Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[Stallone]

Cathay Pacific to add 27 more aircraft to modernise and grow fleet, bringing total orders on hand to 91

9 March 2011





Cathay Pacific Airways announced today that it will further boost its investment in fleet modernization and growth by adding a further 27 aircraft to its fleet.

The airline has entered into an agreement with Airbus S.A.S. to buy 15 more Airbus A330-300s and a separate agreement with The Boeing Company for 10 more Boeing 777-300ERs. It has also inked a deal with aircraft leasing company International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC) to add two more Airbus A350-900s. All of these new aircraft will be delivered before the end of 2015.

The 27 new aircraft have a list price of about HK$51 billion, but will be acquired at a considerable discount, as is the usual practice in such transactions.
The latest orders come on top of the airline’s biggest-ever order, made in September last year, for 30 Airbus A350-900s to be delivered from 2016 to 2019 and six Boeing 777-300ERs to be delivered between 2013 to 2014. The latest order will enable the airline to replace older, less fuel-efficient aircraft as they are progressively retired from the fleet and at the same time continue with the expansion of its passenger network.

Cathay Pacific now has a total of 91 new aircraft on order for delivery between now and 2019. Their value at list prices is about HK$185 billion. In addition, Cathay Pacific is investing HK$5.5 billion in the Cathay Pacific Cargo Terminal now being built at Hong Kong International Airport, and another HK$1 billion in new products and services, including a new Business Class seat, from now to the end of this decade.

Cathay Pacific Chief Executive Tony Tyler said today: “We are very pleased to be able to underscore our commitment to our home city, Hong Kong, through this latest aircraft order. Both the Airbus A330-300 and the Boeing 777-300ER are modern, fuel efficient aircraft that have already proved their value in our fleet. Together with the new Airbus A350-900, they will provide us with exactly the right balance in our fleet portfolio through to the end of the decade.

“Our plan is to retire our 21 Boeing 747-400 and 11 Airbus A340-300 aircraft before the end of the decade as we take delivery progressively of new generation aircraft that will provide much greater fuel and operating cost efficiencies. This is important both for environmental reasons and from a financial perspective as fuel remains our greatest single cost.

“Cathay Pacific has ambitious plans moving forward and we need to ensure that we have a highly efficient and environmentally friendly fleet to meet those plans.”
The 15 new A330-300s being purchased from Airbus S.A.S. will be delivered between 2013 and 2015 and will be powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 700 engines. Cathay Pacific already operates the world’s biggest fleet of this aircraft type, which it uses primarily to destinations in the Asia Pacific region.

With the purchase of the 10 additional Boeing 777-300ERs, Cathay Pacific will have a total 46 of this aircraft type. Eighteen 777-300ERs are already flying for the airline, providing highly efficient operations on long-haul and ultra-long-haul routes. All the new Boeing aircraft will be powered by General Electric GE90 engines.

The two Airbus A350-900s being ordered through ILFC will be delivered in 2015 and will be the first of the aircraft type to enter the Cathay Pacific fleet, enabling the airline to address capacity and growth opportunities. The other 30 Airbus A350-900s will be delivered during 2016-2019 and all will be powered by Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines.

[carpet weaver]

more planes means more jobs!

[WhatThe?]

It means more DEFO's on the way!

[captain.weird]

Or hiring more cadets who can fly on the new planes. The planes will be entered the fleet in 2015. So they can train a lot of cadets till then! And there are already orders for new planes!

I hope that I can fly on one of those as S/O -> F/O -> Commander @ Cathay Pacific.

[SMOC]

It means more DEFO's on the way!


Sorry I think DEFOs are over, CX will probably be using two S/Os on long haul by the end of the year like QF, and like QF will only hire S/Os (via the 3 stream cadet course) from now on.

[carpet weaver]

I just want to clarify my understanding of where the S/O sits.

For takeoff and landing the S/O is in the jump seat along with a RQ next to him. At the controls of the aircraft is the Captain and F/O.

During Cruise the S/O can either sit in the captain or F/O seat depending on who is being relieved first?

This is my understanding if someone could confirm this that would be great.

Also does anyone have the most up to date fleet information with the new aircrafts that are being added? From what I hear I think there website is out of date.

Thanks

Carpet

[Harbour Dweller]

carpet weaver,

Regarding where the SO sits, your thoughts are correct.

[KPHL]

Can anyone please tell me where I can find the engine thrust on each of the CX aircraft. I found the page with the engines but there was no thrust setting.
Thanks

[orangeboy]

carpet weaver, have a look at the most recent annual or half yearly report :)


KPHL you can find the engine thrust settings of each aricraft either by going to the boeing and airbus sites or googling the engines and the results will come up.:ok:

[KPHL]

Thanks orangeboy

I did look it up online and the numbers i got were not all the same but were close...but thanks!

[boer69]

A330-300 RR Trent 700 thrust 68 000 lbs
A340-300 GE CFM 56-5C4 thrust 34 000 lbs
B747-400 RR RB 211-524 thrust 59 500 lbs
PW PW 4062 thrust 63 000 lbs
B777-200 RR Trent 877 thrust 76 000 lbs
B777-300 RR Trent 892 thrust 90 000 lbs
B777-300er GE 90-115B thrust 115 000lbs

[jackcarls0n]

Getting 27 airplanes and retiring 32 aircrafts. Seems like nothing changes.

[SloppyJoe]

There are actually over 90 aircraft on order.

[jackcarls0n]

Does CX hire people of South East Asia for their cadet program? Countries like India, Sri Lanka, Nepal etc.

I mailed them and they said they will contact me when they review the applications from my region. Is that region asia? or broken down in futher sub groups? How many regions do they have?

I do have my application in. But not sure if it would ever get reviewed. Tough luck but keeping fingers crossed.

[dirtybungs]

second stage on the 14th and 15th anyone? can pm me. My first stage was held in KL at the end of January

[The Rents]

Hi Ryan, take my advice, if you are offered a position as a cadet, snap it up, forget all this about hanging back..

Whilst those nerds are hanging back the guys and girls that snap up the chance will have the opportunity of a bright future flying.

With the new housing allowance of 120,000 hkd per annum, rising with rank, basic pay of 330,000 hkd + 9% rise this year, plus another 3% next year, a guaranteed flight allowance for 84 hours flying per month equalling 28,000 hkd per annum you can't afford to pratt about. That lot gives you in excess of 500,000 hkd per annum.

Get in there if you can, bite the bullet with the cost of living in HK, your basic will double by the time you have served your time in 6 years.

These guys that put a downer on this deal have either been turned down already by CX or fly for other companies, don't like what thay have but can't get DESO or DEFO positions and are trying to put you guys off the cadet route.

I don't know what sort of jobs a lot of you guys have at the moment, but the majority of you are probably really struggling with no future or prospect... get a life and get on the CX cadet course if you can !!!

[SW1]

Ravens APM still available for sale guys! Let me know via PM if you need them?

[crwjerk]

These guys that put a downer on this deal have either been turned down already by CX or fly for other companies, don't like what thay have but can't get DESO or DEFO positions and are trying to put you guys off the cadet route.

For your info, most of the guys you describe above, are putting reality into the discussion, and most ALREADY work for CX.
Stating cost of living facts and other numbers is not "putting a downer " on the deal........ and further to your estimate, after 6 years in CX, you will probably just be upgrading to Junior First Officer, and at the moment is not much more than a 10% increase! :ok:

[lost&found]

The Rents - your naivety is astonishing! your have not the faintest, :mad: idea of what you speak! before you open your mouth and let out anymore uneducated crap, please do some research....

[404 Titan]

The Rents

You are sounding more and more like a management stooge every day. The reality is that most people warning potential iCad’s about the shortcoming in the package already work here. We do it because we don’t want to see new pilots being financially entrapped in Hong Kong on a grossly substandard package and unable to leave. CX also has a long and distinguished history of forcing current pilots onto lower COS once a new COS has been introduced for new pilots. So it isn’t in our interest to see a new lower COS either.

Now regarding the new package being offered by CX. Why do you think they have had to do that? It isn’t though the goodness of their heart. The reality is that they had to give more because of the grossly underwhelming response from suitable applicants so far. It is those “Nerds” as you so distastefully referred to them as that have caused CX to rethink the package in the first place.

So what is wrong with the new package being offered?

1. The housing is still grossly substandard and is 100% taxable.

2. The housing isn’t indexed to the Hong Kong Government Rental Index, therefore isn’t indexed for inflation.

3. Once you have completed 6 years of service the “forgivable Loan” will be 100% taxable as it will then be deemed income by the IRD. It won’t matter if you were a long track cadet and used the entire loan for your training. It will be deemed income and taxed at the highest rate.

Shall I go on for you?

You also state that “a guaranteed flight allowance for 84 hours flying per month”. WRONG. Flight allowance as you put it or hourly duty pay as CX calls it isn’t guaranteed. If you don’t do the hours you don’t get the hourly duty pay.

[ETOPS240]

the “forgivable Loan” will be 100% taxable as it will then be deemed income by the IRD. It won’t matter if you were a long track cadet and used the entire loan for your training. It will be deemed income and taxed at the highest rate.

Without wanting to go against the flavour of your post, I'm not sure you can make that statement.

If the 'loan' is indeed a loan, one which CX can claim repayment for (not necessarily cash), to the tune of being able to 'bond' you, then it will not be deemed as taxable income.

It isn't income, and it isn't a gift. There are conditions of repayment, therefore it is a loan. At least, that is, if they can use it as a conduit for bonding.

[404 Titan]

ETOPS240

As an accountant in my previous life I can assure you the IRD will treat the forgivable loan as income once the iCad has completed six years of service. The company can call it what they like but this will not stop the IRD classing it as a joining bonus and therefore income as it most rightfully is. The only reason they are calling it a gift is to dress it up in the eyes of the potential iCads.

It would simply be better for the company to just pay for the course in Adelaide like they have always done rather than muddying the tax waters for the iCads by giving them a loan when they first start. The only reason they have done this is to try and circumvent the laws in Hong Kong prohibiting bonding and to try and make the cadet scheme appear more attractive particularly to experienced pilots who have been avoiding it in droves. The reality is they desperately need considerably more short course iCads as they simply can’t get the numbers required for their expansion plans through the long course alone. For long course iCads there is absolutely nothing in it for them except a large tax bill after six years.

At the end of the day profit share or a bonus could be called a gift as well but it is still classed as income by the IRD. There is absolutely no difference in the eyes of the IRD when it comes to a gifted loan. It is a joining bonus period and is therefore part of ones assessable income.

If you don’t believe me ask the IRD and/or your accountant.

Bye the way there are no repayments unless the iCad decides to leave before their six year “Return of Service” requirement.

[ETOPS240]

I stand corrected, thanks for the info. I'm in no position to argue.

It does beg the question, however; if it is treated as income by the authorities, rather than a loan, does that void any notion CX had of it being a bond?

[404 Titan]

ETOPS240

That’s a question for the legal eagles but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a …..

[ETOPS240]

When you've spent time in the Bangkok night scene, you just can't use that logic any longer..!:}

[KPHL]

is it normal to bring a brief case to put all your paperwork in?

[crwjerk]

Maybe he means...
1. They've opened the Cadet scheme up to anybody who can say "Yes sir"
2. They've offered a small allowance as nobody accepted no allowance.

[Jason8]

I've contacted Cathway Pacific in regards to my D in Maths. I doubt I'll get a look in but its worth a try. I'm not even bad at maths, was just going through a rough patch when I did my GCSEs'. If I'm able to do the basic preliminary tests I don't see the problem.

Been using MS flight simulator and got all the way to commercial pilot so far. It's easy if you knuckle down and work hard.

[Coffee Mug]

Hey Purdue,

I'm in the same position. Sent in my application years ago but am hoping for a DESO interview. From reading through these posts tonight it has become obvious that there will not be any more DESO opportunities.

Are you still going to interview for the new cadet SO position?

I meet the qualifications for a DEFO but was recently contacted by CX HR to see if I would be interested in this new cadet SO position. I plan to interview and see what they offer me if I'm given the chance.

I have not received a response as of yet, but I will update this thread when I hear more from HKG.

