My Story!

[Sky Scratcher]

(With regards to the numerous however similar reply’s concerning the pilot profession).

I myself am currently a ‘starry eyed wanabe’ with little more than 30 hours experience on a Piper PA28 (still working towards the PPL). Have recently finished school after undertaking my a-levels and have been predicted 3 A’s. These grades would inevitably open up various ‘well-respected/paid’ jobs within society which have been highlighted and expressed by my parents. However one career is for me and one career is what I see and want to do for the rest of my life, Flying (to the disapproval of my parents for reasons I will explain below).

My dad is friendly with a few pilots as some live around the area. As they are aware I am keen to embark on this career, they are constantly updating me on he current climate within the industry and basically the dissatisfaction many of them can’t help but feel having pursued the career.

They are constantly complaining about the hours and unnecessary criticism they receive from crusty captains etc. Few of them fly for different airlines but seem to share the same problems. My dad is becoming increasingly impatient with my decision to pursue the career as he is aware the effort and money involved in receiving your wings is not always rewarded in terms of a job.

I am not naïve in the sense that I will attend an FTO, obtain a frozen ATPL and be employed by a European airliner shortly after graduation. I am aware there is a sheer lot of effort involved in finding an airline willing to interview let alone give you a job. I have been accepted to OAA for the APP course and have an assessment arranged with Cabair for the Fist Officer Direct course and will arrange one with Jerez and CTC but can’t help but wonder am I wasting my money.

I am now hesitant for the first time ever on pursuing this career as the pilots around my area only seem to express the cons and stresses involved with flying. I log on pprune in the hunt for some positive feedback from hopefuls currently in the search for a job or pilots currently in employment to outweigh the cons expressed by the pilots I know. However this information on pprune is as frequent as an airline job.

My dad wants me to consider dentistry and I have always been hesitant but know I find myself searching university entry requirements for dentistry because there doesn’t seem to be a risk with the occupation and they seem to live a lavish stress free (in comparison to pilots) lifestyle.

I just don’t want to waste the better part of 70K on a career that doesn’t guarantee a job and is constantly being slated by wanabe’s and pilots. Is it really worth it or am I just setting myself up for a major disappointment and financial disaster?

[airbandit]

I think there are more chances to damage patient mouth for the rest of life than to injure a passenger.

You know the climate is very bad currently and will stay like this for some time, however, If you really want that job, it is possible...

I am in a very similar possition, for now I have decided to take Airline Management Bc's after that I plan to start pilot training.

Good luck,

[Bealzebub]

Only you can decide that.

Like your dad, I am at the other end of the spectrum with children (young adults,) who are in similar positions to yourself. The only difference is they live with an airline pilot who is always moaning and complaining!

I and my family have undoubtably been the beneficiaries of what has been for the most part a great career. I started as a teenager and since then haven't been out of work for over 3 decades. I have never had an airline go bust under me. Progression through the ranks and fleets I wanted has been good. Salaries crossed the six figure threshold a decade ago. I am now looking forward (with fingers crossed) to a healthy final salary pension, the ability to still potentially fly for another 10 years, with all those benefits as a great big cushion. I get fed and watered at work. I get paid to be in nice hotels around the world. I get a free finest quality polyester uniform. Free car parking in the convenient car parks at work. Free private healthcare. Free Insurance against sickness and loss of licence. Even something that helps pay for dental/eye treatments. Good travel benefits etc. I have never paid for a type rating. Never been bonded to anybody other than by loyalty.

How could I not recommend this industry that has been so good me, to my own children, or indeed anybody else? The answer to that question, is that this industry is well into the process of major change. You don't need me to point out how it has changed, just read these forums. The tide of change is working it's way up the beach. My collegues and I are an expense that will eventually dissappear and then the transformation will be complete. It is not a case of if it will happen, only when, and even that date is a reasonable certainty. In other words this job might be emblazened with the same titles, but the process of aquisition and maintenance is very different indeed.

