CabAir Integrated Sept 09. Thoughts please!

[ryan01]

Hi Everyone.

I have ben planning on undertaking an Integrated course for some time now, and as I know many pilots who have been through the CabAir school and highly reccomend their organisation, I decided to apply there.
I attended an assessment day last week at Cranfield, and was very pleased to pass. However, in reality, "s**t just got real!"

Although I'm very keen to start on this path to a new career, I am under no illusion that for pilots and the aviation industry as a whole, times are very hard.

I keep telling myself that entering training now will allow me to come out into an industry that will be picking back up and airlines will be fighting for my services. Although I dont believe this entirely, the optimist in me believes there may be some truth in it. I would like to think that all the recently graduated pilots and those currently unemployed will have found jobs in the 18 months it takes me to qualify. Surely they cant all sit around waiting for jobs in the UK when mortgages, bills, loans etc need paying, even if it means looking to places such as the middle-east for work. Is there any sense in this or am I destined to dive into an ever filling holding pool of pilots?

Am I completely insane to think that I could qualify as a pilot just as the air travel market begins to grow again?

Obviously, I want this. However I dont want a qualification that I cant use for months (even years) when loans will need repaying. Like many others, I'm relying on substantial parental help to supplement my training, and dont want their equity release to be a huge burden for them too.

Does anyone else share my rose tinted view of the job opportunities in the next 2 years, or is the industry a lost cause for the forseeable future?

Look forward to your perspective. :confused:

[SpreadEagle]

I just left CabAir and am struggling to find even bar work.

You have to think "do I feel lucky?"

I have many friends who finished a whole year before I did. If a job interview happened tomorrow, it would make no difference that they have been waiting patiently for a year. In fact it would go against them that I am current and they are not, all else being equal. You want to time it, so you finish a month or two before the airlines go on recruitment drives to give you a bit of time to brush up on all your studies before applying. The problem is no one knows when they will do that, not even them.

Should you do it?

You shouldn't take this gamble with other people's money if you can't afford to lose it. There are no promises, no rules and right now, no jobs.

But to quote Ab Lincoln
"You can have anything you want - if you want it badly enough. You can be anything you want to be, do anything you set out to accomplish if you hold to that desire with singleness of purpose.”

[UAV689]

Part of being a pilot is about making balanced and informed decisions.

To go integrated in todays climate is not a good move.

not sure of their fees but i imagine going to be in the region of 70k+? thats a hell of a debt to take on and put pressure on your folks - personally I couldnt hold my head high borrowing that much money or putting my parents home on the line.

Do the maths - if you get a loan I imagine that you could be talking about £1000+ per month in repayments, so you get a job with a small regional, you have pay £1000 in loans, £500 rent, £100 car, £100 food etc all this is less than what you will earn each month.

By all means train, do it whilst working, go modular and pay for it yourself the honest way, no risk to anyone else but you. Then you can hold your head up high.

There is no rush to train currently, what are you going to do with newly minted IR that expires 12 months later? pay another 1k to renew it? bit of a waste dont you think?

Can you live with yourself if your parents get booted out their own home, or you unwilliness to pay for it yourself forces them to work longer when they could be taking it slow?

I dont want to put anyone off training, or go over int V mod debate again, but stop thinking with your heart and take a step back and be realistic. Go Modular, save 30k, do it debt free. Same license, same job, same pay in the end but without the repayment burdens which will ultimately allow you to enjoy yourself more.

Good Luck

[Ste88]

It's very hard to someone who dreams to become a pilot dont think with the hearth....
The question is: does will grow the market of pilot?Or If yes...When?15 years, 4, 10 ?




Cheers!

[SweetChariotXV]

If you are intent on starting your training I would seriously look at the Modular route over the integrated. You can tailor your modular training to work like integrated but less risk.

You can still conduct course full time, but just for example you finish atpl ground school and exams and CPL, but market has no jobs so you can then hold off on IR.

Or you decide when you reach CPL stage, FI is more for you, so you don't do the IR but do flight instructor rating instead.

Another thing is you may go to Cabair or any FTO for that matter, and realise they just aren't for you, for whatever reason. If you tied into integrated, it becomes very difficult to go elswhere. Modular you don't have that problem as such.

I hope this doesn't turn into Mod vs Int debate, but just my opinion.

Keep options open, not close them - especially in current climate. As I always say, forget the glossy brochures, great sales pitch etc... Think and research carefully, and do what is best for you!

Just a thought.

[Artie Fufkin]

entering training now will allow me to come out into an industry that will be picking back up and airlines will be fighting for my servicesIf that time were now it would be one hell of a solid plan. Last time the job market took a dive it stayed down for several years, and the upswing was long predicted before it actually arrived.

I was half way through groundschool when BA and Virgin threw open their doors for recruitment. They were the ones who started the avalanche of jobs that followed. They took experienced pilots who resigning their old jobs created the positions that were where the 250 hour pilot got a look in. Add to that the "mopping up" of all the out of work guys with experience, I'd say it was a year or so after the BA / Virgin adverts went out before wannabe pilots were getting jobs in large numbers.

If its the same this time round, the ideal time to start training would be just as BA & Virgin start recruiting again. As to when that'll be...

[betpump5]

Sorry can't stop

But visit this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/378016-family-member-advice.html

Without doubt this is the wannabe thread of the 21st Century, with professional pilots who, due to the excellent way the question was asked, gave up a considerable amount of time to post really long replies.

In terms of your specific questions, it is obvious to me that you just want us to tell you that yes, you will find a job. Yes 70K is a worthwhile investment. Yes in 18 months time the aviation world will be fine. And yes, you'll marry a a hostess from the Virgin Ad.

The sad truth is that even though we can't be sure of anything, the general consensus is that whilst recruitment of out-of-work experienced pilots will begin in perhaps 2-3 years time, it will be at least 5 years until the mopping up has left enough space for 250hr cadets - of which there will be tens of thousands globally.

[benish]

Not really specifically relevant, but the amount of people been advised to turn away from schools at the present time is going to put certain schools out of business, so when those that were advised to stay clear come back in 2 years time, where will they train?

Ever considered how an instructor relying on students taking a gamble, for him to pay his way in life, would feel reading these threads!

Just a thought.

[betpump5]

Benish,

you are correct.

However, if some wannabe comes here asking for advice, should we lie? Should we say yes the market will be great in 14 months time, you will get a job, so get that 70K loan right now-you will pay it back in no time? :rolleyes:

So yes you are correct. Your reply is completely irrelevant to the post AND irrelevant to the whole concept of this wannabe forum.

[Big_Mach]

Ryan - yes you are insane to think that! There is very little movement in the job market at the moment. Each month the integrated schools are churning out scores of low-houred pilots, then there are all the modular guys and not forgetting fully qualified XL, Zoom, Virgin, homesick ex-pat etc pilots. Making an assumption that you will hit the market at the correct time and your CV will be at the top of the pile could be a very costly mistake, especially for your parents house.
Go slow for the time being. Wait until there is at least a hint of profitabilty and stability in the aviation before you think about training.

Gaz - you do realise that modular doesn't have to be as piecemeal as once per Sunday? You can do modular in exactly the same format as integrated - i.e. a flight each day and crack on through the syllabus. In effect an integrated course at modular prices!

I would suggest this is the best way to do it in your circumstances. Keep the job and use the money you are getting in. Not knowing how far you've got with flying, but assuming no-where, the PPL is 45 hours. Take two or three weeks leave (in the summer = good weather) and it's done.
You've then got your ATPL groundschool to study for in your leisure (whilst working) over a period of 6-12 months (it will take this amount of time even doing it integrated) and keep your eye in with the occasional hour building flight.
Next spring if things are looking better, another block of leave to finish off the hour building then the CPL. The IR will take between 6-8 weeks - probably too much for leave, but possibly some unpaid time off? Then an MCC, a type-rating...

Also, I'm not doubting your quotes but £400/m seems a bit low for repayments. How much have you budgeted for? Even if you go modular you are looking in the region of £40,000; integrated just under double that. Then there's the unfortunate necessary evil of a type-rating to consider (another £20-30k). Working back from your figures - it looks like you're wanting to borrow £20kish

[Tyneradar]

As a student just finishing my Integrated course I know Cabair very well now.

This post to me looks like something the management have carefully posted.

If this is genuine and you need to gauge the market ask Cabair the following:-

1. How many students have passed through Cabair Integrated in the last 18 months

2. How many students excluding self sponsored type ratings have obtained pilot jobs in the last 18 Months

Do the math’s and save your money, oh and if you are clever start reading the FT instead of aviation books. Watch the trends then make an intelligent decision based on the economy.

[skyhighbird]

What email are you talking about?