View Full Version : Sarkozy speaks out against burka.


screwballburling
23rd Jun 2009, 03:41
Good!

Never ever thought I would say this but good on the French!! (I don't believe I wrote that)

Sarkozy has quite rightly stated, the burka is not about religion but a sign of subservience.

Shame no other country has the balls to follow, or will they. Bet the present UK governmental won't.



vapilot2004
23rd Jun 2009, 03:45
I shall order a large plate of Freedom Fries smothered in gravy to celebrate.

Rollingthunder
23rd Jun 2009, 03:59
And curd cheese, viva Quebec, and poutine

Down with quasi religious sillyness, other stuff is ok.

Let women shine through.

CR2
23rd Jun 2009, 04:16
Sarko said that he didn't think it should be part of modern France. A slight difference to The Daily Bullshit thread title...

I think he is right, FWIW. And as a traveller of this world who respects the "do in Rome as the Romans do"... don't even start. I behave impeccably in said countries... guess what... I respect them, they respect me. :ok: It works, folks, believe me. 25 years of African/Arabian travelism.

Consequently, those that visit Eurostan or Borat O'Stan should feckin' behave too :uhoh:

screwballburling
23rd Jun 2009, 04:35
CR2

Point taken.

My take is that it is banned I.E., not to be worn in public in all French territories.

You have informed us you are a world wide traveller. Travelling to a country and out again, is not quite the same as living and working in a country. I have lived and worked amongst "these people" for the best part of 15 years. I am afraid your summing up of this lot is not the same as mine.

Rollingthunder
23rd Jun 2009, 04:49
You don't like your country for whatever reason and move west, do try to fit in and don't drag your misguided mindset in. Want a burka? To hide in? Move back. I'm sure it will be nice and civilized. Just watch out for the grenades.

Captain Stable
23rd Jun 2009, 07:36
Should women who want to wear the burqa be permitted to do so?

Blacksheep
23rd Jun 2009, 07:49
My wife hails from a predominantly Muslim land that is possibly the best example of a true multi-racial society that you can find. She's intimidated by women in the black garb with their faces concealed and once got off a bus to avoid a burka. She says "How do you know that's a woman in there? They could be up to any sort of mischief." She was equally offended by the presence of "hooded women" as she calls them, in the Kuala Lumpur shopping malls.

That's the reaction of an integrated immigrant. The fact is that in our land, hiding your face isn't showing modesty, its taken as strong evidence of guilt and we aren't culturally adapted to accepting it. Taken in reverse, if a western woman was to walk down the street in Kabul wearing the typical uniform of a european teenager - a high cut sleeveless top with tight fitting hipsters and a pierced navel - she'd provoke outrage and be driven off the street or possibly assaulted. They don't accept what offends them and there's no reason why we should accept what offends us in our own land; going about with the face covered is culturally unacceptable and the French president has got it right.

tony draper
23rd Jun 2009, 07:53
They could make em sexier I suppose.:rolleyes:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/WCK_KKK_Ceremonial_Robes_33.jpg

Sprogget
23rd Jun 2009, 07:54
There is a long and deep rooted and legally enshrined tradition of strict secularism in France, going back at least two hundred years. Sarkozy is upholding the values of the nation state, no more, no less. He has absolutely got it right from the French perspective.

Blacksheep
23rd Jun 2009, 07:59
How odd. Those robes appear to be from an Asian chapter of the Klan? The robe in the middle has a distinctly Chinese dragon motif and the one on the right is a shameful way to treat the Singapore flag. :hmm:

Fliegenmong
23rd Jun 2009, 08:17
As we may say down here in Oz whilst referring to Monsiur Sarkozy's comments -

...."'Kin-oath mate!"......:ok:

rdr
23rd Jun 2009, 09:12
Well done Saks, finally someone with balls, besides Obama.

G-ALAN
23rd Jun 2009, 09:15
According to a muslim friend of Iranian origin, many women actually choose to wear the burka. Also it came about originally as a practical garment as the wearers (men and women) were desert folk but has been adopted by some cultures as a religious symbol. My views and opinions on many things usually fall into the huggy fluff category but I will side with the views already expressed on this one.