Best wishes in your pursuit.

[carpet weaver]

Ratings
At the end of your training you would get a "Hong Kong Commercial Pilot License, with Multi and Instrument add on's".

Fleet size and engine
32 Airbus A330-300: 2 Trent 772 rated at 72,000 pounds a side (21 on order)
11 Airbus A340-300: 4 CFM 56-5C4 rated at 34,000 pounds per engine
18 777-300ER: 2 GE90-115 rated at 115,000 a side (28 on order)
12 777-300: 2 Trent 884B rated at 84,000 pounds a side
5 777-200: 2 Trent 877 rated at 77,000 pounds a side
21 747-400: Either 4 PW 4052 rated at 50,000 or 4 RB211-524 H/T at 60,000
6 747-400F:RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine
6 747-400ERF: 4 PW 4062 rated at 62,000 pounds per engine
12 747-400BCF: RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine

Delivery A/C
32 Airbus A350-900: Trent XWB rated at 84,000 pounds a side
10 747-8F: GENX-2B67 rated at 67,000 pounds per engine

Aircraft S/O operate
S/O operate on all aircraft if need...(over 8 hour flights?)

A/C used in Adelaide
Grob115, Tobago, DA42, Cap 10

Also if anyone could answer how winglets reduce induced drag and how it is affected by airspeed....how the raked winglets work on the 777-300ER


Kinda long but I would appreciate if anyone could confirm these for me and or answer the last question..Thanks!:ok:

[Em773ER]

Hey everyone just a couple of questions.

This goes for S/Os F/Os and Cptns, with the B777 aircraft do they fly just one type (-200,-300,-300ER) or they fly all types through something similar to the airbus CCQ?

And

Could anyone please share the advantages and disadvantages of being (rated) on each of the aircraft at CX, this could include best/worst rostering times, worst/best routes, etc. A good example of what i mean, from memory (correct me if im wrong) Sloppyjoe mentioned something about one of the A330 routes HK-DXB-??-HK was a terrible pairing...

[Bye Bye Baby]

Hey coffe Mug,
I read from your post on the main forum that you have 3 kids, here is my 2c worth.
When I joined 10 years ago, a class mate had 3 school aged kids.
The package was full B scale.
He had made a fair bit of dough from previous jobs and had three rental properties as supplementary income.
After approximately 4 years to upgrade, he had no rental properties, as he had to sell them so that he and his family could live a life somewhat similar to that which they had before.
He had a little more than half the savings that he had when he started.
He could never get the deposit together to afford to buy a house in which 5 could comfortably live so rented the whole time he was here.

A few things to think about.
The package he was on was well over double what is currently on offer (after 2 years rental allowance was about 125% of salary).
This was 10 years ago, that funny little thing called inflation causes a few problems here.
You will not afford a house with a garden for the kids to run around in, in the "suburbs", you may get a place with a small patch of grass, but that will conservatively cost you your entire salary per month, therefore there will be no savings.
On the bright side no savings means that you will be mortgage free for the rest of your career here as you will never be able to afford a house.
You can survive on very little money with respect to food here, but please remember that over 80% of the vegetables that are sold in HKG come from the mainland, where DDT is an acceptable pesticide. If you chose to forgo the option of local food and instead go for the imported stuff then expect a monthly bill of conservatively $HK8000/mth. Or just feed them the carciogenic stuff.
Everything here costs (lots) if your kids like playing baseball, basketball, hockey, swimming, cycling, kung fu, lacross, cricket, rugby, american football, regular fooball it is all reasonably accessable, but costs....... a lot.
As alluded to in a previous post the cx education allowance is a bonus, however, an english speak school is not cheap, and the allowance only covers the tuition fees, all the other fees (of which there are many) are not covered so come from your pocket. Oh and don't forget to put aside extra for your tax bill as it is fully taxable. With 3 kids at school and the ammount cx will give you for that ,I would suggest doubling what a single guy would put aside.

To sum up.
If you have plenty of savings and are willing to loose a lot of it, come join the party.
If you are looking for a quick divorce, come join the party.
If you are willing to sell up and be mortgage free for the rest of your life, come join the party.
If your standard of living is just way too high and you want to downgrade, come join the party.
If not any of the above, wait, the package will get better or they may even have to go back to the expat DESO or DEFO route.
Don't fu*k your family over just to do the "wide body, international thing" you will be miserable and you are selling yourself so far short it is scary.

[Coffee Mug]

Really appreciate your careful wording and real world examples. I owe you a drink some day when they open up the DEFO door again. Until then I will stay put. Godspeed.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Simply trying to state the facts which is not something you often hear from CX. This place is very expensive and the iSO, HKPA is woefully inadaquate. They are just testing the water to find the minimum amount necessary to get guys in the door, I think they will again be underwelmed by the response.
Don't know about the best move but certainly the smartest move you have made, my best moves where the ones I made to convince my wife to marry me....................
Make it a 1664 and we will call it even.

[Captian Desi]

Who said 50,000 people applied for it in 2011 ????????????????????????? Any evidence to your claim ?

I agree it is a cheap deal , but if you want cheap labor that is what you must do , CX going to hire 2300 more staff this year , must save money somewhere. Why not start with the front of the plane and then work our way down. Soon there will be a Apprentice Programme for AME's - Similar conditions.

[lost&found]

So why have nearly 50,000 people applied for 2011?


because it is "free"....

[Cpt. Underpants]

The large print giveth





...and the small print taketh away.

There has never been a more appropriate time to read the small print in this scheme.

[Captian Desi]

because it is "free"....

@lost&found ... maybe CX Rec.Team , should start charging an application fee. Lets Say HKD$2000.00 Per application. :E

[Bye Bye Baby]

chchflyboy,
Sorry but there are no community service cards here to fall back on.
Your a big boy you can make up your own mind, I think you will find that they guys here Dan et al are simply trying to give you some advice from those that are here already.
Sift through it disregard the 10% at either end of the for/against scale and work it out. But don't put your head in the sand and do the petculent child, big shiny jet thing.
You are not here you do not know, soome are just trying to inform you.
I hope your girlfriend is going to earn a big income, she sure as hell won't be surviving on yours, but hey I'm sure Toss will take her for a spin in the little red sports car............
Ignorance is not an excuse to bury your head in the sand.

[lost&found]

They dream of being 22 and 2nd officer of a 777


The 22 year old should be in the bush - getting experience, learning how to manage an aircraft, as opposed to keeping the seat warm! The 777 will be here in 6 years time, it will be here for a very long time! yes you will probably have to start off at the bottom, but when it comes time to upgrade and be in charge of the big shiny jet your experience gained in the bush will be the difference between 300 saisfied customers and some not so, when **** hits the fan over the Pacific.... Personally, im a little worried that some who have gone through the cadet scheme, without any flying experience previous, may be lacking some pretty basic airmanship skills!

[Flaps10]

chchflyboy...

You sound so typical of kids these days. You all want instant gratification. No one wants to work towards anything.

I wouldn't trade any of the 8 years of flying I did before joining CX to have had the chance to jump into a 777/747 at 20 with zero time. I busted my ass and didn't get paid a lot to do it but I loved every minute of it and gained invaluable skill that you can't learn sitting in the backseat of a jumbo. I, like everyone else on my DESO course, put in a lot of time and effort to make to CX and CX was the pinnacle of aviation jobs. You guys are allowing management to kill what was once the last great career airline.

My advice...go get a real job. Starve for a bit, fly at night in the middle of nowhere with no one to rely on but yourself and your skill. Then come to CX and contribute something to the ranks other than your arrogant self-serving attitude.
:ugh:

[DashQ]

Just to add to what Chch is saying (specifically about the industry in NZ). Things down here are pretty dire. Only jobs available after sitting in the regionals are LCC's which come with substandard t's and c's (refer d&g forums). Believe it or not but commuting from HK to NZ as an SO would probably leave you with more money in your pocket and more time at home than the low cost options. And as for Air NZ mainline. Forget it. Been three years since they took anyone on. It'll be at least five years before the hold pool has been cleared and once on board new hires can expect a seven year wait in the back seat ( and you thought CX was bad).

[lost&found]

Believe it or not but commuting from HK to NZ as an SO would probably leave you with more money in your pocket and more time at home than the low cost options


really...? i think you need to research HK and CX a little, before coming out with a naieve statement like that...

[DashQ]

Let's see. As an example Jetstar NZ pay 65k NZD before tax and they work very hard for that. Admittedly, Pacific Blue pays more (86k before tax which is 30% and some) but don't forget the 40k you need to come up to cover the rating (you aren't getting paid while completing the rating by the way).

I should probably mention that im not considering the scheme. Just adding a bit of perspective.

[crwjerk]

Em773ER

On the 777, S/O's do not fly 200 or 300...... Only -ER as it's the only one that requires one. F/O's and Captains fly all types with one rating, it's the same aircraft, not like the Airbus.
Patterns and destinations for each aircraft always change, Except for Australia which will always be an Airbus. Patterns for S/O on the Airbus are pretty bad. Not much long haul anymore and mainly Australia and Middle East. 777 and jumbo get the better destinations, but you'll only get 24 hours anywhere. Enough time to sleep, eat, and go back to work. Enjoy!!!!

[slotsdown]

That was an excellent read:D

[Flaps10]

It's like talking to a wall...

[Captian Desi]

Okay, it's official for me, I'm turning down the offer for the Stage1 interview, since I've been offered 2 jobs in 1 week. One for the Learjet60 and the second on the B737. Now I just have to decide, which one to choose. Both have their pros and cons, I'm young, single, no wife, no kids nor planning having one in the near decade.

@ FasterStronger - I would take the Learjet , after a few years jump onto something bigger , it also depends on how much flying you will do - if both the opportunities allow for equal amount of flying then learjet other wise go with somthing that keeps you in the air longer :E.

anyway a good call , IMHO I don't think that the Cadet Pilots of the Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme are getting paid enough , though they have topped up the offer with extra 10K - for an abInito entry you are still stuck with a contract for 6 years . IMEHO (in my extremely humble opinion ) If you are eligible for the TT / AE entry might think about it , but otherwise STAY AWAY FROM CATHAY PACIFIC CADET PILOT PROGRAMME - YOU WILL BE BETTER OF ELSEWHERE FINANCIALLY. :=:=:=:=

[Captian Desi]

Is it possible to print this entire thread in one go ? if it is how ? I tried the printer friendly version will have to print page by page which is very annoying.

Please show me a way to print the whole thing , possibly in a few clicks.

Note :- Will be using fully recycled paper / eco friendly printer / eco friendly inks and I also genrate offsetting solar power at home. On a good clear day in Lantau.

[flyinryan76]

hey guys,

Been following this thread for a bit and had a few questions. I was offered a stage 1 interview in SFO next month and would like to have a better idea of what the T&C's are for this job. I realize I could probably read through all 119 pages to find the answer but I don't have that kind of time! :) So....

1) What is the basic pay for those who are hired as a SO in the cadet program fast track? I have my ATP and 3,000 hours... not sure if that makes a difference in the pay stucture.

2) Commuting possible? Some of my family lives in Taiwan and am wondering if it would be possible to live there and fly to HKG?

thanks for the help!

[Em773ER]

thanks crwjerk! :ok: sorry to bother but how are airbus patterns for S/O bad? cheers

just another question. how does the base system of CX work and where are all CX bases for pilots? from my understanding you can only get basing once you are a F/O. Are each of the bases limited to what aircraft you're on? surely an A330 F/O or Cptn couldn't be based in LHR? etc

thanks in advance :ok:

[Chewie-gentle giant]

Anyone that has just completed stage 2 for the cadet program could anyone give me an idea about what type of maths questions do they ask and what technical questions are in the interview.

Thanks for your help

[Captian Desi]

Can anyone tell me how to print the entire Thread ????

[jackcarls0n]

Mailed up CX they said, they will review the applications in my region and inform.

Any info when do they do if they ever review applications from South East Asia= Bhutan, Nepal, etc?

Or usually the cadets are from South Asia=Singapore, HK etc and Aus, NZ, America, Europe.

Thanks


PS: Captain Desi, you cannot print all the 120 odd pages all at once..do it one by one.

