.

[mr fish]

present precious metal prices,

GOLD ounce $930.10

SILVER ounce $13.3

so, now you CAN put a price on a life:(

[Tankertrashnav]

GOLD ounce $930.10

SILVER ounce $13.3

Hardly relevant Mr Fish. What do you think an ounce of bronze is worth? 10p? That's what the Victoria Cross is made of and that is the most highly prized medal of them all. Or are you saying the higher the intrinsic value the greater the honour?

[minigundiplomat]

Hardly relevant Mr Fish. What do you think an ounce of bronze is worth? 10p? That's what the Victoria Cross is made of and that is the most highly prized medal of them all. Or are you saying the higher the intrinsic value the greater the honour? Yesterday 21:42


Agreed. Although the VC is made of bronze as it was traditionally smelted from the last surviving bronze cannon from Sevestapol.

But then Ive had a few, and could be wrong.

[Al R]

The Op Corporate gong was posted to the families of survivors in pieces.. like those freebies you got in a packet of cornflakes which had to be hand assembled. Thank god, things have moved on. Some families will not want to attend a ceremony but for some, the postal service might be the best way and I'm sure it won't be done in a cackhanded manner. In reality, units will probably undertake the task, with COs and or mates being involved and the medal handed over at a private celebration of the deceased's life.

No, it wouldn't make the grief go away but over the years, it might help - how many 'victims' of the past 30 years or so have already slipped from memory? There is still much to be done to help these families but this is a step in the right direction. Out of respect for those who are no longer here, we should look on this for what it represents to them and their memory.. and not what it might cynically mean to us. After all, we could apply the same thinking in principle to a survivor's pension - if that were introduced now, would it be branded as a 'pay off' and an admission of legal liability?

[taxydual]

Out of respect for those who are no longer here, we should look on this for what it represents to them and their memory..

Well said.

[chappie]

This is a suprise and one received in a plethora of emotions. there are so many feelings and thoughts and i am ashamed to say..questons swimming around my mind. what i will say is that it is good that there is recognition of the loss the families endure ( and colleagues too). However, there is one thing that should not be done...recorded delivery! that is one insult too far for my family.

NB Mr Fish, I appreciate the point that you are trying to make, but there really is no price that can be put on the lives of those lost.

[Tankertrashnav]

Although the VC is made of bronze as it was traditionally smelted from the last surviving bronze cannon from Sevestapol.



You are quite right about the source of the bronze mngd. A chap I know in the medal manufacturing trade recently visited Hancocks, the London jewellers who have have been making the VC since its inauguration. He was privileged to to be shown the plates of bronze kept in their strongroom from which they strike the crosses as required.

but there really is no price that can be put on the lives of those lost.

Agreed chappie, you could make it from 24 ct gold inset with diamonds and it still wouldn't represent 1% of a life's worth. What's important is it's a symbol, and I am prepared to believe it's a well-intentioned one.

[parabellum]

What's important is it's a symbol, and I am prepared to believe it's a well-intentioned one

Me too, but what took so bloody long? The soldiers in Aden died over forty years ago. None of what is happening now is original thought of the British Government, they would have happily ignored it, as they have for so long. The credit is due to those service organisations that have raised the issue and the quite impossible to ignore fact that in the region of 170 British servicemen have been killed in recent years.

[NutLoose]

I still think this is wrong

This sums all that is wrong in it.

"The Elizabeth Cross will be awarded to the families of those killed".

Awarded for what?? Having had a family member that got killed ?

It would have been better to been in my opinion to read something like

"The Elizabeth Cross will be postumously awarded to those killed in action whilst serving their Country and is presented to families and relatives from a grateful nation".

For want of a similar example, the way the USA presents the flag off the coffin to the next of kin from a grateful Nation..

Or something similar...... Just as well one was not coming my way as I would be returned with a note on it's future use and how to insert it.

Sorry but it rankles :mad:

[Al R]

Isn't that as 'pointless'? I don't mean to offend, but if one is killed for simply doing one's job, then could it not be argued that to be awarded it postumously is equally as 'pointless' as a family being awarded something for that family member being killed? This way, the sacrifice and pain of the family is recognised at the death of a loved one, as well as the sacrifice itself.