That pic is very odd. Are the KKK adopting a multicultural policy these days? :hmm:

tony draper
23rd Jun 2009, 09:41
The Sarkozy chap has balls, even if they are a bit close to the ground.
Out of respect one is not going to blame the French for anything for the rest of the week.
:ok:

ZEEBEE
23rd Jun 2009, 10:37
Well done Saks, finally someone with balls, besides Obama.

Also, well done Sarkozy :D, but not much evidence of the same intestinal fortitude from the Obama side, I'm afraid. :=

Z

Sunray Minor
23rd Jun 2009, 10:45
Rather amusing coming from a man who married a former nude model.

What about when the women themselves choose to 'take the veil'? Are they oppressing themselves? Are they oppressing themselves any more than women who wear skyscraper heels or Dita Von Teese-esque corsets? They're all, at least to some extent, manipulations of the female form and image in relation/response to men.

Michael Birbeck
23rd Jun 2009, 10:52
The Sarkozy chap has balls, even if they are a bit close to the ground.



:ok: to tony draper. I actually had to wipe tears of mirth from my eyes when I read this.

I don't dare ask if the KKK outfits are treasured parts of his collection though? :)

Sprogget
23rd Jun 2009, 10:57
What about when the women themselves choose to 'take the veil'?

If they take it for the purposes of emphasising a religious affiliation, they are not welcome in France is the message, the tradition & the law.

In much the same way as I would not walk down a street in Jeddah swigging from a bottle of Jack Daniels throwing my shoes at the locals.:rolleyes:

Worrals in the wilds
23rd Jun 2009, 10:58
That pic is very odd. Are the KKK adopting a multicultural policy these days? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/black-kkk-pink-klan-love-tolerance-demotivational-poster.jpg

Apparently so...:hmm:

Got no problems with women who want to wear headscarves (my grandmother didn't generally go out without a hat) but I find the whole face covering thing divisive and off putting. I know some women prefer to cover their faces in public, but I don't think it's suitable in the west.

However, I don't know that banning face covering is the best way to address the issue, as some older women who prefer not to reveal their faces may simply remain inside, as reported in my local paper a while ago. In this case, a ban on burkas simply restricts these womens' freedoms rather than enhancing them. Personally, here, I would rather see an integration encouragement campaign, rather than laws and regulations.

If I moved to the New Guinea highlands, I don't think I'd be comfortable getting around in a grass skirt, whatever the prevailing morality was. By that rationale, a woman who is used to covering her face may not be comfortable changing in middle age. What disturbs me is younger women, born in the west, who still carry on with this practice.

tony draper
23rd Jun 2009, 11:50
I think the covering up is more to do with the menfolk of the tribe,from my observations human females are hard wired by evolution to display the goods.

That's what the menfolk are afraid of.:E

Wyler
23rd Jun 2009, 12:01
On the other hand, having walked up Northumberland Street in Newcastle last Saturday, there are numerous British females who would do society a great favour by covering themselves from head to foot.

I wonder how the Religious police in Saudi would cope with a Jock in a kilt?

Blacksheep
23rd Jun 2009, 12:13
If I moved to the New Guinea highlands, I don't think I'd be comfortable getting around in a grass skirt...and I think I might be a bit shy of walking out in a shiny new penis gourd, but I guess its something you'd soon get used to.

The point is, we haven't decided to move to the Papuan Highlands as a life enhancing migration. If we did, the locals would, quite rightly, appreciate conformity or at least a gesture in that direction. Grass skirt and tea shirt. Bare chest, shorts and spear. That sort of thing.

When visiting friends and colleagues up the river in Borneo, one generally wore what they wore as everyday gear - shorts, flip-flops and T-shirt - and participated in the general activities. To do so is polite. Bring a chicken. That's good manners too, if you want to fit in; otherwise why bother coming?

BlueWolf
23rd Jun 2009, 12:25
Should women who want to wear the burqa be permitted to do so?

