I’m currently hour building while doing my atpl’s, and would love to take a few trips to France or the Channel Islands but obviously you need a Personal Locator Beacons. I’ve been looking for a while but is proving to be very expensive :ugh: . I’ve found a cheap plb, ACR Mini B 300 121.5 PLB EPIRB. It transmits on both the emergency frequencies but it’s for sailing :{ , I’m not sure of the requirements and if I could use that? Or if anyone knows for some cheap plb due to the current financial climate we are in? Any help would be muchly appreciated, thx :)

I know very little about PLB's, but the only thing I would say is that I would personally avoid buying the cheapest when it comes to life saving equipment! I hate parting with excess cash for items (I am Scottish after all) but I know one thing, if I were unlucky enough to take a swim in the English Channel I would be wishing I had paid for the best!

P.S Edited to add that I'm sure the marine PLB would be adequate, those companies love to mark up the exact same product when marketing the Aviation folks.

On the other hand, for Channel crossings, I would buy the cheapest that made me legal. Some people seem to imagine that a ditching in the channel is made more survivable by a high tech gadget.

As a regular channel crosser, from almost any height above 3,000 feet it would be possible to ditch alongside a boat. The route from Dover - Calais, you'd need to plan your forced ditching point carefully to avoid hitting one!

It's surviving the 15-60 mins in the water it would take for someone to come and pluck you out that is the issue, not an ELT broadcasting your position accurate to the nearest metre.

The little McMurdo GPS PLBs are under £300 now.

They also do a really tiny one which has half the battery duration but fits into any pocket.

Over the Channel, fly at max possible height, and immediately set 7700 if in trouble. That will ring alarm bells on every radar within hundreds of miles.

Just make sure it transmits on 406Mhz to legal for France

Has anyone got experience of actually being "ramp-checked" in France, and asked to produce a suitable device?
Just wondered whether all those little Jodels tucked in dusty corners of hangars throughout France have PLBs on/in them when they commit aviation??
Jez

Well my little Robin has one for sure....but then again, it's a nicer experience being told you can install a cheaper PLB than having to be forced to fork out for a full on built in ELT like my flying friends in Netherlands are forced to.

Vive la France!!

... and your job is done.

Cheap as chips in the US if you have anyone going that way...

Just make sure it transmits on 406Mhz to legal for France

Of more relevance is that if it doesn't transmit on 406 you won't be detected by the SAR satellites; the facility to detect 121.5 was retired at the beginning of this year.

As a regular channel crosser, from almost any height above 3,000 feet it would be possible to ditch alongside a boat. The route from Dover - Calais, you'd need to plan your forced ditching point carefully to avoid hitting one!

Mmmm.......Most of the ships I see in the channel are cargo carrying ones which might, or more likely, might not have a crew member looking out of the window!

For legality in France the PLB must also have a built in GPS interfaced to transmit your location.

From 1st January 2009, all aeroplanes and helicopters shall be equipped with at least one ELT of any type, or failing
that, one PLB with built-in GNSS receiver, that received a COSPAS/SARSAT type approval number, except for series
700 of Cospas-Sarsat numbers identifying the special-use beacons not meeting all the technical requirements and all
the tests specified by Cospas-Sarsat.

Don't you mean the facility to detect 243 MHz (by satellite) was decommissioned? That was the previous satellite frequency. 121.5 MHz continues to be available for emergency voice contact, homing by suitably equipped aircraft and d/f from some groundstations.



Edited to correct my frequency error. IO540 was quite right to correct me in his/her/its post a little way below.

A boating PLB should do the job just as well as an aviation PLB.

Be careful buying a PLB from another country as you will then have to spend money having it recoded for your country. Of course if the price is right, you may well come out ahead if you go that route as I did.

Non-aviation PLBs will first trigger a groound search, but if the GPS position indicates the middle of the Channel I suspect a helicopter will be dispatched.

Satellite monitoring of 243MHz (not 206MHz which never existed for this purpose) stopped Feb 2009.

Satellite monitoring of 121.50 has been ineffective for years, due to spurious emissions.

Very true about having to be careful when buying a 406 beacon from the USA. The Falmouth EPIRB/ELT registry will not register a US-coded beacon (I know). These have to be registered via US NOAA, who seem to accept the reg even if the address is outside the USA, provided that the aircraft is N-reg. I have just been around this block with a 406 ELT bought from the USA which was incorrectly coded despite my specific instructions. I cannot see any way to have such a unit economically re-coded over here.

As ever, there are two parts to the issue.
a) what is a legal requirement
b) what is sensible and what you feel comfortable with.

Surprisingly aircraft used to fly across La Manche before the invention of PLB's and SARSAT. Their lack of equipment was not a cause of plummeting.

