Jpi Edm 700 Engine Instrument

[Victa Bravo]

Is there someone that flys out of Bankstown that would be willing to demonstrate how to use the JPI EDM700?

I have the manual but a demo would complete the learning curve.

VB

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Ah yes, the EDM700 manual is such a well written, informative document, isn't it.

I found that about 20 hrs of flying long legs with the instrument in one hand and the manual in the other solved the problem!

Dr :8

[Tinstaafl]

Wonderful pieces of kit those EDMs! I recommended the EDM760 to the owner of the Navajo I fly. Similarly to FTDK it took a number of hours in the cruise fiddling with it & the engine controls while holding the manual open before I started getting comfortable with it. I found it best to play with it & the engine controls on the empty legs. Nearly all my flights with the owner are drop offs or pick ups so plenty of empty legs to practice.

One of the first things I did was set the default leaning type to LoP. Saves mucking around holding buttons just prior to leaning because the major reason for getting the thing was for LoP ops.

The next thing was to send it back during a the next available non-flying period to be converted to a USB port instead of the default serial port it arrived with. Why, in this day & age are they still stuffing around with serial ports for a simple data download? How many laptops still have a serial port? And who wants to drag their laptop to the aircraft instead of a USB memory stick? I really bitched at JPI about that. Also about the piss poor length of the supplied data cable. Not all aircraft have convenient room right next the instrument to mount the data port.

[bensonC]

If you haven't come across this already here is a link to the demo vids for various JPI EDM units. I found them very helpful when learning to use the 700 in the 206.

Video Tutorials | J.P. Instruments (http://www.jpitech.com/videos.php)

[Jamair]

Great bit of kit, one flight with Chuck convinced me and I installed one on delivery of my aeroplane....and I also griped at the poxy serial port.:mad:

REAL interesting to compare the digital calibrated readings against the original equipment analogue gauges.:eek:

Once you have the hang of it, initialising (adding fuel etc) is a breeze and using its features and incorporating it in the scan becomes second nature.

Once you have it set up, download, graph and examine the data for the last bit of a flight and note the point at which the engines are coolest. For those who insist on sitting on the ground for three minutes 'cooling down' the turbo, it is a real eye-opener. The 'coolest' period is from power reduction at ToD to the end of the landing roll. Sitting on the ground 'cooling down' actually heats the whole lot up again!

[RadioSaigon]

For those who insist on sitting on the ground for three minutes 'cooling down' the turbo, it is a real eye-opener. The 'coolest' period is from power reduction at ToD to the end of the landing roll. Sitting on the ground 'cooling down' actually heats the whole lot up again!

Well spoken Jamair!!! Nice to have a bit of empirical confirmation of what my gut told me years ago! First night-flight in a 402C I noticed pretty much just that from the glow of the turbo's in the cowls. Subsequent flights reinforced the notion and discussion with engineers led to me binning the run-down as severely counter-productive. In most cases, there was well over 3 minutes from throttles fully closed over the threshold to actually arriving at the parking/shutdown spot anyway, so any further run-down really felt like a noodle-pull.

Yet another OWT -BUSTED! :}

wait, I can hear the lunatic-fringe cranking up already...

[Chimbu chuckles]

The real beauty of the EDMs is that, apart from making sure that fuel in the computer = fuel in tanks, they just sit there telling you stuff with little real effort and virtually no input on your part.

Honestly all I knew how to do was enter fuel when I got airborne first time with my new EDM 700..anyway other than that all you need to be able to do is flick the switch between fuel/all/temps and then press the STEP button to cycle through all the info...eventually you find what you're looking for.:}

I'd take a spare pair of eyes to look out while you experience the initial head down 'OH WOW' factor...mind you if the spare eyes are another pilot he'll be going 'OH WOW' too...but you'll probably find quite quickly that the EDM just becomes a part of your normal scan rather than the focus of your attention.

They are no different to every other new gadget...you learn lots more by pushing buttons than reading books...anyway its the manly way of doing things.:E

To this day I doubt I have read an FMC manual from beginning to end...pushed a lot of buttons...and after a little while I knew what would happen when button x, y or z was pushed...I think the first button I learned to love was labelled 'ERASE'..and the first I learned to fear was labelled 'DEL':}

[PLovett]

Once you have flown with a JPI or similar instrument together with GAMI injectors you will begin to realise that the vast majority of pilots and engineers have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to engine management. :suspect:

You will also begin to realise just how much money goes down the exhaust manifold that could have been saved. :=

They are simply brilliant and for any operator worried about the overhaul costs of a big Lycoming or Continental you should seriously consider installing them :ok:

[ZEEBEE]

Yes and the other "hairy practice" was one that I was taught early on in my training that the JPI put to bed very quickly....

That of opening the cowl flaps just before touch down "in case you need to do a go around"

The JPI showed that to be pretty damaging to big bore engines like IO-520's etc. The cooling gradient was quite scary and now if I HAVE to go around, I'll open the cowl flaps once the aircraft is established in the climb. Again, the JPI shows that this is benign to the engine as opposed to the cooling shock of opening the cowl flaps in the late final.

The cool down period on fixed wing turbos has long been contentious and I've NEVER understood the justification for it.
Helicopters are different matter where high power settings are used for the hover to landing...but FW ???

[ratso]

All of the above replies are so correct.

I would like to add this...a SKYDIVING OPERATION in south east QLD that opeates cessnas have never I repeat never cracked a cylinder since fitting these gauges.
The pilots, I guess one would say ..FLY THE AIRCRAFT BY THE GAUGE..
Buy one and save money.

[bushy]

I thought the idling on the ground process was mainly to keep the oil supply up to the turbos until they slowed down. The automotive people seem to think the same with turbo charged engines which idle for some time before shutting down.
And yes,with aircraft, most of that occurred during the taxi in.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I thought the idling on the ground process was mainly to keep the oil supply up to the turbos until they slowed down

Ditto!

What's the big deal anyway? Hit the stopwatch as you roll out and shut down 3 min later. If the owner of the C402 I used to fly had required me to whistle the first 3 bars of "Dixie" before I shut down, I would gladly have done that also!

Dr :8

[RadioSaigon]

...was mainly to keep the oil supply up to the turbos until they slowed down...

Not a bad point. I do recall raising that with one of the engineers I discussed the run-down with. From memory his idea was once again, having throttles closed or at low-idle from somewhere over the threshold until reaching the parking/shutdown area was more than enough time in most cases for the turbos to be spun-down about as far as they would go on an operating engine. I recall reading something somewhere (wish I could find it now) about this; again from memory, the idea was in an aircraft with throttles closed to a MP below ambient atmospheric pressure, the turbos were being driven by the mass-flow through them, rather than driving the mass-flow. Again the conclusion was of a rapid decay in turbo rpm at engine idle, with the consequent temp gain of an extended run-down negating any potential perceived benefits.

I'll try to find the document to post...

...automotive people seem to think the same with turbo charged engines which idle for some time before shutting down...

I'm afraid this is one that I personally consider to be a furphy of the worst kind -in most cases.

I've owned a twin-turbocharged 3-litre V6 for a bit over 11 years now. She's my pride & joy. I've had my share of grief with her over the years, but none of it has been engine/turbo-charger related. Predominantly it's been the transmission that's caused me grief. My practice in running the car is the same as most normally aspirated engine drivers -when I get there, I turn her off. Simple. The only exception to that is, if I've been running her hard out on the open road and need to pull up for a slash, a bevvie or whatever, I will either leave her running for a short stop or run her down for a minute or 2, no more.

One major difference in the way I operate all my cars (turbo or not) is I run then up! First start of the day, I'll start her then go back inside & make a cup of coffee. By the time that's done, she's generally warm enough that she's off the auto-choke fast-idle, and the oil pressure gauge shows it has come back down to what I know to be her 'normal' pressure. I don't drive her until then. Once she's warmed, it's generally 5+ minutes driving in town before she's in a place that she can be opened up -by which time the transmission is also warmed. Then she can go to work, without worry. There's no need to put the car on the turbo in town at all; anything under 90kmh I'm in 3rd gear too, never above.

I am strongly of the opinion it is far more important that you look after and care for a cold engine than a hot one. To date, I have not seen any evidence that my theory is in error -in cars or in aircraft.

To further illustrate: there was a young fella lived just down the hill from me that owned a Godzilla, with the ceramic turbo. First thing in the morning you'd hear him start, then before the rpm had even stabilised, he'd be off down the road with everything howling. Of a night he'd arrive home in a similar fashion then leave his car running on the front-lawn for a good 20-30 minutes -I **** you not- before he'd shut it down.

One day I was washing mine on the street and up comes himself. First question was "it's a turbo isn't it?" Yup says I. "How long have you owned it?" was next -about 5 years at that point. "How many turbo's have you blown???" came next. He looked a bit miffed when I told him none. Seemingly he'd gone through 3 in little over 6 months... I don't know much about Godzilla's (usually only see them in the rear mirror and then not for long :}) but suggested to him that maybe his engine management was a bit arse-about-face. Don't know what the outcome of that conversation was... either he or the car moved on not long after.

One advantage my car has is a boost gauge. I can see (and hear) when my turbos are working. If the needles at the bottom of the gauge for 2-3 minutes before I get there, just shut her off. Easiest engine-management of the lot.

My point of course is that you get one chance to look after your engine of a day -and a lot of people seem to do it at the wrong end of the day!!! Stacking heat back into your engine is counter-productive, whatever your justification.

I'd love to see some turbo-RPM vs temp data for the turbo's -I reckon it'd tell a very interesting tale from TOD to shut-down! Anyone know where I'd find some?

[Warbo]

Hey VB, I too am learning how to use this instrument. I found this (http://earthflight.com/JPI_Productions.html) bunch of videos on the manufacturers website.

[rioncentu]

PLovett

Sounds like you have been an one of the APS Seminars?

I'd highly recommend them to anyone who doubts the engine management/LOP debate etc.