Gliding as alternative to Power [Archive]

cats_five

1st Jun 2009, 16:38

Your SEP hours might help you in that you are used to being in the air and so on, but you will have to go through the same 'in the air' training as everyone else to get solo, and then to pass the Bronze C flying test. However you should waltz through the Bronze C exam - unless you got your PPL so long ago you've forgotten the written stuff... You will already have an RT licence and be in practise using it, you do PFLs and hopefully your navigation will be fine so getting the XC endorsement should be OK.

Prepare yourself for the relative peace & quiet, for having to use the rudder pedals in the air, for there being (usually) no such thing as level flight and for no go-arounds...

BackPacker

1st Jun 2009, 18:49

Other things:
- No cleared take-off and a sedate take-off roll. With gliders it's the wingman lowering his arm and you're up and away in less than three seconds. Winch-launching that is.
- Lots of things in metric. Speeds, altitudes.
- A glider needs a lot of hands on the ground before it can be launched and after it has landed. Bring some tough boots - you'll be walking several miles each day retrieving gliders from the landing field and towing them to the take-off field.
- Landing can be mayhem. Everybody looking for a bit of grass inbetween the other gliders to put down. Left, right, center, landing short or over the heads of other gliders doesn't matter. Go-around is not an option.
- Most glider operations are completely non-radio. And as far as peace & quiet is concerned, well, you fly without a headset and flow/wind noise can be loud too.

Also your JAA Class II medical is more stringent than a glider medical, so it can be used instead of a glider medical.

ProfChrisReed

1st Jun 2009, 19:11

Just to expand on the lack of specified hours to "qualify". There are a range of "qualifications":

1. Flying solo. This is whenever the instructor thinks you are ready. Power experience might make this quite soon, if you're a good handling pilot.

2. Bronze. There is a requirement of 10 hrs solo or 25 launches (from memory, these numbers might be slightly off), followed by a fairly simple exam and a general flying test which will include launch failures and (from 12 year old memory) a simulated field landing. This is often thought to be the licence equivalent, though it's still very early days.

3. XC endorsement. Field selection training, usually in a motor glider (to allow go-rounds), navigation training (usually the same flight). After this you can fly out of gliding range.

4. Silver: 5hr flight, 1,000m height gain, 50km cross-country flight. With Silver, you're usually accepted as competent at other clubs, though you're likely to be made to take a check flight if you fly somewhere new or want to fly that club's gliders.

5. Gold, Diamonds: for 300km/500km flights, 3,000m/5,000m height gains. These are cumulative.

I'm part way through 5 after 12 years, and soon might rate myself as generally competent.

oversteer

1st Jun 2009, 21:50

- Lots of things in metric. Speeds, altitudes.

Not in the UK for instruments, it's all knots and feet. The only thing is task distances (usually measured in km).

boofhead

1st Jun 2009, 21:57

It is more expensive too. You pay for the launch, and some flights might be 15 minutes. Multiply the rate per launch by 3 or 4 to get the equivalent for powered flight.
A glider pilot is a better pilot because she knows how to fly her machine better. Transitioning to powered flight later is a doddle.

sollas

1st Jun 2009, 23:01

have a look on the British Gliding association web site. It should give you more information.

Hope you enjoy it, Gliding is fab :)

Mark1234

1st Jun 2009, 23:42

I'll pick boofhead up on that; it is definately not more expensive! Yes you pay for the launch, and while you're training the emphasis is on shorter flights (all the hard bits are at the start and the end, let's face it), it's still cheaper. Once you get used to staying up there, it's a lot more cost effective. (I fly/flew both, more powered now). One thing it is expensive in is time however (compared to powered). It's not a turn-the-key exercise, and you need particular conditions to stay up (not all VMC days are necessarily any good for gliding).

It is a somewhat different game, though you'll have a huge headstart, you'll use your feet more, look outside more, and mapread more, rather than doing stuff by the numbers. You'll also get there quicker if you don't turn up with a 'I fly powered, I know it all already' attitude - not suggesting you have that attitude, but I've witnessed the groans at launchpoint when such a pilot arrives/departs :)

boofhead

2nd Jun 2009, 00:16

You are right, if you fly a glider that has the performance to soar and the conditions allow it, but many flights will be short, especially during the beginning period. I know because my daughter is learning to fly gliders and her instructors do not give her a chance to do soaring, nor are they happy to allow her to solo. Usually there are people waiting their turn and they become disenchanted if they have to wait too long, letting my daughter know after she lands (she is 16 and an easy target).
We fly together using a C150 or C172 and the rate is not too bad. She has soloed both and is working toward her Private, but gliding is her real love.

mstram

2nd Jun 2009, 00:37

"I know because my daughter is learning to fly gliders and her instructors do not give her a chance to do soaring, nor are they happy to allow her to solo. Usually there are people waiting their turn and they become disenchanted if they have to wait too long, letting my daughter know after she lands (she is 16 and an easy target)."

