What do I need to start a flying school?

[The_Pharoah]

okay guys, I've been asked this question as a business opportunity based in one of the pac islands. Question is - what do I need to start and maintain a flying school? here's what I know:

- AOC (certification from the local CAAF)
- CFI (again certification and experience req'd)
- atleast 2 x Cessna 152, 2 x Cessna 172, maybe 1 x Duchess (how many pilot trainees can this cope with? how many a/c would you need for say 10 trainees?)
- ground instructor
- sim
- agreement for landing charges??
- obviously a local airport with facilities to cope incl parking space
- good weather

okay, what am I missing? don't worry about the startup financing, etc - I'm just thinking operational here. The plan is to offer GFPT all the way to possibly CPL plus ME/CIR.

Thanks

[Flying Binghi]

don't worry about the startup financing, etc ...

Yes, one needn't worry bout that, the customers will be lined up at the door every morning....the money will just pour in....:)

[Runaway Gun]

A couple of million dollars to lose? ;)

[PAPI-74]

Lease everything - aircraft wise by the block hour, then buy later on.
A good sim new is £250,000 FNPT2 - this will bring in the students.
An airline that will let you slap their logo's over everthing, with the promise that they will interview your students.

Building
Rates
Insurance - building and a/c
Fuel
Maint. - allow a fair bit as they tec all the time.
Instructors
Landing and app fees
Damages to aircraft
CAA anual fees
Computers and projectors
Marketing
Letterheads
Website:ouch:



Good luck!!!

[training wheels]

I hope you'll get new aircraft for your flight school. I've flown at two schools who have just recently acquired relatively new aircraft and they've been busy as! I think people generally don't mind paying more to fly new aircraft as indicated by these two schools I refer to.

[VH-XXX]

You will need a solid business plan, backed with good research.

Are there students in the area?
Competing companies?
Is it a wealthy area?

Reminds me of a guy who was operating a single R22 in area south of Sydney. Struggled to keep that one chopper going, apparently local area is full of retired wogs (his words) with fishing boats and no money for flying.

On the flip side his ex chopper pilot mate from the Navy an hour north of Sydney operating 4-5 x R22's absolutely flat out all the time. Why? A far more affluent area including a large number of farmers who made up significant parts of his student base.

[Torres]

First you need a viable, costed business plan, based on a proven available market! That plan, plus financial budgets will dictate the requirements.

at least 2 x Cessna 152, 2 x Cessna 172, maybe 1 x Duchess (how many pilot trainees can this cope with? how many a/c would you need for say 10 trainees?)

Viable minimum annual aircraft utilisation and hourly revenue yield is the first consideration. 4 x SE @ 600 hours pa = 2,400 hours; plus 1 x ME @ 750 hours pa = 3,150 revenue hours pa.

Looks like at least a minimum 21 to 25 full time students per year, every year with at least five to six instructors. With that fleet and staff you would also need approx $300,000 non debt equity to commence. Why $300,000 equity? Because that should represent a debt to equity ratio of approximately 1:1 (i.e. $300,000 equity plus $300,000 borrowings) as you will not be able to service any higher level of debt.

In answer to your original question: "What do I need to start a flying school?"

If you don't have market research, a viable business plan, achievable budgets and adequate equity, I recommend a cold shower and a long lie down! :ugh:

And that is probably the only reasonable, rational and sensible advice you will receive asking that question on PPRuNe! :ok:

[The_Pharoah]

thanks for the tips (I'll ignore the first two comments :rolleyes:), I have a financial background so you don't need to worry about that (incl the business plan, etc) which is why I put that in my original post. Lets just say I've been approached by investors who can spot a good business opp but aren't fully versed with the nuts and bolts of running a flying school. And just to clarify, there is a substantial demand for it at the potential location.

anyway, I'll take those quick stats under consideration. At the moment this is just in the draft/consideration phase so there's a way to go before anything happens.

Cheers

Pharoah

[Mr. Hat]

Pictures of big jets on the wall on short final.

Some testimonials from various students wearing cap and jacket about how they are now airline pilots.

A salesman - someone with the gift of the gab.

[Joker 10]

And very deep pockets

[coconut99]

You looking at competing with DC and WH's schools are you? Perhaps now’s a good time to get the tender for one of the Air Fiji hangars in Nausori and go from there. Only prob with that tho, is that its just too damn far from Suva for students to get there and back every day...and no one wants to live in Nausori.

Having been a student at PFS for the initial part of my training many many moons ago, every time I am back in the home land I see the same aircraft I flew during my time. So, if you can provide the facility, funds, infrastructure, staff, good aircraft (consider something different, such as pipers etc), and support...good luck to you.

coco

[glenb]

I ran a flying school over in Fiji, and one bit of advice. Dont even consider it unless you get a watertight agreement for aircraft maintenance sorted out. That will be the make or break of the operation.

[basementjaxx]

Ass-uming youre thinking bout getting it started in Fiji and furthermore, Nadi i think you need to ask the right questions to the roight people.

I've heard that with both PFS and AAT already there, third school may crowd airspace. The other two schools are already complaining bout not getting clearances for IF training and training a/c having to hold more often than not due to commercial traffic.

And with a crowded airspace and students with low hours, I hear there has been an increase in the number of occurrences reported.

Just a thought.

BJ

[The_Pharoah]

okay boys, cats outta the bag. We're looking at Nausori. However (given I'm IN Nausori at the moment on leave), the weather is crap!! that alone is a negative factor, esp during the ab initio part of training. :} thats why Nadi is preferable I guess.

however notwithstanding, there is potential for a flying school based at Nausori airport. whether this thing gets off the ground (pun intended) is another story, however at this point I'm in the analysis stage only. I've already stated the old adage 'pay peanuts, you get monkeys' but within budget.

anyway, gotta run - got more work to do.

[Lineboy4life]

I'd amagine you'll need to factor a little extra money into the budget for what ever bribe-ing will be required.:}

At a guess (corrupt officials/fuel & Maintance suppliers/land owners/Immigration) and who ever else could potentially gain financially by holding the show up. :uhoh:

This very real financial aspect is quite often overlooked when setting up shop in forien countries.

All the best.

[The_Pharoah]

yep, those are some of the reasons why we're looking at Nausori. WX is a major factor though as prev mentioned. I've been here for almost 5 days and its pi$$ed down every day :ugh: still though, proximity to Suva is a plus.

However long way to go. :ok:

[Lineboy4life]

what a load of crap. Have you ever been to Fiji?

Once - in the mid 90's for holiday purposes/market research with the intention of setting up a skydiving centre utilising a 182 (not unlike the operation in place now). We opted not to continue the business venture for various reasons, one of them being cautious feedback from resort operators/commissioning agents stating that this would be a real factor for us. We were looking at setting up on plantation island.

My comments were made in more of a generalised sense as the post refers to Islands in the Pacific, I apologise if my comments were out of line and again wishing all involved all the best.

lineboy

[propelled]

yeh that could be an option... and those other 2 schools in the west could do with some competition.. i've heard that it is quite expensive to train there.. I'm suprised more students dont come to oz or nz for their trg... but not sure how it equates now that the FJD has devalued the way it has...

hmmm Nausori... last time I was there I went into the Whistling Duck... taki taki taki... had my mobile phone pinched, and cant remember getting home..lol.. what a place...
cheers!
kaicolo.

[GNR]

ive been told: and i quote "to make a small amount of money in avaition, u need to large amount"

[Tinstaafl]

Operationally, what's required depends on what jurisiction your country of concern bases its regulations on. Using Fiji in this case, are the Fijian regs based on an US FAA, Australian CASA, NZ CAA or the old UK CAA rules (to pick 4 likely contenders), are they a completely indedependent set of rules developed in isolation, or are they some combination?

It makes a difference because the requirements for a flying school are remarkably different in the different jurisdictions. Under the US CFR14 Part 61 rules, for example, all that you would need is a Certified Flying Instructor (CFI in US terminology NOT Chief Flying Instructor as used in Oz or UK parlance) for single engine VFR instruction, a training aircraft, access to one of the US online exam providers and access to a Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) for licence issue flight tests. For multi and Instrument rating instruction you'd need a Multi Engine Instructor (MEI) and an Instrument Instructor (CFII). All three instructor certificates could be held by the same person, of course.

You would also need to be able to refer to the rules & regs, syllabus & exam/flight test guides(all available online).

Under Australian rules when I last did it, you needed an AOC for Aerial Work with a Flying School licence, an Operations Manual, a syllabus for each qualification you wish to be able to train for, a Chief Pilot, a Chief Flying Instructor, a suitable aircraft, access to the Oz online exam provider, suitable facilities including an office for the CFI, rules & regs, various bits of paperwork (eg student records, flight time records, maintenance tracking) and appropriate training equipment. The CP & CFI rules carry their own list of requirements. One advantage is that the CFI usually gets testing approval for GFPT, PPL & Night VFR.

So, what sort of regulatory system does Fiji use?

Oh, and of course no matter what rules you're under, you need insurance and a decent maintenance provider!