No. In our culture it's a mask, and therefore unacceptable, no matter what religious title you give it.

Anyone who doesn't like that should go and live somewhere which doesn't have the same prevailing social mores.

All this tolerance and promotion of diversity, you know, it's a mental illness, just like anorexia or pacifism, and, just like anorexia and pacifism, it's the people who are suffering from it who don't, and can't, recognise that they're sick.

Worrals in the wilds
23rd Jun 2009, 12:42
Grass skirt and tea shirt.

Fair enough. I could live with that. I do a very nice chicken with herbs and such which I'd be happy to bring along. Any time you get used to wearing a penis gourd, feel free to post in the 'more photos' thread.


On the other hand, having walked up Northumberland Street in Newcastle last Saturday, there are numerous British females who would do society a great favour by covering themselves from head to foot.

Absolutely. Unfortunately there's many western women who would do well to wear more clothes. This is a politically incorrect point of view (probably more so than Sarkozy's opinions) but the happy medium probably lies somewhere between hotpants / midriff top and burkas. Maybe more at the burka end of the spectrum than the hotpants end.

No_Speed_Restriction
23rd Jun 2009, 13:02
I don't understand why everyone is suddenly against the Burka in France and the UK. Europe opened its doors and welcomed those who choose to practice the associated faith with open hands. Gentlemen, live with it as this is a consequence of your own actions; after all, give it another 20 years and the majority of the population will be wearing one whether you like it or not; its a numbers game after all.

Storminnorm
23rd Jun 2009, 13:17
Along a similar line to the wearing of the burqa, hasn't some
English council recently had the NERVE to stop printing all it's
literature in 57 different languages?
The hoped for effect is that the people that DON'T speak English
will learn HOW to PDQ. At least, that's the hope!!!!
Can't see the point myself. They'll just get the kids, or grandkids,
to read it for them.
Still, might save a few quid in translators' fees.

lexxity
23rd Jun 2009, 13:53
Personally I don't like the Niqab, I find it to be decisive and deliberately provocative. I don't like not being able to see someones face*. I wouldn't walk down the street in Riyadh or wherever with a big sign saying I AM A CHRISTIAN stuck on me which is what the niqab is doing.

* Same as I don't like hoodies that are pulled all the way down over the weares face. It is deliberately provocative and is not acceptable. They are both antisocial and threatening.

Storminnorm
23rd Jun 2009, 13:59
I can think of some people that the Niqab would improve.
At least til' they took it off.

frostbite
23rd Jun 2009, 14:31
welcomed those who choose to practice the associated faith with open hands.


Only a small number, mostly for their own means. The majority, as usual, were never consulted.

Load Toad
23rd Jun 2009, 14:35
I do hope he also takes a firm stand against the baseball cap.

Storminnorm
23rd Jun 2009, 14:37
and wheelie bins.

parabellum
23rd Jun 2009, 14:42
I don't understand why everyone is suddenly against the Burka in France and the UK. Europe opened its doors and welcomed those who choose to practice the associated faith with open hands.


The underlying assumption was that they would make the effort to integrate rather than set up ghettos.

Um... lifting...
23rd Jun 2009, 14:50
...and chavs... oh, sorry, those are a UK institution...

FrankLeeSpeakin
23rd Jun 2009, 15:00
"and wheelie bins."
How in God (or nature or noone or nothing if you be agnostic or atheist)'s name does one WEAR a wheelie bin?

Anyway I agree with the post that said what if they WANT to wear a burqua?
I also agree with some who feel it is potentially sinister. Not sure really.
I hope that makes my stance clear.

BTW I am a proud scot - proud enough to condemn the ridiculous kilt, the excruciating bagpipes and the nauseating whisky.

:*

Storminnorm
23rd Jun 2009, 15:40
An empty wheelie bin can provide lodgings of some comfort
and protection from the elements if one has forgotten the
way home.
It's best to use an empty one though. Although there may
also be items of some nourishment in some of them.

