Why Captain?

[Davey Croppet]

I cannot help but notice the jerks in our small industry that call themselves "Captain". I've seen it on letters, business cards, you name it. Whatever happened to Mr?

I have flown in the military and have various civil ratings, including 412 and 332, but I wouldn't dream of using such a title.

Whilst most of us act in a professional manner and have huge amounts of responsibility, pilots in general are uneducated, usually without tertiary qualifications and have rarely finished secondary school.

For the jerks out there that feel that they need to hide behind a title, I bet you couldn't captain a girls netball team! Remember, a bus driver also wears 4 stripes! But then again, we are just glorified bus drivers!

Comments invited

Croppet

[Whirlygig]

Inverted snobbery is just as bad. :rolleyes:

A lot of pilots, helicopter or otherwise, DO have tertiary edication; in some cases :O quatenary (?) education.

And others are well-balanced with a chip in both shoulders. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[PHP]

I couldn't agree more with Croppet!

[alouette3]

For someone who is a probationary pruner with just three posts under your belt since joining this forum this month, you certainly have cojones to bad mouth the very group you want to be a part of. So, in your exalted opinion, someone with more "education" can call themselves captain but not otherwise? Oh yes, since when did training for, and receiving, a professional license and maintaining it for years and years not count as education? No wonder helicopter pilots are under compensated throughout the world. It is because of opinions like yours.:ugh:
I know what everyone wants to say to you and are keeping quiet because they are professionals.But I will show no such restraint.
You are a :mad: !!
BTW, I do not call myself Captain ,since I am in a single pilot operation and it would be pompous to do so. But I do have a couple of degrees and what's more, respect for people regardless of their education. That's a whole lot more than what you have.
Alt3

[HR GREENIE]

Does this mean Ill have to start calling my Autopilots Captain ?

[Teefor Gage]

I used to deream of being a hicopleter Capitain, and now I are wun!!

Well said aloutte3. It seems obvious that DC doesn't really have any "civil" ratings!

[heliduck]

Why port & starboard instead of left & right?
Why fore & aft instead of front & back?
Why engineer instead of mechanic?
Why do we board an aircraft but get into a car?
Why use Nautical miles?

An educated aviator would have made the connection to the marine days of the past which were carried over to aviation. Personally I agree that people who drive helicopters shouldn't be called Captains, as extrapolating the old marine terminology the captain doesn't drive the ship does he? He just tells everyone else what to do. I suppose they figured if the mechanics can call themselves engineers then dammit I want to be called a Captain!!!

[madrock]

.......always wanted to Captain a girls netball team:cool:

[Flying Lawyer]

Davey CroppetWhy Captain?I don't know about Australia but in many parts of the world, including the UK, that is the proper title.

Using Captain in a social context would be OTT but in a professional/business context it is absolutely correct.

Unnecessary (or false) modesty plays into their hands of employers who, for their own financial motives, try to diminish the status of professional pilots. If professional pilots describe themselves as "just glorified bus drivers", that's how they will be treated. That attitude may well be part of the reason why many pilots are underpaid.

Professional pilots are entitled to be proud of the qualification they have achieved and IMHO should be proud of it.
I wouldn't dream of using such a titleThat's your choice; it doesn't mean professional pilots who take a different view are "jerks."
Your criticism of, and offensive comments about, those who are proud of their profession says more about you than them.

Comments invitedSince you ask (and to use an expression of yours) -
When I read your post, my immediate reaction was: What a jerk. :rolleyes:
Then, on reflection, I thought perhaps you're not really a jerk and either you'd had too much too drink before posting or were simply trying to provoke a reaction.



.

[SASless]

FL,

When does one become able to use the term "Captain"....upon obtaining a Commericial License, ATPL, command of a crew served aircraft? Does one ever lose the claim to the use of "Captain" once gained....say if one returns to flying single pilot....or losing one's medical certification?

I never did grasp the finer points of "rank" as used in the British Social Structure....something about Men wearing Garters gave cause for thought while trying to figger this out. Seemed an odd thing for grown men to hope for....remembering my humble American heritage which handicaps my understanding of such things.

It seems in the US of A....one has to be an Airline Pilot-in-Command before being crowned a Captain....or having a USCG comericial license or being in command of your own vessel....something bigger than a "boat".

[Davey Croppet]

(I never did grasp the finer points of "rank" as used in the British Social Structure....something about Men wearing Garters gave cause for thought )

LOL

Croppet

[HR GREENIE]

Captain Kurk, Captain Stubing ,Captain and T,Niel, Captain Jack Sparrow , Captain Sensible , Captain Feather sword , Captain Free love , I,I Captain, anyone else see a pattern ?

[baldebanger]

It sounds like Captain "Alou..tte 3" keeps a log book of his posts on this site! More posts than hours?

As for you Davey Croppet, you could at least show some respect to your fellow pilots and use the term "coach driver" :-)

Captain Banger!

[spinwing]

Mmmmm .....

Should I ..... shouldn't I (respond) ....... Oh crapp it I have havn't I !

CAPTAIN SPINWING :E

[MightyGem]

(I never did grasp the finer points of "rank" as used in the British Social Structure....something about Men wearing Garters gave cause for thought )
LOL

So, is that the only response that you have to replies to your original post?


Troll.

[VTA]

CAPTAIN !!!!!! You guys are all a bunch of pu--ies !!!! Real helicopter pilots are COMMANDERS....Hang on...Thats only 3 bars.......s--t !!!!

VTA

[floatsarmed]

DC.

1. Who cares?

2. Netball is a fast and dynamic game played by yummy mummys.

3. The correct term is 'Coach Captain'

:ok:

Floats Out.

[Um... lifting...]

I like to be called Marshal Air Marshal (I wear six stripes and some pips as well...)

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[traumajunkie]

I'm not too fussed about rank & title; I just have the netball team glass anyone who doesn't salute me. ;)

[Never in Balance]

Well i guess she has a point.... it is a "football"

[integrity]

Hey D.C.,

Way to go for throwing a wild cat in with the little birdies. Love a good Friday stir up, and i can only imagine the incident which must have provoked you. Good on you for speaking your mind, and you have my vote!

Half the problem with this industry is the epedemic of narcicism which pervades our workplace. I've lost count of the number of 'best pilot in the world' that i've heard of, or met. And it's a wonder most pilots mirrors aren't worn out from over use.

D.C. - you've obviously done your time and got the t-shirts to prove it, so I don't care how many posts you've had, you seem quite entitled to say your bit. That is the joy of this forum.

To add to your comments - i love the guys who register a business name (about $110, and a signature), then print the business card as "Director" or CEO, or even Chief Pilot! Then they tell all the girls that they own their own helicopter company. As this is an Oz generated thread, i'm only commenting on the indistry here, (I pray it's better for pilots O.S.), but I think our professional pride in who we are and what we do should be a personal thing, do you really need to try and tell the world how good you are? Are people so really self-absorbed that they truely care what anyone else thinks? So long as we do our best professional job and treat those around us with respect, we should sleep well at night, and that should be enough. We will all get our true accountability eventually by the one who really counts. The fact that (the majority of) employers tend to treat us like numbers, and their accountants seem to think we are worth less than the bus drivers, plumbers, firemen etc etc, should be more than enough to temper those egos. Or perhaps the real problem is those who choose to slap titles onto themselves, wear the epaulettes home in the car and the flight suit to buy the groceries, haven't been in the game long enough or traveled with it wide enough to realise just where we rate in the scheme of things.

I wish it were different, but after 20 years it still seems the same ol' ****e, and the current world fur-ball that is being coughed up doesn't seem to be helping.

D.C. - hope we get to have a drink somewhere one day. Hell, it's friday... lets start! :O

[Heliringer]

I have not met anyone YET who calls themself Captain or has business cards/letter heads etc with Captain on it. Maybe the fixed wing (Airline) types but not Helicopter pilots surely.

Where are they and is it really that common?


Captain (Respect my authoritieeeeeee) Ringer:ok:

[baldebanger]

Integrity, I'll have a beer with you anytime. You too DC !! So would many of my pilot colleagues and "mechanic" friends. Have a good one!

Capt. Hedley Banger III :ok:

[Heliport]

Davey Croppet/PHP/HR Greenie/baldebanger
For the jerks out there that feel that they need to hide behind a title .....

If pilots who use 'Captain' are jerks, what do you call someone who uses 4 different usernames to agree with himself? :confused:



Heliport http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HeliportSmiley.gif

[spinwing]

Mmmm ....

Does it begin with "W" and end with "r" ... 6 letters .... lets see ("W****r") ?


:confused:


(Thank you Heliport .... I think a few of us had suspicions).

[Camp Freddie]

I have seen R22 pilots with PPL's and 4 bars who describe themselves as "captain" wherever they go, and AW139/S76 captains with 20,000 hours and no bars and no name on their flight suit who describe themselves by their first name.

my own view is that for single pilot ops it doesnt mean that much to call yourself captain although I guess its technically legit I would be happy to be called "the pilot" in that context, but for multi crew its more valid to describe yourself like that so the passengers and operations and others involved know who's in charge and ultimately responsible from the crew.

as for bars why not wear them when your doing the job only, there really is no need to walk round tescos wearing them, although some people do, i guess they have a need to be respected.

CF

[unstable load]

This culled from another thread.....

Eating a Bad Lunch then a ferry flight over water followed by lunch departing without clearance" Yes Sir sitting in crap for over an hour"

Croppet

Mountain Top Bankstown

Lacks judgement, IMO.:mad:
Should consider re-naming to Dozy Crapsit.:E

[spinwing]

..."AW139/S76 captains with 20,000 hours and no bars and no name on their flight suit who describe themselves by their first name."

Mmmmmm .... Could be me ! ... and I usually answer to "Hey You" ;)


..... but whatever you call me ..... please don't call me "late for dinner!"


Ta :p

[pohm1]

Heliport

what do you call someone who uses 4 different usernames to agree with himself?

Is he twice as bad as someone who does the same, but only using 2 usernames? ;)

P1

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

What a childish debate.

Whirlygig siad it best "INVERTED SNOBBERY"

A "Captain" (Aircraft Commander) is someone who has a license, forms a properly constituted member of the flight crew and has the overriding responsibility for the conduct and safety of the flight, be it a humble R22 to a big noisy S92.

For the inverted snobs, actually the paying PAX in my experience like to know who "Is the Captain" either to follow his leads, or to bollock him when he won't take them all the way (depending on the status of the PAX).

There is nothing more disheartening than a slovenly turned out crew, inappropritaley dressed and not wearing their rank so you have no idea who is the lead. Its bad for the industry, bad for the PAX and makes us all look unprofessional.

I am always impressed when I visit smaller training schools in the UK and a young R22 FI turns up immaculatley dressed, wearing the rank he has earned by virtue of his Qualifications and sending out the right message to his students, passengers and the greater public.

There is nothing "Hard" or "Trendy" about looking like a bag of sh***t.

For those individuals who like to be addressed as Captain (on letters and stuff) good luck to them. Their achievements are important to them and they have the right to enjoy them!!!

If you are sooooo... experienced and soooo. cool that you do not need these simple trinkets that are so ingrained and associated with the profession you have chosen, then please f***k off and let the rest of us keep up the ethos and reputation that so amply befits a person who routinley drags a howling bag of rivets skyward in pursuit of money, glory, joy, excitement.

DB OUT

[fluffy5]

I believe you have some pilots that wear their bars after they have finished work and go and do their shopping, or have their bank cards changed with captain on the front. which I just think is sad. Or going down your local pub with your bars on, some people will think what a t****r, it's probably an attention seeking way, for someone to come rushing up and to ask them what do they do.
Believe me I've tried it, wearing my bars around tesco's about 2pm trying to pick up a few single mum's, and it does not work, they just think I'm a security guard.......:}

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Fluffy5, it might be cos you are just to ugly to pick up single mums (MILFs I believe they are called these days).

Should work on the Gay community though, they just luv a butch man in uniform (so I am told)

[Union Jack]

You really have to laugh about the whole four stripes/bars malarkey when you consider that the "captain" of a military helicopter can be a Corporal whereas a military four-stripe equivalent Captain/Group Captain/ Colonel is, theoretically, some nine or ten ranks higher (depending on country/service)!

Puts it all in perspective somehow.:ok:

Jack

[SASless]

Fluffs,

Perhaps it might not be the "bars" that are the handicap!:uhoh:

[Shawn Coyle]

In a former life, I asked one of the pilots for a major helicopter manufacturer why he had a shirt with 4 stripes on it as he started a trip through central and South America. He said that if you didn't dress like that (and added 'especially in Africa') you wouldn't get any respect from anyone. Probably wouldn't even get close to your own helicopter.
It ain't just us who are in the day to day world who are watching - dress appropriately, speak appropriately and act even more appropriately.

[parabellum]

So Croppet, what would you prefer to call the two pilots at the front of a two crew helicopter, "Mr & Mrs"?

Croppet - when was the last time that your 'phone rang at 01.30hrs to call you in to work as a rig was in trouble? Seriously cold, blinding rain and winds of 80kts. Nevertheless you rug-up in immersion suits with your FO and with your ten to twenty seat helicopter go to the aid of the crew of a rig that has started to tip, you do several quick ferry flights between the stricken rig and a nearby stable one, crap weather, reduced visibility, other helicopters in the area too, each time the tip is worse, eventually you have to give it away and return to base around first light. You and your co-pilot have done a very hard nights work, you are both professional pilots. Any reason why the commander of that aircraft and in control of the lives of so many people shouldn't be recognised as a Captain?

Don't think you have actually operated in the real world yet Croppet, just military bull**** and sunshine.

[What Limits]

When I get my PhD do I call myself Captain Doctor or Doctor Captain?

[unstable load]

Shawn,

He said that if you didn't dress like that (and added 'especially in Africa') you wouldn't get any respect from anyone.

I can vouch for that one in Africa. I am an engineer and wore the 2 bars with purple trim and it opened many doors that would have been firmly closed without them, like the door to the apron for example. I was once even promoted to "Captain" with 4 bars due to a particularly officious fellow. One of the guys had a set of epaulettes made with 6 bars just for sh1ts and giggles and people were falling over themselves to serve this new super pilot.:D

[EC135CAPTAIN]

Future is no driver, UAV manager.

[ShyTorque]

Or going down your local pub with your bars on, some people will think what a t****r, it's probably an attention seeking way, for someone to come rushing up and to ask them what do they do.


I once had a particulary stressful week and decided to call into my (very small) local for a quick relaxing beer before going the last half mile home. I took off my traffic warden/security guard/ pilot uniform gold bars and put my black rain jacket on over the top of my shirt. I went to the bar with the jacket on and then sat down by the fire. One local called over "Hey, ShyT! Aren't you staying... take your jacket off! So I did.

Next thing: "That's a bit presumptuous - coming in here wearing a shirt with epaulettes on!"

I reached in my pocket, put the gold braid back on and said "No, THAT'S presumptuous".

His pretty wife laughed and said to him "There, that's told YOU!"

He bought me the next beer. :)

[birrddog]

Surely the Walt rules apply?

If it gets you a leg over (or in ShyT's case a beer), then it is ok?

[spinwing]

.....One of the guys had a set of epaulettes made with 6 bars just for sh1ts and giggles and people were falling over themselves to serve this new super pilot.


Mmmmm .....


Note to self ...... "Must try this one on my next trip to India!"



:E

[GJM]

The captain doesn't drive the ship does he? He just tells everyone else what to do.

Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he just uses auto pilot when he knows he shouldn't.


I suppose they figured if the mechanics can call themselves engineers then dammit I want to be called a Captain!!!

Mechanics and Engineers are two very different things.

On ships, you generally have Engineers and Motormen, the Engineers are so as they have a qualification to say so.

Offshore on installations and what not, there are Mechanics who are precisely that, infact that tag is above some, so they would not go near the Engineer tag.

I've sailed with Captains who will not allow you to refer to them as so and on the flip side sailed with others who will only be refered to as Captain.

Overall the ones who desire to be called Captains are not likeable people.

[GoodGrief]

@spinwing

Too late...:p

[Delta Torque]

In a past life, I spent some time in the army with a guy called 'Major' (his Christian name), whose rank was Captain...

So he was 'Captain Major L.......'..

hehe

[Mark Six]

... Larowe!

[Delta Torque]

Crikey, no names no pack drill....but yes...that was the man!

[Red Wine]

Flying Lawyer.

Sorry your Honour, you are incorrect.

He is a Jerk!

[Tuckunder]

Oh buggar, do you mean to say my wife is right not to polish my shoes when I leave them outside the bedroom door!

Capt Tuck

[Semi Rigid]

Ferry flights through Malaysia Thailand Indonesia Papua New Guinea - you should at least wear an iorned preferably white shirt & some crunchie bars if you have them. Indonesian's get very suss on you if you climb out of the steerers seat & don't 'look the part'.
Quite often travel agents in PNG will prefix a booking with Captain if the client happens to be an aviator & it may have something to do with the passenger list provided to the crew. I have seen hostie's walk up to a seat & ask the Doctor sitting there to come take a look at a crook geezer - how did they know that person was a medico?

[Teefor Gage]

It's interesting to note that none of the above have contributed to this thread since Heliports remark.
But it looks like there coule be another "low posts" person in the same list? He certainly has a thing about people who prefer to be called Captain.
I don't mind what people call me, provided they pay me enough! :cool:

[HeliCraig]

A "Captain" (Aircraft Commander) is someone who has a license, forms a properly constituted member of the flight crew and has the overriding responsibility for the conduct and safety of the flight, be it a humble R22 to a big noisy S92.

I am always impressed when I visit smaller training schools in the UK and a young R22 FI turns up immaculatley dressed, wearing the rank he has earned by virtue of his Qualifications and sending out the right message to his students, passengers and the greater public.

There is nothing "Hard" or "Trendy" about looking like a bag of sh***t.

I agree with DB, although this is a slightly pointless debate! I hold a PPL and fly R22s and R44s, and wouldn't dream of calling myself Captain in a serious manner. However, my friends (who endured my endless tales of flying while learning, and continue to do so), find it funny to call me Captain, or CaptainCraigos - because I am the only person they know who can fly. It does no harm and has sort of stuck as a nick name.

However, I whole heartedly agree with DB, and FL's sentiment that those who are flying professionally are entitled to use the title and I think should do so. They should also be appropriately turned out, call me a stickler; I think it was all those detentions at school for having odd socks on that did it!!

We have all achieved something of which to be proud, from R22 up to S92 - it doesn't hurt sometimes to be reminded of it!

(Oh, and I will also happily captain a netball team!! :8)

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

When I did the Army Pilot course the offical designation was "Driver Airframe" although we were referred to as pilots.

I don't mind the Captain handle but I certainly don't insist on it. Perhaps there is an element of inverted snobbery due to the fact that I was a Sergeant pilot ? As long as I'm paid people can call me Deputy Assistant to the Assistant Deputy Cockroach Crusher for all I care !!

Bristow overseas operations used to have a rule (no doubt invented by engineers) forbidding "bars in the bar" but it seems to have gone by the board these days.

NEO

[TeeS]

I put our recycling out this morning while wearing my stripes!

Pretentious? Moi?

TeeS :)

(or was it my strides?)

[iceberglead]

Whilst most of us act in a professional manner and have huge amounts of responsibility, pilots in general are uneducated, usually without tertiary qualifications and have rarely finished secondary school.

On what planet are you from? I've flown on three continents and have yet to meet an uneducated helicopter pilot. Fortuneately, I haven't had the displeasure of meeting you. I wouldn't include yourself as being a part of this small community with comments like these. Jerkweed certainly comes to mind. Do everyone a favour and keep your idiotic comments to yourself. Or at least grow some humility.

PS, do you really have nothing better to do than stir s__t in this forum? Your time may be better spent trying to figure out how to rewire the connection from your mouth to your brain.

[Gordy]

I've flown on three continents and have yet to meet an uneducated helicopter pilot. Fortuneately,

Now...If only you could spell...

And now for some humor:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/heloplt2.jpg

[flyer43]

Gordy. Where did you get those pictures of young Boswell?

[iceberglead]

If only I could spell? You might want to check your interpretation of how to spell 'fortuneately' Gordy. Not rocket science here folks. Thanks for the cheap shot :mad:.

[Teefor Gage]

I hope we're not going to start the Humor v Humour argument as well.........

[traumajunkie]

Re: humor v. humour, is there actually a legitimate entry in some English dictionary for the spelling 'fortuneately'? This is not intended to be a sarcastic post, I simply have never seen this before. But then again, I'm just a helicopter captain. :E

[Gordy]

You might want to check your interpretation of how to spell 'fortuneately' Gordy. Not rocket science here folks.

Still not spelled correctly for the context you intended.

Thanks for the cheap shot

You're welcome--just trying to inject humor.

Do everyone a favour and keep your idiotic comments to yourself. Or at least grow some humility.

Your words not mine---these are mine:

......Oh never mind, you wouldn't get it anyway.

[Union Jack]

Oh, and I will also happily captain a netball team!! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/nerd.gif

Presumably just so long as it is not the Commercial Union one .....!

Jack

[parabellum]

Oh dear! Here we have a thread started by a total pillock, with no knowledge of commercial aviation command and after only 64 posts we have descended into vitriol and personal abuse!!!

Whatever next! (Has the Troll succeeded?).

[Whirlygig]

vitriol and personal abuse
Where, where, where? :}

C'mon, call that vitriol? It's pathetic and feeble, you lot can't even muster up some proper insults :E

Cheers

Whirls

[SASless]

Gordy Lad,

You are way above the chattering class with your humour......in time perhaps they will tweak to it!:ok:

[iceberglead]

Gordy, I'm enlightened. Hang on, let me check the spelling.
Cool. You're right, silly comment on my behalf.
Now, it's time to go flying. Cheers everyone.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Captain? Well the company says I am, and they are the ones who put it on my business cards etc. (In fact I seem to remember it appeared somewhere in my employment contract)

[the delaminator]

Amazing.

Four pages of response from a clearly stupid comment from a serious KNOB.

I'm guessing our community must be carrying some baggage around this issue.

As far as I am concerned.... Call me Captain or call me Dickwit. Just don't call me late for happy hour.:8:8

[pilonrock]

I want to be the ball, at the topless game! :mad: