Republic of Ireland and UK Common Travel Area

[Skipness One Echo]

I have numerous opinions on this one. My other half is American and to remain in the UK is sending the old passport off to update the visa, due back in 3-6 weeks. However having been asked to a charity event in the Republic of Ireland, I claimed that all you needed to travel was the driving licence to board the Ryanair flight....

UK Border don't see your passport coming back from the Republic but I recall the Garda checking passports on the way into Eire.

So my question is : Is he OK to get off a UK flight into the Republic with only a driving licence as ID?

Ta.

PS I have googled but I just want to hear from anyone who has or hasn't as it were.

[Munnyspinner]

Skippy,

All you need is here. Common Travel Area (CTA) (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/commontravelarea)

I would imagine you are familiar with this too.

Common Travel Area
15. The United Kingdom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland collectively form a common travel area. A person who has been examined for the purpose of immigration control at the point at which he entered the area does not normally require leave to enter any other part of it. However certain persons subject to the Immigration (Control of Entry through the Republic of Ireland) Order 1972 (as amended) who enter the United Kingdom through the Republic of Ireland do require leave to enter. This includes:

(i) those who merely passed through the Republic of Ireland;

(ii) persons requiring visas;

(iii) persons who entered the Republic of Ireland unlawfully;

(iv) persons who are subject to directions given by the Secretary of State for their exclusion from the United Kingdom on the ground that their exclusion is conducive to the public good;

(v) persons who entered the Republic from the United Kingdom and Islands after entering there unlawfully or overstaying their leave.

FR and most pax will only require photo ID.

[Skipness One Echo]

Thanks !

It seems the situation is fluid.
With Ryanair I need a passport as the driving licence option is being withdrawn.
Aer Lingus allows me to use my driving licence but only for citizens of the UK and Ireland.

As other half is US visa holder, it's a no go it seems.

Aer Lingus - Passport & Visa Information (http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Services/passports_visa.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0193035770.1244848017@@@ @&BV_EngineID=cccfadehhlhhdldcefecfigdffgdfkl.0&P_OID=-8076&Category=3#irluk)

Ryanair - FAQS : What travel documentation do I need to travel on Ryanair flights? (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=pid&quest=photoid)

Thanks for the PMs and replies.

[Munnyspinner]

Actually,

you should check re the Visa holder. If they entered the UK through the usual channels then they should be OK for RoI and UK CTA. The reasoning being that travel to/from ROI via NI ( part of UK) is not controlled. So if you flew FR/EZY/BA to Belfast ( City or International) you could take a train/Bus/car to RoI without challenge.

It is worth checking with Immigration. I would ask, if the Visa is valid for UK would that satisfy CTA requirements?

I came across this which may also be useful.
Department of Foreign Affairs - Who needs a Visa? (http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/home/index.aspx?id=8777)

It says that US citizens do not need a visa but do require a passport. (technically so do EU passport holders from UK as we are non Shengen)

[Globaliser]

UK Border don't see your passport coming back from the Republic but I recall the Garda checking passports on the way into Eire.

So my question is : Is he OK to get off a UK flight into the Republic with only a driving licence as ID?From my experience of flying to the Republic with a British/South African dual national, the Republic will not (easily) let you in with a driving licence that does not itself indicate that you are a British or Irish citizen (ie born in the UK or the Republic). My understanding is that the Irish are now examining all non-British non-Irish air passengers as if the CTA didn't exist.

As you say, it's no an issue on the way back as the UK does not normally examine anyone arriving by air from the Republic.

Of course, the airlines may have their own requirements.

And, of course, it is not difficult to get into the Republic over the land border without being checked at all.

[eastern wiseguy]

And, of course, it is not difficult to get into the Republic over the land border without being checked at all.


There is NO check at all....ever......(except when there was the foot and mouth outbreak...but even then they were totally unconcerned with nationality).

[WHBM]

My understanding is that the Irish are now examining all non-British non-Irish air passengers as if the CTA didn't exist.

It's been like this at Irish airports for a couple of years. The Irish just decided to start looking at passports, whereas in the opposite direction arrivals from Ireland into the UK still adhere to the CTA agreement.