This isn't to say the job itself is now bad or not to be recommended, however the First Officers role is becoming part of the pre-qualification process as far as reward is concerned. As a strategy, it takes a lot of cost pressure off all levels of employment for pilots. If you don't think so look at the companies who are enthusiastically engaged in the practice. Perhaps this will continue to be the way of the future, but in any event it has and will transform the reward expectations and the reward levels for this profession.

For what it is worth, I think your dads advice is very sound. One sentence in your post stood out for me:
I just don’t want to waste the better part of 70K on a career that doesn’t guarantee a job
Well it may well be a good deal more than that, and it will guarantee nothing! However if you decide that, like many others, it is a risk you feel will give you the best chance of reward, then go for it. Reward isn't just about money, but it would be naive to not suggest that money is the tool that can facilitate a better lifestyle for many people.

Nobody really knows what the future holds, but you can be sure it will be full of the unexpected. Do your research and make the decision you feel happy with.

Oh and of course listen to your dad!

[TheBeak]

You seem like a sensible guy who has a realistic view of the way things are. Your dilema is one we have all been in and it really is only for you to make the decision. Bealzebub has hity the nail on the head - I couldn't have put it better -though I do not have his experience.

How about military flying? It is definately worth consideration if you want to fly for a living.

Flying training is very expensive and I wouldn't recommend getting your parents to go guarantor for a loan. I really wouldn't mate.

Flying is amazing, it is the most fulfilling thing I have ever done, it never feels like work and every flight almost feels like an adventure to me. But the pay is starting to not justify the cost of training, the treatment you will endure by FTOs and airlines is unjustifiable and the way things are going is becoming a real worry. Job security, particularly at the moment, is a real luxury within the industry. I suppose it is in all though. But I think it will continue to be the case within this industry.

I'd give dentistry some real consideration too, then get yourself a ME PPL/IR and go and enjoy flying for the sheer thrill of it.

As I said above do also consider the military.

Good luck with it.

[G SXTY]

You raise a number of issues in your post.

The first is you age in relation to career plans. If you have just finished 'A' levels you are around 18 or 19? For many people (myself included) aviation is a second career. I got my first airline job aged 36, which still leaves a good 25 years of flying ahead of me. Experience in other industries, maturity and general life-experience are always useful, and can help put flying's pros and cons into perspective. Any job has the potential to become stale over time, but in my (limited) experience, the few colleagues who are jaded and unenthusiastic are generally ones who went straight from school to flying, and have experienced nothing else. It's worth bearing that in mind when listening to people's stories, and also the fact that you have a working life of at least 45 years ahead of you - meaning there's no need to rush into anything. Just as importantly, 45 years is a long time in a boring job.

Which brings us onto the second issue. Parental pressure to follow a particular career is unhelpful, however well-intentioned. Your father may have entirely sensible reasons for suggesting dentistry, but if you have no interest in it, how long do you think it will take before boredom sets in? When it comes to important decisions in life - such as choice of career - by all means seek advice from others, but ultimately you have to do what you believe is right for you. No-one else - even your parents - can tell you what to do.

Regarding investment versus risk, you are quite correct that there are no job guarantees in this game. Add in a self-sponsored type rating and you could spend a lot more than £70k without any guarantee of success. If that though scares you and gives you pause for thought, then good - it should do. I wish more people would stop to consider what they're getting into before committing themselves. If after consideration you feel it's a risk worth taking, then fair enough - that's a calculation that most of us have made at some stage. Remember though that it's possible to get exactly the same qualification for a good £25k less than Oxford or FTE charge, simply by doing modular training - which would also allow you to work full time and pay for training as you go, as well as giving you valuable life and work experience.