Romeo Oscar Golf
23rd Jun 2009, 16:46
BTW I am a proud scot - proud enough to condemn the ridiculous kilt, the excruciating bagpipes and the nauseating whisky.


Odd, if mild outburst, but remember you are not forced to wear it, play it or drink it, unlike the little old lady (or any other woman) who must succumb to the male inspired "religious" pressure which seems to blossom in our muslim ghettos.
Well done the French!!

FrankLeeSpeakin
23rd Jun 2009, 16:59
Twas in response to the poster who wondered how we "jocks" would be received in Saudi Arabia...
Anyway I am opposed to a blanket (sic) ban on the burka. Should be a choice - not an obligation. If some females wear it for fashion or a true sense of "liberation" then fair play to them. But it should be up to the women concerned, not their menfolk.
Religion is rightly frowned upon as a subject on forums precisely because it is a matter of belief rather than proof.
I have as much disdain for those who say "there is no proof of the existance of (a) God" - witness Richard Dawkin's ridiculous railing against theists, as I do for those who firmly believe in (a) God and see those of us who do not believe as "evil".
They will both burn in hell!

Um... lifting...
23rd Jun 2009, 17:15
If some females wear it for fashion or a true sense of "liberation" then fair play to them. But it should be up to the women concerned, not their menfolk.

Sadly, would be impossible to determine the motivation for any given woman wearing the thing, and one suspects Sarko's heard that argument and knows that it can't and won't work.

Blacksheep
24th Jun 2009, 07:57
It is said (though there is no means to verify it) that Osama bin Laden wore a Burkha to move across the border into Pakistan. Seems logical though. As my missus says, "how do you know who or what is in there?" The mind boggles. There is certainly nothing in any of their holy books to justify the wearing of Hijab or Burkha, nor for that matter, the sporting of luxurious beards; both are merely the continuation of pre-Islamic tribal customs.

Wiley
25th Jun 2009, 01:17
I think the covering up is more to do with the menfolkYou got it 101% right with that comment, Drapes. However, in Western countries, not just for the reason some might first suppose - that, like 'back in the old country', their husbands/fathers demand it. (Although there are certainly many cases where that is the case.)

There's another factor. I don't know of too many younger women of the Islamic persuasion in the West who've adopted the burka, but a goodly number have adopted the hijab, and in my opinion, (standing by to be shot down in flames here), quite a few of those have done so so they won't be hassled by a large percentage of the young men of similar religious persuasion also living in the West, who've been taught on their mothers' knee that all Western females are whores etc and can be treated as such without restraint.

Many Muslim young women, by the simple act of wearing the headscraf, make the mute but clear statement to the sons and brothers of their neighbours that they are not 'like that' and therefore should be treated with respect.

The source of 99% of this whole sorry mess can be laid at the feet of Muslim males, all too many of them born in the West, who've been allowed to maintain the attitude that any woman who displays more than her hands and eyes is 'asking for it'.

Um... lifting...
25th Jun 2009, 02:04
Blacksheep... far be it for us to sneer at luxurious (iant?) beards. What if we have a cough? Most countries of more than a century of age were cobbled together by chaps with beards... and what of ZZ Top?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6c/SmithBrothers_04.jpg/180px-SmithBrothers_04.jpg

Pinky the pilot
25th Jun 2009, 06:41
and the nauseating whisky.


Wash your mouth out FrankLeeSpeaking!!:=:D Good thing that Con-Pilot has'nt read that. He'd probably faint from the shock!:eek:

The finest drink on Earth.....a single Malt!:ok:

quant
25th Jun 2009, 07:13
I'm just wondering if anyone of the Islamic religion (aka a Muslim) has posted? From what I have read below I can't see any.

I'm not a Muslim however a close colleague at work is and I asked him about this matter. He said that in Islam whether a man or women chooses to cover it's up to them. Yes in the present status quo in the Arabic Muslim world (and Afghanistan) women are forced to wear the full burka however he pointed out the difference between Muslims of an asian origin (Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Chinese, etc) in that they don't wear the full garments yet they are perfectly acceptable to Islam.