As I understand it, it was just a convenience of the Dublin Airport Authority to put all arrivals from everywhere in one place instead of dividing them as they used to do, and it spread from there.

Of course under any reasonable government the UK Foreign Office would have gripped this straight away, and brought it back to the requirements of the agreement between the UK and Ireland. But the UK Foreign Office, under its current Maestro David Miliband and his predecessors, have never cared for things as boring as convenience of travellers from the UK, there aren't a lot of champagne receptions at embassies or media opportunities for the Minister to be got out of that, so they aren't interested.

If you want to go to Dublin for this event, fly to Belfast and rent a car. Takes less than 2 hours to drive from Belfast International to Dublin nowadays. You can't even tell where the border is (no signs) unless you know the relevant roadmarking standards (side of the road has white lines un the UK, yellow lines in Ireland). The CTA still applies universally to road journeys across the border.

[JayPee28bpr]

The CTA only applies to UK and Irish citizens. Everyone else has always been required to identify themselves to Irish immigration even if arriving from the UK. It's all academic anyway now for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as noted, Ryanair only accepts passports as photo ID (or State ID cards, not DLs). Secondly, all passports now get checked at Dublin Airport, as there is no segregation of UK/Irish domestic and other incoming flights.

It is also worth noting that the UK is implementing an Advance Passenger Information system (in 2010 I think), whereby anyone flying into the UK will have to pre-supply basic info such as passport number, DoB etc (the same as the US, Spain etc). This will apply to entrants from Ireland as well as everyone else meaning, effectively, the end of the CTA.

[CarbHeatIn]

there is no segregation of UK/Irish domestic and other incoming flights.

Not 100% correct.

Aer Arann has an exit lane (it doubles as an airport staff exit) by-passing immigration/security, exclusive to its domestic arrivals.

Also, there's nothing to stop a passenger flying UK-DUB-Irish Regional without being checked. Avail of online check-in for both flights, then there's no need to leave the A pier on arrival into DUB.

[Skipness One Echo]

No gaurantee you land on the As. My Aer Lingus LHR-DUB last week landed on C39 but departed from 11L on the As.....

[racedo]

There is NO check at all....ever......(except when there was the foot and mouth outbreak...but even then they were totally unconcerned with nationality).

Sorry but that is false information as being tied up to some tourist travel boards will show.

Irish Immigration know this is a method being used to subvent immigration controls and do check trains and buses occasionally and have been known to stop and check cars. Majority of time you are ok BUT doesn't help if you are the exception.

Taking a copy of the passport certified as being a true copy and talk to the Irish Embassy / Consulate explaining the position, yes it may mean that you get stopped at Dublin Airport BUT if you have correspondence that shows the position from the consulate then at least they can refer to that.

I don't believe there is that much of an issue with Illegal US immigrants going into Ireland.

[eastern wiseguy]

Racedo....you are simply WRONG. I live on this island.I travel on a regular basis to and from Dublin via rail and/or motorway. There is NO check. There used to be a check when the customs got on the train at Dundalk but that hasn't happened for years. The border is defined ONLY by the road signs changing to KILOMETRES and the petrol prices dropping/climbing.

[WHBM]

The various political factions in Northern Ireland will not accept any border controls. One side will not accept them between The North and the UK mainland, the other side will not accept them between The North and The Republic. The Common Travel Area is an excellent way to overcome this and minimise bureaucracy. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[eastern wiseguy]

WHBM.......regrettably correct. doesn't half cut down the travel time though:ok:


Forgot to mention....Mrs EW is an American citizen with an indefinite leave to remain in the UK. We have NEVER taken anything to identify her to the south.

[ROKNA]

Lets get some things clear

1. If you are anything other than a UK or Irish national you need a passport or national ID card

2. Everyone arriving in Dublin Airport will go through immigration, no passport = no entry unless you have a Irish or UK drivers licence which shows you to be Irish or UK national and arrived on a UK flight

3. They do check the trains and buses on a regular basis, not as often as before but it does happen

4. Travelling Ireland -> UK you go through the domestic channel and bypass all immigration though legally a non UK/Irish national should report to the immigration service at that airport

[eastern wiseguy]

check the trains and buses


Hence no checks on my car....