Flying is perceived as a glamourous career, and if only for that reason, many, many people have ambitions of being an airline pilot. Few will ever make it. Those who do are generally successful not so much through talent or money, but because they are so passionate about flying that they will put up with all the obstacles and sacrifices on the way to the right hand seat - not to mention the downsides of the job once they get there. Only you know how strongly you feel, and whether it would all be worth it. All I can tell you is that for me, since changing career I have never been happier. If I hear a aircraft overhead I have to look up, on days off I go to airshows. When I go on holiday I miss my job - that's how passionately I feel about flying, and why I can't imagine doing anything else. In short, I'm being paid to do my hobby, and it don't get much better than that. That said, I had the immense good fortune to qualify right at the peak of the job market and sail straight into a job with a decent airline within a couple of months. Not many people are that lucky. Others will have different (and equally valid) opinions, but if you really love flying, then I think you'll find it's worth the risk and the downsides.

[adverse-bump]

If you go to a flying school bend over and pay them 80k to do there 'special course' you'll be pissed off.

If you pay a lo-co airline 30k for the privilege of flying there jets, you'll be pissed off (and tied!)

but if you cleaver about it. you'll find yourself a decent job, (doesnt have to be a big shinney jet) you'll show up for work and sit there watching sunsets you wont believe, then you'll try to kiss the wheels down 3 or 4 times a day!

as for sitting there with crusty old captains telling you your :mad:, if your :mad: at flying, you need to be told.

[betpump5]

Skyscratcher,

For once this is a good post, articulate and well mannered so you have definitely grabbed my attention. However some parts of my reply will sound like a broken record to those who are familiar with my work!

Your biggest concern is ‘financial disaster’. Yet there does not need to be any disaster? Disaster is achieved by not making the right decision. So I would ask you – why go Integrated? And may I add 70K is absolute minimum. Add 25%, then some more, then factor in interest and you will find the cost circa 6 figures! What would your father make of that?

You are predicted 3 A’s:ok:. Why not get a degree and a well-paid job over the next 3-5 years that will at least allow you to save some money if you still wanted to go integrated, and be of minimal risk to your Father. Or, a more sensible route is to go modular! Is there anything wrong with the modular route? If you are in a “relatively” well paid job –with your grades £25K is not unrealistic – then you could pay as you fly and never once have to visit a bank!

Not forgetting you will also have the all so important life experience skills that many airlines are attracted to.

So I can’t see any problem. I said this before in a previous reply and I will say it again:

Anyone can afford to be a pilot.

So what are you waiting for? Rather than ask your dad for a car for your 18th, ask him to pay for a PPL which you can do over this summer between July-September. With 3 As, you may not even need a degree so you could find yourself a job as soon as possible. Why the rush to start flight training now?

In terms of working conditions, it doesn’t matter what industry you work in, there will always be these issues. When I was on the 742-F, I was paid significantly less than my colleagues flying passengers but I loved every second of it. I flew with pilots I considered friends after having known them just for a few weeks, and was treated as a valued employee by my bosses. – even though I had only just become unfrozen on the 732 before I moved to the 742F.

At 25, I realised “the dream” (yeah right) and moved onto the 744 with a hell of a pay rise and great T&Cs. Do I still enjoy it 4 years later?

As much as I enjoy watching paint dry….

Do not rush into this industry. Use your head. You may need it one day.

[INNflight]

SkyScratcher,

You have a very sensible view of the industry, that's good to start with... can't have too much common sense - ever!

I can assure you many will find themselves in the same situation as you are, however many are blinded by the incredible thought of walking down the terminal surrounded by hosties and working a little for a lot of money.

Truth is, that even during the early stages of your PPL, you will have to work hard, and this is not gonna change anytime after that. The studying and refreshing does not stop after you are done with training. There's always a prof check coming up, or new technologies to get familiar with - as in any profession it is hard work to stay ahead.

I am sure you (and any trainee can agree with that I hope) will go through a lot of dissappointment and set-backs while being in training, and also if flying for a living later. There's always people who try to rip you off or make things miserable, but then again this happens in any industry.

The key is: Do something you feel is WORTH it! Get into a job you want with all your heart, and then work as hard as you can and hold onto it.