Helpfully, the powers that be, in their benificent wisdom, have come out with STANDARDS AND RECOMMENDED PRACTICES (Cue: drum roll and fanfare).

ICAO has decreed "Thou shalt carry an ELT"
The European National Aviation Authorities have helpfully banded together to form the European Aviation Standards Agaency (EASA) in order to bring about commonality in the application of standards within Europe.

As a result your common or garden puddlejumper is exempted from the ICAO requirement in the UK. A PLB with GPS is accepted as an alternative in France, and the Netherlands insist on carriage of an ELT. This provides a model of clarity to the pilot and aircraft owner and it must be a complete mystery to our paternalistic rulemakers that any of their little darlings could possibly fail to grasp it.

ELT's are more robust than PLB's, however the human body is probably less robust than either. If I'm lying dead then an ELT beeping away is of little use to me. Neither is it if it's at the bottom of the sea I'm bobbing about in. (There are currently several in the Air France Airbus at the bottom of the Atlantic). It is no coincidence that SAR crews carry PLB's. If they survive the ditching a PLB is more use than a sunken ELT.

For some reason, America, which looks after at least 90% of world's GA, has mandated a fixed ELT for many years.

Also, I suspect that the regulatory apparatus favours a fixed ELT, because mandating the carriage of a portable item of any kind is very hard to enforce.

It is worth remembering the context of the American ELT requirement. There is an awful lot of 'Great Outdoors' in America, so it is quite easy to come down nowhere near anyone. In addition, ubiquitous mobile phone coverages is only something of the last decade. So the Americans, with a very big GA business, have had a lot of experience needing to look for downed aircraft in the middle of nowhere. In addition, PLBs have only been practically available in the last decade or so and as such would not have been an option to the regulators of 70s (which I think is when the ELT requirement started to be implemented).

Please can I ask the question again................?
"Has ANYONE got any experience of being asked to produce a PLB whilst in France?"
Whilst we are blindly following (in true British fashion) this requirement, have we ever thought how the French will "police" this, indeed which of the (many) French officials are tasked with this resposibility??
I have asked this question on other (recent) threads, and had no replies. Does this mean that NOBODY has been accosted so far??????????
Jez
P.S. Before anyone asks.............my a/c has an ELT fitted (ex Canada) so I'm not condoning risking anything, I'm just curious.

The french police have been recently reported as doing a lot of spot checks, mostly (apparently) documents and presumably they are too dim to be doing equipment checks, but you never know.

Under the VAT treaty they are entitled to turn over any plane other than F-reg or EU-reg over its VAT status, but while at it, they can check anything.

I'd buy one of those handheld 406MHz beacons and done with it. One day it might save your life.....

The Netherlands requirement for a fixed 406 unit is a bit more expensive. One can do it for under £1000, with the Kannad 406 Compact ELT.

I have heard of an incident of a commercial aircraft being checked and not being appropraitely equipped. I believe I have also heard of a private aircraft being fined (but can't put my hands on the details). Unlike IO540, I have always found the French ramp checkers to be well briefed with sample documents and a check list of questions. I have no idea if they ramp check their own, however, they certainly ramp check much more frequently than the UK (which isn't hard to achieve!).

Mmmm.......Most of the ships I see in the channel are cargo carrying ones which might, or more likely, might not have a crew member looking out of the window!

The channel is one of the busiest shipping areas in the world, take it from me (as a ex MN Officer) that without exception there would be the watchkeeper, helmsman and likely also the Master on the bridge. If you look at a maritime chart of the area you will see strict routeing lanes which are very closly monitored by a number of shore radar sites as well as a mandatory VHF comms. watch. So it is highly likely you'll be seen a number of ships transiting the straits or by cross channel traffic.

So what do I do if I want a PLB, to carry flying, in Europe, the UK, the USA, and elsewhere in the world, in aircraft registered in any of those countries!?

Seems like a case of regulation working against safety and common sense - but what's new there?

Buy one in your country of residence and register it with your local SAR organisation - job done.

It is a P(ersonal)LB after all, if you are in an aircraft wreck, an off road wreck, a life raft or just fall off a cliff walking the SAR system 'sees your call and where you are ( if the integrated GNSS system works), the local SAR unit checks your contract details to make sure you are not home or at the pub and then they confirm it is a real signal and the SAR assets local to the signal do their stuff.

It is only if you want to buy a cheaper one from a different country that you have an admin problem.

I have found that a US coded beacon cannot be registered with Falmouth. I have also found that a US coded beacon can be registered with US NOAA even if the address in outside the USA, but apparently (I did not test all the options) only if the aircraft is US registered. So avoid buying beacons from the USA by mail order - unless the vendor knows what he is doing in this area - which most won't because it is not something they have to ever deal with.

