Potential Amish Hasidic Hijack foiled by alert nervous pax not saying anything

[greggx101]

I dont know how common this is but on my VS flight EWR to LHR we had Amish who, as soon as the belt signs went off procededed to L and R doors in my cabin, stood facing the doors and started there nodding/prayer ritual with there hands near the handle area. Went on for about 5-10 minutes.

This obviously casued some nervousness amongst other PAX, cabin crew seemed not to care and carried on with the service.

Just wondering if it would be prudent to either.

1. Let other pax know by announcment this is what they are doing.
2. Make them do it in the toilet.
3. Dissalow them from doing it on flights.

Any one else seen this ?

[Number34]

.............troll?

[dubh12000]

Amish? On an airyplane? Would be a first for me.........

[greggx101]

Excuse my ignorance - didnt know Amish didnt fly. LOL..I assumed they were Amish by there dress but further research maybe they were Jews, hope i havent upset anyone and no not a Troll Ive better things to do...

Whatever they were they still made the passengers feel uncomfortable.

[shobakker]

Gregg - wait till you fly to Tel Aviv.....;)

[rsuggitt]

Most likely Hasidic Jews.

[Bealzebub]

There are many cultures and religions that have ritual observances at particular times of the day. If these people are not proving to be a safety hazard or causing undue inconvenience what is your problem? If you are ignorant of these practices, you should learn.

No it would not be "prudent" to make an announcenment, nor would it be good manners. Make them do it in the toilet? :rolleyes:
Disallow them from doing "it" on flights. Why, who are they harming?

Anyone else seen this? Probably most people with any worldly experience.

[SNS3Guppy]

The Amish don't tend to fly, don't pray like that, and have never been known for their tenacity in terrorist actions by bringing down airliners.

Before we go any further, we can stop, as clearly you had no idea what it was that you were seeing.

[PaperTiger]

Disallow them from doing "it" on flights. Why, who are they harming?Define harm. Apparently several other passengers (or Phillistines if you prefer) were disturbed by the antics.

Regular readers will know I have little time for public displays of mumbo-jumbo; there are many rules regarding air travel which would not be applied or acceptable anywhere else. Why should religion get a free pass ? Religion or something very like it is actually why we have to have all these security rules.

It's an airplane, not a church, synagogue, temple, whatever. :*

[Bealzebub]

harm
verb
to hurt someone or damage something

No it isn't a church or synagogue. Nevertheless they will provide meals that cater to peoples religeous requirements. If somebody wishes to stretch their limbs in an appropriate location, or cover their ears and bow a few times without interfering with anybody else, it is hardly unreasonable. Do you need "reasonable" defining as well?

[greggx101]

Before we go any further, we can stop, as clearly you had no idea what it was that you were seeing.

THATS RIGHT Guppy - Me and fellow travellers didnt have any idea what we was seeing, thats the problem, it wasnt normal behaviour, thats why I Question.

So next time i see someone doing something a little "different" on an a/c other than sitting in there seats, going to bathroom or stretching there legs, shall I take it as being normal, not raise any questions, show concern or raise a brow ? I dont think so -Thats not how we do things in this day and age.

It's an airplane, not a church, synagogue, temple, whatever.

Completely agreed.

[Bealzebub]

It's an airplane, not a church, synagogue, temple, whatever. Or a restaurant, bar, cinema, shopping venue, kindergarten.......?:hmm:
Perhaps a bit of tolerance and common sense?

[Skipness One Echo]

Was gobsmacked at the galley full of Mecca facing muslims at morning prayer coming back DFW-LHW on an AAL B763 last month! Seemed a little odd considering the bloke next to me was happy to pray discreetly in his seat!

[strake]

There is a an opinion in Saudi Arabia which says that overt displays of religious activity in an environment which does not normally lend itself to such, is unnecessary and possibly "showing off".

Neither the Muslim or Jewish faiths require such actions, anymore than as a Catholic, I would be expected to fall on my knees in prayer before going to sleep on my (Immaculate) Virgin flat bed.

[Rainboe]

Gregg, if youo're going to communicate with the greater world, please learn the difference betwixt there and their, concentrate on grammar and spelling, and learn to differentiate your religions before complaining. The poor old Amish have copped your accusation- they were not on your aeroplane!