If you need inspiration or simply a good read, a fellow ppruner has written two VERY good threads a long time ago, but these are still top!

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/333092-zero-hours-airline-pilot-my-story.html

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/327746-day-life.html

Whatever you do, be passionate about it! :ok:

[Hamish 123]

Strange that no one has pointed out that being a dentist is probably the most horrendous job in the world - looking into peoples' gobs all day, for 30 - 40 years - you've gotta be joking! And I don't care what the job security, salary and pension are like!

[betpump5]

being a dentist is probably the most horrendous job in the world - looking into peoples' gobs all day

Then be a gynaecologist

[mikehammer]

Sky Scrathcer,

Like Duir I qualified at a similar time post 9/11, it took until 18 months ago to get my first "proper" flying job (although I flew plenty of single pistons for anyone who would have me for aerial work along the way) with a small, mainly freight operator, on a turbo prop.

Management treat me like something they walked in, I see my wife once a month, and last year I got a pay increase followed by a pay cut this year. I take home about £1600 a month for my trouble, but put about 50 multi crew twin turbo prop hours in the book for free.

A day at work is easy now I know the ropes, the flying is challenging (no working automatic systems) and we are in the clag most of the day, but I know what I am doing and I work with a small group of experienced captains and I know what they expect of me. There is never a day when I sit looking at the clock wanting to go home (I mean crew accommodation - last month I was 4 nights in my own bed at my real home); in fact the time passes too quickly some days.

I have no pension, debts from about fifty grand's worth of training costs, an ageing car and my wife pays the mortgage, which hurts my pathetic male vanity. I am tired all the time and I stink of kerosene until I hit the shower.

I do it because I think the current climate won't last forever, and the only way is up, career wise that is, cheap jokes apart.

Question is how long will it take you to get your first job, and can you be bothered to work for a bottom feeder airline like mine on a noisy smelly turbo prop, although you may be "lucky" and swing a jet job with 250 hours and stomp up more cash for the rating? You're young enough, which puts time much more on your side.

If you want to be rich quick, or even at all, don't do it. If you want an unstable career where, even though the company is probably run by idiots, you still enjoy your actual job, do it, but don't expect a stable home life in the early to medium part of your working life.

As Duir says, your choice, and once you make it you will find decision after decision after decision waiting for you. Kinda exciting eh?

[Jerr]

Hi Sky Scrathcer,

Ever since I was a young boy I have always been exicted by aviation, its gets into your blood. I could not afford to learn to fly as a career, but in the good old days University in Australia was free. So I went toUniversity, got a degree, post graduate specialist qualifications,very busy practice, house on the beach, big income...

Lots of my colleagues in specialist medical practice also have levels of dissatisfaction, etc. So it really comes down to what you make of it. Make the most of any situation that you are in.

In this day and age, you can have more than one career. I have a busy practice, but also fly commercially on a part time basis. Too much flying I look forward to the practice, too many patients then I cannot wait to go flying.

I am lucky enough to enjoy both. One of my friends use to work for Ryanair, they have several part time pilots. There is a dentist that now works as a pilot for REX - a regional Australian Airline.

You are young and have a number of options, if you have a degree then you have it for life, always something to fall back onto. I got my PPL whilst at University, another good friend of mine learnt to fly in the Airforce flying clubs, whislt working as a medical officer.

There is a huge shortage of dentists that work in rural areas in Australia, I know some medical specialists and dentists who fly themselves out to regional areas and do clinics.


Good luck

JERR

[corsair]

Some interesting thoughtful replies. People, pilots I know sometimes slag off PPRuNe as too being negative. It's interesting that many are quite young and not yet working pilots. But I feel they sometimes confuse negativity and reality. Because reality is a long way from the dream. In PPRuNe people tell it like it is.

I had the dream long enough, God knows I pursued it relentlessly to the detriment of the rest of my life, career, relationships and financial security. When it seemed to slip from my grasp at one stage. I was almost depressed. I say 'almost' because by nature I'm an optimist.

