25th Jun 2009, 15:09
Dear all guys, I'd like to advance a question for ATC controller in Madrid area if there are any in this forum (but also pilots used to this area)
I use to fly to Madrid Barajas from the east so performing most of the times the PRADO arrival, the last time we were descending according our profile when almost over Prado the atc gave us a vector (60 degrees offset) to lose altitude so we asked atc if there were any altitude restriction for prado and the answer was:" yes sir FL 210"
We coudnt found any reference on that in the charts...so is that a non written rule or am I missing something?
Thanks a lot for any help
26th Jun 2009, 11:41
For Prado 1D and 1E Arrivals: Max. alt @<hidden> prado is FL210 (min. is 8000ft).
27th Jun 2009, 13:31
Hi mokilu, ye thats only for the holding over prado....thanks anyway for your reply!
28th Jun 2009, 00:09
ALLSKY, you are correct. Normally MAD ATC instructs you to be FL210 or below at Prado, Aduxo and the other beginnings of the STARS.
I haven't seen it on any chart either.
28th Jun 2009, 10:26
Hi LD, ye this is not written in the chart...so its a kind of non written rule.
The thing is that very often they dont tell us nothing and then give "strange" vector to lose altitude when already over prado...anyway...
Next time I'll ask them in advance! :)
A nice sunday!
30th Jun 2009, 10:26
With MAD ATC, just expect the unexpected...
30th Jun 2009, 11:55
MAD ATC have a difficult job to do...two sets of parallel runways (36/18 R & L, 33/15 R & L) from which take-offs must be co-ordinated with landings to avoid conflicts during go-arounds, noise abatement restrictions after 23:00 LT reducing the number of runways available, stabalised approach criteria which vary between operators, high terrain to the North frequently resulting in G/S intercept from above and therefore grumpy pilots, adjacent light aircraft / Bizjet Airports, Pilots' often blocking the R/T requesting changes from the allocated landing runway so they can reduce taxy-in time, speed control on final not adhered to by pilots (because they don't trust ATC?) resulting in separation loss / go-arounds etc etc.
"Expect the unexpected" is a good maxim here, and that includes being ordered to go-around because the aircraft BEHIND is catching you up :uhoh:
30th Jun 2009, 13:38
Speed control in MAD is lousy. On the 320 it is rather difficult to do the sometimes required 200kts until 6 miles. Sometimes even with tailwind.
They are lousy in maintaining separation behind heavy IB traffic (340-600's).
You are told a 346 is ahead when you're just 3 miles behind.
I had one RA in my career to date. Where? Arrival in MAD. Mistake by ATC.
I had two g/a's on 33R because the tower did not answer our calls at all.
On the ground in 50% of the cases they forget to give you the next instruction and/or frequency in time. Very nice when taxiing uphill from 33R to the terminal.
Giving you taxi or push back instructions on the rear of T4, with, oops, another plane already on the taxilane.
Parrallel rwy's, high terrain and all other factors, all right. But let's just face that MAD ATC, from delivery to approach, is weak, very weak.