[Captian Desi]

@jackcarls0n , if I view the printer friendly version then I put it up to 40 posts per page.

There must be some way of printing the whole thread, come on there must be a tech genius out there who can help me ????

[Roxy_Chick_1989]

Captain Desi,

Im no tech genius but you could try setting your PPRuNe display options to display say, as many posts possible per page. Other option is to open each individual page and copy the posts into Word, then print the whole thing.

Not sure why you would want to print this whole thread though?

[carpet weaver]

Fleet size and engine
32 Airbus A330-300: 2 Trent 772 rated at 72,000 pounds a side (21 on order)
11 Airbus A340-300: 4 CFM 56-5C4 rated at 34,000 pounds per engine
18 777-300ER: 2 GE90-115 rated at 115,000 a side (28 on order)
12 777-300: 2 Trent 884B rated at 84,000 pounds a side
5 777-200: 2 Trent 877 rated at 77,000 pounds a side
21 747-400: Either 4 PW 4052 rated at 50,000 or 4 RB211-524 H/T at 60,000
6 747-400F:RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine
6 747-400ERF: 4 PW 4062 rated at 62,000 pounds per engine
12 747-400BCF: RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine

Delivery A/C
32 Airbus A350-900: Trent XWB rated at 84,000 pounds a side
10 747-8F: GENX-2B67 rated at 67,000 pounds per engin

[Chewie-gentle giant]

Does anyone Know what is in the stage 2 Aviation Maths test?

[cx pilot]

Hi Olancer

I Will be attending the stage 1 on April 12, and would like to meet anyone else who is attending the same in HK. I will be arriving early and would like to get in touch with those who do , so that we could practice together.

Looking forward to hear from all!
Best of Luck

[flyingmam254]

Hey,

Where are u doing your stage one and how long did you wait until u heard that you could attent. Have put my application in for europe west but no respone as of yet.

Thanks,
D

[ap_797]

Hi all,
just a quick question. I understand from what people have said that a medical is conducted at stage 2 in HK, however I was wondering when it was that the actual HK Class 1 medical is conducted? Is this done at the same time or at a later stage?

Thanks!

[PlaneWhisperer]

Was wondering if anyone might know if Cathay would not consider anyone for the 30 week program who had less than 250 hrs as I recently have a cpl but am going to get my instrument rating and Atpls done in the next 6 months, would they only consider me once I have worked up 250hrs?

[The Rents]

I think the following may be up to date info you are looking for !

If you are successful in stage 2 & 3 and again in flight grading at FTA Adelaide, you are then offered a position on the S/O Cadet course. En-route to Adelaide you attend a Pre-Course Briefing and Cadet Orientation Course in Hong Kong, it is then when you have a class 1 medical.

Hope this is helpful.

[lost&found]

Was wondering if anyone might know if Cathay would not consider anyone for the 30 week program who had less than 250 hrs as I recently have a cpl but am going to get my instrument rating and Atpls done in the next 6 months, would they only consider me once I have worked up 250hrs?


what does the website say?

[costas1979]

Hi everybody.

I cannot fill in the application or the cadet program. It seems that the link has been removed.

Is anybody experiencing the same problem?

Any help will be appreciated.


Thanks.

[Captian Desi]

Hi everybody.

I cannot fill in the application or the cadet program. It seems that the link has been removed.

Is anybody experiencing the same problem?

Any help will be appreciated.


Thanks.

@costas1979

It is working absolutely fine.

[Chewie-gentle giant]

Hi did anyone do there stage 2 today in Hk 22nd of march?

[SW1]

Ravens APM still available for sale. Contact me via PM if you are interested in buying them...

[Smell the Coffee]

Ravens APM still available for sale. Contact me via PM if you are interested in buying them...

Waste of money.

Will make almost no difference to your chances.

[SW1]

How did you come to that conclusion? I failed because of the reasoning test first time round and was given the chance to reapply. After studying the test, got to flight grading after that.

So it DOES help to be well prepared in my opinion...

[victorlht88]

Just did my stage 1 in singapore today.

Wasn't grilled much on the technical side cause I didn't have much prior knowledge or experience.

The captain focused more on personal questions followed by the usual reasoning test, personality test and technical mcq.

All the best to those who will be going for their interview soon!

[blackbird93]

Victorlht88, wish you all the best and hopefully youwill make it to next stage. When did you apply and how long did it take them to contact you? As for the aptitude test how did it go and how many questions were there? Wonder whether its still the same format as last year. For the personality test and technical test how many questions and how long is given to complete tests? :ok:

[victorlht88]

Thanks alot blackbird93. I applied in dec and they got back to me somewhere in feb with my scheduled interview dates.

Interview (45mins)
Personal + Technical by 1 Pilot and 1 Staff from Cathay Pacific.

The personal interview is more of a "get to know you" session whereby you gotta sell yourself and let them have a better knowledge about you. As for technical interview, I believe its based on your prior experience (flying hours/experience) as he only asked me 1 question. You got to read up on some basic information about Cathay Pacific and its all the pretty standard interview questions. My questions were phrased from my application and he asked me to explain more on the reason for applying Cathay and not other airlines.

For those without prior flying experience (just like me) then I guess you will have to be prepared to ace the personal interview section.

As for the other 2 guys who were with me, heard they were grilled pretty badly about the technical aspects and not so on the personal side. I did not have much flying hours so I guess the pilot didn't really focus much on the technical aspects.

Technical Test (45mins)
30+ MCQs, just digest the JKI.

Personality Test (30mins)
2 sets of 17 Questions whereby you got to rank the sentences.

Reasoning Test (45mins)
1 set of 10 questions which is pretty straightforward and simple.
1 set of 35 questions which will be tougher.

*well according to blackbird93, he mentioned that it will be 12 questions in set 1 and 36 questions in set 2. i might have made a mistake but i guess the number of questions don't really matter much anyway, does it?

Both sets will be based on Raven's Progressive Matrices.

Thats about it, all the best to the rest!

[blackbird93]

thanx for intel victorlht88...wish u all the best...:ok:

[carpet weaver]

CAT- Clear air Turbulence
turbulent air with no signs of visible moisture content.

Sweptback wings have higher stall speeds due to poor lift ability (this is why we have high lift devices like flaps and slats). Sweptback wings have a tendency to stall at the wingtip of the wing.

hope this helps

[theredwoodbus]

Nitrogen
i guess nitrogen is lighter, and it does not ignite when tire has a temp. and it's not flammable. and i guess the reason why they use nitrogen on center tanks now for most of the new boeing (cx 77w start with KPK ) & airbus have something call nitrogen generation system to fill the center tank with nitrogen to prevent sparks in the tanks. airbus has it own name on it but does the same purpose.

maybe google can give you a better answer on why they use Nitrogen on aircraft tires in case they ask you why.

[Thierry121]

Hey,

anyone going for stage 2 in HK on the 16th May? I was kind of suprised they arranged the dates till then, I had my stage 1 back on the 25th Feb. Is it normal to have stage 2 nearly 3 months after stage 1?

In addition here's the itinerary for the day:

- Personality Test (Computer-based/Time allowed: 30mins)
- Aviation Mathematics test (Time allowed: 60mins)
- Group Exercise (60mins)
- Flight Planning Exercise (90mins)
- Panel Interview (General and Technical: 60mins)

I also thought there was aptitude tests like the wombat, or is that at stage 3?

[orangeboy]

TBH, no one can say what chance you have.

If they know about it then be prepared to be asked about it. Understand why that accident happened, and how it has changed your perspective, thoughts and actions. What did you learn from it? I think with anything like an accident they want to see you have matured and learnt from the event and taken steps to prevent it happening again.

Hope that gives you a start as to one approach you could take.

[airplaneridesrfun]

Does anybody realize that you are going down the wrong path if you are considering CX? CX management (SK, IR, through their secretary) flat out lie to their employees; and managers often do not follow CX's MISSION STATEMENT. Basically, exploitation is CX's bag.... they will misrepresent the truth as often as it takes to make you join; and then you are stuck with a bond in a crappy job, where you make other people's bunks, don't get to fly, and have to put up with a bunch of douche bags. Now, you can add to this, you will be living in an expensive city, with enough housing assistance to rent a maid's room in my apartment. To further make the situation unappealing; everyone you come into contact with will hate you for not accepting better terms and conditions to move to HK as a professional pilot.

Still want to come here?

[Cpt. Underpants]

But the airplanes are big and shiny!

The girls go weak at the knees when we tell them we're CATHAY pilots!

We get FREE sandwiches!

I'll be able to talk about REALLY technical sounding stuff like "Cat 3 ILS", "polar navigation" and "CPDLC" to lesser mortals...

Gosh, I'd do do this job for NOTHING, just let me touch those shiny controls!

Please please please please please please take me!

[flynhigh]

Than why are you here asking questions....when you don't even know the basic....just look at your questions...its shocking you don't even know what CAT or CFR stand for, but yet you think you are ready to widebody jet around the world....I take that back since you will not be flying anything but your ego for the first 6 yrs....Good luck...what a tool.

[carpet weaver]

anyone have any last minute advise before my stage one?


and please no negative comments, this job is better then living on food stamps working for a regional airline.

[404 Titan]

carpet weaver

I thought you said you had a private licence with 249 hours. So which is it, you have a private licence and live with your mummy and daddy or you work for a regional on food stamps? If it is the latter you should be asking yourself why you are working for a regional on food stamps and why we are trying to prevent that type of garbage setting in here. It takes two to tango sunshine and you're doing half the tangoing.:yuk:

[smallbterry]

WOMBAT questions
For those who had completed the WOMBAT test, I have few questions after reading the manual:

1. Are there two "tracking worth-performance indicator" (p-v square) being shown on the screen throughout the test? One shows the tracking performance and the other shows the bonus performance?

2. If only one indicator is being displayed for your performance, how do you know that the decrease of performance is due to the autotrack mode failure or the incorrect answer on bonus questions?

3. If I understand the mnual correctly, while doing bonus questions, if one see the performance indicator decrease, it indicates a failure on autotrack mode, and one must switch back to the tracking mode immediately by pushing the "Bonus" button to correct the tracking actions. Am I right?

4. If statement 3. is correct, what happens to the bonus question when you terminate it? When you again finish auto tracking and switch back to bonus question, will you be resumed to the previous bonus question automatically, or you will start with a new one?

5. The interview itinerary shows there will be 90 minuets for WOMBAT test. Does the time start to count when instructions section starts, or it is the length of the actual test time once the test starts (after the instruction)?

6. 90 minutes seems quite long for this test! Is there a limited numbers of bonus games you could play such that if you do fast enough to finish all available bonus games, you can finish the test early. Or you will have to complete the entire 90 minutes test regardless how fast you perform?

7. Will the final score be shown on the display after you complete the test?


I found these questions on #1005 by eleong but still no one answer to them, is that anyone of you can answer to them??

as I would have my stage 1 interview on 11 Apr
anyone doing stage 1 on that day also?

Terry

[kj8]

Hi there Chch boy can you tell me were you advised by email or by post as to the upcoming interview in Auckland? Also when did you apply? Understand you wanting to get out of Chc. Very distressing situation. Hope your family are all safe.:ok:

[carpet weaver]

I dont quite understand the point your trying to get across here but yes ppl, commercial fairly soon. I dont plan on being a private pilot forever, eventually I will move on and if CX doesnt work, im going to end up at a regional and I am quite familiar to the lifestyle they live.

[404 Titan]

carpet weaver

The point I am trying to make is pilots in regionals in the US living on food stamps is a disgrace. Unfortunately though the reality is for every pilot that was offered these disgraceful conditions there was a pilot that accepted them. You may think CX is offering you a lot of money but the reality is that you may as well be living on food stamps with the cost of living here in Hong Kong, the third most expensive city in the world to live. Even New York which is the most expensive city in the US only ranks at number 8. The only cities more expensive than Hong Kong are Tokyo and Moscow, both ranked 1 & 2 respectively.