I have found that a US coded beacon cannot be registered with Falmouth.Go to the manufacturer's web site to find their authorised service stations. Contact one or more to get quote for recoding PLB for your country. Ship PLB to them.

I bought a PLB from the US over the web, sent it for recoding and came out about $200 ahead.

Now if only one could find a US vendor that could recode before shipping:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Five years after buying your PLB it has to sent to an authorised service center for a new battery. After a few battery renewals, they will no longer do any more as they can no longer guarantee the components will perform up to spec.

If I buy one in the USA, and register it to the address of our second home there, would that be ok? I'd use my mobile phone number from my home country, naturally.

I don't know if NOAA will register a beacon with a US address for a non-N-reg plane.

Can't see why not.

But you will presumably be supplying them with a UK phone number (otherwise the registration is pointless since a false alarm cannot be verified) which is a bit obvious...

This is not for a plane. It's for me, no matter what aircraft I might be in. I regularly fly N-Reg, PH-Reg, and G-Reg. Is the point of a PLB not that it doesnt have to be restricted to one particular aircraft?

An interesting Q. The reg form asks for an aircraft reg #.

Hmm...that's odd.

If it goes off, and is not properly registered, I assume they'll still come and rescue you?

Hmm...that's odd.

If it goes off, and is not properly registered, I assume they'll still come and rescue you?
I suspect not very quickly. The whole point of the system is to reduce unnecessary SAR deployments while allowing more rapid response to real incidents.

A signal from a registered PLB will generate a few phone calls to the registered details. If your spouse says - 'he is not in now he is out flying' or they can't get an answer - SAR scrambles. If they see the beacon isn't registered I suspect it is much more like the old days - where is the alarm?, do we have any reason to believe there is a problem?, lets think about it, should we send someone?, ...

If you are lucky and crash in the Gobi dessert or the North Sea, they should work it out reasonably quickly.

my ideal Beacon:


ELT and PLB 406 combo. The idea being that the PLB be certified independently, and its ELT status is a separate matter.
Resides on quick release powered bracket (waterproof induction of course) & combo in aircraft. Back up battery comes into play on removal from bracket.
G-force ELT activation whilst in bracket.
Audio signal indicates ELT tripped. Useful if activated due to a bad landing or tech fault.
Manual activation in or out of bracket via quick (hard) pull-pin, easy to cancel false alarm by replacing the pin.
External power from aircraft to external contacts on beacon warms up GPS constantly and enables more extensive checking, indefinite battery life.
Bracket mounted near pilots head, not panel, to facilitate lanyard to life vest for example. Beacon pulls away cleanly. No need to remember to bring it when evacuating.
121.5 voice transmission, LED acknowledgement of reception.
Bluetooth earpiece audio reception as option. The assumption is it will be difficult and not strictly necessary to hear, more important to speak.
Bluetooth additional text, could be pre-loaded with flight plan etc from mobile phone.
Bluetooth GPS backup source to phone screen maybe. Permanently on while in flight, I prefer (trust more) a continuously used device. In fact there are many additional functions which could be added on in this way.
Manually inflatable small flotation device, physical add-on or integral, transforms ELT/PLB to EPIRB (to save space and improve transmission under conditions of physical duress)
Possible optional SPOT type functionality. A lot on these features would not add much additional cost at the design stage. Or they could be sold as a modular system.

I have already bought a Fastfind 210

if would be cool to have a powering cradle with all the above with the IMHO added benefir of the GPS in regular use so there is some guarantee it will work when called upon

KTM,

Registering a US address with the NOAA will work perfectly fine.

PLB signals are turned over the national authority who then look up the registration, check the contact list and dispatch services.

If the GPS or triangulation locate the beacon outside the home country's ambit, the alert gets passed on to the local authorities.

Third World countries may not have the same SAR resources, but at the very least your family will know you're in trouble and have a good idea where you are. Hint: Update your contact details on your beacon registration before embarking on a foreign escapade.

If I was about to take a canoe trip on a remote river, I would add the details on my beacon registration and remove them upon my return.

mmflynn: Been a couple of years since I was based in France, but yes, they also do "check their own", i.e. F-reg aircraft. Only ever seen it around the Paris airfields though (Toussus, St Cyr), where the security nervousness is greater.

They're mostly interested in your licence rather than your plane's paperwork from what I saw. Were plain-clothes & very friendly, but rather blissfully unware of aviation protocols though at times....(I've heard stories of them turning up at your port door with the engine still running :ugh:)

There's also the "circuit police" at Toussus, who regularly check - with binoculars" whether A/C are following the strictly defined circuit. I kid you not...

BFA