But aren't we getting into the semantics of the thing and missing what this is all about? Wood/trees etc.

[sidewayspeak]

Mrs Sidewayspeak is my long-term partner of many years, not my wife. How comforting for her that she will get a trinket if I die, rather than my pension that I have spent 20 years earning...

:mad::mad::mad:

[Bunker Mentality]

Better marry her sharpish, then, if it bothers you that much.

[Two's in]

If someone in the Government had put as much thought into acquiring military equipment that is fit for purpose in the first place, as they had riding the public's emotional bandwagon, there might not be as many "winners" getting this new award in the first place.

[Chugalug2]

This award has been named by HM the Queen, after herself. Thus it goes to the very core of what separates the UK Armed Forces from most of our allies and all of our potential enemies. She is the Commander in Chief, not a politician. When feelings run as high as they do over our losses in Iraq and Afghanistan and indeed in all the other campaigns such as Aden and Suez, that difference is all important. No doubt the dear leader has seen the political opportunities here and it is after all just a piece of metal, so if President Broon was behind this it would rightly be seen for what it was, a cheap trinket. Thank goodness it is the Queen who is behind it, and hence her nation. There is true awareness and recognition among the population of the duty done by our Armed Forces on our behalf, and the dreadful cost that can entail . I honestly believe that this award tries to reflect that. I hope that those fated to receive it see it that way themselves in the midst of their grief.

[Tankertrashnav]

Well put, Chugalug2.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Mrs Sidewayspeak is my long-term partner of many years, not my wife. How comforting for her that she will get a trinket if I die, rather than my pension that I have spent 20 years earning...


If she's not your NOK, then she won't get the 'trinket' either

[navibrator]

There is something not quite right about your NOK or most loved receiving a medal for your life. It is a recognition but the Queen, while being the Commander in Chief, doesn't send you in the first place. A handwritten heartfelt letter from the Prime Minister might be somewhat better - I believe Baroness Thatcher did exactly that in the Falklands War - GB has not as much as I know. But, each to their own I suppose and there will never be total agreement on this one. What will be key is how the recipients receive it. I have 4 medals and not one of them was presented to me officialy. I collected them all from admin the last one only last year so lets hope this is done better!

[Tankertrashnav]

The First World War death plaque I referred to earlier was accompanied by a facsimile letter from the King expressing his condolences on behalf of the nation. As there were over a million of these issued, he could hardly have signed them all personally. Casualties are bad enough at the moment, but not so many as would prevent HM from signing such a letter personally. Maybe someone high enough up the food chain could put it to her.

[cazatou]

With reference to SPHL's post #6

"This award is given to those who died on a Non Medal Earning Operational Task where death has been caused by the inherent high risk of the Task."

Does this mean, for example, that SAR Crewmen who sacrifice their lives in peacetime attempting to rescue people in the course of their duties will no longer be considered for Gallantry Awards?

[spheroid]

but the Queen, while being the Commander in Chief, doesn't send you in the first place.

Errr...yes she does. Its her train set and Gordon goes to see her each Tuesday to ask permission to play with it. If she didn't want to deploy her troops then she is well within her rights to question her Governments decision to deploy.


I have to agree with most of the forum with regards to Mrs Sidewaysspeak....... mate...if it bothers you that much then marry her....T'otherwise stop whinging

[Tankertrashnav]

Cazatou - No fear of SAR crews' gallantry not being recognised. Since 1918 the Air Force Cross and (up to 1992) the Air Force Medal have been awarded for acts of gallantry in a non-operational context, and I am sure this will continue to be the case. There's also the more recent Queen's Gallantry Medal.

But then I'm sure you knew that really ;)

[cazatou]

Tankertrashnav

WE both know that - but does the "Great Leader". It might, after all, be considered a "cost cutting" measure.

Incidentally, what odds do you think we could get on the Royal Regiment of Scotland being re-named "The Gordon Highlanders"? :hmm:

[Tankertrashnav]

Or The Brown Watch? ;)

[GPMG]

Nicknamed the 'one-eye's'...... or 'Idiots'.