View Full Version : VHF coverage Birdsville to Alice Springs
PlankBlender
8th Jun 2009, 01:25
Anyone done this leg? Planning to make the trip from BN to Alice probably in July and wondering what to plan for..
Birdsville TREBL Alice looks good on the PCA, only a couple of very small gaps in the VHF coverage at 10,000 feet, but the direct route Birdsville Alice probably wouldn't be advisable, especially on an IFR plan.
Alternatively, I could take some oxygen and go up higher (wouldn't mind testing the actual service ceiling of the Archer, apparently my model can go up to 15,000..), anyone know the cost of a simple (pilot only) system and what coverage is like at 12,000 or 14,000? And yes I realise I might be stuck lower if the QNH is really low..
Cheers :ok:
ForkTailedDrKiller
8th Jun 2009, 01:31
PB, I have done Birdsville direct Alice in the Bo. At this time of year it should not be a problem to do as I did. Depart Birdsville on an IFR plan if that is your thing - downgrade to VFR and nominate a sartime for arrival Alice before you loose VHF comms - then when you are receiving Centre clearly inbound to Alice, upgrade back to IFR and cancel your sartime.
I would have been at A100 and would be very surprised if you can keep continuous two-way comms at that height.
Its a very lonely, but interesting, bit of country through there.
Dr :8
Capt Fathom
8th Jun 2009, 01:49
And heaven forbid, should the unthinkable happen, the overflying airliners will be on the Center freq (and 121.5). So keep the frequencies update to date as you go.
Help is a mere relay away!
Desert Duck
8th Jun 2009, 04:54
Generally get a nice westerly airstream - the higher you go the better it gets.
Will be good for the trip home tho.
Jabawocky
8th Jun 2009, 11:04
Capt Fathom
A very good piece of advice there! Not many people talk about such things here!
J:ok:
apache
8th Jun 2009, 12:09
yes.... just (try?) call QANTAS on 121.5 ..... all your prayers will be answered.
illusion
8th Jun 2009, 13:34
Qantas is old hat- a lot more Jetstar flights to talk to.
Ovation
8th Jun 2009, 23:27
On an IFR plan your are required to maintain continuous communications - period. Quite often when VHF is marginal or there are gaps in the coverage I've done exactly what the FTDK did, and there's never been any problems.
BUT:
By using another aircraft to relay position reports i.e. one that's higher with VHF coverage or another aircraft in company with HF to relay for you, there's a possibility the nice folks at CASA will hit you with an ESIR (Electronic Safety Incident Report).
ForkTailedDrKiller
8th Jun 2009, 23:43
On an IFR plan your are required to maintain continuous communications - period. Quite often when VHF is marginal or there are gaps in the coverage I've done exactly what the FTDK did, and there's never been any problems.
BUT:
By using another aircraft to relay position reports i.e. one that's higher with VHF coverage or another aircraft in company with HF to relay for you, there's a possibility the nice folks at CASA will hit you with an ESIR (Electronic Safety Incident Report)
In the past the Centre guys and gals have made a bigger deal about this than seems to be the case in more recent times. Two VHF "deaf" spots I deal with regularly are between Normanton and Townsville and between Longreach and Townsville. Previously I have done as indicated in an earlier post and downgraded to VFR then upgraded again when VHF comms were re-established. Recently however, Centre has offered me a sartime for my next position report - by which time VHF comms are expected to be re-established. Time is the "deaf" zone is only 30 min or so.
Did the downgrade/upgrade thing last month when crossing the Barkly Tableland enroute to Darwin. The "deaf" zone on that occassion was more than an hour.
No big deal if the weather allows for safe VFR.
I am reluctant to rely on overflying RPT to relay for me. If you can't raise someone, you will likely have some explaining to do.
Dr :8
Howard Hughes
9th Jun 2009, 01:40
On an IFR plan your are required to maintain continuous communications - period.
So how does that work in TIBA?:ooh:
Apologies for hijacking your thread PlankBlender.
PS: In Central Australia if you stay low Westbound and go high Eastbound you can generally get a tailwind both ways!:ok:
Joker 10
9th Jun 2009, 03:44
TIBA Fire up the trusty HF
Hey Doc:
When you downgrade to VFR do you revert to VFR altitudes or is Centre happy for you to remain at IFR levels until you re-establish VHF contact?
The reason for my asking is that I'm planning a flight from BDV direct to AYE (IFR) in a VHF only aircraft and, like Plankbender, I anticipate being out of VHF coverage for a while and was wondering as to the best method of planning.
Ovation
9th Jun 2009, 05:38
QSK:
When you downgrade to VFR do you revert to VFR altitudes or is Centre happy for you to remain at IFR levels until you re-establish VHF contact?
You are supposed to revert to VFR levels.
ForkTailedDrKiller
9th Jun 2009, 07:34
When you downgrade to VFR do you revert to VFR altitudes or is Centre happy for you to remain at IFR levels until you re-establish VHF contact?
QSK - I generally change to a VFR level, but on the odd occasion when that would put me in the middle of the CU layer or below the inversion and there is no appropriate VFR level available I have remained at the IFR level and advised Centre in my call that I am maintaining "non-standard X thousand".
Birdsville to Ayers Rock direct - that would be an interesting leg!
Cheers
Dr :8
eternity
9th Jun 2009, 08:20
PlankBlender,
Birdsville - AS might be through a designated remote area.
Not too sure about private flights, but with charter (even VFR), you need the HF on board.
Might be worth checking that out if you don't have a HF.
ForkTailedDrKiller
9th Jun 2009, 09:10
Birdsville - AS might be through a designated remote area
Ya thunk!
Not too sure about private flights, but with charter (even VFR), you need the HF on board.
As I read it - mandatory carriage of ELT and survival gear only!
Dr :8
PlankBlender
9th Jun 2009, 09:46
Yup, the Dr has it right, AIP GEN 1.5 1.1 mandates HF in remote areas only if no ELT is carried.
Thanks for all the great advice here, can't wait to go on the next big trip!
Rojer Wilco
10th Jun 2009, 01:55
Soon after your departure report from Birdsville, Centre will advise you that you'll lose VHF comms at time zz, and won't regain them until Steel (reporting point). Simply downgrade to VFR (yes, obviously you'll have to change to a VFR altitude) nominate a sartime for steel, and then re-establish IFR at steel.
Dead simple.
BTW If you've got an ELT, no HF required. If you're doing a fair bit of outback work, you should consider hiring a satphone for Pilot Briefing and SARTIME contact. I hired one recently when the Chieftain's HF antenna downgraded itself to a clothesline. PM me if you want the details of a good satphone hire company I've recently used.
I reckon you're pretty brave donning the old oxygen mask. It's outside of my acceptible risk area!
ForkTailedDrKiller
10th Jun 2009, 02:01
I reckon you're pretty brave donning the old oxygen mask. It's outside of my acceptible risk area!
Any risk is easily managed IMHO, if you monitor your oxygen saturation, carry a full mask in addition to the nasal cannula, and don't go above FL180 - the latter being a given for a Piper Warrior, I suspect.
Dr :8