But now I'm a working pilot, not in an airline though. In truth I never really fancied being an airline pilot, still don't, if truth be told. I wanted to fly, just fly, preferably in the military, preferably supersonic jet fighters. It never happened of course. C'est la vie! I'm paid to fly now and found like everyone else who ever found work as a pilot that it's just a job. A job I enjoy though but just a job. There are moments which no other job can provide, moments of exhilaration, beauty, fear. You see things few others ever see. Every now and then I lose focus on the job in hand, look around and think 'Wow, someone is paying me to do this.'

But as often as not. I just want to go home. I actually turn down opportunities to fly for fun rather than money. I don't need the hours anymore and the thought of paying for a flight fills me with horror. Yet it was not so long ago that I would have leapt at the chance.

Despite all, I still love flying, but I do believe the love is waning. I don't like the way it takes me away from my family for days at a time and for the fact that it simply doesn't pay enough to be any form of long term committment. In fact the money is barely adequate and isn't guaranteed.

In effect the job is a luxury, an indulgence. You might argue, 'Leave get a different job. Leave it for those of us hungry pilots who will appreciate it'. The answer is: I cannot, because like so many pilots there is no other job to go to. It's all I know. I don't have any other qualifications. Plus I'd miss it. I am making plans to quietly disengage from flying over the next few years. Ease out of the job. Part time Instructing perhaps, to keep in touch and earn some money. That might change of course, the old airline job might just appear on the horizon and force me into the right hand seat. Fate likes to play ironic games. Nothing is written in stone.

So what would be my advice? Don't become a Dentist because your parents want you to or because it's a good steady job. Do it because it interests you. It doesn't preclude flying though. One Dentist I know, is a highly successful aerobatic and display pilot, all no doubt paid for by his dental practice. I don't know if he ever had ambitions of becoming an airline pilot but I'm almost sure he wouldn't want to now.

Find something you would like to do, train for it. It's your backup career. Meanwhile continue flying. One day you'll be qualified enough to get the coveted airline job. Take it. If the magic wears off like it seems to for many people. Then go back to the other profession you like. Don't turn into a moaner and feel trapped as a pilot. Give yourself options.

We all only have one life but we don't have to do the same thing all your life.

[dougy24]

Sky Scratcher

Hi, I started out in working life as a butcher, after 5 years I decided I wanted sometheing a bit more interesting, so I joined the Army, served with Airborne forces and the Army Air corps in the 1980's, I had always been interested in aircraft, my dad was a Lancaster gunner in WW2, so i spent a lot of my childhood going to airshows etc...gives you a clue about my age!! My brother went into aviation as an engineer for BA and then Virgin...so i suppose aviation is in the blood.

I tried to become a pilot in the Army, but they said I would never make it in the alloted time, so I did my 12 yrs in the forces, came out and spent the next 10 years in Telecoms as an engineer and then sales etc, earnt very good money, but hated the job in the end.

I took up flying in 2003 and got my PPL, did the IMC and night rating etc and built up some hours at the weekend, when the big telecoms company decided to make people redundant in 2004, i took the money and ran, decided i wanted to become a commercial pilot, everyone at my club, you know, the old and bold etc!! said I was to old to get a job, was approaching 45 at the time, but hey i went ahead, enrolled with Bristol groundschool, got a set of Oxford books as well, when they arrived in the post I nearly s**t myself as I thought there is no way i can possibly do this lot ? however perseverance and hard work paid off and after a couple of resits, I passed the ATPL exams some 14 months later, then went to the bottom of the next pile, borrowed a bit off the bank and used my business (had set up a delevery business) to fund my flying training, did my CPL and IR and MCC with a private school in the West Midlands,

I then started to send out some 200 CV's, got about10 no thanks replies back, I then went and did a pilot interview course with Pilot Pete who is on this forum, good course and got lots of very positive help , but was then lucky enough to get an interview and sim test for a company who flew recon stuff, did 3 months with them and got some more hours, but the type of flying was not for me, so I decided to go and invest 16k in a Turbo prop type rating, met 2 Captains on the course from a company who were quite impressed with the work and effort and brave decision, as they put it to go into aviation at my time of life !!

Anyway to cut story short, they put me forward for an interview and I got a job, I now fly in Europe as an FO on the ATR, the hours are long,the pay is ok, the travelling to and from work is a pain and expensive and I spend perhaps 8 nights a month in my own bed at home !! but the experience i have gained in the last 12 months has been enormous and what then seemed a daunting and impossible task is now a lot easier, the learning curve has gone through the roof....I am about 50k in debt, would I change it?....no way...every day is different, the guys and girls I fly with are excellent and I am sure maybe in 2 years the job market will improve and then who knows?

So you do what makes you happy, you may not perhaps start flying proffesionally now and go down a different career path and then come back to it later?, just keep flying if you can, all hours are experience, you may not need to spend 80k out with CTC, CABAIR or OXFORD, there are, as someone else pointed out cheaper ways of doing it, I know several people who went to CTC and Oxford that still dont have jobs 4 years later? get yourself about at local clubs and network, a lot of it in this game is also who you know?

Whatever you decide, good luck, and listen to your dads advice to, I wish now that perhaps I had..

Dougy:ok:

[powerstall]

Very well said. :ok:

Keep on flying. :)

[pablo]

excellent advice guys

I'm right now at a hard stage in which I'm wondering if all the effort is really worth.

On one side I look forward to quit flying (or lack thereof, due to bad luck/timing, although hired, I'm not flying much), but... on the other side I say to myself "what if this is the wrong/worst move".

For some of you it's easy to not look back, as in the end you have succeeded in your goals and found an airline job, acceptably paid, but... some of us still wonder if we will make it, and once we are there if we will be happy with it and think all the effort was worth.
And doing the reverse move isn't easy, as you have a lot of family/friends/colleagues pressure to stay. Nobody would understand/support the decision.

I don't mean to set the negative note here, but I think some of us, if we could travel back in time, would have done something else.

But... as some of us are relentless daydreamers... we might have ended up wanting to travel back in time once more to choose aviation this time.
Who knows?

In any case, it's a huge financial effort in a difficult industry.
I agree with some of the guys in getting a "real" career first for 2 main reasons: saving money and not least important have a plan B in case aviation doesn't work.
Then you can go modular while you work and do things at your pace.

In the end, even some of us that went integrated and got our license at the age of 20, it wasn't after 3-4 years later that we could find our first flying job (and not as airline pilot). Depending on the situation of the industry, your personal issues/condition, etc... can make difficult for you fidning a job.
If you go modular, you can earn money while you study and in the end if the timing is good you might find a flying job at a similar age you would if you were integrated.

You can even ask some sort of allowed leave and take 3-4 months off to go time building in the US which is extremely cheaper.
There are many routes to take.

Keep on pursuing your dream, but think carefully on each step you make.

All the best

Regards / Pablo

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm 65 and it makes me sick to hear of parents trying to decide careers for their children. One of my sons has a very well-paid job, nice home and family. My other son has a very poorly paid job and still lives at home with us; he's 37. We have never ever tried to influence them regarding jobs. We helped them when they were young, e.g paid lodging fees for Uni, etc., but always let them make the decisions. They are both well-adjusted, decent human beings who don't smoke, drink heavily or "do" drugs and both are as contented as anyone I've met. For my wife and I, that's all we would ever want.

Happiness in a job is ten million more times important than status or potential earnings. I've met many people who hated their jobs, even though they were well paid and enjoyed "status" (whatever that means).

YOU make the decisions, Sky Scratcher. If you are mature enough and intelligent enough to do well at school you should be capable of making up your mind what you want to do in life, whether it's piloting a Jumbo or sweeping the streets.

[Desk-pilot]

Sky scratcher,

I'm now 40 so have lived a bit and the main piece of advice I would like to give you is never ever follow a career or a degree because your parents want you to do it - been there - got the T shirt!! As a teenager I had three main interests aviation, sound engineering/Hi-fi and photography (well four if you count girls!) I planned to go for BA's then Cadet pilot scheme at 18 but my parents encouraged me to go to University as I was the first member of my family to ever be in a position to go. I didn't want to defer applying to BA at 18 but somehow was swayed so decided I wanted to do photography but then again was convinced by parents to do something 'more sensible' so I did Commerce.

My delay in not applying to BA while pursuing a course I had little interest in cost me very dearly because when I Graduated in 1991 having reached final stage interview with them they canned the scheme due to the Gulf War. Having a Commerce Degree then meant applying for relevant jobs and eventually I was offered a job with an insurance company. Spent three years wondering how the heck my life had gone so wrong and how come I was stuck in an office on a business park in Peterborough! Crap job, crap life. I eventually joined BA but in an IT related role and spent several years there leading major projects but still really just wanted to fly and eventually (again against my parents advice!!) bailed out took redundancy and paid my own training at OATS before becoming a turboprop F/O aged 38.

Financially not just going for BA at 18 has cost me a great deal. If I'd got in I'd be a six figure salaried Captain flying for probably the best airline in the world, as it is I have had to pay my own training and earn a modest 5 figure salary. On the other hand I utterly love the job and am far far happier than I have ever been at any time in my working life by a million miles. Every day is challenging, exhilerating and enjoyable. Most flights are short so we get to do the most enjoyable bits (take off and landing) many times a day which ironically is one of the advantages of flying the smaller less glamorous stuff and being at the lower end of the food chain. It is true that if you love flying and are a pilot you'll never work again.

I discovered that money did not buy me happiness and whilst I miss the 5 star hotels and holidays I once took (my holiday this year will be camping in Devon!), the TVR and all the other trappings you don't really need any of it and it certainly isn't worth spending 160 hours a month stuck in an office for it!

That said given your age and the state of the industry I wouldn't start training commercially yet. Timing in this industry is critical to maximising your chances of success. Go and get a degree or job you will enjoy, do a PPL or join the UAS and review the situation in a couple of years. Alternatively do join the military - much more exciting than civilian flying and better paid nowadays.

Most of all - never ever follow a career you're not interested in. I've got 2 days off this week from flying and I'm spending one of them at Biggin Hill watching aeroplanes go round and round...

We're all mad you see...

Desk-pilot

[quant]

would you like to spend all day looking into peoples mouths or would you prefer the view from the cockpit window?

good luck with your choice..

[Trolle]

Just as every pilot should always have an alternative while flying, every pilot should have an alternative with their career.

What I mean is that as an aspiring or current pilot there are too many external factors that can render your career obsolete. Because of this you should always have an alternative to your flying career. Industry tanks (like today), there goes your job; airline goes bust, there goes your job; medical fails, there goes your job.

My personal advice to anyone is that they should follow their dream, regardless of obstacles. Motivation, hard work, and determination goes a long way, dougy24 is proof this. Put it this way: don't lie on your deathbed and say, "I wish I had that." However, you are realistic and you should always have something to fall back on, something beyond aviation.

I attended a fancy aviation university in the US, got all my licenses, and got an airline job. However, I also studied general business. I flew for an airline, earned crap pay and was never home, but was living the dream. Then 9/11 came and I lost my job. People may be awed at pilot's abilities, but their skills are not coveted in the private sector. What can a pilot bring to a sales team or management team, when someone with 10 years experience is also applying? Employers wanted to hear about my flying experience, but could not see my skills in their workplace. I went back to school, got a management degree, got an offer to work in management at an airline and ended up with a PhD. Now I teach at the university and am looking to fly corporate in my free time.

If I could do it again I would learn a trade, something like carpenter, electrician, or some kind of science or engineer field. Then I would learn to fly on the cheap and try an airline job, but have my other background as an alternative.