[Capot]

Whoever they were, Amish, Hassidic Jews, Muslims, 7th Day Adventists, Church of God, C of E, Wee Frees, Canadians, they were unashamed of their religion and saying their prayers.

So what, forget the instant outrage at anyone doing something you deem out of the ordinary because, diddums, it makes you "uncomfortable".

Read a book, watch a film, do a crossword, in short get on with your life and let them get on with theirs.

[hellsbrink]

I drink Guinness as part of my devotion to the great god himself, Flatulus.

I wonder if Gregg would feel so nervous if I started my "chants" whilst in the seat next to him?

[Rhyspiper]

According to the holy book of flatulus it is customary to "chant" on your siblings head.

[hellsbrink]

As if I would let that :mad: near me..........

Guess it'll have to be Gregg's head then. Then he won't moan about the "Amish that'll never get on a plane" praying beside the doors.....

[Glamgirl]

The passenger in question (the praying one) may have told the cabin crew what they were intending to do, and therefore the crew let him get on with it. I have this on board on a fairly regular basis, and I don't have a problem with it. If anyone started praying in such a fashion without "warning", I'd just keep an eye out without making it obvious.

I'm not a religious person myself, but I appreciate that others are. Some like to pray in their seats, some do it on the floor by the galley, some don't pray at all. We're all different.

I'm wondering if these passengers who were so worried, pointed the episode out to the crew? If I was on board as a passenger and something disturbed me (so to speak) about another passenger, whether it was praying, drinking, swearing or other behavours, I would talk to the crew - mainly for reassurance.

Gg

[greggx101]

Gregg, if youo're going to communicate with the greater world, please learn the difference betwixt there and their, concentrate on grammar and spelling, and learn to differentiate your religions before complaining. The poor old Amish have copped your accusation- they were not on your aeroplane!


WTF have these forums turned in to ?

Didnt realize this was a grammar lesson - Christ Rainboe, flying must be boring - so boring you get home and check posters grammer rather than reply with a friendly informative reply. Im actualy Dyslexic so have a hard time typing and at guessing religions it seems.

[ceeb]

Well said Gregg:ok:

[hellsbrink]

Since when did dyslexia cause a problem recognising different religions?

[Michael SWS]

Im actualy Dyslexic so have a hard time typing and at guessing religions it seems.It is astonishing how many people on internet forums claim to be dyslexic - the proportion must be 10 or 20 times that of the wider population. Most seem to use it as an excuse for poor spelling and/or grammar and careless typing. And I find that a little inconsiderate towards those who actually are affected by that very real condition.

But, yes - my first thought when I read this thread was that it would have been unusual to find Amish on a plane. :)

[SNS3Guppy]

THATS RIGHT Guppy - Me and fellow travellers didnt have any idea what we was seeing, thats the problem, it wasnt normal behaviour, thats why I Question.


It's "my fellow travelers and I," and what "we were seeing," not what "we was seeing."

Prayer isn't normal behavior? It certainly is for practitioners of Hasidic Judiasm.

As for proximity to a door...where the only areas exist that aren't occupied by seats, near a lav and near a door, what do you expect?

But then, you never know. After all, it could have been a secret radical Amish conspiracy. A real threat in the world today, as you know. You're right to question any time you see a possible Amish engaged in this spooky, questionable behavior. You're lucky it wasn't really the Amish, either...because one of them might have turned on you and frankly forgiven you or offered you some hospitality. Scary stuff.

Radical Islamists blow up embassies and hijack aircraft.

Radical Hasidic Jews pray extra hard.

Radical Amish raise barns and plant more corn.

If a good old fashioned barn raising doesn't inspire fear, what possibly could?

[Rainboe]

Amish Liberation Front? Popular Front for the Liberation of Amishland? If you don't give up your aeroplanes and cars and televisions, they will get mildly cross, and stop praying for you (for a little while, while they erect more barns and bake cakes and get the horse and carriage sparkly ready).

If the world needs any religious fundamentalism, we could do with more of that!

If Gregg could get past his 'dyslexia', he should understand they were Jews exercising their religion in peace. The poor old Amish could give lessons on how to exercise religion without ramming it up other people! But ignorance and poor education seems to rule in the UK these days....under the guise of 'dyslexia'. Never seen so many in my life.

[Peter Fanelli]

The Amish do fly, quite often.
Used to often see them coming and going through BWI.
Since the issue has been raised in this thread I think the Amish are a wonderful example of how people with strong views on how life should be lived should live.
They choose to live in their communities the way they want to, they don't try and exclude others from their communities and they don't cause trouble. They don't demand that the host country change their laws to accommodate them and their culture.

Mexicans and Muslims take note.

[flapsforty]

Gregg, your questions have been answered in full, now I have a few questions of my own.
Did you, while the praying was going on, tell one of the flight attendants/stewardesses that you were worried?
If not, why not?
If you did, what answer did you get?

An aircraft is an unusual environment for many people. Unfamiliar sounds & movements, odd things you see and unusual ways of doing things. No shame in asking. FAs are used to questions about anything and everything.
If you are wondering about anything at all on a flight, ASK the FAs. They will answer you there and then, or ask the pilots via the interphone if your question is a 'pilot question'.
Either way, it will make your flight a lot more relaxed. :ok:

As said already, prayer is fine, in front of a door is fine too. (10 wild horses couldn't open the doors in flight so don't worry) An airline is a commercial operation, so who are we to stop them praying. A few years ago, there was a rumour that the Hasidic Jews preferred to fly with us between Tel Aviv and Europe/USA because our FAs were a lot more patient witht heir antics than El Al FAs. No idea if it was true, but we fly a lot of them.
A few minor irritants from an FA point of view; their prayer time often coincides with our meal serving time, and then they are in the way even at the doors.
Some Hasidics will demand that we don't even get close to them since they need to start all over again if touched. Obviously not doable.
Some Hasidic will refuse to be served be female FAs in case the FA is having her period and therefore is unclean. 2 easy solutions; no food/drink, or serve everything to the wife and she'll sort it.

Oh and Gregg, paying attention to Rainboe & his Language Warriors has improved my English a lot. I'm not a native English speaker, so if I can get better, so can you. Dyslexia or no dyslexia.


True story.
747, in front of door 5L, 2 Hasidic Jews in full tefillin regalia (http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1746/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1746-1134.jpg), praying and swaying. In front of the opposing door, on the floor, 2 devoted Muslims praying and swaying in a different direction.
In the little connecting corridor, me gently yet firmly informing a swarm of exitedly chattering Japanese tourist in full Japanese tourist regalia (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2362/1821005222_ee628054d0_o.jpg) (beige hat & safari vest, bedecked with electronic equipment) that videoing people at prayer is not polite.
No not even a little, no you can't stand in the loo and film through the open door, no you can not get your wives and children to come watch, no you can't take still pictures either and sound recordings on your mobile are also out. Just sit down and do some origami OK?

[eliptic]

Just sit down and do some origami OK

hehe,, your the man:ok:

[passy777]

Just sit down and do some origami OK?


Oh dear!

It would appear OK to stereo-type the Japanese, however, I do find such potentially offensive remarks coming from a Cabin Crew member AND a moderator of this forum somewhat disappointing.:=

[ProM]

Oh come on passy, it was a joke and was not in the slightest bit offensive

[hellsbrink]

So the "full Japanese tourist regalia" bit didn't bother you but a throw-away comment about origami does?

[flapsforty]

passy777, assumptions often lead to misunderstandings. Sorry about unthinkingly assuming that you know something only because to me it is so self-evident. :ouch:

At the 'flying pied-à-terre' close to my home airport, I have a collection of origami. Given to me over the years by Japanese pax.
In tourist class we carry many large groups of Japanese tourists. One of their favourite passtimes on board is doing origami. They give us the finished products. We decorate the aircraft with them, we pin them to our aprons and uniform jackets. Not because we necessarily enjoy walking around like gaudy Japanese Xmas trees for 11 hours, but because it obviously makes the origamiing pax very happy. A bit of fun, a bit of commercial thinking and a small mark of respect.
But you couldn't know all that.

So while it reads like a joke, it is what I said. Based on day to day on-board reality.

I hope this bit of background will lessen your 'disappointment'. :)

[eastern wiseguy]

Rainboe

exercise religion



Did they practise religion,or exercise religion......we need to know.(As if any of this is important or even germane.):ugh::ugh:

[passy777]

assumptions, often lead to misunderstandings. Sorry about unthinkingly assuming that you know something only because to me it is so self-evident.