I'd say it's time to look for another gliding club :sad:

liam548

2nd Jun 2009, 01:05

Other things:

- Landing can be mayhem. Everybody looking for a bit of grass inbetween the other gliders to put down. Left, right, center, landing short or over the heads of other gliders doesn't matter. Go-around is not an option.
.

Are there many incidents with gliders then, accidents etc..? Never seem to hear of any, much like balloons.

RatherBeFlying

2nd Jun 2009, 01:56

Learning how to find lift and use it effectively; then move on to the next thermal will keep you learning for quite some time. Then there's the cross-countries and occasional farmer visits:O

I found my first landout a bigger deal than my first solo as you really do have to do quite a bit of thinking for yourself.

Mind you, I look upon a landout as a more sedate affair than a forced landing in power. There's a big difference in time to think things through when you're coming down at 120'/min instead of 800'/min;)

When the temp is in the 80s, landing out at an airport and getting a aerotow back home is easier than a ground retrieve.

oversteer

2nd Jun 2009, 10:57

Usually there are people waiting their turn and they become disenchanted if they have to wait too long, letting my daughter know after she lands (she is 16 and an easy target).

A shame. Maybe time to find a new gliding club. I would have loved to start before 16, a few years perfecting soaring and speed flying and maybe she could look at flying in competitions and junior teams etc.

With landings it's true that you must always be flexible with your eventual touchdown point. Unexpected sink, wind gradient, another glider landing, inattentive persons at the launch point.. but it is taught from the very first circuits that you must always be willing to vary your circuit and touchdown point in response to the environment.

wrt costs- it took me about 60 flights to solo, but a 6 month gap didn't help - you could probably do it in half that if you have the right aptitude. Cost me about £1200 to get that far (all aerotow). Was then another 40 flights before my cross-country endorsement and being allowed to into 'the big world'. It is a bit of a pain to pay £40 for a 20 minute flight on a cold winters' day, but once you start soaring the cost per hour goes down a lot; it would cost me about £90 to take a club glider on a three hour flight; if my club did winch launches that would probably be closer to £60.

Mark1234

2nd Jun 2009, 23:55

Boofhead: As others have said, you may need to look around. I did also mention that gliding is time intensive - the waiting around to flying ratio is not so good, which is the main reason I fly mostly powered these days. first love would still be gliding in many ways. Shame on those concerned for venting on a young one - waiting around is frustrating, but even so. Remember however, that generally gliding is run as a club - one cannot turn up and play, one has to take part in all the other stuff that facilites everyone flying - wing running, fetching, etc.

She will still be fitting a lot more flying into less hours in the air, and compared like for like (to hiring from a school), I certainly found it cheaper. And yes, it sounds like she's at the most frustrating part - between early solo and cross country is a pain. Anything will soar however, even the venerable K13's, arguably they'll do better than the modern glass types. Where the older types fall short is when trying to fly faster (i.e. go somewhere in a hurry).

Now to the landings: Approach speeds are usually in the 50's (knots), stall speeds in the 30's, and landing distances in tens of metres. Gliders rarely constrain themselves to runways either. It's bad etiquette to overfly a landed glider unless necessary, generally we go to one side or the other. There are actually rules (IIRC you go right of a landed a/c until there's no more room on the right, but it's been a while).
My point is it may look chaotic, but if you're inside the system, it's predictable, and not half as mad as it may appear to someone who's used to dealing with heavier, stubby winged aircraft, and their attendant performance / constraints :E

Lastly, a little teaser; in gliding terms a heniously expensive holiday - about 1000ukp for 15hrs sat in a nice duo discus with an equally nice chap in the back to keep me out of trouble (necessary given the environment)... everything thrown in, oxy the lot. Imagine sitting at 15,000, perfectly still air, eerie silence, looking at this:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2986274812_40830e9445.jpg

Put1992

3rd Jun 2009, 12:42

Lastly, a little teaser; in gliding terms a heniously expensive holiday - about 1000ukp for 15hrs sat in a nice duo discus with an equally nice chap in the back to keep me out of trouble (necessary given the environment)... everything thrown in, oxy the lot. Imagine sitting at 15,000, perfectly still air, eerie silence, looking at this:

Are there any course available abroad where you can learn to glide, say over a week, and make a holiday of it? Or is it best to learn beforehand?

I'm looking to do some powered flying abroad at some point, but, for views like your picture, I wouldn't mind doing gliding on top of powered.

BackPacker

3rd Jun 2009, 13:20

Are there any course available abroad where you can learn to glide, say over a week, and make a holiday of it? Or is it best to learn beforehand?

Several Dutch organizations offer mid-week (mo-fr) courses with the opportunity to camp (tent/caravan) on-site. I assume that the same thing takes place in other countries, and in the UK.

