Tips needed for 737-400 sim training.

[Capt.morris]

Hi all,

I have around 5000 hrs. total of which 2000 hrs. as command on 20 ton twin turbo prop. The problem is that I've never been on simulator training let alone 737-400. All the tips and comments would be very much appreciated. Thank you guys.

[Obie]

Just tell the instructor you're a newbie on heavy jets, and he will take care of you! Your experience to date tells me that the conversion should go smoothly for you. Why not keep us posted? :ok:

Obie

[KAG]

I had less hours than you when I started my sim training, and my experience was on a turboprop less than 12500Lbs, and I didnt find the training that difficult. I am sure you will be fine.
For the landing the call: 50', 40', 30', 20', 10' is helpful, take the habit to flare depending on the altitude call if you previous airplane you flew is smaller.

The engine failure requires quite a lot of rudder compared to the smaller aircraft I flew, and if you have an engine failure at V1 rotate, take 1 second or 2 to set your rudder by looking the runway centerline, instead of rotating immediately and losing the runway heading.

Anyway with one engine you acceleration rate is quite low, you will not really go far above rotate speed in one, two or three seconds. You instructor won' t even notice it, and you will make safer departure. That is a tip, and just a tip, nothing written in the boeing manual and documents. If not sure just follow the Boeing procedure.

[Day_Dreamer]

Look into the QRH or Operations manual for the Flight with unreliable airspeed section take an average weight say 50 tonnes and learn the pitch and power settings.
Use these for a basic reference, and on single engine add about 12% N1.
She bites back if your below bug for your configuration especially on one engine.
Otherwise relax and let your instructor know your experience levels and concerns.

[Stan Woolley]

The engine failure requires quite a lot of rudder compared to the smaller aircraft I flew, and if you have an engine failure at V1 rotate, take 1 second or 2 to set your rudder by looking the runway centerline, instead of rotating immediately and losing the runway heading.


Wise words.

[Obie]

We're getting ahead of ourselves here, Fellas!
Don't confuse the issue.
Unless you've had training experience, don't try and tell this bloke what he should or shouldn't do!
His instructor, probably far more qualified than you or I, will show him the way to do it!
If I were you M, I wouldn't seek any more advise on this website!
Just go and do it, and take notice of your Sim Instructor, and learn from him!

[KAG]

Dear Obie,
Capt Morris. is a large turbo prop captain according to his post, and he knows what he is looking for, tips.
I am sure he is already aware he will have an instructor and a training plan. I am sure he already got one or several sim training in his life, but still ask for few tips.
Lets share yours, and don' t be afraid to confuse him, he is a grown man, he will know what is useful to him or not.
Every body knows that first comes the instructor advice and training, along with the Boeing procedure. However it is always interesting to hear about different point of view and experience.

[Capt.morris]

Thank you all for replying my request. I really appreciate it . Wish me luck guys. Cheers...

[A and C]

If it's the F27 you have been flying you are in for a plesant surprize.

[Capt.morris]

A & C,

It's exactly the type I'm flying right now. Got 4000 hrs. on 27 and 600 hrs. as F/O on 28. FMC would be a great challenge to deal with, I suppose. Any advice?

[KAG]

Try to get a CBT (you will have one for your training anyway) in advance to practice and understand the FMC.
Do you know those websites? They are quite famous, it is a good idea to study the systems in advance, so that you can really understand the ground course you ll get:

On this website the schematic that you can download and print are simply awsome:
www.B737MRG.net - Boeing 737 Management Reference Guide (http://www.b737mrg.net/downloads.html)

Here is a system quizz:
The Boeing 737 Technical Site (http://www.b737.org.uk/)

[Sciolistes]

Not sure about other types as the 737 is my first multi-crew type, but the QRH requires really close attention to get a proper understanding. There is a lot of meaning in the specific choice of words, especially the condition statements. I reckon you'll get a lot more than most out of the sim training if you go for a verbatim memorisation of the recalls (conditions, objectives and all) and really armchair fly those QRH maneuverers to death :)

[A and C]

Both the above sites are good reading and try to get hold of the 737 cockpit panel notes by Bill Bulfer.