[holyflyer]

Well, I for one have been checked in a car crossing the border at Lifford on the way to the far north of Donegal.

I was also checked at a road block well inside the republic on a journey from the north west that had remained wholly inside the republic.

UK passport and drivers license examined in both cases.

Garda and Irish Customs are also checking cars and passengers on and off the boats - I have experienced this at Rosslare and Dun Laorghaire.

UK SB record passengers and car details of boat passengers arriving and departing at all ports including Stranraer and Larne.

For those who are PPL's and regularly fly the Irish Sea the form filling is becoming a bit of a nightmare.

[racedo]

Racedo....you are simply WRONG. I live on this island.I travel on a regular basis to and from Dublin via rail and/or motorway. There is NO check. There used to be a check when the customs got on the train at Dundalk but that hasn't happened for years. The border is defined ONLY by the road signs changing to KILOMETRES and the petrol prices dropping/climbing.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article4392963.ece

Getting in and visas for Ireland (http://www.gapyear.com/ireland/getting_in/)

Proposals for controls on UK and Ireland travel - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 25, 2008 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0725/1216917539739.html)
From Irish Times
"However, the British say that "mirroring activity in the Republic" they will consider increasing "ad hoc immigration checks on vehicles in order to target non-CTA nationals on the Northern Ireland side of the land border"."

UK Home secrestary is accepting checks are already taking place in ROI, which they are. Just because you haven't been subject to them doesn't mean they are not happening.

[eastern wiseguy]

Well Racedo...I must be EXTREMELY fortunate....There were in the old troubles days NUMEROUS checks....and usually in the vicinity of class C roads. Since 1986 ....with the exception of the foot and mouth crisis...I have NEVER ...EVER ....been checked. My missus regularly transits DUB from CLE with not a sideways glance(excepting when she recieved her Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK and showed it to the ROI border guy in DUB....he just looked askance and said have a nice day)


Whilst it may be happening..in MY experience .....it is as rare as a hens tooth.

The germane portion of your cut and paste section is

considering and Justice Minister Dermot Ahern and British home secretary Jacqui Smith confirmed they have "no plans to introduce fixed controls on either side of the Irish land border for immigration or other purposes".


Any ways ...happy travelling

[aidoair]

ROKNALets get some things clear

1. If you are anything other than a UK or Irish national you need a passport or national ID card

2. Everyone arriving in Dublin Airport will go through immigration, no passport = no entry unless you have a Irish or UK drivers licence which shows you to be Irish or UK national and arrived on a UK flight

3. They do check the trains and buses on a regular basis, not as often as before but it does happen

4. Travelling Ireland -> UK you go through the domestic channel and bypass all immigration though legally a non UK/Irish national should report to the immigration service at that airport

All correct however lately i have noticed a change to arrival into the UK.

A couple of airports i have arrived into from the ROI over the past couple of months or so, now have a seperate area dedicated to ROI flight arrivals. While it is not the usual UK immigration officers there checking documents it is UK border police officers. Other airports seem to still have the UK domestic and Republic of Ireland arrivals section but also are covered by border police officers.

[qwertyplop]

What's a UK Border Police Officer ?

Do you mean SB?

[CarbHeatIn]

No gaurantee you land on the As.

Only 2 airlines operate flights to Irish regional airports from Dub.(Ignore trans-atlantic that stop at SNN)

One of these airlines confines all its operations to the A pier.

[Globaliser]

4. Travelling Ireland -> UK you go through the domestic channel and bypass all immigration though legally a non UK/Irish national should report to the immigration service at that airportOnly a few non-UK/Irish nationals are required to report to immigration at the UK port of arrival. Most can proceed perfectly legally without contacting UK immigration.While it is not the usual UK immigration officers there checking documents it is UK border police officers.If you are referring to uniformed "UK Border" officials, these are the same as the immigration officers to whom you refer. Recent changes to the organisation have put immigration officers into uniform.

