Going for my ppl

[may_day]

As an RAA pilot I am doing my PPL, my instructor says I cannot do my PPL in an RAA registered aircraft. In the regulations (as far as I can see), it states
The 40 hours must be recognised flight time that was flown in a
registered aeroplane, recognised aeroplane, helicopter, gyroplane,
glider, power-assisted sailplane or group A ultralight.
Can anyone show me in the regulations why I can't do my PPL training in an RAA registered aircraft that can be registered VH if I wish to, to do PPL training and my PPL flight test? It also stats when i am going for my flight test

A private pilot (aeroplane) licence flight test must be conducted only
by an approved testing officer or a CASA flying operations inspector,
in an aeroplane:
(a) for which the person attempting the test holds an aircraft
endorsement; and
(b) that is fitted with:
(i) fully functioning dual controls; and
(ii) an electronic system for communication between the person
conducting the test and the person attempting the test that is
serviceable when the test begins; and
(iii) dual control brakes

Otherthan what it states above, it does not state whether the aircraft should be VH or RAA registered.

I am just trying to further my educational experience in flying and am trying to save some coin at the same time, I can hire a J230 for about $110 an hour compared to a Cessna 172 for about $200 plus an hour.

Regards

Mayday

[bentleg]

my instructor says I cannot do my PPL in an RAA registered aircraft

I think the issue here is that CASA does not consider a RAA registered aircraft as meeting CASA registration requirements. Whether it is capable of CASA (VH) registration is another issue. Most of the CASA licensing forms have "VH- " preprinted in the registration panel, where the ATO signs off, indicating their attitude.

If you want to fight CASA over their interpretation of the regulations, I wish you luck.....

[may_day]

My understanding in all industries is that we have act and the regulations are written from the act. It is not a case of whether I would want to fight anyone or not, it's whether it is doing what the law requires me to do. Heresay is not the rules, even in our BAK text book it quotes a recognised aircraft etc. As you said above, most application forms have prep-pinted VH registration on their forms, however that does not mean that that is the regulation, that could easily be crossed out and an RAA registration no could be put on there and I cannot see what they can do to prevent me from doing my flight test in an RAA recognised aircraft under the current act or regulations.

Regards

Mayday

[VH-XXX]

Hi Mayday, this topic usually causes much (sometimes uneducated) debate!

PM me if you have trouble trolling though it.

Your RA-Aus hours DO in fact count towards your PPL certificate, 100%, particularly in your case with the J230 example being a Group A 3-axis ultralight.

The problem usually lies with the flying school claiming that you can't use RA hours towards GA when you clearly can.

In theory, if you have met the criteria for the issue of a PPL over and above those requirements for the issue of the RA-Aus certificate, eg, 2 hours of instrument flying, the required Nav flights etc and are ticked off as competent by your GA CFI instructor, then he / she can legally put you forward for the PPL test.

Do you have your RA-Aus cross country endorsement?

It is my understanding that you can do the flight test in a RA-Aus aircraft if the instructor is a GA ATO with appropriate RA-Aus endorsement.

Awaiting furhter advice on whether this is ok from the others.

Even if you CAN'T do your PPL test in an RA-Aus aircraft you certainly can do 99% of the flying in RA-Aus then transfer over for the flight test. If that is the case and you can find a GA registered J230 you will be laughing.

[may_day]

Thank you VH, so it still does not answer where it states in the regulation of the question I put above, as I said, it's not about breaking any laws or making my own regulaitons up, it's basically about saving massive dollars, so do I just shut-up and pay out or look for another school? Does anyone know of any schools around Brisbane that are more interrested in progressing a pilots interrest, rather than emptying his wallet.

Regards

Mayday

[VH-XXX]

Don't miss the point of my post. It DOESN'T state that you can't do it in an RA-Aus aircraft......

Historically you couldn't do GA training in an RA-Aus aircraft because they didn't meet the requirements such as the presence of instruments etc for the instrument and nav-aid work, but nowdays things have changed rapidly and often RA aircraft such as the J230 D are sometimes better equipped than their GA counterparts.

Like I said the problem comes from flying schools that are living in the dark ages.

Remember though when it's all said and done you will need a GA CFI / ATO that is dual endorsed for RA and GA to actually complete the process.

[may_day]

So basically, the problem does not necessarily lie with the regulators but with the information you get from the flying schools. So, are the flying schools out there feeling threatened or are they misinterperting the regulations?

If either is the case, then a number of GA schools are still living in yesteryear.

My understanding of what I see out there in the flying world, there would be a great business opportunity bringing RAA licenced pilots across to GA licenced pilots.



Regards

Mayday

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

CASA probably figure that if you want a PPL, you may want to fly a real aeroplane instead of kiddie-toys! :E

Dr :8

[may_day]

no, it is doing what is right an saveing

and haveing choices

onemore I hear what you are saying
what I am saying is, is what you are saying is it Heresay or regulation,
Q pic is the testing officer or is it the pic going for his test in A a/c that he is certify to fly whether you are flying a VH or RAA A/C

Regards

Mayday

[Ultralights]

all RAAus hrs count for PPL, CPL AND ATPL! up to 750 hrs!

[may_day]

no, it is doing what is right an saveing

and haveing choices

onemore I hear what you are saying
what I am saying is, is what you are saying is it Heresay or regulation,
Q pic is the testing officer or is it the pic going for his test in A a/c that he is certify to fly whether you are flying a VH or RAA A/C

Regards

Mayday

[may_day]

onemore & VH-XXX so what I should do is stop flying, finsh my GFPT & my PPL theory do my test & go and do my flight test in a VH A/C with a ATO in A/C that I have flown the most Hr

Or a ATO with a RAA lic and do my flight test in a J230 RAA reg

the same with my flight traning a instructor with a RAA lic

I must say comeing from a toy to flying a 172, the heavier & bigger plain is a lot easier plane to fly. ForkTailedDrKiller now I know why you don't fly kiddie-toys THERE TO HARD FOR YOU TO HANDLE:D

Regards

Mayday

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I must say comeing from a toy to flying a 172, the heavier & bigger plain is a lot easier plane to fly. ForkTailedDrKiller now I know why you don't fly kiddie-toys THERE TO HARD FOR YOU TO HANDLE:D

May_day, I was going to go fishing tomorrow but not sure I will bother now. Its unlikely that the Barra will bite as well as the "fish" in here! :E

Dr :8

[j3pipercub]

You're right MayDay, a J170 is muuuuucccch more difficult to fly than a C208.

Ttttttttoooooooooooooooooolllllllll

j3

[VH-XXX]

Sounds like you have worked it out Mayday and you are good to go.

I'm glad we could be of assistance.

Best off checking with your CFI, the one that will be recommending you to the ATO to commence the flight test for the issue of the PPL.