When you get into the sim and they give you the V1 cut don't push the rudder too hard, unlike the F27 it won't require large amounts of effort on the rudder or large amounts of aleron to control the yaw.

Without doubt the F27 is the worst turbine aircraft I have ever hand flown, the 737 is not the best but it is very good (in case you are wondering the IMO the L188 Electra is the best turbine aircraft I have ever flown)

[Capt.morris]

thank you all for sharing your views and websites as well. I'll look into the sites and keep you guys posted. thanks for saving my life.

[Facelookbovvered]

On the 737 the rudder is all down to you, ignore the slip ball (boeing don't even back light it!!) aim to keep the wings level and maintain track using the rudder which is very powefull, on the centre pannel NAV section there is a button marked way points, select it and keep the track made good line on the EHSI screen over the extended centre line. If tracking the centre line or approach track and you find the aileron control is displaced left or right then more or less rudder is needed,(this is with the wings level) so if the left engine is out and the control yoke is pointed at your left knee you have too much right rudder in, if its pointed at your right knee you need more right rudder, if you trim the rudder load out (your legs will ache soon if you don't!!) then you'll need to run the rudder trim for up to 10 sec for an EFATO

Wise word indeed about the rotation rate,the aircraft will feel heavy at rotate because you have lost half of the thrust/pitch up couple, so keep you eyes out until the runway disapears under the glareshield and track the centre line with rudder and hold it and lock your heels keeping both feet on the rudder pedals, tail strike is a risk on the 400 so don't snatch rotate!!

If you have the F/D available for the pitch/roll guidence(you should) follow it very carefully this will keep you on the correct speed and with + rate of climb, however on most (but not all 737's) the roll guidence is wings level only (some default into heading mode) therefore if you just follow the F/D pitch and roll guidence you could be 30+ degree of the centre line following an EFATO and think you doing OK!! you must repeat must follow your track made good line on the bottom telly

One last thing make sure that following an EFATO that you disconnect the auto throttle, other wise as soon as you level off the A/t system will reduce thrust to your target speed and all your good work on triming the rudder will then become an exercise in recovery from unusual attitudes!!!

enjoy

[Callsign Kilo]

To be honest, I would go right back to basics on this one. All great advice about V1 cuts and the EFATO scenarios, however lets walk before you run if you catch my drift.

One of the first things, in my own opinion, that you will notice and I'm sure you are aware of is the 'pitch-power couple.' The underslung engines on the 737 ensures the thrust line sits below the CG. As the aircraft rotates around the CG any application of power will deliver a pitch up tendency and any removal of power will cause a pitch down tendency. This is especially noticeable in something like a go-around, however as I suggest it is apparent with all power changes. Once you get control of this concept, the 737 is just like any aeroplane really. 'Power-Attitude-Trim'. Just like when flying that 152 or PA28 many moons ago!

Power/pitch settings are another. As Im sure you know it is power for speed and pitch for ROC/ROD. I fly the NG so the two seperate ballpark figures that I tend to apply are for two different landing flap settings. F30 is around 55-56% N1 and 2 to 2.5 degrees nose up pitch. F40 is between 60-62% N1 and 0 to 1 degree of pitch. This is based on a 60,000kg landing weight on a fairly standard day with an average headwind. Level flight, I always recall '6 and 6' (60% N1 and +6 degrees pitch) and work from there. Obviously the FD's (if engaged) will assist with pitch commands.

Above all enjoy, and goodluck. She's a nice bird!

[Capt.morris]

Appreciate all your replies. All tips and comments are welcome. Keep me posted guys. thanks.

[Capt Chambo]

The above tips are all good, so may I add:-

As you are going to end up with a "lot" of engine inoperative landings, either memorise the correct page for the "one engine inoperative landing checklist" or if you are allowed write the page reference it in your QRH do so.

OEI landings with flap 15. You want to try to delay gear down and flap 15 so that they happen as you capture the G/S. Get the gear and flap too early and you need a lot of power to maintain level flight. Once on the glideslope, there is not much drag from flap 15, so you can find yourself needing large power adjustments, which will have you rocking and rolling as you sort out the yaw, and the power pitch couple!