[flynhigh]

carpet weaver

Just so you know.....if CX doesn't work , you will not end up at regional, Cause they will hire you with your 250 hours total time....After 5 or 6 years at CX you will still have 250 with no type rating:ugh:...why do you guys think you can log these time:=....CX will not even issue you SIC type:{. At the end of day its your life and you do what you want, you see If this was, such a great deal, they wouldn’t have any problem recruiting but as you can see they are….its not only a financial suicide it’s also carrier disaste:\r…Good luck in your interview

[uspilot]

I guess what everyone is trying to say is, if you know regional pay is crappy why are you taking this crappy pay from CX. This new icadet T&C is no diferent than regional crappy pay. In U.S. you will only pay tax to uncle sam, but in HKG you will end up paying tax to both uncle sam and HKG goverment, just do the math and see for yourself:{ All the best , hope you all find what your looking for.

[Captain Dart]

Today is 'emoticon day'. :)

If any of you wannabes out there accept this dreadful package and if you succeed in meeting the required standard and if you end up in my cockpit I don't want to hear one peep about your crappy accommodation, poor promotion prospects, unmarketable flight experience, sub-standard salary or the company culture. :=

The corporation has just announced record profits, yet it is not prepared to invest properly in its future crew in order to expand the airline safely and efficiently. :yuk: There is a Senate Inquiry into 'cadet schemes' etc. going on in Australia right now, and we know about the Colgan disaster, don't we? :{

There are already recent-joiners who have just discovered what housing costs really are here. :ugh: I suggest a session with Mr. Google if you haven't had one already.

Just make sure you put enough money aside so you can eat properly, and you had better be properly rested in your 'accommodation' so that you can do your job under the occasionally very demanding conditions that we were once paid A scales to cope with (typhoon season runs from about July to October). :eek:

We have had management making war on our salaries and conditions for the better part of twenty years now and if you accept these terms you must be aware that there will be little goodwill or sympathy toward you. :suspect:

P.S. I too cannot believe some of the questions being asked here by persons aspiring to train as 'instant' pilots of wide-bodied, globally-flying airliners. :eek:

[Cessna414CC]

Either way the money sucks, just accept that. If you want flying experience, go regional for a little while. All the non-military seasoned pilots I know that fly a "BSJ" comment that their time flying for a regional was the most fun they had as a aviator. Get some experience first, the "BSJ" will be there waiting for you in a couple/few years and the compensation package might even be better by then (at least that's my plan). :ok:

[mjfox]

Hi,
i have to go to outstation in Paris next 31 march to do the initial interview for second officer selection, have you done the same initial selection last february 2011? How was?
Do you confirm more or less 3 months from the first step to the second step in HK ?
Thanks

[flynhigh]

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:D:ok:

[lost&found]

Chewie - you are a 20 year old, living in HK about to go do flight grading for the AE cadet course? my guess is that your daddy paid for you to get 250 hours, you applied for the course, learnt what you needed and have now been accepted for flight grading... what are you actually bringing to the cockpit?

[flynhigh]

ILS approach is an ILS approach...who cares where its at...are you saying your so weak that you need all the info just to conduct a simple ILS approach:ugh:....come on man where did you get your instrument rating or do you even have one....:{you be fun to fly with....:eek:

[carpet weaver]

does anyone know how to do these questions? Any input would be appreciate thanks in advance.

Ground temp was 29 degrees, cloud base was 2000’. What is temperature of a parcel of air @ 4000’ using DALR and SALR?

Ground temp was 29 degrees, cloud base was 2000’. What is temperature of a parcel of air @ 4000’ using DALR and SALR?
:ok:

[crwjerk]

Set thrust.
Thrust set.
80 knots.
Check.
V1.
Rotate.
Gear up.
Positive rate, gear up.
LNAV.... THR REF.... VNAV SPD.
Check.
Flaps 1.....
Speed Checks Flaps 1
Climb thrust.....
Climb 1 set.
Flaps up...
Speed Checks Flaps up.
Oh F-bomb!!! We forgot to measure the temperature of that air parcel we just flew through at 4000 ft!!! What was it???
Shut the F-bomb up and cycle the seat belt signs!

[theCOMEDIAN]

Chewie...

I am confused

[carpet weaver]

Can anyone please tell me the length of the course at FTA such as short course and the requirements, I have read it in this forum but cant seem to find it?

Thanks

[flynhigh]

A 61 week Ab-initio programme for applicants with little or no aviation experience;
A 30 week Advanced Entry programme for applicants who possess an ICAO CPL and in excess of 250 hours flight time in certain categories; and
A 12 week Cadet Transition Training programme for applicants with an ICAO CPL, passes in all ATPL subjects and in excess of 1500 hours total flight time

[carpet weaver]

thanks!:ok:

[captain.weird]

They will come to Amsterdam these summer, in August. I think maybe I'll be invited, because my first choice was Amsterdam. But maybe not we'll see. The problem is that I have ramadan, that means that, we muslims, don't eat till the sun is going under.. I think I can't concentrate myself for 100 percent for it.. somebody who has tips or had the same thing??

CW

[coobg002]

PF doesnt have an ILS. It has an NDB....

[Skybound79]

So how will you fly the aircraft during ramadan if you are unable to concentrate?

I have many muslim friends who are good pilots and fasting during Ramadan has not been an issue for them where aviation safety is concerned. If they are not able to fast for health or safety concerns they may go for the option of breaking the fast and make up for it another day. But of course it is up to them to decide for themselves..At least that's how I understand it to be..

[theCOMEDIAN]

The flight grading for applicants who are going on the Ab-Initio course is the same regardless as its for people with "little to no expirience"
Having said that, someone such as your fine self with a whopping 80 hours, will be expected to complete more advanced stuff than someone with zero. These include steep turns, spin recovery, and limited panel IF.

They wont make you do an ILS as you'd never have seen nor expirienced one as well as PF not having an ILS

[Pomypilot]

This just keeps getting better!! :D I did look at this section for info, but now I'm back for the entertainment!!:} :ugh:

[PurdueFlight]

Hey guys,
Besides JKI booklet, what else should i study for my initial interview? I have all the ratings and 300tt. I'm about to graduate from an aviation university in 2 months. I'm pretty sure they're gonna expect a lot more from me compare to someone who's never flown before.
Also, do I really need to present them my high school grades:eek:??
Thanks a lot!

[yshiai]

Hey! For those who have applied from all over the world, do not be discouraged if u have yet to be offered the initial interview. I have confirmed with CX that they will reply even if u r rejected so for those who have no news means ur application is still pending! No news = Good news! And for those who want to expediate the process do indicate that u dont mind going to HK for interviews it'll definitely be faster (if u really dont mind). Btw i have applied in late Dec and when i checked with CX yesterday, my application is still "queueing up" for screening. Cheers! And continue to live the dream!:ok:

[Stallone]

i'm from SG too and i don't know how long more to wait, hahaha

at least yours was Dec 2010, i applied in April 2010


they came last week, but no news from them..

argh....:ugh::ugh:

[chrisaviator]

Very interesting thread here guys, seems to have caused quite a stirr

Would seem that there are two fences, those that are despairer for a job, and those that do not....and as such don't like the conditions offered.

I am just about to finish my HND with ATPL's and start my CPL/IR which is all self funded and to be honest I can't see any opportunities for me at the moment as newly qualified FO/SO. It would seem that this is the only cadet scheme at the moment that will consider me in any way shape or form. Like many on this forum along with those without any flight experience.

For those of you that have applied, the very best of luck to you and I too am awaiting for a response.

For those of you who feel that the conditions are not good enough, you are right, but please do not judge us as we all need to start somewhere, even if it means that we need to take one for the team now and again.

I firmly believe that we need to start at the bottom, work hard, take the hits and be prepared to compromise in order to get on in aviation these days seeing as low hours FO/SO jobs are few and far between.

Also if you feel that these conditions are not great, please, instead of just telling us this very important point, why do you not show us another airline that offers the same level of cadet-ship, but with better conditions?

I look forward to your interesting reply!

PS, starting at the bottom doesn't make us bad pilots, it makes us more determined!

[Cessna414CC]

I'm in your shoes as well, but I have to say I question one thing: How can we 'new' pilots with a couple/few hundred hours expect to truly know how to fly and fly well after 4 years as basically a cruise pilot (especially when/if the sh*t hits the fan)? Sure, a sim every so often and watching pilots do the fun stuff from the back seat will help, but that is a FAR CRY from hands-on experience for a 4 year period. It would seem if one goes from a regional FO to a long-haul SO, at least one has gained plenty of first hand experience to draw on when/if needed before spending 4 years in the backseat. Thoughts?

[SMOC]

Simple answer, the seniority list, while you're away gaining valuable experience the other guy is working his way up the list and will forever be senior to you.

[Mr Fusion]

I've seen a lot of info. about the initial interview on this thread, who has the gouge for the final interview?

Specifically these parts:

- Interview
- Technical Quiz
- Aviation Mathematics Test
- Group Exercise

Background: I'm a CRJ7 FO with just under 3,000 hours total time, 2,500 of it at my current job.

Feel free to PM me, any information about the interview would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)

[GTC58]

Try 6-10 years as SO. Apparently, there is a new SO rating and course in the making to support the future crewing requirements of 2 SOs on longhaul flights. Word on the street is that the new SO rating will be not time limited as the P2X rating and SO responsibilities will be reduced so a new shorter course for ab-inito cadets with no flight experience can be introduced to get bums in the seats.

[Harbour Dweller]

SO responsibilities will be reduced so a new shorter course for ab-inito cadets with no flight experience can be introduced to get bums in the seats.

Reduced to what? Just turning up?

SO's do virtually nothing now anyway except eat the sandwiches.

[yshiai]

Probably we can try CX, SIA and Jetstar? Plus ethihad and emirates when they have vacancy.. Haha!

[Cessna414CC]

Assuming the other guy passes his check for JFO:confused:

[elgringo]

pathetic, sad. aviation 1-oh-1

[SloppyJoe]

Chrisaviator

For those of you who feel that the conditions are not good enough, you are right, but please do not judge us as we all need to start somewhere, even if it means that we need to take one for the team now and again.

I firmly believe that we need to start at the bottom, work hard, take the hits and be prepared to compromise in order to get on in aviation these days seeing as low hours FO/SO jobs are few and far between.

There were no cadet schemes when I started my career. I did not even consider trying to get a job in an airline with 250 hours. You try to justify taking this huge reduction in terms and conditions because its just so hard to become a pilot, how else can you become an airline pilot :{

Amazingly most of the current pilots working for CX managed to do it and I would expect that less than 3% started with an airline straight out of flight school. I am not saying the cadet scheme is a bad thing for someone with no experience, if it was around when i started i would have applied but please don't say there is just no other way to become an airline pilot as justification for reducing the terms and conditions at the airline that was once the one that every professional pilot aspired to join.

[crwjerk]

Well said SloppyJoe.
Some people will never get it though!!!! :ok:

[100% Ng]

Save now, pay for the rest of your career!!!!

[Em773ER]

after reading several threads on the pilot rosters of other airlines, it seems low terms and conditions could be the least of a pilots worries these days. i know previous posts have outlined some topics within rosters, like the bidding system etc.

but i just want to know from CX SOs/FOs/Cpts, are your rosters reasonable? do they push the limits with duty time etc? (even if just barely legal), are the rosters highly fatiguing?, how do you feel about them? (in terms of workload, time off etc)

and one more topic (hopefully not a silly one), but how hard is the check for becoming JFO?, what is involved in the check?, and how do they asses/grade the check? (a pass mark?, fail one thing and you fail everything?)

thanks in advance if anyone could answer:ok:

[chchflyboy]

So on reading the JKI booklet I noticed it states that turbine engines combust at a constant volume... Yet researching various different books and to my own knowledge I'm pretty sure it occurs at a near constant pressure, opposed to that of the piston/reciprocating engine which occurs at a constant volume.

Theories?

[elgringo]

Theory?

Do as I did and many others... get, read, learn Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators.

[lost&found]

how hard is the check for becoming JFO?


why are you concerned with a JFO upgrade? get the job first....

[KPHL]

it take to here back from your stage one interview? From what I have read it says two weeks but does that mean that they will definitely call you within two weeks or could it take longer? The wait is killing me.

[orangeboy]

Generally, no news is good news. If you aren't successful they are normally pretty quick to inform you. Just be patient

[KPHL]

Well that makes me feel better, its only been a week though? Should I expect a phone call? Even if im in the us?

[Em773ER]

i don't want to throw any punches but nobody said anything about being concerned. i was just curious because apparently if one was to fail the upgrade they wouldn't keep "the job" would they :ugh:

[SloppyJoe]

most people pass the JFO upgrade.

[lost&found]

one was to fail the upgrade they wouldn't keep "the job" would they


my point is that you need to get through the interviews, the cadet program, ground school, LFUS, being checked to the line, annual line checks, numerous simulators before you even have to worry about a JFO upgrade. yes, if you believe you're not going to get through an upgrade, then dont apply. However, there is alot of water to go under the bridge before you have to worry about it. you may not even make it through the interviews.... enjoy the ride! you will get found out, soon enough, if you are not going to get through a JFO upgrade.

[crwjerk]

You'll get 3 or 4 goes at passing if you manage to screw up your upgrade. A fair question though, if one has never ever experienced any sort of check, or upgrade training course. It would all seem daunting.

[arjens]

Guys,

In the netherlands the situation is like this: You can start training for your frozen ATPL after paying 110.000 euro, which you will be paying off for many years afterwards paying 6 to 8% interest. If you are unlucky you can pay another 30.000 euro for a type rating, and if you are very unlucky you might get to fly a summer contract, or even having to pay for some hours on type.

The Dutch market is almost non-existant, so many get a place in eastern europe, turkey, or far away in e.g. Indonesia.

So.. How exactly is the CX cadet program bad? I really don't get it .. :(

[Em773ER]

anyone feel free to correct if i'm wrong:

the pros:
- you get your full training funded for you, including type rating later on (when upgrading to FO)
- you are guaranteed a job straight after training (provided you pass the cadet course, ground school etc)
- you are taught the "cathay way" from the start of your training
- you get to live in an exciting city HK
- apparently now you get some sort of minimal housing allowance
- if you are young and/or single, living on the T&C offered for C scale is doable

the cons:
- C scale
- minimal housing (10% if im correct?)... in an expensive city like HK = BAD
- you get proper housing once you are captain? (correct me if im wrong)
- you will get looked down upon by some pilots for "selling your soul to fly a shiny jet"
- accepting these lower T&C will make it bad for those on good T&C, which will also make you looked down upon
- you will be recognised as a sandwich eater for a good 4-5 years
- if you have a family or PLANNING on having one soon, this cadetship will make living hard on the low T&C


overall it depends what situation you are in. for the right candidate, this cadet program could work out fine despite its lower T&C. just be sure not to complain to any crew!!

and thanks sloppyjoe lost&found and crwjerk for your comments

[flynhigh]

you get proper housing once you are captain? (correct me if im wrong)

Was told time from SO to Capt 15 yrs maybe longer.....than you will only get HKG $24,000 per month hardly proper.:ugh:... the other problem is if they add that to you paycheck as income you will be taxed....in some cases tax double once by HKG than again by your home country:{....going rate is around $60,000....

[KPHL]

Does anyone know what the definition of physically fit is?

Im not fat but im also not skinny. I have some fat around me but not anywhere close to the point where I cannot perform my duties?

Is their a BMI limit?

[Cpt. Underpants]

BMI limit is 23 for an inductee.

Really though, at the start of your so-called career you should be height/weight proportional or you're in for a really hard time later on in life.

You'll never be as skinny or as good looking as you are now...

[Stallone]

haha

use the gyms at the hotels to keep in shape, fight the jetlag!!

[KPHL]

my bmi is at 25 right now which is considered over weight, so with that being said if I make it to stage 3 im out?

[NoseGear]

Not to worry KPHL, you'll soon find yourself in a great diet program...its called POVERTY!:E:};)

[KPHL]

....your hilarious

[polair911]

not to worry kphl, you'll soon find yourself in a great diet program...its called poverty!:e:};)

G.O.L.D :D

[Cpt. Underpants]

KPHL

The PMO will nix you if your BMI > 23, "stage 3" passed or not.

Seriously, you won't be able to afford the Twinkies or double Philly sangies on your S/O salary. Get used to a 2000 Kcal/day diet - and I hope you can learn to enjoy rice, bakchoi and pigs intestines!

[KPHL]

thank you for your concern about my financial situation but in all honestly I do not have a problem with money, my main concern is passing this medical.

[SloppyJoe]

I think the point they are making is that you will have a problem with money.

[flynhigh]

KPHL in action

YouTube - Tommy's New Job - Come Fly With Me - BBC One

[flynhigh]

6 yrs later...
YouTube - Tommy Gets A Promotion - Come Fly With Me - BBC One

[orangeboy]

KPHL, you've just done stage 1 right? If so, you've still probably got atleast another month before Stage 2/3 if you passed, so thats plenty of time to get in shape if you are worried. :)

[captain.weird]

Guys I have a question, lets say that I am trough the selection process and the hole thing, passed the CPP and working as a SO for CX. All the SO's are based in Hong Kong. Worked as a SO for 4 years and being promoted to FO, can I then go back to Europe, and take an European base? Lets say LHR, is it a possibility?
And is the housing allowance now be given for 100% or what? I read different things on the internet.. On every network it's different..

thanks allways..

[Cessna414CC]

You'll be based in HK until you're senior enough to take a slot in your home country/region assuming a slot opens up there. Expect to be in HK for a LONG time, from what I have been told

[NewZealand787]

KPHL dont worry bout that BMI too much. I got through and my BMI was around 27. I train quite hard at the gym though so dont have too much excess fat on me. Im sure if the doctor is concerned about it they will talk to you about it when you do your medical in stage 3. All the best.

[crwjerk]

FACT........ Some Captains and Senior First Officers will never be eligible to hold a base in their home countries. Your chances of being based anywhere other than Hong Kong are VERY slim. :{

[lost&found]

lets say that I am trough the selection process and the hole thing, passed the CPP and working as a SO for CX. All the SO's are based in Hong Kong. Worked as a SO for 4 years and being promoted to FO, can I then go back to Europe, and take an European base? Lets say LHR, is it a possibility?



again, what is it with you guys... you havent even got a job and are wondering about where you are going to live. i thought you REALLY wanted to fly a big shiny jet, thats why you have applied to CX at the grand old age of 18 - with years of life experience. If you really want to work for CX, a HK company, expect to live in HK. hold the phone..... shouldnt you be worrying about trying to pass the interview first????!

Captain Weird, you are in a long line of the desperate.... what do they say...? beggars can't be choosers... if you want to fly for CX, on these low conditions, dont expect to be able to "survive" 4 years as an SO and then be able to pick and choose where you want to go. you are going to be flying long haul, out of HK for the next 30 years! Get used to it. If you are lucky enough, you may one day be offered a base, but dont count your chickens! Just enjoy the ride.

[Stallone]

be prepared to stay n HKG for at least a decade before you have any chance of an overseas base, or if u get fed up, move to another airline...

overseas base is hardly possible, unless u apply for CX Cargo

[captain.weird]

Thank you very much guys who have answered my questions.

@lost&found: I am already expecting to live for a long time in Hong Kong. But I was just wondering about the possibility. Now I have the information to dont expect too much to get out of Hong Kong. But asking questions and wondering about the possibility, are those things come bad over to you? Or do I ask stupid questions... Not, I was not aware of the 'slots' and the huge amount of pilots which want to get out of Hong Kong. Now I know it. Thank you too for answering my question.

[carpet weaver]

Does anyone know where to find the most up to date salary for s/o's?

[yshiai]

Just been emailed about first interview in HK. I indicated Singapore as first choice and Hk 2nd choice. Applied in late Dec 2010. Didnt managed to go for the Spore interview leh but they gave me HK on May 11. Anyone?

[Stallone]

NICE!!

i think putting HK as 2nd choice will end up like your case

HK is also on my 2nd choice, but i haven't received any email from them..


Do note that if u reject going to HK, i'm afraid u'll have to wait till the next time they come to SG, which may be 2012 March-May..

[CACjapan]

Hi guys! Thank you so much for the very useful information. I'm a fresh graduate from Independent Administrative Institution Civil Aviation College, Japan.
I have JCAB(Civil Aviation Bureau of Japan) CPL and IR and 250hrs of FLT time. Actually I’m an Indonesian and have been in Japan for 10yrs.
I really want to be a pilot of CX, so if you don’t mind could you give me some info about the CX cadet pilot programme ?
And of course I wonder if we can help each other and make good friends too.
Thank you so much!

[captain.weird]

Guys,

This is a very informative thread, I hope we all can assume the high standards of CX.. But I have a question about the selection pass rates..

What are the pass rates over the selection processes?
Stage 1:
Stage 2:
Stage 3:
Stage 4(FG):

Somebody who has an idea??

Thanks!

[Blomqvist]

Hi guys.. has any1 who attended the Singapore selection in March received a response from CX yet?

[Stallone]

ask haliflex

[Em773ER]

what scale do cadet entry captains go on? C scale or it goes up by rank?
thanks

[SW1]

Anyone still needing to purchase the Ravens APM, contact me via PM!

[betpump5]

what scale do cadet entry captains go on? C scale or it goes up by rank?

You do actually realise that there is no such thing as C-Scale? It is just an affectionate term given to the B-Scalers that aren't on ex-pat terms.
Promotion to different ranks does not put you on a different scale. But yes, LEC will always remain on the B-Scale (C -Scale) regardless of the new 36K per month available to them.

[Em773ER]

Thanks for the info betpump5 :ok:

Just another quick question, do JFOs get a proper rating to log "real hours" and properly type rated as well?, and whats the difderence between JFO duties and a normal FO?
Cheers in advance

[SMOC]

You get a full rating as a JF/O it's all exactly the same as an F/O, the only thing different is, you guessed it the $$$ the company pays JF/Os less (for the same job) for 6 months to a year possibly more if you screw up.

[Em773ER]

thanks SMOC for that:ok:

another question, whats the most number of days (average) in a row SOs FOs Cptns get off in a month?

last question (to those who can be bothered)...

two pilots A and B

pilot A is self funded up to fATPL + MECIR + IR, builds hours instructing and doing GA + eventually RPT then gets into the cadetship with a solid 3000 hours or so...

meanwhile Pilot B a fresh out of highschool shiny jet groupie ab-initio gets into the cadetship

assuming they both start their position as S/O at the same time, are there ANY advantages at all (financial, career progression, T&Cs etc) that pilot A will have over pilot B? besides experience and decision making skills (and stories to tell)

like say for example would pilot A be offered an upgrade to JFO-FO-Cptn earlier or quicker?

thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some light:ok:
p.s im not implying that all icadets/wannabes are shiny jet groupies

[SloppyJoe]

Pilot A after gaining his 3000 hours would laugh at what CX is offering and find a better job.

If he was blinkered enough to join as a cadet he would have no advantage over pilot B, if B joined the day before he would be offered a JFO course first, command course first, would get the same trip they both requested as is more senior, would get on the last seat of a flight before pilot A using staff tickets.

[Em773ER]

so in other words... CX ≠ good T&C for new joiners :yuk:
at least for the time being seeing they are not recruiting either DEFOs or DESOs

[betpump5]

Em773ER,

you pose a good question. I think it was Titan404 who last year wrote a pretty good post showing that in a 30 year career as an example, a cadet (i.e no housing) would potentially lose 9million hong kong dollars. This is based on a very conservative housing allowance of 25'000 per month for 30 years.

The integrated course is roughly 1.1million. Basically, whilst one may think you are getting free traning, you are potentially paying 9X the integrated course therefore your CX traning is actually the most expensive course in the world.

Now my complaint at the time was that this was slightly idealistic and very black and white- i.e writing some very good financial maths to support his own opinion that can easily be twisted to support another. Because actually, you are not losing 9milllion, you are just 9million worse off than the guy sitting next to you and if you can deal with that and not be annoyed in 5/10/or 20 years time, then there is no problem then.

Playing devils advocate, I brought up other factors. Like what if CX never open up DESO/DEFO again. Or what if you spend 10 years flying GA in some godforsaken hell hole earning sod-all per hour gaining hours hoping to join whatever legacy carrier you dreamed off only to have your CV rejected like a hundred thousand others in the world. I can write one hundred other arguments as to why I think the scheme is not so bad and likewise, others will be able to write one hundred arguments as to why the scheme is crap.

This cadet scheme discussion has been on going since it opened up to internationals in June 2009. And it will never end.

Anyway Erm to answer your question, this airline has seniority numbers just like any other airline I'd assume and based on date of joining. When there is an upgrade coming up, and your number is next in line, then you go for the upgrade. There is NO difference between a 60 week cadet SO and a 6 week cadet SO with X'thousand hours in terms of career progression or finances etc.

The only difference is that the 6 week TT guy who has X'thousand hours under his belt will be ridiculed and disrespected by many. The main argument here is that these guys with all those hours and experience should not be accepting an offer that just 2 years ago was so much better. CX paid top premium in the past for experienced guys, and if those experienced guys are now taking the offer on lower terms, then it is bad for us all - the whole industry.

[crwjerk]

Em773ER
In addition to the excellent answers below/above ( whichever way you look at it )
I would suggest Pilot A would have a lot more confidence, spare capacity and better situational awareness than Pilot B. Pilot B's ability to follow a green or pink line on an ND will not be argued, but his ability to feel, hear, anticipate, sense, judge, think, love, nurture ( sometimes the BSJ's need this ) will definately be lacking. This will probably cause him to struggle through his training and checking, unless of course he is an Ace.

[captain.weird]

Nice post betpump!

I suppose you are a employee of CX? Based @VHHH.. Did you do the CX CPP too?

It is, as how I see it, a win-win situation. I know that a lot of people here will blame me but it is, how I see it. Those who can't afford a flight training can gain via this way their dreamjob. Okay, you won't get the best pay, but hey, you don't pay for your training and you don't have to search for a job! Know a lot of guys who are doing everything to get that right seat on a plane, with really NO answers to their e-mails, letters and things like that. I've been told that it is horrible to have a huge loan which grows and grows, looks unstoppable, and there are really a lot of people who are trying to get that same job on the plane.. There are now a lot of ab-initio's on the market with no work.

Via this chance I hope to enroll this CPP, so I don't have to take a huge loan and I don't have to search for a job! Okay, I will life at basic pay, but I've never lived rich.

Maybe some people want to add some things to my post?? Feel free! =D

Those which half a year ago to one year did the selection processes helped their mates here on PPRune.. C'me on people! There must be cadet prospectives here which went to the selection stages? No one wants to tell or give information about there stages? And how it went?..

CW

[crwjerk]

Maybe some people want to add some things to my post?? Feel free! =DThanks...... here's my addition.

":ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: :ugh::ugh:"

[captain.weird]

Thanks...... here's my addition.

No thanks.

Explain..??

[crwjerk]

You just said Maybe some people want to add some things to my post?? Feel free! =D

Enough explanation?

[captain.weird]

Yes but why: :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[flynhigh]

CW
your not the sharpest tool in the shed:\..you come here asking questions and when you don't like what your hear you say will the way I see it, this is win-win situation...Ok than if its win-win than why ask go and take the job...that is if they hire you:ugh:...God guys get a life.

[captain.weird]

I just wanted to tell my story.. is that so bad then?? And the true stories that I read here, okay, those who are okay with the offer will accept it, those who aren't wont. But I never said that I disliked the offer of CX..

[lost&found]

CW, with responses like this:


Via this chance I hope to enroll this CPP, so I don't have to take a huge loan and I don't have to search for a job!


you arent doing yourself any favours! Firstly, you dont have to take a huge loan for flight training... go get a job in McDonalds and spend each pay on flying! if you really want to be a pilot, you will do whatever it takes to get into a plane! It is very frustrating seeing people jumping at the cadet program because it is "free"... it makes my blood boil thinking that people are only applying, without 1 hour of experience, because they have seen an ad for the cadet program and have decided that it might be a fun thing to do. How do you even know you are going to enjoy it?

[Em773ER]

thanks everyone for your input!:ok:

i still wonder what CX will do if an exodus happens in a few years pilots leaving for different airlines, with their fleet expansion. maybe they will increase the T&Cs and start recruiting DEFOs and DESOs if they are not getting enough cadets to fill the right seats.... time will tell

[captain.weird]

Dear Lost&Found,

You interpretate my state incorrect. What I want to make clear is that it is really an advantage, in the case that if you are looking to your bankaccount. I'm already started with saving money for my PPL. To make this clear: I fly every ear with the local flying club. Not for a course, but for the adventure.

What I just want to make clear is that this is a huge opportunity for the most of us!

[404 Titan]

captain.weird

I suggest you do a little more research than the CX careers website. Let’s look at two people that join CX. One as an ab-initio cadet and the other as a DESO. Both stay with CX for 6 years and then leave.

Ab-initio Cadet

1. Cost of pilot training paid by you with “Forgivable Loan” from CX = HK$1,100,000.00

2. After 6 years the “Forgivable Loan” is classed by the Inland Revenue Department as income and is taxed at the highest marginal rate of 17% = HK$187,000.00

3. 6 Years of “Housing Cash Allowance” = HK$720,000.00

4. Tax on Housing = HK$122,400.00

5. Net Financial Gain after 6 years = HK$410,600.00

DESO

1. Cost of privately funding pilot training = HK$540,000.00

2. 6 Years of “Housing Allowance, owner occupier” = HK$3,813,600.00 (Based on April 2011 housing assistance)

3. Tax on Housing = HK$648,312.00

4. Net Financial gain after 6 years = HK$2,625,288.00

So what has the cadet scheme costed you? The difference between the DESO and Cadet net financial gains = HK$2,214,688.00 which in Australian dollars = AU$266,830.00. That’s a pretty expensive flying training course no matter which way you look at it. My advice is there isn’t a free lunch.

Basair flying training courses (http://www.basair.com.au/index.php/learn-to-fly/basair-courses.html)

[Thierry121]

Hi Everyone,

After thoroughly reading this thread for some time, I have come to the conclusion that the CPP is not as attractive as CX make it out to be, and whilst at first I was a bit skeptical as to the disadvantages compared to the advantages, I've made an informed decision as to possibly decline the current contract terms (if I get that far).

I'll have to thank 404 for speaking out about the true restraints of the current offer, and whilst I thought 404 was a bit of a tight A55 at first, you were only trying to help (Which is confirmed through various threads years earlier!)

Anyway good luck to all those applying, but read between the lines and whether you'll be willing to stick it out as a career and not merely free training! :ok:

[captain.weird]

Dear Titan 404,

I've done a lot of research and you gave me the numbers which I already knew. Still I'm doing reserch, never is it too much.

I'm aware of the financial side of the contract.

From now on I want to retreat myself and read the posts here.

Thank you very much for your post Titan 404!

CW

[SloppyJoe]

If you don't have any flying experience it is a good deal. As you point out 404 you are far worse off than a DESO after 6 years but lets think about the other option and how it usually works out for most guys with a CPL/IR. You pay for your training and then don't get a job. Most people who get a CPL/IR never end up working for an airline or flying anything other than a light piston if they are lucky enough to get a job flying.

If you already have a couple of thousand hours don't sell yourself short, you have done the hard bit getting that first flying job.

[joshgetting]

Hey, I'm just curious to know was to what happened with Cathay. It might be posted here somewhere but I haven't found it yet.

Thanks!
Josh

[404 Titan]

SloppyJoe

That may be the case but the vast majority that have the will, the enthusiasm, the passion and the persistence will make it. Just in any walk of life there will be those that don’t have a clue. My experience from 26 years in the industry is that most make it.

I should point out that the figures I gave in my previous quote are the best case for an iCad. If they were to resign the day before six years the figure blows out to HK$3,127,688.00 or in AUS dollars AU$376,830.00. If they were to stay until 65 the figure would be in excess of AU$1,000,000.00 but I will have to work that figure out more accurately when I have a bit more time.

captain.weird
I've done a lot of research and you gave me the numbers which I already knew.
How would you know the figures? Unless you work for CX the numbers I have used are confidential and only known to those already working here.

If you really want to sign up for a flying training course that is effectively going to cost you as little as AU$266,830.00 or as much as AU$1,000,000.00+ when you could do it privately for about AU$65,000.00 be my guest.:ugh:

[404 Titan]

cx_773er
In thinking of worst case scenarios, if it really did get that bad why could a cadet not just move to another airline elsewhere and just leave HK? I understand that they are tied to the company for 6 years after completion of flight training and that they will become a second officer logging p2x hours immediately after this, but surely after a 4 years or so they will be able to log hours deemed worthy by other airlines? The last two years then of those 6 they would then be accumulating loggable hours which could be used to apply to some other airline.
You are making the assumption that your upgrade will happen in 4 years. It may be more or it may be less. The track record over the last 11 years is that it will get longer overall with short durations of more rapid upgrades. When I joined upgrades were happening in 18 months. It has been as long as 4.5 years and is currently just over 4 years. With CX in the not too distant future changing the crewing composition on Ultra Long Haul flights from 1xCapt, 2xFO’s & 1xSO to 1xCapt, 1xFO & 2xSO’s upgrades could very well blow out to 6+ years.
Surely then could this not be a good stepping stone to stick it out with CX for a while and then move on once those 6 years are up (or you may even end up finding you like it and decide to stay!).
What you need to understand is that you using CX as a stepping stone rather than a career airline because you have accepted inferior T&C’s only makes it worse for us already here. It puts downward pressure on our T&C’s. It also lowers the conditions across the industry because airlines will only pay what the market dictates and you have already lowered the bar.
Yes the training is expensive but given the fact that to begin training requries obtaining a huge loan from somewhere with no gurantee of finding employment afterwards, the cx deal seems quite good?
Why do you need to get a loan? You could join the military or you could do as I did, work full time for four years while at the same time going to university part-time and learning to fly on the weekends. It took me four years to get my licence all debt free. You need to think outside the box if you want to succeed in life and this is the first step.
Also, with the bond lasting 6 years, what would happen if a cadet thought enough is enough, i cannot put up with these conditions and decided they wanted to just leave? What would the resulting fine/penalty be?
If you leave before 6 years the HK$1.1M loan has to be repaid in full.

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX 777er

how have you found relations between HR and pilots?

Do yourself a massive favour and read John Warhams' book - "The 49ers The True Story"

Available from Amazon.com either in print or on Kindle. Reading it well and truly p!sses me off, brings it all back. It should be mandatory reading for any prospective new joiner.

[404 Titan]

cx_773er

There is nothing stopping someone from Europe where I acknowledge the cost of pilot training is prohibitively expensive, going to the USA i.e. Florida, and doing their training there. There is a whole industry there that has built their business around this type of training. With the low US$ this would make this path especially attractive to Europeans. Once the training is completed then taking that licence to Africa, South America or Asia and gaining some real world experience. I went to Papua New Guinea. Again one must think outside the box if one wants to succeed in this industry. Job’s very rarely come to those that aren’t prepared to take a gamble. Go where the jobs are.

[Samwheel]

Just wondering why you used the "cash housing" compared to the "owner occupied housing"? would it be possable to compare the with the same housing allowance??

Thanks for doing all the work to show what the real cost is:D

Cheers

Samwheel

[404 Titan]

Samwheel

The whole point is that the iCads aren’t on the same housing assistance as DESO’s employed in 2008 and prior. I have been very generous and assumed that the iCad will use his cash allowance to pay off a mortgage which in reality is very doubtful. If they use it to just pay rent then they may as well be flushing the HK$720,000.00 down the toilet as it is only going into someone elses pocket but they are paying the tax on it. So as you can see I have been very conservative with my figures.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Those at help out in recruitment basically fall into two catagories 1) self serving who believe that the company will look favourably upon them for future management rolls. 2) those on long term sick leave that are able and assigned to do it.
The pilots roll in the interview process is purely to ask technical questions, if they decided to start lecturing the candidate on the real iCad's situation they would be hauled out by the HR guys and wouldn't be doing interviews again.
Therefore looking at the big picture, 404 is doing exactly what you are asking for, those in CX warning iCads on their impending doom.

[KPHL]

At least they are giving cadets some sort of payment towards housing. In America, not only will you not get any compensation for housing, they will pay you less than a McDonalds employee to fly 5 legs a day...take what you can and be thankful.

This job is not for people who have a family to feed, this is for a young single guy with no commitments. Sure its going to be tough for the first couple years, I understand Hong Kong is expensive but you have to find a way to get by, get a roommate (maybe another cadet), take public transportation, maybe dont go out as much. This is a great opportunity people, you have to always look down the road. You can take out a loan or work 5 days a week and pay for your flight training, sure, I did it...but does that mean you're going to get hired by an airline now that you have a commercial license? By getting on with CX, you are securing yourself a future. Tons and tons of american pilots would give their left nut to leave their job in the US to come fly for Cathay..this is a great job!...Many airlines now days are cutting back by furloughing, pay cuts, termination of pension's and so on. Why not work for an airline that has never furloughed in almost over 70 years?

Lets say this, you have 250 hours, a commercial, instrument rating and a multi engine rating, now what? Who in the hell is going to put you anywhere near a jet? I'll tell you who, no one! Not only did it take you a couple years of training to get your ratings, you gotta spend another couple years building flight time now (not to mention all the money you have spent). Last I checked the requirement for a DESO at CX is "A minimum of 1000 hours fixed wing". That is a lot of flight time to build. Remember, the golden rule about a successful career at an airline is "Seniority", Seniority is everything in an airline. You want to get in sooner than later. I personally would suggest to anyone who wants a career in the aviation industry and is willing to live in hong kong to apply for this position.

Worst case senerio, you leave Cathay after six years and start over somewhere else....believe me, any airline that see's you have six years of 777, A330/340, 747 cruise pilot time, would love to hire...dont think just because your not doing takeoff's and landings that your time in the plane isnt valuable.

If your really worried about the money you will loose if you are a Cadet or a DESO, do yourself a favor, get your ratings and flight time, apply and just maybe you will get hired...

Thats just my 2 cents, you can either take it or leave it...

Cheers



Source: Plenty of family in the aviation industry, and in training departments at major us airlines.

[VarigMD11]

All I can say is: become and instructor, fly a C206 in the bush, experience real flying for a few years before pushing buttons!

[Em773ER]

As we discussed earlier (pilot A and pilot B) if you are planning to get into the cadet program don't bother getting "experience" as the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

sure you may have good flying skills, good decision making skills etc

but you will be forever looked down upon for accepting the low T&C
you will have ZERO benefits compared to some ab initio (provided you start as SO at same time). even worse while you're out there "gaining experience", if some ab initio gets to S/O first, he/she will progress far ahead of you in seniority.

i can understand why its important to have GA experience but if there are captains in CX who were ab initio cadets, then surely this cadet program must provide sufficient training to become a decent captain.

thats just my 2 cents

[Forward CofG]

cx_773er,

Cathay provides a P2X endorsement when you qualify as an S/O. This is a simulator only rating and qualifies you to operate as Cruise pilot only.

If you have a look at the minimum requirements for entry into Emirates , Qatar and Etihad, you will see that S/O time is not highly regarded.

From Emirates website mins include :A minimum of 4000 hours total flying time (may include 25% P3 or FEO time to a max of 500 hr).

If Cathay is able to schedule Longhaul flying with 1x capt, 1x f/o, and 2x s/o, which may be the case shortly. Upgrade time could exceed 6 years ( already been stated above). If this happens then the time to reach the minimum requirements for the Middle East carriers is probably 10 years. To be competetive , probably 12-14 years.

Do you wish to waste 10 years of your life on a poor contract with Cathay, only to start at the bottom of another carrier? It does not make much sense.

To remain at Cathay for your entire carrier will not give you a comfortable lifestyle until the 15 to 20 year mark when you eventually make Captain ( if you pass the upgrade).
In the meantime unless you remain celibate until 45 or 50 years old you will probably have to factor in a wife and family. Are they going to be happy to share an apartment wil other guys. How about living in a 600 sq ft apartment for the next 15-20 years.

If you use a bit of common sense you will see it is not a logical career move.

[Cessna414CC]

Although few people would really know when/if this would ever happen, does anyone had an educated guess as to the likelihood of DESO of even DEFO ever returning to CX?
How successful has the Cadet program been, before international and inclusive of, at producing good pilots when upgrade time comes? I realize these questions may have no answer, but there must be people out there reading this who are in the 'know' regarding the relative success of the program from a piloting/upgrade standpoint?

[crwjerk]

cx_773er

but you will be forever looked down upon for accepting the low T&C
you will have ZERO benefits compared to some ab initio (provided you start as SO at same time). even worse while you're out there "gaining experience", if some ab initio gets to S/O first, he/she will progress far ahead of you in seniority.You are sort of correct but missing the bigger picture.
If you all joined as Ab-initio there are no advantages. The only advantages are for CX who've successfully reduced the conditions of new joiners.
By not accepting, CX will have to raise it.
The more of you that 'get to S/O first' ensures the deal will never be improved. The guy who goes out to get real flying experience, can see that this deal is no good and wants something better. That's why relatively nobody has accepted it.

[Cpt. Underpants]

EM777

The point that many are trying to make here is that these are "golden handcuffs". In case you're not a native English speaker, here's a definition:

golden handcuffs
pl.n. Slang (used with a sing. verb)
A lucrative incentive to an executive intended to discourage resignation or ensure long-term cooperation after departure.


Don't take this dumb offer. You will forever regret it. It has to be the most expensive "free" training ever offered. If you're in doubt, solicit the services of a financial advisor to look it over on your behalf. If he/she tells you to go for it...fine. Then fire him.

[SMOC]

HK

http://www.cad.gov.hk/application/Upgrade%20Form%20ATPL-A.pdf

Convert to JAA

JAA Conversion - Airline Pilot Central Forums (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/27439-jaa-conversion.html)

Convert to Aust.

HTTP://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/fcl/download/atpl_guidelines.pdf

You may have to stay at CX a little longer just to be able to get the hours to convert your HK ATPL. A lot of your P2X hours will be worth little to nothing in the eyes of other authorities.

[Fong3r]

Hey guys!

I've read the thread from page one till this page and it is VERY interesting to say the least. But my question is (for those willing to help out): although Cathay says we do not need a degree to apply; would it matter if we do or don't? And being a someone who has next to no flying hours (15 hours cessna, 2.5 Alt Sim), a citizen of HK but living in Vancouver B.C... is it a wise idea to apply for Cathay pacific to the cadet program? Thank you for all those who reply

Fong3r

[orangeboy]

Hey Fong3r, i guess if you meet the minimum education requirements then i see no problem. Having a degree may help, how much? I guess it depends on what other things you can bring to the table, e.g. flying hours, age, other relevant experience.

As for you being a HK citizen, i think that is a big plus. And although you have only 15 hours, its better than alot of people who have no hours what so ever. More over, i'm sure you're building hours to either a PPL or CPL, so if you do apply and manage to get to an interview, you would have a whole heap more hours by then!

Since you mentioned you've read the thread, the last 20-40 pages gives a pretty good oversight of the current conditions, and the biggest thing is housing. I think for people who already have a house/unit in HK, then the program is very attractive and a great opportunity. The real problem seems to be for non HK citizens and residents, who may find the exorbient HK housing prices a bit steeper than what they're probably use to seeing.

IMO, i think you should apply, you have some basic things that are more advantageous than many applicants :)

[Bye Bye Baby]

To all the guys saying "I'll do my 6-8 years and then move on". Think about this. If you accept the job, you are lowering the industry standard, where are you going to move to? CX gets guys in the door for a package which is quite frankly embarrassing, next EK say well if we offer these guys 2c more they come to us, where are you going to go and recoup the ammout you have lost over those years?

[arjens]

Are you guys serious?

Of course I can understand this stance but what about the guys actually creating this mess? Those aren't the Ab-Initio's! Those are the guys allready flying! If the contracted pilots would actually do something then that would really make an impact. Now it only affects me.

So, very noble and so forth to say no. But what if you just want to fly and take the opportunity?

Then you are shun forever by the guys already living their dream.

So; flame me - but there are two sides to this story.

It's not like you are actually paying for your hours, and that's what currently happens. Compared to many offers CX's offer is still incredible.

What I am more interested about is the actual flying roster.

Either way: my point is that the pilots actually flying can make a much bigger impact than the ones dreaming about becomming one.

[arjens]

You are missing my point.

[Em773ER]

Quote:
my point is that the pilots actually flying can make a much bigger impact than the ones dreaming about becomming one.

just out of curiosity, how does CX handle pilot strikes?. say a bunch of S/Os on the iCad T&Cs didn't show up to work or something, what would that do?


and i just want to know what pushed CX to introduce the 10k/mth allowance?

[Em773ER]

read this article. its a couple months old but im just curious if it actually is true?

Cathay Pacific pilots were to bid on them by raising salaries to 12 percent after the company’s pilots are threatening not to work on Christmas day. And after that happened, the thing gets clear and benefits for the pilots themselves. They finally got the higher salary than before. Quoted from the Straits Times, Sunday (01/02/2011), within the past six weeks, 1,800 members of the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association called for a number of agreements, including salary increases which increased by more than 30 percent.
“We believe that this package is very good and we hope that our pilots will see it all balanced and there are still many problems to be discussed with representatives of the pilot as long as we are negotiating with them,” said a spokesman for Cathay Pacific anonymity.
Flag carrier based in Hong Kong will give an award to the pilot with up to nine percent wage increase and subsequently by two-three per cent in May 2012. Related to this issue, the union could not be reached for comment, but chairman Peter Vinna just had explained in the letter that this is a good start to fix the salary level and form the foundation on which to base further than before.

[crwjerk]

Unfortunately, Chinese newspapers have to write in baby China speak, so when it is directly translated, it sounds like a kid wrote it. I don't even know what it refers to.

[AsL402]

Hello All, haven't posted on this forum for quite some time but i have been reading it regularly. Just want to see if anyone can give me some recommendations given my situation.

I did not make it pass Stage 2 last year in June as a 0 hour, Permanent HKID holding applicant. So they told me to reapply in 10 months. It has been 10 months and I was able to get a new application login a few days ago. Here is the dilemma, I have been working on my PPL and have a little more than 50 hours, about a month or two away from my check ride.

Should I submit my application now hoping I can get a sooner Interview? Or, should I submit it after i get my PPL? If i submit it now, am i able to log back in and update my hours the qualifications?

Thanks in advance!

[SloppyJoe]

You are in LA at the moment, I assume flying. Why if you have 50 hours do you think it will be another couple of months? I will be totally honest, if you have been in LA doing your PPL and you have so far flown 50 hours but your instructor thinks it will be another couple of months so say another 10-20 hours if you just fly at the weekends, I would not be surprised if you don't make it through again. Of course go for it, you almost have a PPL but flying is not for everyone and if it is going to take you 60-70 hours to get a PPL I would say doing it professionally is not for you. Not trying to be mean but this is exactly what CX will be thinking, why did it take you 70 hours to get a PPL?

[AsL402]

SloppyJoe,

Thanks for the comments. The reason why it will take me another month or so is because I am on a break due to the costs of training. My instructor said I was about ready at 48 hours. But when I pick this back up in the near future, I believe that I might need a few more hours than usual for review. Hopefully this won't affect CX's decision if I get an interview.

[SloppyJoe]

If you can explain it and that sounds fair enough then I would not worry. But that is one of the main things they will be looking for, its the whole point of flight grading. Your whole career is tests and training and if it takes longer than normal it will cost them more.

[Cpt. Underpants]

EM777

just out of curiosity, how does CX handle pilot strikes

You are kidding, right?

Unless you've been living in a cave in Tora Bora with Osama, you HAVE to have at least READ about the "49ers".

See the empty space (top RHS) on your browser? Type in the words "Cathay 49ers" (without the inverted commas).

Get some popcorn and a coke (I don't think you're of legal drinking age) and read away...

[Fong3r]

Orange Boy!

Thanks for the reply! That really helped. Yes, to be honest I agree with what most of the folks are saying on this thread. The standard of living in HK is RIDICULOUS! Having lived there myself before, I can understand why not having a housing allowance is crap (Although, I believed that has changed now, correct me if I'm wrong). But, lucky for me, we still have family and have property back home, so it's not such a bad idea. As for my PPL and CPL, I am holding off on that. I am currently trying to get my associates degree first and then I will apply to CX. However, after hearing the arguments and the facts I am thinking twice, regardless, thank you for the input Orange Boy

Cheers, Fong3r

[Em773ER]

no need for patronizing. i have only briefly heard of the 49ers. i will read it, thanks.

[PurdueFlight]

Good luck to everyone who has interviews in San Francisco this week! Mine is tomorrow.

[shaddy]

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has heard back from Cathay Pacific in the April Interviews?

[easycompany]

Would someone be able to give me an idea of the questions asked in the stage 1 interview for someone applying for the advanced cadet program ie the 250 hour course.

Thanks

[flyinryan76]

Purdueflight check your p.m.'s

[SW1]

If you have an upcoming Stage 1 interview and need to purchase the Ravens reasoning test? Contact me va PM.

[Fong3r]

Hahaha! yes, yes it is still crap, No doubt about it, but from rumors I hear that at least instead of zero, there is 10,000 HKD monthly for housing now. (Still crap, way better than nothing...but not close to what is needed). However, for folks like myself who are blessed with housing and food and family there already. It isn't too crap of an idea.

Fong3r

[Stallone]

pass stage 1

pass stage 2

pass stage 3

pass flight grading



then decide whether to accept the offer..

[KPHL]

so mommy and daddy are going to house and feed you for 30 years?

People are pretty damn negative on this site...Why do you care what he does? Worry about yourself big guy....

[orangeboy]

cx_773er,

i would assume that anybody attending flight grading would take a few refresher lessons or solo flights just to make sure they can still do all the things they will be assessed on.

As a for a low hour flyer, how low? If still near 0, i would be inclined to take more lessons. I would read the theory behind the the flying you will be assessed on and make sure you understand what is required to complete that certain section of flight e.g. steep turns, stalls etc. Couch flying would also be beneficial i think in helping you mentally go through checklists and procedures.

Goodluck:ok:

[Captain Dart]

Did you join on B-Scale, Dan?

[404 Titan]

KPHL

You have missed not just Dan Buster’s point but also others that are already here, which doesn’t surprise me considering you are only 21 and have almost zero life experience. To base any life decision on your current circumstances only is quite frankly irresponsible and incredibly naive. This is a life changing decision requiring long term considerations. Too publically state that yes the new housing is still crap but it doesn’t affect me because I have extended family in Hong Kong is breathtakingly short sighted and shouldn’t go unchallenged. I will make this very clear to you and Fong3r who is just as wet behind the ears. Even local cadets that CX has been hiring for the last 22 years have on average lived with their families for no more than 3 years after joining CX. Everyone’s circumstances changes and local cadets aren’t any different. To base your decision without considering all the possible changes to your life’s circumstances will only end in tears. Considering that upgrades are potentially going to take 6+ years after completing your training in Adelaide because of change in crewing requirements expected later this year, you won’t have a licence that is recognisable and therefore easily transferable for at least 8-9years. That is a lifetime in an airline seniority system which you will have to start all over again if you decide to leave CX and start with another airline that may offer a better deal.

Lastly I will say it again. Every time a new cadet joins CX on these grossly inferior conditions of service, only puts further pressure on the conditions of service of existing CX pilots. You only have to look at the last 20 years to see that CX have done this before and are now doing it again.

[KPHL]

I AM!!! That's why I'm so damn negative on these new crap contracts. Every person who accepts this crappy contract makes it easier for the company to eventually degrade MY contract. If NO ONE accepted this crap deal, CX would be forced to hire pilots on proper terms and conditions.
So don't worry KPHL, I AM worried about myself.

You should know by now that someone will always do your job for less, this is not something new...So by you discouraging people not to accept this job, its not working, guess what, if they offer me a job, I AM going to accept it....

[ChinaBeached]

I wasn't aware that being still on the nipple at age 20+ makes it OK to take it up the........

And a lot of us did have the balls to NOT be a sell out and "do it for less" because the nipple I was weened off taught me integrity & not to crap on your colleagues or industry.

In the near future kids like yourselves will change usernames & start berating this great "opportunity". You'll condemn those new joiners who will crawl over broken glass to undercut the terms & conditions you have. You may grow a spine & stand up to naive children lowering further & further what many worked so hard maintain.

[PurdueFlight]

there's a housing allowance of 10,000...better than nothing. It was written in the little job description guide they gave me before the interview.

[404 Titan]

KPHL
You should know by now that someone will always do your job for less, this is not something new...So by you discouraging people not to accept this job, its not working, guess what, if they offer me a job, I AM going to accept it....
Oh boy I’m going to have fun flying with you grasshopper, assuming you even get here. If you want to be treated like a leper, that attitude will make Hong Kong a very lonely place.

By the way numnuts, why do you think CX has had to improve the cadet contract twice? It’s not because CX are really nice people but it’s because they aren’t getting the number of suitable applicants they need. Fact.

[404 Titan]

PurdueFlight

I think you need to do a little more research before you just relent to the HK$10,000 per month housing insult. Do some actual research into housing costs in Hong Kong, what the inflation rate is here and how you will deal with steeply rising rents with an allowance that isn’t indexed to the Hong Kong housing index and therefore inflation.

[uspilot]

Hey Hoagie I mean KPHL

How is your diet coming along:eek:...you need to first lose some weight before even thinking about getting a job...while your at it get life...

[easycompany]

Dan Buster and 404 Titan, just out of curiosity did you join cx on B-scale or A-scale?

[Stallone]

:eek::eek::eek:

what are you gonna do to him?

[Em773ER]

You are correct that by people accepting these lower T&Cs, it will pressure CX into lowering your conditions; however i am curious as to how much CX can or will LOWER your conditions before an exodus occurs. Keep in mind that CX is already having trouble getting the required number of iCadet applicants therefore "improving" the cadet contract (twice as mentioned by 404 titan). Imagine if they lowered your conditions to the bare minimum, they would lose a lot of pilots. Unlike iCadets, you guys actually have proper experience/type ratings and you could go to other airlines. So yes i believe they may lower your conditions but they wouldn't reduce them to the point of threatening the whole aviation industry on a large scale (one can only hope). Any thoughts?

[SMOC]

The problem with having experience is that it comes with seniority and there is virtually no airline job where you can leave as a Captain without taking a pay cut with your new employer as you will now be an F/O or lower.

Airlines know this, you only have to pay market forces at entry level positions as seen by the recent pay rises for ICadet S/O and F/Os which got 30% and 20% respectfully, the 1st yr ICadet Capt package pay rise was 0%.

The only thing CX has to fear is airlines offering direct entry commands at near current pay scales which unfortunately rarely if ever happen. :{

[404 Titan]

Em773ER

Do you know how airline seniority works? If you do you would realise the higher your seniority the more you have to lose leaving one airline to go to another and starting at the bottom both in rank and seniority. The airlines, not just CX know this which gives them huge leverage in screwing down the CofS of senior crew. They know the cost of leaving is more than the cost of staying.

easycompany

“A” scale has been dead since 1993. Out of 2700 pilots employed by CX, less than 200 are still on “A” scale and in some cases “B” scale is more than “A” scale.

[Fong3r]

Whoa! Well, first of all...Remember, even though I do have family over there. I'm not JUMPING on the idea, because I know that it is crap, complete crap. So, my question is; when will the next better deal coming along?

Dan Buster and Titan 404!
You guys are in the industry already, much much respect to you guys. Thank you so much for the input, chances are you guys know the real deal better than others! Dan Buster, I pray I don't have to live on mommy and daddy. But, I do want to become a pilot.

Fong3r

[Em773ER]

Thats fair enough, i didn't think about seniority. I guess the question now is how far can CX really lower your T&Cs. What are the chances of CX removing housing and lowering pays for you guys?

[404 Titan]

Em773ER

Well in 1999 they placed a sign or be fired letter in hundreds of CX pilots mail boxes forcing them to accept severe pay cuts. Does that help answer your question?

[Em773ER]

yes it does!. that has changed my entire view of CX management. now i understand why all the current B scalers are not excited about this iCadet program. i personally wouldn't be happy showing up to work (as SO) knowing that because of me, my captain and FO(s) T&Cs are at threat. AND their families. a bit selfish actually. but its a cruel world out there, theres always gona be people willing to do your jobs for less because its all they have ever gotten.

correct me if im wrong on this but what amazes me is how CX, despite of record profits, and a small pilot turnover why they would keep doing this :ugh:... unless there's something i don't know?

[crwjerk]

Some of you kids are asking good questions and some are just being total eff wits...... For the latter, please HTFU and don't bring your attitudes to my flight deck. It won't cut with me, or most of the other guys here trying to tell you how it really is.

[GTC58]

Just heard that some of the cadet courses will be deferred as not enough qualified applicants are available to fill these courses. It seems there is no lack of applicants, however many of them are not able to pass the interview process. I guess the low conditions for international cadets attracting a different demographic of applicants who have a hard time to pass the Cathay standard.

[Victor Wong]

Hi all,

I was reading "Pilot Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge". There is one example I didnt quite understand the expression of the question,

hope one can explain a bit.


the sample from the book is
<<
Density Altitude Charts
Use a density altitude chart to figure the density altitude at the departing airport. Using Figure 10-21, determine the density altitude based on the given information.
Sample Problem 1
Airport Elevation...............................................5,88 3 feet
OAT......................................................... ..................70 °F
Altimeter................................................... ........30.10" Hg
First, compute the pressure altitude conversion. Find 30.10 under the altimeter heading. Read across to the second column. It reads “–165.” Therefore, it is necessary to subtract 165 from the airport elevation giving a pressure altitude of 5,718 feet. Next, locate the outside air temperature on the scale along the bottom of the graph. From 70°, draw a line up to the 5,718 feet pressure altitude line, which is about two-thirds of the way up between the 5,000 and 6,000 foot lines. Draw a line straight across to the far left side of the graph and read the approximate density altitude. The approximate density altitude in thousands of feet is 7,700 feet.>>
The answer and calculation make sense. However, in the question, it said the airport elevation is 5883ft, and altimeter is 30.10"Hg. If the alimeter is placed at this height(eg, at the airport , or in the a/c which is landed on that airport), even if there is variation of pressure due to weather, should the reading be a lot lower that 29.92".

let say, if pressure at sealevel is 29.92", not matter what is the elevation of the a/c (eg, at 3000' or 38000'), should the pilot still set the altimeter datum point to 29.92'. if so,you should not get 30.10"Hg at 5800'.

how do the pilots or ATC use or set the altimeter.

Thanks

[chchflyboy]

30.10 would be assumed to be the pressure at sea level for this given scenario.
if your flying anywhere from sea level to the transition level (in NZ between 13,000 and FL150) you will have the area QNH set. This way all the aircraft are near enough to flying with the same pressure setting to avoid collision and give accurate height above MSL. Aircraft have transponders which when set to the correct setting, 'ALT' or Mode C, display the aircrafts current position and height to ATC on radar. Also known as secondary surveillance radar. Above the transition level all aircraft are on 29.92" for ATC accuracy purposes.
As for your question I assume they just mean the altimeter setting has been set by a pilot who knows what the pressure is at sea level.
As for the mechanics, the pilot has a small dial on the transponder, (or electronic switch for glass cockpit) where they can set the QNH or QNE so the altimeter is accurately showing its pressure altitude.

Have you flown before?

[airburkina]

I was on stage1 last summer, and did not make it unfort. Now it seems like I can reapply again, when I visit CX website! :rolleyes: It has almost been one year since I met them, is it still to soon to reapply? Does anyone have experience from reapplication to CX and been invited for att new try?

Thank´s alot!

[Em773ER]

Just a quick question regarding what the chances are of getting put on a particular fleet as a S/O and upon JFO check completion. Is airbus higher rate of allocation than boeing or vice versa?

Thanks in advance!

[carpet weaver]

I know they say two weeks but how long does it normally take to hear back from a stage one interview? Im coming up on four weeks.