NAIPS for iPhone

[Shagpile]

edit 19Jul09 - available on app store $7.99 iTunes Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=323268113&mt=8)
edit 13jun09 - beta testing closed
edit 11Jul09 - Posted to app store. Expect Apple to approve it within the week. Cost $7.99

Hi all,

I've just finished developing NAIPS for apple iPhone (not full featured yet...be patient!). So far I have working:

- location briefing (with a quick common button to get frequently used locations up without typing them).
- area briefing
- location directory
- first/last light
- custom briefing (type in 2 airports, a min runway length & max distance off track and it will retrieve all weather/notams for the best 12 diverts enroute the great circle track).
- auto-login using your airservices login (which is saved).
- ability to SAVE the reports for viewing in flight mode whilst flying.
- downloads *text only* so it works super fast. From pressing the icon to load the app, then downloading weather for my top 5 airfields took 15 seconds on telstra 3g, compared with 2:30 from within safari without the ability to save. Also makes it easier to download from 15,000 ft :)

Future developments [or anything as requested by you guys!] I am planning:
- Submit flight plan (probably single stage only, with no ability to delete since that is technically hard).
- download a select number of charts e.g. SatPic, grid pt winds etc.
- SPFIB..although that is quite a big task and would require a lot of effort.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8183/img0115.png

Currently works with iphone 2.2.1 and also works with the latest OS 3.0 beta5.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2194/img0116.png

What I need: [2 things...]

1) Anybody who wants this for free to do beta testing - please send me your iPhone 40 digit UDID which you can get in iTunes by clicking on your iPhone's serial number and it changes to UDID. I also need your email address to send it to you. I can probably take only 20 or so users.

2) any feature requests that you would like? Keep in mind I dont do this as a job (im a pilot by trade) so I'm limited by time.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8272/img0108.png

Would most of you guys be willing to pay a few dollars for something like this in order to compensate for the huge amount of time required and things like the $120 apple developer fee to distribute?

[tmpffisch]

Love the idea, I use my iPhone for planning too (copilot).

Will PM you with my details, happy to help. Happy to pay too.

[compressor stall]

Looks good. I'd certainly buy it for few $.

I'd love to be a tester, but have to wait until I get my iphone 3g S in a couple of weeks!:ok:

[RAAus_Pilot]

Brilliant!! A few dollars will be more than justifiable for this app. I've been waiting for this for ages!

Nice work, any time frames yet?

[Shagpile]

Sweet I didn't expect replies that quickly!

Here are some more screenshots:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4373/img0111.png

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/214/img0110.png

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/373/img0109.png

Be patient on me emailing the app - I need to wait till I get a few testers and do it all at once [apple make this cumbersome]. In particular for bugs, I need locations in the custom briefing section that are not accepted by airservices so I can delete from the database (an old DAFIF database).

[twista]

fark that is so cool! go Iphone!

[Triple Captain]

How about wx radar overlay (from BOM) on FLT plan track with current GPS position?

:)

[hogespa28]

The ability to download the ERSA entries would be a nice touch

[glekichi]

What Triple Captain said!! :ok:

[blueloo]

Can you add a boeing style nav display and full pegasus FMC....... its the only way I will ever see a GPS in a 767....





some pedant will mention this if I don't - other than OGT,U,V OR TERRAIN egpws

[Ovation]

I'd have to buy an Iphone first, but yes, I'd kick in some bucks for the App.

[Jay Bo]

Great! Maybe in the future you could add a simple flight planner where the downloaded winds could work out headings/gs/eti etc
Definately spring a few bucks for this

[SeaMoss]

Yeh, well done. Looks great. Sign me up.

[b_sta]

Definitely interested, sent you a PM :)

[JCJ]

Sent a PM, definitely interested and certainly worth a few bucks!!

[2p!ssed2drive]

Just for information there is already an App available to pilots (not as good as what you're whipping up though!)

Might be worth checking it out... it's called 'PilotWiz'

There's a free one and one you can buy. (It decodes weather aswell for the lazy)

[b_sta]

PilotWiz is more like an electronic E6B though, rather than a program that parses NAIPS data on the fly. Oh, and PilotWiz doesn't actually work when you try to grab weather for the majority of Aus airports other than the major class C ones. :ugh:

[vee1-rotate]

yeah b_sta is correct...pilotwiz, aeroweather and ie6b (all of which I have purchased) are great little aviation apps, but most don't do the 1 important thing that I'd love them to do, and thats download detailed weather information for Australia.

Have sent you a PM shags...am quite confident your app will be well accepted by the pilot/iphone fraternity :ok:

[Mark1234]

definately interested, though I'm on the touch platform - might be an interesting line in the beta testing (wi-fi bridged to N95 to 3G data). PM will be forthcoming.

[Mr. Hat]

Gold.

Will have to ask the accountant about the tax deductability on it.

(i'm looking for a reson to get an iphone) Mrs Hat is going to get phone envy.

[Shagpile]

Hey all - thanks for the strong feedback, I was also looking for something like this and gave up so I just wrote one!

First up I just have to point out that this isn't commercial (which you have probably guessed!). If I make a few hundred bucks after 6 months then its going straight to the tap in mitchell st, darwin [or on shoes for the wife who has to put up with me on the computer]. I was thinking of putting it at a $3 price point (apple take a 30% cut for distribution etc).
Anyway - sorry for the couple of beta testers I sent it to last night...I compiled it using the wrong apple certificates last night so it wont work. I'll add everybody who replied to me today (10th jun 09) and do it tonight, wife permitting. Apple make this the worlds hardest way to distribute software from my end with all their DRM, but once its working it should be simple from your end (just drag the app folder and the certificate into the itunes window into applications and it will sync over). Be patient !

As for other questions:WX radar with GPS position - Awesome idea...that might be a separate app I'll look at doing later. Apple have just opened up their maps API making this kind of stuff quite a lot easier. ALTHOUGH it may indeed not work airborne as the gps in the iphone is *assisted* gps meaning it needs a phone tower to localise its position and downloads the alminac through the cell tower which it uses to lock onto the nearest sattelites. End result is a very quick position lock on the ground, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a 4 channel receiver that didn't work if you flew from A to B a long way apart. [somebody might be able to confirm this next time they are on a plane that allows cell phones, whether the maps app tracks your position].

ERSA/approach plates etc. - I thought of doing this also...its definitely on the maybe list for later [after flight planning is done]. Maybe somebody could write a separate app for this?

Boeing style nav display with blah - I have no idea what your talking about!

Blackberry - No. Completely different software platform, and I heavily rely on using the iPhone sdk to write the software so its not cross-platform at all. Translation: iPhone only, forever.

iPod Touch - interesting. Technically it should work on a touch with a wifi connection, but I have no idea how to hook one up to the internet like you were saying.

Using winds for planning etc. - this would be a big task and detract from the core role of the program. I feel my (limited) time would be better spent writing additional naips features in for things like ERSA, submitting [partially filled out] flight plans etc. There is an app called pilotwiz that I use for things like tas conversions and its really good (although as somebody pointed out, its more of a digital whiz wheel). There are a few others that do things like headings/tracks from winds. It is also really hard to parse airservices data to pick things like individual winds out. That kind of thing is better left to a human brain/eye combination to error check and I would start to get into legal grey territory regarding my obligations to provide accurate data.
disclaimer - downloading weather whilst flying may be bad for your health, especially if your company policy disallows mobiles in the cockpit.

[Shagpile]

Also for those who are worried that I'm not getting your email addresses because it says "invalid hash", its fine - they get sent to my email good readable!

Also I'm sure you can claim the $3 on tax if you remembered :) I doubt it would be out before end of financial year anyway

[Shagpile]

Ha! I just read your message and saw you meant the actual phone! Sure why not! n.b. all financial advice was just made up on the spot

[Crescent]

It sounds like a great app - have PM'd you. In the Aeroweather app I have seen the utility decode the raw info for the user as well - eg raw info:

YSSY 092259Z 1000/1106 25025G35KT
CAVOK
FM101200 23020G30KT CAVOK
FM101800 22015G25KT CAVOK
FM110000 21020G30KT CAVOK

renders as:

issued at 08:59 LT (10.)
Forecast from 10:00 to 16:00 (11.):
250 (WSW) at 25 knots
gusting to 35 knots
Ceiling and Visibility OK
From 22:00 (10.):
230 (SW) at 20 knots
gusting to 30 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK
From 04:00 (11.):
220 (SW) at 15 knots
gusting to 15 knots
Ceiling and visibility OK

etc etc, where the user can toggle between the raw and decoded info. Handy for low time pilots wanting to check they have read and decoded NAIPS correctly. Maybe an idea for next version/later versions or you may never get the app to the Appstore....

Great idea, thanks for your effort in getting this to beta stage, hope it rewards you by paying for itself and some cold ones.

[tmpffisch]

haha, I thought it had been compiled wrong. Looking forward to giving it another shot tonight!

To add some clarification towards programs such as Aeroweather, and E6B programs accessing weather, all those programs download their weather from NOAA (United States) so only includes international airports such as YMML, YSSY, YBBN etc that send METAR and TAF over to NOAA.

Glad you said it would be a non-commercial app, because of AirServices' copyright on NAIPS data....

As for introducing wind correction data, and E6B functions into the program....forget it! There's heaps of programs out there already that can do this, focus on specialising on giving us all the NAIPS functions we need. And as for decoding raw data....I'm a student, I have no problems understanding what's being said (apart from complex SIGMETS). If anything, forget about decoding TAF's and METARS and decode area forecasts instead. I'm sick of pulling out my PCA to work out where everything is located.

[AerocatS2A]

I will have to get an iPhone next time! I got a Palm Treo Pro because my electronic logbook has a version for Windows Mobile but at the time it didn't have one for iPhone. Now they've released a version for iPhone AND your NAIPS app sounds great.

$3 is ridiculously cheap, I'd think nothing of paying $10-$15 for something like that.

[tobz92_ymen]

im with Aerocat on this one, after looking at the price of other apps, i would definitely put this in the $10 - $15 range. Would be more than happy to pay that price if it saves time from logging on to Naips through my PC.

[Shagpile]

$3 is ridiculously cheap, I'd think nothing of paying $10-$15 for something like that.
Careful - dont ruin it for everybody else! Nah the balance is between making it non-commercial, and selling something that took ages to make for less than a cup of coffee, as somebody put it.

I'm still unsure about what airservices policy is on this kind of thing in a commercial nature. If anybody has any knowledge on copyright law (when you login to naips, there is a paragraph that comes up saying you can't redistribute without their written permission, as excepted by copyright law) let me know what you think! I'm basically waiting for them to get back to me [it has been about 2 months now] before I put it on the app store. I have heard from other sources that it takes aaaages and they like money, but we'll see. I tried to argue that this will reduce airservices burden on avfax and telephone briefings in remote areas because people will be able to do it and SAVE it on their phones.

[AerocatS2A]

Careful - dont ruin it for everybody else! Nah the balance is between making it non-commercial, and selling something that took ages to make for less than a cup of coffee, as somebody put it.
No I understand. If three bucks multiplied by however many people buy it is sufficient compensation for your work and you don't want to appear to be running a commercial venture then it's all good. I guess I'm just saying that if you find you need to come to an agreement with Air Services, then I'm sure people would pay more for the product.

[tmpffisch]

Flight planning software (such as Champagne??) access NAIPS (doesn't it?) so it's obviously commercially viable.

The PC version of NAIPS is quite primitive..... surely AirServices should look towards either outsourcing the production of programs such as this, OR allowing commercial programs to use NAIPS data and run a "AirServices Approved" program, so that as pilots we 100% know that the data is verified and not cached etc.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Great looking app mate! I'll be more than happy to test it for you once I get my new iPhone :)

[Shagpile]

The PC version of NAIPS is quite primitive..... surely AirServices should look towards either outsourcing the production of programs such as this, OR allowing commercial programs to use NAIPS data and run a "AirServices Approved" program, so that as pilots we 100% know that the data is verified and not cached etc.

Excellent idea - My program works exactly the same as a web browser accessing the data using http authentication & html (I simply cut all the useless html data out of the feed). Airservices cannot even tell it is an iphone accessing the data, all they see is a firefox web browser (or something, I cant remember what I put). Anyone here a lobbyist ?

[AerocatS2A]

You could probably make some real money and sell the whole thing off to Air Services once you get bored with it.

[Shagpile]

Okay a bit of stuff around but I think I have finally got it working. I've sent it to the first 3 guys who replied to me to check its fully working, then I'll send it out to everybody else who has given me their UDID tomorrow night. Keep them coming, I'll give it to as many people as I can before the night of 12Jun09.

[sprocket check]

It is exactly what I was thinking of yesterday as I was going through the App Store looking at what's out there.

I am no lawyer, but re Airservices and their stupid copyright-there is another thread on this- you are not reselling their data. You are simply providing a customised web browser to the user, in a sense. As you are not making a profit from their data, no problem. All their data for NAIPS is publicly available anyway.

$5 is the right price.

Features-nearest aerodromes in case of emergency, ERSA listing as before and the rest is covered with other apps, also costing around $5.

BTW, this is enough to make most pilots get an iPhone. And some of the apps already out there will blow your mind-instant HUD in your 172 a'la F111, full tracking, DG, VOR, ADF, AH displays a'la Garmin etc,

I will jump on board when my N95 stops working (should be in about two or three weeks) and the new iPhone S arrives.

sc

[EchoNovemberTango]

Looks fantastic. I would be very interested if you were also able to make this application for Nokia mobile phones aswell (N95, N6110 Navigator, etc etc)

Great work!

[Extra260]

Great idea, I use aeroweather on my iphone.. and I like the fact that it decodes the metars and tafs, makes it easy to look at at a glance. It works for me as I fly from YSCB, but a naips application would be much better.

It's a pity airservices don't publish a web services (soap), that would negate the need to strip all the html bumpf away. Might be worth contacting them and suggesting it.

I'm a software developer myself and understand how long it takes to develop something like this, don't shortchange yourself, put a fair price on it. I've paid $12+ for less usefull iphone software.

[Shagpile]

Yeah I doubt airservices would cooperate with a text-only type feed ! As a government organisation, I would have thought that they would be mandated to provide high quality aviation data and services to all australian/international pilots, and as a corollary, be as open and as supportive of this kind of thing as possible since it is extending their services without costing them a cent. It doesn't make very much sense. Oh well ! I did read a bit of that thread about their new copyright policy being fundamentally broken and causing all kinds of problems like the yanks blocking access to their DAFIF (the worlds best free source of EVERY waypoint, navaid, etc etc in the world) because of Australia's copyright policy. I found this out when trying to import a database of all australian airports into my database. I had to use a dafif from a few years ago (there is a good site on the net where you can get all the data you need in xml format - kudos to that guy).

Anyway sorry I can't get it out tonight as I've been at work for 14 hrs and am dead tired, so I'll see if I can get it out friday night to everybody. I've been saving the UDID's everybody has sent me (about 30 so far) so dont stress if I haven't replied.

As a side note, does anybody know what the note about the naips upgrade is all about on airservices site after you login? It seems they are upgrading their website this weekend some time. I hope they haven't changed everything and made my app completely unusable.
As a reminder to everybody who has PM'd me, make sure you give me your UDID number (you get from iTunes when you click on your iPhones serial number), not other numbers. The UDID is a 40 digit alpha-numeric string. Also give me your email address and dont worry if it says "hash unreadable"...I can still read it.

[bjbb]

Super keen to be a tester. currently use co-pilot which is good but lacks some of the features you have developed. A couple of useful things i think would be cool...

as somebody already said, wx radar overlay
moving map with a/c location, track, hdg, gs, time to waypoint etc.
also on the same display, alternates or nearest to (think already done) with direct tracks/hdgs and time to waypoint.
Also like co-pilot the ability to link flight planning, and aicraft specs so you can plan navs etc..

but yeh looks awesome, happy to chip in a couple of bucks for it!
will pm you the udid and email.

cheers

[Shagpile]

http://www.open.com.au/mikem/airservices/copyright1.html

This site has a good summary of my dilemmar and the copyright Airservices has on their data. Unfortunately it appears you have to pay AsA a large licensing fee every year to be able to do this kind of thing, and I am now unsure as to whether I can even distribute this kind of thing for free in fear of being sued or something. It appears to be legally very grey from talking to people. Having not heard back from AsA in 2 months I cannot say for certain their stance, however they may be totally supportive for all I know (I dont want to slag them off without hearing their official reply, although I am guessing it wont be too supportive from previous cases).

Airservices have (rightly so) a concern over the integrity of their data and making sure it is not modified, cut-off or what-not, especially if it is legally used to navigate aircraft. What would be the best solution I would think, as to prevent lots of rip-offs and uncontrolled met/notams being seeped out would be to have, like one user suggested, an "Airservices approved" check or list of requirements that a program must have. These might include "no modifying the data", "no interpreting the data into plain english", "must include error checking on x,y,z input fields", "requires the user login using their AsA login/password", "cannot allow anonymous access" etc etc etc.

People involved in beta testing must obviously remember that the software is experimental and may not work as advertised, and the best way to use it is as a backup to paper copies of met/notams getting sucked out the window, and as a fallback option of getting weather (to increase flight safety) should other methods of getting met/notams fail. It is NOT yet approved by airservices as a valid method of getting aeronautical information legally.

[glekichi]

Did anyone else notice that in the latest lot of DAP amendments the "Copywright Airservices Australia" had been removed from a lot of the new pages?

Are the lobbyists winning this battle? Hope so!

[b_sta]

Understood mate. From a safety perspective I think common sense for most of us would dictate double checking any aeronautical, met data etc through another route in addition to on the iPhone. Of course, that doesn't change any potential copyright issues or lack thereof based on ASA's lack of response, but I assume that for the moment you'll still be distributing as a beta? :)

[Shagpile]

Your right about not having to tell pilots to check their met properly, but I do still have to cover my backside. I wouldn't expect any pilot to rely on any kind of electronic device for anything important (any airbus pilots here!!). Kidding.

Yeah I'll be still giving the beta out...today is last day though (Fri 12 Jun 09). A lawyer friend I spoke to (not in the copyright field though) said she could argue the case either way since its a bit grey. I dont want to risk that though, so It'll be AsA's call.

Oh well, thread is probably almost closed since it seems my hands are tied. I'll email out the beta to people still for my personal testing purposes. Apart from that, enjoy living in Australia.

[Krazy]

Regarding the copyright issue, I think one thing which can make a big difference is what you do with the data. ie., does the iPhone app retrieve directly from ASA using each person's login and parse the HTML directly?
OR, does the iPhone app make a request to YOUR OWN server which then retrieves the data from ASA, parses it, and sends it back to the requesting iPhone?

If the latter, then I would say there are problems with copyright because you are essentially altering the data between the client and ASA. If the former, then it is literally no different to using a web browser to access the ASA web pages (eg., using Safari on the iPhone). A web browser just parses the HTML and displays icons, text, etc. Your app seems to do the same - it's just customised to the particular HTML on the ASA site.

As I say though - a big difference depending on the backend method.

[Shagpile]

Regarding the copyright issue, I think one thing which can make a big difference is what you do with the data. ie., does the iPhone app retrieve directly from ASA using each person's login and parse the HTML directly?

You are correct....the iPhone fetches the data directly from the airservices website (using the same login method and forms as the website does) strips the html off and displays the resulting text. The only thing it does better is save your login name and auto-logs-in. Because of this, you don't get to see the copyright policy after login, however I could quite easily put this on the startup splash screen when the app loads.

[jbr76]

Just sent you an email for BETA testing!

Great work with the app! Very impressed with the screenies!

J.

[compressor stall]

As a few alluded to before me...

You are not onselling the data. You are merely providing a program that allows people to access the same data (also for free) that they would have logged in via naips or the net.

Simply, you have merely provided to conduit to access said data; you are not selling the data.

There should be no breach of copyright.

That's my bushlawyer's opinion anyway!

[Krazy]

Shagpile - I would think that if you show the copyright policy and/or show a little policy of your own removing liability from yourself (ie., saying that the app just fetches data from Airservices Australia (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com) and you're not responsible for it, you don't change it, etc) then I can't imagine much can happen.

You may be aware of the developer in Sydney who put the train timetables into an app - he go asked to remove the app. There were issues at play there, but my point was, he was asked to remove it. Companies will do that prior to jumping in and suing you.

If anything, my guess would be that ASA would simply be worried that you are changing the data. Hence a disclaimer.

On the other hand...I'm not a lawyer (then again, I don't charge like one either!)

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Shagpile,

You absolute legend mate!

That is simply incredible.

I can fully understand why flightplan etc hasnt been integrated yet but the program is looking brilliant and working really well.

Feedback to come to your email soon.

regards,

Nkand

[Shagpile]

Nice - that was probably my first mistake! Better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

Here is the excerpt from AirServices when you login:


NOTE 1. This work is copyright. You may download, display, print and reproduce
this material in unaltered form only for your non-commercial,
personal use or non-commercial use within your organisation.
No part of the material may be reproduced, stored in a
retrieval system, transmitted, redistributed, republished or
commercially exploited in any way without the prior written
permission of Airservices Australia.
Apart from any other use as permitted under the Copyright Act 1968."Reproduced" - yeah kinda, but so does a web-browser.
"stored in a retrieval system" - Im guess they are talking about having my own server, so no.
If they mean my ability to save, then my paper copies are at risk!
"retransmitted" - I'm not doing this, its coming from their website.
"redistributed" - I dont think so, although I'm not sure what they mean by this. I can't think of an example.
"republished" - this is what I'm doing, although again, I'm not sure if they mean changing the data. Since its coming straight from their website to your phone in unaltered form, there is no republishing to be done!
"commercially exploited in any other way" - waaay too broad. This covers what I'm doing if I charge money...even if its to recover costs I guess.

I know everybody is keen to get their mits on this however all I have received are a couple of "wait, out" emails from AsA.
I might be a bit more proactive and give them a call and talk to a human on Monday and see how I go, work schedule permitting.

As for accuracy of information - I submitted a flight plan using internet explorer yesterday and it timed out. I clicked 'back' then submit again, and it worked fine. Upon reading the submitted flight plan readout, I realised 2 fields had cleared themselves (comments and delay). This kind of thing is going to happen with any method of accessing naips, and diligent checking (ie. airmanship) will always have a place.

[Shagpile]

Maybe some kind of poll to indicate support for this kind of thing would be quite persuasive when I finally get in contact with them? [eg. first name/ARN/comment?]

Not sure if there are any free ones online you can do that have ability to hide ARN from public.

[Crescent]

Played briefly with it after I installed it tonight - very impressive, renders perfectly. Love it. Would love it more if ASA gave it the nod. A very useful backup to have available.

[aeropelican]

Excellent, Brilliant, Wonderful.:}

I have been waiting for this for a long long time. Great work! I have sent you a private message.

Thanks. :ok:

[aeropelican]

This is crazy that it took this long for something like this to come about and now ASA is trying to stop it?! As a commercial pilot I know that everything is about speed and accuracy and by using the iPhone both with this app and PilotWiz Pro (and the like) makes everything a whole lot quicker.

Put me down because I definitely support this initiative. If you want my name and ARN feel free to send me an email/private message.

[vee1-rotate]

Likewise, had a quick play tonight and it is simply fantastic...can see it being used everywhere, from GA to to the bigger guys if need be.

Shags, if you need it, I have a contact in ASA...PR rep..not the exact field you'd need to talk to re this sort of stuff, but still a start...let me know

[Shagpile]

Beta testing applications closed (lunchtime, sunday 13Jun09)

I'll be sending out an initial bug fix version that will work on everybody's phone on the list tonight (its a bit patch-work at the moment).

Sorry to anybody who missed out. I can only add 100 devices for ad-hoc testing in my apple account, and I need to save some spots for guys from work.

Hopefully we'll see it on the app store not too far away.


To answer other questions PM'd me - No, I can't make this for nokia as 100% of my code is built on the apple development kit and its 100% incompatible with anything else, and would require a 100% re-write :) Plus you wouldn't get the same look/feel as apple since I am using their fancy buttons, scrolling screens and tab bars etc.

[Shagpile]

and now ASA is trying to stop it?No. - to clarify, their current copyright policy seems to disallow this program, however AsA are yet to formally acknowledge their approval or disapproval.

For all I know, they may tell me its a great idea and put it up ASAP. They may give me a whole bunch of money, a pat on the back and tell me to put it up for free and employ me for a large sum of money to support it (I can only dream!)

But going on other software developers being required to pay licensing fees for this kind of thing, it appears more likely that they will ask for money instead - something I can't afford. They will also likely require "formal" testing by themselves (again, time and money).

All potential outcomes seem to point to more time and money, however if I can convince them that this is no more than a one-web-site browser and it is in the aviation communities interest, then they may come round to the idea and embrace their vision statement:


Our Vision

Airservices Australia will be an efficient provider of air traffic management (http://www.airservices.gov.au/projectsservices/services/atm/default.asp) and aviation rescue and fire fighting services (http://www.airservices.gov.au/projectsservices/services/arff/default.asp) with an international reputation for excellence in safety, innovation and environmental performance.
Our Challenges
Delivering Excellent Core Performance - we will continue to meet our regulatory and legislated obligations and to improve the quality and cost-effectiveness of our core services
Building a High Achieving Organisation - we will develop our people, leadership and capabilities
Delivering the Future - we will meet the challenges of the future and position for next generation innovation and technology.I especially like point 3.... and "cost-effectiveness" - well, there is nothing more cost effective than other software developers doing your job for free!

[Shagpile]

there is nothing more cost effective than other software developers doing your job for free!Sorry, other than other software developers paying you money to do your job for free!

[Curved Approach]

Is it just me or does A->B only bring up the departure and destination I can't seem to get any enroute ports to display.....

[tmpffisch]

Did you have a runway length specified?

[Shagpile]

Is it just me or does A->B only bring up the departure and destination I can't seem to get any enroute ports to display.....I have a database full of australian airports as follows:

ICAO ident, lat, long, longest runway length.


It draws a great circle between the two points and gets all runways within x miles (including within an x radius around A and B).

_______________________
|
| A------------------B
|______________________|

If your airport doesn't come up, it may not be in my database, which is derived from an older 2006 DAFIF. This is why it should be used with caution, as I find this tool is best for finding diverts I hadn't though of yet, rather than for finding them.

[flog]

Sweet as application Shag - I only wish I had have bought my Macbook faster so I could have beat you to it :-)

"redistributed" - I dont think so, although I'm not sure what they mean by this. I can't think of an example.
"republished" - this is what I'm doing, although again, I'm not sure if they mean changing the data. Since its coming straight from their website to your phone in unaltered form, there is no republishing to be done!
"commercially exploited in any other way" - waaay too broad. This covers what I'm doing if I charge money...even if its to recover costs I guess.


I think the fact that you're actually getting the user to put in their own username and password, and that you're not storing anything anywhere, means you're acting very much just like a Browser does in accessing the data.

Mate, I think you're covered. BUT that's just IMHO.

Theoritically I can get the data and use it via a telnet session to port 80 on their server, so any means that uses the published interfaces (i.e. the web site) to access the data is fair game.

Cheers,
Flog.

[Shagpile]

Yeah personally, I agree. To play Mr. plaintiff though, telnet and web browsers are used for other things, where as my app can only be used for the one thing. We'll just have to wait for the response.

I'd like to find out what happened with the guy who did the Sydney train timetable thing and got taken to court though. It would be interesting to see whether his app worked the same way.

[RAAus_Pilot]

What's the latest Shags?

[Shagpile]

I'm just in discussion with AsA at the moment. I'll keep people posted if/when we come to an agreement.

[flog]

I'd like to find out what happened with the guy who did the Sydney train timetable thing and got taken to court though. It would be interesting to see whether his app worked the same way.

Expect to see him working for the company that wins the NSW transport data management tender that was closed a few months ago...I know he was offered jobs by most of the bidders during the tender process (his timing was very good - well done on that count :-)

[lightstorm3576]

Where can i get this app to test? sounds great so far.
what about vnc and wac charts working with the gps side of things

keep up the good work

lightstorm

[Shagpile]

Hi,

sorry beta testing closed. As for vnc, etc with the gps - that is a separate app.

The person doing that will have the same copyright issues as this though.

[Roger Greendeck]

Shagpile,

You are a legend for putting this together. Not sure what if any discussions you have had with ASA but it would seem to my (perhaps naive) view that they should actively support this and perhaps buy it from you so you are not out of pocket and then dist it free just like NAIPS for windows. Either way I would have no problem coughing up a few beer tokens for such an App.

As far as suggestions go, I know a full SPFIB might be too much but what about an SPFIB update. Normally there is not much that changes between sectors and this minimises having to cull TAFs and notams you already have.

[Shagpile]

Thanks for the feedback, especially from the beta testers. I've had a play around with different style text views (the web view just doesn't work).

I think my priority will be doing SPFIB first (both submit and update, but probably only single stage). I can see how that would be the most beneficial for people doing the same leg lots of times.

[VH-XXX]

Got my new 3GS today.

Happy to test for you too.......

Can't get internet tethering to work, or even appear on the phone, pretty annoying.

[jbr76]

Can't get internet tethering to work, or even appear on the phone, pretty annoying.

What carrier are you with?

I am with Telstra NextG and I have got tethering/mms working.

Telstra currently do not offer tethering at this stage.

Optus offer tethering but at an added cost of $10/month.

Reply back with your carrier and I can help you out :E

[Aerolex]

FYI guys,

The new and older iPhones are not fully compatable with Optus 3G/HSPDA network. You will have no 3G coverage in rural Australia unless you are in a major regional city like Ballarat or Newcastle. You also may not have 3G coverage in capitals such as Darwin. This can be pretty uncool for GA and regional pilots!!!

If you want maximum 3G coverage for your iPhone go with Telstra.

Pls pass this on to anyone considering a purchase as Optus won't be giving you your money back when you find it doesn't do what you want it to....

P.S. I have absolutely no links or financial interest in the big 'T'. I actually dislike them a lot. But after many, many years in the mobile industry I will admit their Next-G network is pretty schmick!
P.P.S. Specs for new iPhone here: Apple - iPhone - Technical Specifications (http://www.apple.com/au/iphone/specs.html) Note absence of UMTS/HSDPA 900 - that's what Optus are using in the bush.

[woftam]

Aerolex, couldn't agree more re Telstra NextG. I stuck with Telstra PURELY due to their coverage (loathe them otherwise).
A smart phone without coverage is a DUMB phone !!!!! (or a paper weight). ;)

[mcgrath50]

The cost seems very prohibitive, currently I spend about $30 a month on my mobile usage, with a iPhone that would be nearer the $100 mark.

How do you guys get around it as I would really like one, but its too expensive - T's $30 plan has very high charges?