The problem is that from an outsider’s perspective the full Burka looks like a tool of oppression against women. We need to ask ourselves why is it so? Lack of cultural/religious understanding or is it that we want to enforce our values on the rest of the world so we all dress alike? I'm not sure but women who wear the full Burka are the deeply respected in the Islamic faith.

I think people should dress the way their own heart tells them to dress and not have it dictated to by any government. I do agree with 'when in Rome' however when the day comes that an over bearing government tells us what to wear, what to eat, where to sleep is the day our freedoms have been taken from us :sad:
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww352/analystquant/frenchnun.jpg

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww352/analystquant/ThepurityofIslam.jpg

One is a french nun, if i took the cross away from her and the muslim lady was wearing a black head dress would you be able to tell the difference? probably but it's dam close..

Rollingthunder
25th Jun 2009, 07:33
Why are so many people shouting these days?

Uses up bandwidth and my temper. Normal fonts please. Your point will not get across any better with LARGE fonts.

Worrals in the wilds
25th Jun 2009, 09:18
The only problem with that analogy is that a lot of people found nuns disturbing, for similar reasons. Nun outfits are a hangover from the middle ages when all Western women covered their hair and wore neck to floor clothes. Why they remained common until the sixties has always been a mystery to me.

What is disturbing about the burka / niqab? Glad you asked, actually, because I hadn’t really thought about it. I think they are different from almost all other forms of female dress worldwide in that they are designed to make the wearer look as unattractive as possible. Any other ethnic female dress I can think of is usually pretty, and even if modest is designed to make the wearer look nice, although that can be subjective (geishas, lip plates et al:eek:)

Maybe this is what makes us uncomfortable, because no other ethnic wear seems to attract such negative publicity. Women of many cultures routinely wear their ‘own’ clothes in the West (notably Indians and Africans) without much comment. Women are far less likely to adopt ‘dress of the day’ than men and like to wear clothes they are used to. Western women do this too, wearing short shorts in places like India and then wondering why they attract adverse attention. For this reason, I’ve always shied away from criticizing Islamic dress, but a lot of reasonable people in the West genuinely don’t like it, as seen here. I think it is perceived as backward, divisive and ‘uppity’ (for want of a better word) and when the Islamic communities already have a reputation (somewhat unjustified, but only somewhat) for poor integration it serves as a very visual reminder that they’re Different.

Many Islamic women dress very elegantly, complete with headscarfs and still manage to keep their faith and morals intact without walking around inside a sack. Like it or not, the full burka (with or without niqab) appears confronting and frightening to many Westerners, perhaps as threatening as images of bikini clad babes seem to be to the Saudis. Maybe this is the real issue, the ‘my culture versus yours’ that has been niggling between the two groups; the fear that we’re all going to be forced to wear either burkas or hotpants depending on who wins.

Bit long, sorry.

cockney steve
25th Jun 2009, 10:56
I have great difficulty accepting a black, subservient Dalek trundling around 3 paces behind a swarthy, bearded, pyjama-wearing, pillbox-hatted foreigner in the local supermarket.

OK . that's a stereotype.....they're living in a western democracy but insulting us and our conventions......the women are quite clearly chattels and the men's attitude best described as arrogant. There is no warmth, humanity or equality implied or displayed...they are alien to the Western norms, outsiders who expect the majority to bend to their will.

There are plenty of Islamic countries which accept that lifestyle and those practices and beliefs.

The women conform,as others stated, becaus they fear the consequences of embracing Western dress and conduct.

Sarkosy's right.....let them intigrate or emigrate......and , yes , they live in slums by our standards but mains electricity, running water and proper sanitation are luxury compared with the areas many came from....they just take what they can from the evil infidels and send large amounts back to the "homeland"....The sooner we all wake up and enforce a proper "intigrate or leave" policy, the better


Before the fluffists start tanting,- the above is of necessity a simplistic overview of a complex problem.

Andy_S
25th Jun 2009, 11:12
While I find the burka offensive, it's probably no more outrageous than some of the things westerners wear. And at the end of the day I guess it's their right to do so in public.

However, I think any woman who chooses to wear a burka should accept that freedom of choice carries certain consequences. That may mean that they have to accept difficulties and delays in accessing public services (because a woman may not be available to deal with them for example) and more rigorous ID checks. They should also have to accept that it disqualifies them from certain types of employment, particularly those that involve dealing directly with the public; education, health, police etc.

You make your bed, you lie in it.

tony draper
25th Jun 2009, 11:20
Didn't some make the insane demand that they be allowed to have passport photos taken wearing the full Dewsbury Dalek kit? come to think this being the fluffist paradise it is the authorities probably pandered to them and allowed it.
:suspect:

frostbite
25th Jun 2009, 11:50
Nuns intimidating? Too right!

When I had a shop in the 60s, nuns from a local convent used to visit with the begging bowl about twice a month.

We always rapidly gave them something just to get rid of them asap because no customers would enter while they were there.

Worrals in the wilds
25th Jun 2009, 13:25
Mr D, some of the older passports from places like Yemen used to have a picture of the lady concerned wearing full face covering, which made the 'face to passport' check a little irrelevant :ugh:. It was still done though (here, anyway, by a female officer on request) so at least the age and gender could be compared.
AFAIK there are now international standards for passports (no idea who sets them) and they have to have a full facial photograph.

India issues passports with a twenty year validity, and often the glamorous Bollywood style lady in the photo bears little relation to the aged granny who owns it.

Roger Sofarover
25th Jun 2009, 14:56
Mr D
Didn't some make the insane demand that they be allowed to have passport photos taken wearing the full Dewsbury Dalek kit? come to think this being the fluffist paradise it is the authorities probably pandered to them and allowed it.

Not sure about that, but about 4 years ago (maybe 5) a woman in Birmingham won the right to have the photo for her driving licence in full face mask! It was reackoned a girl made a living out of doing other girls driving tests for them in the full burkha, same goes with exams at certain schools.

Storminnorm
25th Jun 2009, 15:00
Didn't one of the London bomber brigade try to escape justice
by trying to flee wearing the full "ninja" kit?
Only problem was he was about 6' 4", and did stand out a little
on the security footage.

WhatsaLizad?
25th Jun 2009, 17:03
Burkha wearing should not be infringed if the Saudis, and the followers of Islam in general, start displaying some equal respect for other religious beliefs in places like Mecca and Medina.

Someone said, "look at the Nun, it's the same thing!"

B.S. Look at how the lady in the Hijab would be treated in the Sistine Chapel, then look how the Nun would be treated by those throwing rocks at the devil during the Haj.

I'll also add that any Mosque planned for construction in the Western World should be delayed until the followers of Islam worldwide stop permitting the religous discrimination in places like S.A.

merlinxx
25th Jun 2009, 17:37
Nuns OOO I like Nuns with black sox & suspenders:E Then I is an apprentice Dirty Old Man, bin an apprentice now for 64 years:{

con-pilot
25th Jun 2009, 17:48
BTW I am a proud scot - proud enough to condemn the ridiculous kilt, the excruciating bagpipes and the nauseating whisky.


I think I'm having a heart attack. A Scotchman called the finest beverage ever created by man, nauseating whisky. :ooh:

Now back to the subject at hand while I recover.

A few years ago in Florida a woman attempted to renew her drivers license while wearing a full Muslim head covering with only an opening for her eyes. The State refused to reissue her license without a photo showing her full face. She sued the State and won, the State appealed the decision and the case went to the Supreme Court which found in favor of the State. The court ruled that as it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution regarding the Freedom of religion, the permission to operate a motor vehicle is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution, but a privilege granted by the State.

Oh, the woman in question is a blond, blue eyed Anglo who had married a Muslim man and had converted. I don't know if she ever was able to renew her license.

Rollingthunder
25th Jun 2009, 18:04
Dumb blondes should be walking

airship
25th Jun 2009, 18:36
quant :ok:

President Sarkozy is one of the most astute and above all, cunningly opportunistic leaders in Europe today. He'd still manage to run rings around Tony Blair (with all his spin-gurus), let alone the likes of Gordon Brown and Angela Merkel...

He successfully conjures up the general image of being "all things to all men".

In reality, "the image" falls far short of the expectations.

We're talking about a President who has repeatedly and successfully shrugged-off accusations of being "too cosy" with some of France's richest industrialists. Does anyone remember when having just won the Presidency, he escaped for a few days holiday aboard a luxury yacht called the Paloma...?

Some have suggested that his allies include some of the most important French media interests. All I can say is that I was extremely disappointed when the only 2 major French operators of TV by ADSL / satellite Canalsat and TPS were allowed to merge (resulting in my loss of BBC Prime) last year. Effectively allowing the remaining entity Canalsat a monopoly. The weird business interests of French defense companies in the media here in France would have most Americans running to the Supreme Court in the USA; imagine if say Boeing owned >30% of all newspapers and other media in the USA...?! Yet, it happens in France, all is normal...

President Sarkozy has a problem with the Burka?! Believe me, it's all just a ploy, he's simply being the opportunist he's always been. He could care less about who wears a burka or whether or not they're forced to or choose to.

I look forward with great anticipation to the day that the French government also approves publication of their elected representatives' expenses and "interests". Sadly, this is very unlikely. But it might have been fun speculating about why so many representatives found it necessary to claim for travel expenses to Austria, Switzerland, Denmark and Monaco quite regularly...? Or why so many mayors have become very rich on the back of the recent house-building boom? Not yet a bust in France, but will eventually get there (when in some parts of France, the 1st buyer category of properties consist of a 30m² apartment and sell for 10x average annual wages for the area). If I was French, I'd probably move to Spain tomorrow, pay a 5% deposit on one of those nice looking flats for sale at 1/2 original price, and then claim unermployment / housing benefit, whilst I looked about for a job with a French car manufacturer with an assembly plant in Spain.

Si, habla Espaniogle. Wan tanna méra...?! :uhoh:

quant
25th Jun 2009, 19:10
the fear that we’re all going to be forced to wear either burkas or hotpants depending on who wins.

Bit long, sorry.Can i ask who is going to force you?

they just take what they can from the evil infidels and send large amounts back to the "homeland"

Oh please, their are plenty of us Brits working abroad in the middle east/europe/asia/ etc sending money back home, we live in a global economy deal with it. :sad:

FrankLeeSpeakin
25th Jun 2009, 20:46
Regards to Pink and Con -
Firstly I assume Con is an American born and bred and hence the confusion between Scots and Scotch. The former being the person from said country and the latter being the nauseating drink from said country. I am defintely a Scotsman and most equally definitely not a Scotchman. I believe I have made it amply clear I hate the stuff! There I said it again!
But, as they don't say in Italy, - chacun a son gout. Now as for Pinky, I shall take up your offer to wash my mouth out - with that bad bottle of red you have just found...
:-)

Now to get back "on thread", I actually did a study of the Koran when I was a student in France and I was struck by just how prescriptive and prohibitive it was about the daily details of life. Quite depressing really. HOWEVER my point remains if you personally as an individual of your own free will under no coercion choose to live by it, fine by me. If others don't equally so. The REAL problem here is this whole BELIEF thing. Many muslims/christians/add-your-own-here actually literally BELIEVE their faith as FACT and so in their eyes see others as evil apostates and sinners in need of a good burning failing conversion. What always puzzles me though is if these poeple do indeed believe in an omnipotent, omniscient God, why would this God need any help in sorting out the good guys from the bad?
We all die and - if you believe - then we all account for OURSELVES before this God. or would I get cradit points and a priority seat in first class on Afterlife Airlines if I could point out how many "infidels" I had bumped off or converted "in His name"...?

Discuss.
>>>lights the blue touch paper and retreats
:ugh:

Worrals in the wilds
25th Jun 2009, 20:51
Fears are not always rational or well founded.

IAC, womens' clothing (and behaviour) has been regulated in the West before now, and not so long ago. Trousers were prohibited in some clubs in this State well into the nineties. Female coppers here in the seventies were required to carry a handbag at all times to look 'ladylike' (and the addition of a half brick created quite a useful weapon, according to a very unladylike friend :}).

con-pilot
25th Jun 2009, 20:56
The former being the person from said country and the latter being the nauseating drink from said country. I am defintely a Scotsman and most equally definitely not a Scotchman. I believe I have made it amply clear I hate the stuff!


:{......................

Matari
25th Jun 2009, 21:42
FrankLee:

Firstly I assume Con is an American born and bred and hence the confusion between Scots and Scotch.

Although now an upstanding Oklahoman, I believe that con-pilot was actually born and raised for a time in the UK. Which is probably why, today, he tends to tipple the tartan tea from time to time. 'hic'

Flash2001
25th Jun 2009, 21:49
FLS

Lt. General S.B. Buckner Jr. USA once when offered Scotch said "Not, madam, in the presence of Bourbon." Says it all I guess.

After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!

BlooMoo
25th Jun 2009, 22:26
if you personally as an individual of your own free will under no coercion choose to live by it, fine by me. If others don't equally so. The REAL problem here is this whole BELIEF thing. Many muslims/christians/add-your-own-here actually literally BELIEVE their faith as FACT and so in their eyes see others as evil

Religious faith vs Coercion. What's the difference? (I don't just mean medievil 'faiths' where if you don't pretend openly and continuously that you believe in them then the 'priesthood' will kill you)

Mr Grimsdale
26th Jun 2009, 07:36
Meanwhile...
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Muslims split on Taliban fight (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8119273.stm)

UK Muslims split on Taliban fight


A survey of British Muslim opinion for the BBC has revealed significant divisions over the conflict with the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Three-quarters of those surveyed said it was wrong for the West to intervene militarily in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
At the same time, a similar number (78%) said they opposed Taliban attacks against Nato soldiers in Afghanistan.
Nine out of 10 of those surveyed said that they opposed Taliban fighters capturing territory in Pakistan.
ICM surveyed 500 Muslims in the UK over 16 years old between 15 and 20 June.
In the survey, 66% of respondents said they supported the authorities in their fight against al-Qaeda. Some 16% said they did not support the fight while 18% said they either did not know or had no opinion.
The survey found that 76% said it was wrong for the US and UK to militarily intervene in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some 15% said it would be right while almost one in 10 said they did not know.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45971000/gif/_45971516_af_pak_poll1_466.gif
When asked what they thought about British-born Muslim soldiers serving in the two countries, just over half said it would be wrong but almost a third said it would be right.
Some 11% said it was legitimate for guerrilla fighters to target British or Nato forces in Afghanistan while 78% were opposed to such attacks.
However, some 95% said it was wrong for the Taliban to use suicide bombers in Pakistan and just 2% said it was right. A similar number opposed the Taliban seeking to capture territory in Pakistan or attacking state targets.
However, when asked what the Pakistani authorities should do, the respondents were more divided. Only 67% said the Pakistani army should take action against the Taliban - and almost a quarter said it would be wrong.
Asked if they understood the reasons why the UK and US would be militarily involved in Afghanistan or Pakistan, the respondents were again split.
A quarter said they fully understood the reasons, but 29% said they did not understand at all; 43% said they only partially understood.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45971000/gif/_45971515_af_pak_poll2_466.gif
Almost seven out of 10 of those questioned said they did not think the British government was doing enough to help ordinary people in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Turning to attitudes towards security within the UK, eight out of 10 respondents said they would alert the police if they suspected a Muslim was involved in al-Qaeda-inspired terrorism. One in 10 said they would not contact the police.
Almost a third of respondents said they thought the police, government and British society were anti-Muslim. A majority of respondents said they did not think that was the case.

quant
27th Jun 2009, 06:01
Mr Grimsdale i fail to see the link between your post and the thread title. :sad: