How to convert my frozen ATPL to a normal ATPL?

[foreverboeing]

Hi guys,
I am holding a frozen JAR ATPL and currently I am flying in an another JAR country(under validation) than my original licence country which is Germany.As far as I know when I have 1500 hours I could get my ATPL automaticly.When I aplied to german dgca they replied me that I have to do a simulator check with a aproved german TRE !:( The JAR aproved TRE of the country which I am flying is not valid!
So where is the logic of JAR and isn't it a discrimination?
If somebody can give me a idea or some updated info I will be appreciated,Have safe landings.....

[potkettleblack]

As far as I know when I have 1500 hours I could get my ATPL automaticly.

Its a common misconception that its automatic. Firstly you need to tick all the boxes in terms of hours on multi pilot aircraft and the other requirements eg: night hours etc. Then there is the small matter of the licence skill test (LST). The UK has a document called LASORS which details all of the requirements and its downloadable from the CAA website. Whether its mirrors the rules in Germany I have no idea.

Its their train set and they set the rules. The options open to you are renting a sim for your aircraft type and finding a German registered TRE who will come and conduct the LST. Another option to run past the Germans might be to have a German TRE "observer" in the back of the sim and getting them to sign off on your LST bits and pieces. You would need to agree this with all parties involved and of course ensure that your airline will have sufficient spare time at the end of the OPC to do the LST (some don't). Finally you could convert your CPL to the state where you are working and then the next time you are in the sim you could combine the OPC and LST (airline permitting). On successful completion your "new" state of issue will give you the ATPL. You could then transfer this back to Germany at a later date if you so wished. Although there will be fees involved it might work out cheaper than renting sims and/or getting foreign TRE's to your location.

PS: A frozen ATPL doesn't exist and has no legal standing.

[Otto Throttle]

The additional requirements for the ATPL Licence Skills Test involve nothing more (and I stand to be corrected, as usual :)) than a manual, raw data ILS.

You could justifiably feel hard done by if your employer was not able to incorporate this one item into your next OPC or LPC. All the other requirements for the LST are already included in the OPC or LPC.

[redbar1]

Foreverboeing:

Sorry to confirm the harsh fact that a "frozen JAR-FCL ATPL" is non-existent.

I assume you hold a JAR CPL/IR/ME+TypeRating. You say you are working in another JAA state, on a VALIDATION??? Just curious what JAA state requires to validate a JAR-FCL-license?

BTW, I seem to remember that UK CAA many years ago actually HAD a scheme for a "Frozen ATPL", somewhat like today's MPL, in very close cooperation with some operator. Instead of a "classic" skilltest for CPL/IR/ME, you did a multi-pilot skilltest on type, and when you reached 1500hrs, MP time, PICUS, etc, with the operator, you would have your ATPL. I seem to remember that not many actually did qualify, but the phraze stuck!! And today, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "frozen JAA ATPL"

If anyone has more details, I'll be happy to refresh my memory on this. As said, maaany moons ago...

Cheers,
Redbar1

[IRISHPILOT]

potkettleblack is spot on.

redbar1: Turkey requires a validation of JAR licences even though it has mutual recognition itself (not true for every JAR licence in Turkey but for some).

[potkettleblack]

The additional requirements for the ATPL Licence Skills Test involve nothing more (and I stand to be corrected, as usual ) than a manual, raw data ILS.

Depends on who does it. Some TRE's take the view that since the ATPL infers on you the legality to be a commander then they expect you to display some of these qualities during the LST. You might for example be on departure and experience a medical emergency in the cabin, tech problem, or incapacitation of your captain and low and behold you are required to turn back and land asap. And just for good measure its a raw data ILS thrown into the mix as well. It really depends on who you have on the day. Some guys get "positioned" in the sim for a 10 mile final fully configured straight in. Others don't.

The regulatory authorities reserve the right to attend (notice required) in which case expect the full monty if your really unlucky. Full pre flight briefings, push and start off stand, taxi out etc.

[redbar1]

Potkettleblack is bang on again. For the ATPL skilltest, there will be increased focus on Non-Technical skills, such as supervision of flight/ops, managerial skills, decisionmaking, and so on.

Irishpilot: Thank for the info!
Could possibly be the Turkish response to licenses issued under different amendments of JAR-FCL. Still not wholly in the spirit of JAA/EASA in my view, but it's their ballpark...

Cheers,
Redbar1