[jbr76]

I am on a $79 Telstra NextG Cap

That gives you $450 worth of voice & sms to fixed lines and mobiles

An extra $100 worth of voice calls between Telstra mobiles

I was on a $60 plan on the iPhone but went into a T-Shop last week & successfully swapped over to the $79 cap - just had to pay the 'ETC' (Early Termination Charge) from my old plan/contract as I had a further 14 months to go (was less than $500)

I also spend an extra $10 on a datapack which gives 150mb worth of data.

That combined with internet tethering between my laptop via USB or Bluetooth makes for a versatile on-the-go mobile broadband platform :ok:

After owning an iPhone for the last 10 months I would NOT go near any other smartphone ... EVER .... PERIOD. It is just far too good :E

[Shagpile]

I just tested the app on nextG last night airborne.

I got reception 50nm off the coast of Sydney at F160 and managed to download updated weather, although it took a few tries. (I was impressed!)

Over the sydney coastline at F220, I got 5 bars and downloaded the wx in about 3 seconds.

[The Green Goblin]

Guy's

I'd hate to be the bearer of bad (or good) news, but with an Iphone you can open safari, go straight to the airservices pilot briefin website, log in and download whatever you wish to your screen. I use this all the time, I even use the BOM weather radars occasionally enroute If I need to.

:ok:

[Shagpile]

but with an Iphone you can open safari, go straight to the airservices pilot briefin website, log in and download whatever you wish to your screen

You are correct.

However it takes a lot of time, is fiddly, you can't save things and it takes more bandwidth as you have to load the whole site including pictures. You also have to login each time you use it.

[The Green Goblin]

If you're are just using it to update a brief then jotting it by hand on the back of the weather report is my usual practice.

Whatever works, and it's free :)

[Shagpile]

Absolutely! I still use paper at work.

Successive versions of this will be free anyway, so don't be too concerned about price. People who pay initially will get free upgrades and always have the latest features. (plus get it first until the next edition comes out, which could be months after).

[jbr76]

Guy's

I'd hate to be the bearer of bad (or good) news, but with an Iphone you can open safari, go straight to the airservices pilot briefin website, log in and download whatever you wish to your screen. I use this all the time, I even use the BOM weather radars occasionally enroute If I need to.

Yes you can - but Safari is fiddly in itself, let alone trying to manipulate it whilst flying. Not to mention having to expand/zoom the screen to get the font size right. Plus the load time is a hell of alot slower.

I will stick with Shagpile on this one - iPhone Apps simplifies all above into a neat zippy little interface. Less load on CPU = better speed loading content to view :}

ps: There is a neat app called BOMRadar which simplifies having to load BOM radar pages via Safari too - go figure :hmm:

[Shagpile]

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1161/textviewhorizontal.png
Update - Added landscape viewing mode, and an update button.

Things are going well with Airservices, hopefully it will hit the streets sooner than later.

[RAAus_Pilot]

Nice work Shags, that's looking great.

Another issue with accessing NAIPS through Safari is that if you wish to reopen the page, it sometimes wants to update the page and logs you out.

Sooner rather than later sounds good mate!

[jbr76]

Fantastic going Shagpile. Any hints as to when this will be released on iTunes?

[krankin]

I'm with optus and my signal drops above 2500 or just past cape shanck, some of the other boys at work are on telstra (not iphone) and can get signal nearly all the way over to king island. Optus sucks for enroute bom radar im sorry to say. Would be DAMN handy sometimes!

K

[b_sta]

Great stuff Shagpile, the updated landscape viewing mode is tops, makes it just that little bit easier to use which is definitely appreciated. I take it Airservices aren't against the idea of releasing the app then?

[RAAus_Pilot]

I've been told that Optus will be increasing their 3G coverage by the end of the year. Not to sure how good that info is but we'll see what happens.

[Curved Approach]

Has anyone Beta Testing had trouble with Optus MMS (or any other carrier) since installing the latest update??

It might just be coincidental but I am unable to send MMS (I can receive) but when I try to send it fails and I get the red exclamation marks to click and then try again.

Troubleshooting with Optus at the moment, I have removed all the adhoc provisioning and the Naips from both iPhone and iTunes and restored carrier settings and this has not solved my MMS issues so perhaps coincidental..........

[Shagpile]

Optus will be increasing their 3g coverage by the end of the year

yeah the optus yesG network is 900mhz which is not compatible with iPhone which only does 850/2100mhz.

Telstra nextG is 850mhz and the existing optus 3g signal you are getting is the shorter range 2100mhz in the city centres etc only.

Just waiting on AsA feedback which should be early next week (4th jul ish).

Sorry if I have to be vague but things are happening and as soon as I have a definitive result I'll post it up here with a more solid timeline.

[ResumeOwnNav]

A question for those iPhone users on the Telstra NextG network.

How do you find the coverage of the iPhone in remote/poor signal areas compared with other NextG handsets?

Sorry for the thread drift.

Nav.

[VH-XXX]

Nav, we went through this today with iPhone versus STD type Nokia model. Found that iPhone was frequently saying network was lost but nokia has some if not full service, however when we tried to call on nokia the call would not go through. In summary we decided that the iPhone reception indicators were more truthful. Trip was a good test from lake eyre to Melbourne.

(posted by iPhone)

[Shagpile]

Yeah this is getting off topic, but phone companies can insert their own code into phones to manipulate the battery and reception indicators. Research has shown that people are more likely to make a call if they think they have more battery left, hence the reason it stays at full then suddenly appears empty.

They are worse at doing this in the US, but the default settings are still bad.

Expect a yes/no from AsA either today or tomorrow. (expecting yes).

[ResumeOwnNav]

Cheers VH-XXX & Shagpile

[Shagpile]

Received permission from AsA today, and will post onto apple store ASAP.

It usually takes a few weeks for Apple to test and approve apps though.

[RAAus_Pilot]

Well done mate, that's great news! I look forward to using it!

[tmpffisch]

Congrats Shagpile. AsA made a smart decision.

If there's anything I can do to help, you know where I am.

[jbr76]

Received permission from AsA today, and will post onto apple store ASAP.
It usually takes a few weeks for Apple to test and approve apps though.

AWESOME NEWS!

Give yourself a well deserved pat on the back for your time & effort!

Thanks Again Shags!

[glekichi]

Congratulations mate.

Still waiting on my iphone, but I guarantee it will be the first app I download.

Now, time to start working on a BOM radar image with GPS overlay of present position!!!

(It's been done with Google Earth!)

[fixa24]

Well done shags! good news...

I'm having issues with the app on my phone since i installed OS 3.0.
When i try to install through itunes it pops up an error saying can't install.. yes i have unzipped the files. I have tried deleting mobile provisioning on the phone and trying again but no joy. It was working before the update. Any ideas?

[compressor stall]

Good news. Let us know when Apple have approved it. I'll buy it. :ok:

[Shagpile]

Uploaded to Apple store, awaiting review.

Initial price will be $7.99 then I'll reduce price and release free versions with less functionality as I write more features in. People who buy now will get all updates free. I have had a long think about this price, and I think its a good balance between allowing it to be affordable to everybody & also the fact that its actually an useful app! (I now use it day to day).

Next planned features will be flight plan submission and SPFIB creation (currently only does SPFIB retrieval).

Thanks to everybody who helped test etc. Also thanks to those guys who helped out with contacting Airservices!

Sorry to those people who couldn't get the beta working on their phones. This wont be a problem with the app store version as its a lot simpler. I dont have the time to recompile the beta version for everybody who has a problem (it takes about 20 minutes to recompile and send out again).

Cheers !

[RAAus_Pilot]

$7.99 is pretty bloody cheap for what this is going to be able to provide, nice work mate! I'm in!

[Shagpile]

$7.99 is pretty bloody cheap for what this is going to be able to provide, nice work mate! I'm in!

Damn, I should have charged more !

[RAAus_Pilot]

Damn, I should have charged more !

hahahaha too late.....tooooo laaaate!!! :ugh:

[Ultralights]

i think $7.99 is good, anything over the $10 mark and i would be looking at other options, and that is, accessing NAIPS through safari and the usual internet access, as i do now.. but for $7.99, then i will probably download it.

remember when selling something that has alternatives, then you cant afford to be overly optimistic about your pricing, especially when the alternative is perceived to be somewhat cheaper... what you are really selling is the convenience.

[Shagpile]

A few people are having trouble finding it on the app store, as it isn't there yet!

It will be called 'NAIPS'. Apple have to do a quick quality control etc with every app that goes on, which takes time (usually about 1-2 weeks I have been told. So expect it up from about Jul 20th, thats my best guess).

[vee1-rotate]

awesome result shags, fantastic news! I have no doubt this app will be a big seller. My apologies for not being able to help more in the beta testing as work and study has held me back...will definately be purchasing once it's made available in the app store :ok:

[Shagpile]

Cool thanks guys.

There also seems to be another guy who has released a naips app exactly the same time as me! He is selling it for $2.50 and its called OzPilot. Check it out here:
Ben Trengrove OzPilot NAIPS iPhone Application (http://bentrengrove.com/?p=3)

Initial looks, it doesn't have all the same functions but might appeal to people with simpler requirements, like location briefing.

It will be awesome if we see a whole bunch of innovation with stuff like this as more apps = more choice and drives people to make better products.

[RAAus_Pilot]

Hey Shags, I don't think his ever got released because it's not in the Apps Store.

[Shagpile]

Yeah he uploaded it to apple the same date as me for approval. Both are just waiting now on apple to have a quick play with and release.

[RAAus_Pilot]

By the looks of it your will be NAIPS based where as his looks to have a few of the NAIPS functions.

Will be interesting to see how they both go on release.

[equal]

bit late in but nice work shags. this will be very useful and i think the price is right. i looked at doing this a while back but gave up, glad to see someone put in the time and effort!

[Shagpile]

Bit more info on the copyright front if anybody is interested.

Ice TV - The Law Report - 5 May 2009 (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/lawreport/stories/2009/2560086.htm)
IceTV Pty Limited v Nine Network Australia Pty Limited [2009] HCA 14 (22 April 2009) (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/high_ct/2009/14.html)

About 3 months ago (22 Apr 09) the High Court issued a ruling with a particularly relevant case of Channel 9 vs IceTV. Its pretty similar to this whole thing.

IceTV won the appeal against the federal court as Channel9 were suing them over using their own TV guide to update the IceTV guide.

If you read the abc interview transcript link above, the law professor talks about the copyright on information:

"Information per se is not protected by copyright, it's only the expression of information which is protected by copyright, and in the view of the High Court, when you've got a situation where the information can really only be expressed in one way, then that means you're effectively not going to have copyright in that information or the expression of it. So for example, it's very hard to say anything other than Channel 9 News is on a 6pm, and so the information and the expression of the information being one and the same, means that there is no copyright protection for that information."

Also......

" Well I think just about any document which is really no more than a bare statement of the relevant facts. So we've already discussed for example the White Pages, where it's just an alphabetical list of names with phone numbers; things like football fixtures, Collingwood against Essenden at the MCG on 25 April, that sort of information. It's very hard to say it any other way, and so if you apply the Ice decision, you're left with the consequence that the AFL really doesn't have any significant copyright in relation to its fixtures. We could take other examples. Maybe public transport timetables, all sorts of things no longer, I think, have copyright protection or any significant copyright protection in this country."


That is from "Mark Davison, professor of law at Monash University and Special Counsel with Knightsbridge Lawyers".



The difficulty for AsA would be convincing the court that Met/Notams are creatively composed, as there is a very clear layout in GEN about the format these need to be in. The Channel 9/IceTV ruling also took into account the effort required by Channel9 to compose their TV guide, but ruled that that still did not contribute to holding creative copyright.



Anyway food for thought as this does not affect me as they have sent me an agreement with a few reasonable caveats. (plus I don't have any inclination of ever having to put this to test in court!).

[jbr76]

Heya Shags,

Any hints when iTunes are going to make the app available to purchase?? :D

J.

[Shagpile]

Yeah not 100% sure since it's beyond my control, but I suspect a few more days.

[Shagpile]

new website: naips.wordpress.com (http://naips.wordpress.com)

Also check out pilotcurrency.wordpress.com (http://pilotcurrency.wordpress.com) if you are interested (something else I wrote for myself).

[planejane]

It's a great app.

Thanks and good luck with it all.

PJ
:ok:

[Shagpile]

Cool - NAIPS is "Ready for Sale" according to Apple. I think it appears on the app store within about a day.

Edit: Try this link until then:

iTunes Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=323268113&mt=8)

[Ted Nugent]

Shagpile you legend mate!

I've just downloaded the app via the link on my iPhone and it worked a treat!

Great work mate, the app looks good!

Cheers Ted! :ok:

[RAAus_Pilot]

Big thumbs up Shags, very nice work indeed!!!
:ok:

[equal]

just downloaded it! looks great. should save some paper with the weather forecast!!!

excellent work mate :ok:

[Agent86]

Shags,
Another satisfied customer of V1.0
Running on Touch with V3.0
I can scroll but not zoom the output ...Is this a Touch problem or iPhone as well. Sometimes my eyesight needs something bigger than the normal font:\

Any thoughts on adding a print facility? Lots of printers have bluetooth now.
You don't promote yourself enough :ok: the splash screen disappears at about the right rate to see it but not have to wait for it to disappear but...how about have it avail in settings as an "About NAIPS" with the version/date/web address

Do we use this thread as a wishlist/bugfix contact or do you want to go off pprune.:ok:

[Shagpile]

how about have it avail in settings as an "About NAIPS" with the version/date/web address
Good idea. I'll put that in the next update.

I can scroll but not zoom the output
Yeah you can't. I tried using a web-view (which is zoomable) but all the text looked awful and was harder to read. I tried to make the text size a compromise between readability and fitting most of it on the screen.

Next version I'll look at putting text size in the settings.

Do we use this thread as a wishlist/bugfix contact or do you want to go off pprune
Check out naips.wordpress.com (http://naips.wordpress.com) or contact me at rowanwillson[a-t)gmail.com

I'll keep monitoring this thread though and try to reply whenever possible.

Any thoughts on adding a print facility? Lots of printers have bluetooth now.

I'll also check this out - I dont know if the Apple SDK allows it, but its a great idea. (hence the reason for this thread).

Gotta go take the dog down the beach for now, I'll answer any questions tonight. For now I have an FAQ on naips.wordpress.com which should answer most things.

Thanks for all the feedback!

[Shagpile]

Any thoughts on adding a print facility? Lots of printers have bluetooth now.

Just checked, they don't have this yet.

[Got the horn]

Looks pretty good. Any chance someone out there is making a similar app for IFIS in NZ??

[Shagpile]

I just used naips and it worked for the first 5 codes I put in: NZAA, NZWB, NZCH, NZDN, NZNV. It got met for aukland and christchurch, and notams for all of them.

It probably works the same way where you can get Sydney, Melbourne etc from the US weather programs, so yeah - somebody would probably need to write their own program for IFIS.

[Shagpile]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qGuXdG5FxBs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qGuXdG5FxBs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Tempo]

fantastic app......well done.

[Sunfish]

Another 6kg of laptop and charger can stay behind!

Great work

[dreamjob]

Will this replace the need to carry a printed copy of the weather? In case you were to get ramped.

[Shagpile]

Airservices made me put the following in the program:

"...Not for operational use, users of this product should log on to Airservices Australia - Flight Briefing - Pilot Briefing Services (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/brief) to check the accuracy of any information obtained in using this application".

I read that as - don't rely 100% on this product and carry paper backups. However in saying that, if you don't have access to any of that, then iPhone met/notams is better than no met/notams at all! I personally use it to read met on the way to work, then get a quick update in the cockpit before I takeoff on a long flight. That way I can capture any changes since I printed it an hour before. You can also download updated met airborne if you want.

I don't see any problem in using all tools available to your advantage to get the most accurate, up-to-date information, however remember there are other ways to get weather such as FLIGHTWATCH.

Also what you are seeing on your screen is the direct output of the page that airservices displays. Straight from their computers to your screen. All I do is cut out the html up to the <pre> tag and whack it up, so the text you are reading has not been modified at all and is exactly the same as visiting the airservices website.

[compressor stall]

Notwithstanding basic airmanship, but the rules are as follows:

CAR 239 Planning of flight by pilot in command
(1) Before beginning a flight, the pilot in command shall study all
available information appropriate to the intended operation,
and, in the cases of flights away from the vicinity of an
aerodrome and all I.F.R. flights, shall make a careful study of:
(a) current weather reports and forecasts for the route to be
followed and at aerodromes to be used;
(b) the airways facilities available on the route to be followed
and the condition of those facilities;


Nothing about carrying the weather in hard copy. Just as long as you have studied it.

Shags - can ASA tell via IP addresses how you logged in? Can it tell the different using your iphone safari browser and your program? :8

[Bevan666]

Shagpile - just bought my copy - shiny stuff. Great work!
:ok:

Bevan..

[Shagpile]

Shags - can ASA tell via IP addresses how you logged in? Can it tell the different using your iphone safari browser and your program?

IP - Short answer - No. Long answer: they can log it, but I tried doing a traceroute on my phones IP address and the furthest it got to was telstr383.lnk.telstra.net.

Second point - The user agent string I send with naips is "Mozilla/3.0 (compatible)" or something, so it will appear as if you are accessing their site with Firefox. Mobile Safari sends a huge long string starting with "Mozilla/5.0...." which is how websites know to display in mobile format (if they support it).

[Pretzal]

Purchased!

Only too happy to support such a great job on the App. Thanks for allowing me to be part of the beta testing and would volunteer willingly for any further testing. Well done Shags! I hope you make a killing for all your hard work.

[Crescent]

Also purchased, thanks for letting me beta test - fantastic app and still worth every cent in my opinion. Hope it returns the cost of the sdk and some coldies as well. All the best with having it on the app store.

[dreamjob]

Quick question, how much data is downloaded (approx) when using NAIPS?

[Shagpile]

Something else I made for myself - just submitted this to the app store (should be available 25Jul09). Only took a few days to make so I'll release this one for free.
Pilot Currency iPhone app (http://pilotcurrency.wordpress.com)
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3392/iphone3gvertsrgb0609.jpg

[Shagpile]

Quick question, how much data is downloaded (approx) when using NAIPS?

Bugger all, about 3kb for an average sized briefing I would think

[RAAus_Pilot]

Hey Shags, can you also add your own customs currencies with that other app?

[Shagpile]

Yeah thats just some examples I put in there. It starts blank and you put whatever you want.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5764/screenshot2009071811073.png

[RAAus_Pilot]

Awesome, will definatly keep an eye out for it then

[jcorney]

finally something that makes it worth me getting an pre-paid itunes store card

nice work

[Tidbinbilla]

Folks, as this is now a commercial concern, we have to bring this thread to a close.

Further details available at: NAIPS for iPhone (http://naips.wordpress.com/)
:)