A somewhat arrogant response, however, forgive my ignorance as my intelligence seems to be far inferior to yours. Regarding the Japanese, would you also make such comments either directly or on this forum relating to Muslims, Jews or other races? - I would suspect not - therefore I would suggest it is somewhat unwise to stereo-type and in the eyes of others, ridicule your passengers and maybe keep your own council in such matters. I have seen less offensive postings removed from this forum.

Oh come on passy, it was a joke and was not in the slightest bit offensive


To who may I ask? (or should that be 'to whom?' should I be reprimanded from the grammar police). I couldn't imagine the Japanese passenger(s) rolling in the aisles with laughter!

Passy

[Skipness One Echo]

....which is why one avoids religion and politics in polite company.

[TightSlot]

Words to the wise...

Regular readers will know I have little time for public displays of mumbo-jumbo And regular readers in this forum will know that I have little time for this kind of BS. Do try and get over yourself. The world really does not revolve around you, and neither does PPRuNe.

passy777 - After such a hasty and pious judgement, you have been given a coherent explanation. Is that sufficient, or do you require more in some way, to compensate for your disappointment? The world waits...

greggx101 - Gee but it's hard to know where to start - There's just so much sloppy, lazy and incoherent thought in your original post that the task is overwhelming. Do you seriously expect airline staff to suspend the human rights of their customers by forcing them to pray in a toilet, or by preventing them from praying at all? Do you seriously suggest that a PA is made every time somebody prays, drawing attention to their activity? Or do those suggestions only apply to those groups, religions or races whose customs you are not personally familiar with? Do more than four Mexicans gathered together constitute a threat? What about an Armenian girls hockey team or two Buddhist monks on a thursday?

Airline passengers are humans and they behave as such: Each is an individual with a discrete set of beliefs, behavioral patterns and needs, all of which vary constantly. Airlines cannot tailor their policies and actions to allow for every conceivable variation. Humans are expected to interact with a degree of tolerance and intelligence, much as they do in day-to-day life. Providing that no harm is done to others (excepting PaperTiger we all understand what this really means) then people have a right to pray: We, as adults, accept and tolerate this, even if we don't know our Amish from our elbow.

greggx101 - your big new word for today is "adult" - See how many different ways you can find to use that word in a sentence

[flapsforty]

Passy777, I have apologised for assuming. You choose to interpret that as arrogance.
Such is your privilege.

As for stereotyping; that is possibly a discussion which falls outside the remit of this forum, but it is an interesting little diversion, (to me anyway) so if TightSlot allows it, we can have it. If he feels this forum is the wrong place, I am happy for him to delete everything after this. :)

I do not see anything wrong in referring to full Japanese tourist regalia.
It describes, in a manner recognisable to everybody who is regularly in contact with groups of Japanese tourists, how the majority of Japanese tourists travelling in groups dresses. No more, no less.
(type 'Japanese tourist' into Google-pictures, and check what people are wearing in the FIRST picture that comes up)

As to Muslims and Jews. Unlike 'Japanese', neither of your examples is a nationality.
The first one is a religious grouping found on all continents. Its members come in all shapes, colours and races. The second one is a people defined by religion and maternal ancestry, diaspora-d to the 4 corners of the world. Irs members come in all shapes, colours and races.
Your question 'would you stereotype' is not a valid one.
Both Jews and Muslims are such immensely diverse groups that I can not find a single way to stereotype them.

After many many years of flying and traveling the world, I can easily stereotype for example New York Jews, high caste Indians, Brazilian Transvestites, Norwegian oil rig workers, members of the extended Saudi Royal family and many other different groups of people for you though.

They and many many others form groups of individuals who, while different and individual in many ways, also share a number of distinctive characteristics, both in behaviour and for example dress code.
I, and all long time LH FAs with me, recognise this and will adapt our behaviour accordingly.
You can call that stereotyping and thus give it a negative meaning, or you can call it a practical way for FAs to make sure their behaviour is adapted to their different pax. This way, the individual FA can give the best service to the many different pax we serve.

If we have a chuckle once in a while because a pax behaves EXACTLY according to what we have come to expect, I see no wrong in that.

People are group animals. We all behave, with individual variations, according to the recognisable standards of our peer group. Some of those standards are easily recognisable, some of them less so, but they exist.
To deny that fact seems to me utterly removed from reality.



__________________________________________________________

edited: TighSlot and I wrote at the same time; he's obviously a faster typist than I am. :)

[PaperTiger]

And regular readers in this forum will know that I have little time for this kind of BS. Do try and get over yourself. The world really does not revolve around you, and neither does PPRuNe.Ms. Slot, my little intro was an attempt to deflect ad hominem attempts to tell me what a really, really bad person I am. Again.

Sorry it upset you. Actually my world does revolve around me. Yours ?

(shelf life of this post - oh, about 2 minutes)

[PaperTiger]

Do you need "reasonable" defining as well?I don't think your definition would be particularly helpful, but possibly enlightening. I'll pass.

[Bealzebub]

That is why I used the Cambridge online dictionary definition, in order to provide a fair arbiter. I think you are probably wise, since regardless as the axis for all these perceived worlds, they all seem to reside near the odd black hole, where enlightenment is but a futile struggle. ;)

[passy777]

Wow -two Mods on my case - I was not even going to dignify the defensive replys with a response, however, as "the world awaits", I will make a final response (as requested) and hopefully we will agree to disagree.


After many many years of flying and traveling the world, I can easily stereotype for example New York Jews, high caste Indians, Brazilian Transvestites, Norwegian oil rig workers, members of the extended Saudi Royal family and many other different groups of people for you though.

Thats fine, but as I alluded to in my previous posting, it would be advisable to keep your own counsel and not post potentially insulting and patronising comment on this forum - especially in your capacity as a Moderator. I would suggest it would be difficult for you to remove similar postings when it seems you cannot control your own! I suspect you would find the stereotypical description of 'Trolly Dolly' lacking in humour - maybe your Japanese passengers feel the same.

If we have a chuckle once in a while because a pax behaves EXACTLY according to what we have come to expect, I see no wrong in that.


Fine - but laugh WITH them not AT them! And certainly don't make disparaging comments on forums about them. Yes we all have our own traits whether it is indiginous to a certain nationality or indeed an individual affliction, habit or nature.

As to Muslims and Jews. Unlike 'Japanese', neither of your examples is a nationality.


Irrespective of religion OR nationality, these are PEOPLE. I suppose the link which directed the forum user to a fully regaled Jew was just for indicitave puposes only then? I used the religious examples as to suggest you would not ridicule them in the same manner as your Japanese tourists, however, there were religious undertones in your posting.


But you couldn't know all that.

Assumptions often lead to misunderstandings - your words - not mine - and patronising drivel. You do not know me, therefore how can you assume what I do and do not know - you would be surprised!

Rant over and that is the end of it as far as I am concerned, and as I indicated earlier in this post, I hope we can agree to disagree.


Passy

[hellsbrink]

Passy

Can you keep my council too or will I send it to FF because they're a bunch of useless :mad:?

(Unless you meant COUNSEL, of course)

Assumptions often lead to misunderstandings - your words - not mine - and patronising drivel

Never a truer word spoken, especially when we read your posts

[Final 3 Greens]

Do you seriously expect airline staff to suspend the human rights of their customers by forcing them to pray in a toilet, or by preventing them from praying at all?

I was not going to coment on this thread, but be very careful before making such simplistic statements.

Article 9 of the ECHR legislation says

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;
this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom,
either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to
manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and
observance.

Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to
such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a
democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of
public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and
freedoms of others.

I would put it to you that if a group of Hasidic Jews decide to worship opposite of a group of Muslims, or vice versa, it would easily fall foul of laws involving inciting religious hatred and therefore the airline crew should consider stopping it.

In fact, should a mini riot develop, the airline crew or even another passenger would be lawfully entitled to kill a rioter, without denying a basic human right, per article 2, para 2.

Article 2 – Right to life
1 Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be
deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a
court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided
by law.
2 Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of
this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than
absolutely necessary:
a in defence of any person from unlawful violence;
b in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person
lawfully detained;
c in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or
insurrection.

So please, in future, be a little more careful when quoting 'human rights' as a catch all.

Personally, I find any type of overt religious worship in front of a captive audience to be distasteful, regardless of the religion, whereas I quite happily helped a muslim sitting next to me to comply with Ramadan by looking out for the first evidence of sunrise, so that he could eat his meal without worrying. as it was a privilege to assist someone of deveout faith, who was also kind and considerate in his behaviour.