You have the right attitude to be a pilot, but be cautious because you don't want to get yourself into a trap where you have an expensive pilot's license, no degree, and no job. You may end up doing some crap job and being bitter.

[Mikehotel152]

Sky Scratcher,

Well done on starting such an interesting thread, with informative and positive replies from the assembled Pprunes. May I say that your eloquence and balanced thinking suggests that you will do well in your career, whichever direction you find yourself heading.

I had a passion for planes, trains and automobiles from an early age, dreamed of being a pilot, toyed with the idea of joining the Forces, was put off by ignorant teachers and unfriendly recuitment officers, went to University with an open (empty) mind, and finally took the easy option and became a solicitor. I reasoned that as a solicitor I would have interesting, intellectually demanding job and get paid well, thereby allowing me the funds to pursue my real passions in my spare time.

After 5 years in the legal industry I realised that I had got it all wrong. I never looked forward to getting to my desk in the morning or seeing piles of files awaiting my attention. It became painfully obvious to me that the pros of doing a job have to outweigh the cons or you'll slowly grind yourself into the ground. And that's how I felt. It effected my personality and my marriage. All this was purely down to my perception of the job. Others in law feel very differently - my wife loves being a solicitor - but it wasn't for me. I simply could not spend another 45 years in a career that didn't motivate me and made me feel like I was wasting my life, whatever the financial benefits, perceived or otherwise. .

So, get as many nuggets of wisdom from this thread as you can, but your choice of career must be a personal decision and please do not commit yourself to a career as a Dentist unless you have a passion for it!

MH 152

[betpump5]

Apologies in advance for bringing this thread down to a certain level but I think (if you look hard enough) what I'm about to write may strike a few chords.

I was watching a re-run (again) of a Friends episode. Anyway, it is where the gang are in a hospital and Rachel (the lovely Miss Aniston) is chatting up a Gynaecologist. She is surprised that the guy has not had much success with relationships - even though he is attractive and a doctor.

His reply was an analogy with Rachel's waitress job - the comparison being that after an 8 hour shift of pouring coffee's, she would be sick of the sight of them when she gets home.

I guess the wannabes here that perceive an airline pilot as a glamorous job are the same ones that think being a gynaecologist would be pretty cool.

Unfortunately it won't always be Cheryl Cole or Megan Fox that walks through the door.

[CalsbergPilot86]

I sympathise with you completely! My parents where also keen for me o have other career options which I agreed with them. However, the overwhelming desire to fly for a living was enought for me to take on the challenge.

As some posters have already pointed out a military flying career could be an option. The medical requirements are often a lot tougher than in the civilian world so my first advice would be to look into these requirements.

There are also sponorship schemes available to bring the cost side of things down. If your looking to get straight into an airline job flying big jets this probably isn't the way for you. But again as many posters have already suggested it isn't always as glamorous as it looks.

If you do a little bit of homework you'll notice this group of companies were once part of a larger group that prided themselves on taking on young ambitious individuals like yourself.

www.rvl-group.com (http://www.rvl-group.com)
www.highlandairways.couk (http://www.highlandairways.couk)
www.atlanticairlines.co.uk (http://www.atlanticairlines.co.uk)

The Atlantic Airlines scheme I believe is only part sponsored now but still worth looking at. The other two are complete 'zero to hero' schemes incuding ground school and CPL/IR training. They all comprise of an approximatley 18 month term as a cadet in wich various company orientated duties will be performed. Depending on which company you join depends on what these duties are.

If you want any more 'inside' info onthe RVL scheme feel free to PM me.

What ever you decide good luck mate!:ok:

[Desk-pilot]

And I bet any one of those companies will provide a job that is bucketloads more fun than button pushing in an Airbus at FL350 all day! It's one of those points that many of us tend to forget but the truth is that the smaller the aircraft you fly, the more fun the flying is, makes you wonder why so many of us are so keen to get on jets asap. There's a lot to be said for them whirly props!

Nice post Carlsberg.

Desk-pilot