[sickofitall]

WHBM:

QUOTE:

It's been like this at Irish airports for a couple of years. The Irish just decided to start looking at passports, whereas in the opposite direction arrivals from Ireland into the UK still adhere to the CTA agreement.

Of course under any reasonable government the UK Foreign Office would have gripped this straight away, and brought it back to the requirements of the agreement between the UK and Ireland. But the UK Foreign Office, under its current Maestro David Miliband and his predecessors, have never cared for things as boring as convenience of travellers from the UK, there aren't a lot of champagne receptions at embassies or media opportunities for the Minister to be got out of that, so they aren't interested.

UNQUOTE

WHBM, you are not correct. The Irish didnt just decide to start looking at passports. The law was changed by both States in 1997 to include a provision that an acceptable form of identification must be carried.

Now...move on a few years and Ireland is getting overwhelmed by the number of people entering the country illegally and claiming 'asylum'. The vast majority of these entered via the UK. In fact they were able to get into the UK illegally and use that as a stepping stone to enter Ireland. This was as a direct result of the continued failure of the UK to secure it's own borders. In fact there was a situation for a while where Irish Immigration authorities were stopping people from entering the country illegally and returning them to the UK. These people arrived in the UK and were then being sent back to Ireland as the UK authorities had no record of them.

There's also another European Law out there. It states that anybody who wishes to make an application for asylum must do so in the FIRST european country in which they land. Given that Ireland has never had direct flights or sailings from most of the countries from which these 'asylum' seekers come from it stands to reason that they must have staged through another country prior to arriving in Ireland. Regrettably, in most cases this country was the UK.

You say that 'any reasonable government would have brought it back to the requirements of the agreement between the UK and Ireland'.

I remember entering the UK for many many years and being stopped under the provisions of the Prevention of Terrorism Act on the sole basis that I had arrived from Ireland. On every occasion I was asked for identification. No I didnt have to carry a passport and a driving license would suffice. BUT, it's also written in the CTA agreement that it is an offence to refuse to produce when asked, by and authorised officer, any form of identification that may be in your possession. As i always carry my passport I had no choice but to produce it. Before you say that was the police...yes it was, but they are deemed to be authorised officers. So the UK, has for all these years, pretending to abide by the good spirit of the CTA agreement but has been checking passports/driving licences by using the Prevention of Terrorism Act...this was before the change of law in 1997! Before then the agreement was that citizens of either country could travel unimpeded between both countries.!

As a direct result of the numbers of illegals entering the Republic the Irish Authorities were left with little choice but to introduce 100% screening for CTA passengers.

Now I suggest you look at the new Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill published by the UK Gove. This proposes to Control EVERYBODY arriving from another CTA country including the Channel Islands and the Isle Of man. In effect is will do away with the CTA and it has been proposed by the UK

With regard to the original posters question:

Your partner is not a Citizen of either the UK or the Republic of ireland and therefore he needs a visa to enter the republic. Full stop.

If he crosses the land border he is doing so illegally and is liable to deportation if he is caught. He may also be in breach of the terms of his UK visa so get him to think carefully.

[WHBM]

A good perspective from across the sea.

However doing passport checks achieves nothing for controlling the "asylum" seekers. Once you are at the passport desk you are already in the country and they cannot send you back to the UK or their home country if they meet the asylum criteria. For this to be effective passports should be checked before departure.

There was an interesting interregnum of a few years where Immigration Officers sat in booths as you exited pier A at Dublin from UK flights, to check those from overseas. If you looked the part and could manage a "Good Evenng" in an acceptable Irish or UK accent then you didn't need to show anythng. They seemed very good at picking out who they wanted to.

Regarding the police checks entering the UK, in my experience these were rarely manned and the few times I was checked was when arriving from Northern Ireland on a UK domestic flight. I cannot recall it happening when arriving from the Republic, although I accept it could happen. It certainly was not every trip.

Regarding the proposed UK universal regulations, I will believe them when I see them. As I said above, either one side or the other side in Northern Ireland just will not accept them however they are done.