[passy777]

Seems like the Grammar Police are out in force again!

[bealine]

Paper Tiger - I'm with you on this issue!

It is high time that we followed the lead of the Netherlands and forbade the outward wearing of religious clothing or symbols in public places. If someone so chooses, their religious books can be read and prayers can be silently recited in the comfort of one's own seat.

My opinion is not having a go at anyone's beliefs - it is to prevent others' faiths from being intrusive to those of other faiths, non-believers or "non-understanders" such as the Original Poster.

[The SSK]

Well, this has been entertaining.

Many (30 or more) years ago I was on a transatlantic flight when suddenly three or four bearded and ringleted gentlemen stood up, unbuttoned their black frock coats, extracted one arm, buttoned the coats up again, rolled up the shirtsleeve on the aforementioned arm, and went through their prayer ritual.

It didn’t alarm me then but I suspect it might alarm me now, and certainly alarm some other passengers. Whether or not the original question was well expressed or well written, I think it was probably worth asking.

[Shack37]

As for stereotyping; that is possibly a discussion which falls outside the remit of this forum, but it is an interesting little diversion, (to me anyway) so if TightSlot allows it, we can have it. If he feels this forum is the wrong place, I am happy for him to delete everything after this. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif




Ms. Slot, my little intro was an attempt to deflect ad hominem attempts to tell me what a really, really bad person I am. Again.


More dyslexia?:E

[PaperTiger]

More dyslexia?If you mean my confusing the gender of a certain mod., I confess I made an assumption based on the username.

See, I'm sexist as well ;)

[PaperTiger]

I'm with you on this issue!Good to know :ok:, but we'll get shouted down as usual.

[bealine]

Good to know http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif, but we'll get shouted down as usual.I don't see why we should. The Forum is open to debate from all points of view and I think one's religion is a private matter between themselves and their Deity.

Tolerance and Respect means that if you allow one group of people to stand or make obeisance, in the aisle, you must also allow atheists to mock or scorn their actions, devil worshippers would have to be allowed to sacrifice new-born babies, boil up essence of toad or whatever else they get up to!

The only way to properly enjoy a culturally diverse society, and for minorities to integrate properly, is for everybody to leave their religious and cultural trappings in their dwelling-place and to stand equal with their peers in public places. That is exactly the lefislation introduced by the Netherlands and their ministers were lambasted for it!

FWIW, I am Presbyterian (Church of Ireland). I do pray quite often, and many a time in public, but it is done so quietly and discreetly, no one need ever know except the Great Architect of the Universe and myself.

[Rainboe]

To hell with religious tolerance! It's grammar tolerance that is important. I am an atheist, but if anyone wants to pray around me in public, that's fine- do what you like! To whatever 'God' you think is out there, but I have to say I do feel like tapping people on the shoulder and actually asking 'do you think there is anybody out there listening, and why?' I have sent Jehovah's Witnesses packing with their ears ringing to 'you're wasting your life- there is no God!'- they're fair game because they are trying to ram their nonsense down my throat. But I am a little demanding- all I ask is that these believers in their own particular religion don't decide to blow themselves up and take others with them, or decide that it somehow benefits their religion if a planeload of people get incinerated. I don't think Amish are so inclined. Too busy making candles and harvesting and minding their own business!

From that perspective, this thread does appear to have lost any sense of humour from perfectly reasonable, sensible and humorous moderation. People take religion so deadly seriously! Why? There's nothing there!

[Loose rivets]

majority of Japanese tourists travelling in groups dresses


Oooo, Flappy. Travelling? and is it in group's dresses, or groups, dresses?


Sorry, I've been to the Rainbow school of post correction.


Anyway, nobody's mentioned the folk, who, having been lucky enough to gain the extra legroom of an Exit space, find it full of people doing their gyrations. I don't even like people gathering there and standing still and mute. I don't go to their row and look out of the window, why should they think it's okay to stand in mine just because I've got a little extra space?

There's only one seat on that aircraft that I feel happy in, and they won't let me sit in it...they wont even let me into the little room that it's in. And that's despite having a big watch.

[Shack37]

Originally posted by Paper Tiger


If you mean my confusing the gender of a certain mod., I confess I made an assumption based on the username.




So did I but I'd never admit it