I did one such week at Salland last year and am going to do another one this year. Price is 310 euros for the full weeks course, including 15 winch-launches but excluding insurance, camping fees, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Beginnersopleiding - Aero Club Salland (http://aeroclubsalland.nl/zelf-leren-vliegen/beginnersopleiding)

The other place in the Netherlands that offers a lot of these packages is Terlet:

Nationaal Zweefvliegcentrum Terlet (http://www.terlet.nl)

Of course, when you come to the Netherlands the dominant language will be Dutch. You need to inform specifically if they're going to be able to accommodate English-speaking students.

Mark1234

3rd Jun 2009, 13:51

The folks in Omarama NZ do courses, though if you're going to go that far, I personally would suggest getting the basics first - it would be a pity to be in such an awe inspiring environment, and be focussed on the basics of flying, rather than enjoying the full experience.

There are clubs in aus (gliding club of victoria in benalla) that do intensive courses also.

I don't know about closer to the Uk.

Fly-by-Wife

3rd Jun 2009, 13:52

Are there any course available abroad where you can learn to glide, say over a week, and make a holiday of it?

I know that the Peak District isn't "abroad", but I've done a couple of week-long courses at Derby & Lancs Gliding Club (http://http://www.dlgc.org.uk/flying/courses.asp) and thoroughly enjoyed it. I can definitely recommend it! :ok:

FBW

ProfChrisReed

3rd Jun 2009, 17:14

Put1992, abroad is not necessarily better, partly because foreign clubs which are set up for UK visitors tend to be in the more extreme gliding conditions (mountain flying, long cross-country flights etc.). As someone else wrote, you probably only get the benefit of visiting those places if you're already quite experienced.

I see you're in Birmingham, and if that's England and not Alabama you're within a 1 hour drive of a number of clubs - see "Find a Club" on Welcome to the British Gliding Association (http://www.gliding.co.uk).

Most will fly only at weekends and a mid-week day (usually Wednesdays), but some fly week round during the Summer. Of those near Birmingham the closest are Stratford, Bicester (the BGA training centre I recall) and Shenington down the A40, the Gliding Centre as Husbands Bosworth (near M6/M1 junction) and Midland on the Long Mynd. Any of these would be good candidates for learning.

I'd suggest the best approach would be to make a visit or two to likely places (maybe midweek if your'e thinking of doing this intensively, as weekends are much busier and run differently) to get a feel for the club. Chat to the people there, and go for the one which seems most comfortable - some clubs are highly organised, others informal, and you need to be comfortable with your training environment as you'll be doing it by the day.

Of these I'd say Midland at the Mynd is the most awkward to learn at because it's a hilltop site which will present more challenging conditions. On the other hand, once you can fly there the flatland sites will seem easy.

For a club you can fly at once or twice a week until you've learn't (bearing in mind that after 12 years I'm still learning and expect to do so until I stop flying) Stratford or Shenington have a strong club feel. I only know the Gliding Centre and Bicester by reputation, but I'd say those might be the most structured if you want to make a continuous course over some weeks.

Bear in mind that a week would probably get you solo if you already have a PPL, given good weather, but that you need to be rather more experienced before you can say that you're also "qualified" as a glider pilot (see my previous post).

The other advice I'd give is to tell the club that you're a PPL - this will spare you the tedium of basic effects of controls, and will also alert the instructor to the kinds of thing to watch out for (particularly non-use of rudder and flaring too high and too vigorously).

In comparison with power it's pretty cheap to try - Stratford will give you a winch-launched trial lesson for £50, as will Shenington, and the others will launch you by aerotow for £75-£90.

3rd Jun 2009, 18:54

In comparison with power it's pretty cheap to try - Stratford will give you a winch-launched trial lesson for £50, as will Shenington, and the others will launch you by aerotow for £75-£90.

Well that is about £500 per hour for a winch launch flight (average flight 6 mins) and about £ 360 per hour for an aerotow (average flight 15 mins) ....what you mean its pretty cheap??
Gliding Clubs who charge these outrageous prices for a genuine "trial lesson", rather than a jolly, and not going to get many new members.
UV

shortstripper

3rd Jun 2009, 19:22

Had my first proper day's gliding for 14 years today and Wow! what fun!!!

I last soloed a glider in 1989 and last flew one in 1995 (except for a passenger flight last week). Today I turned up at Parham in time to help pull out the gliders, and the Falke SF25C motor glider. I always used to be the first on the field, but these days I have kids to drop off at school and other commitments. Anyway, first off, I went for a flight in the Falke to have a site check. I'm a current TMG pilot, but the T31m was a different beast altogether and used to climb ... unlike the poor old Falke that sort of slowly levitates! Anyway that bit went well and just a couple of circuits to prove I wasn't having a lucky day is all that's needed for a sign off. I then did a stint on the log, and before I knew it, it was my time to fly in a glider. They've changed a bit since I was flying them. Most of my gliding in the 80's was in fabric covered gliders such as K13's, so the modern glass ones were quite stunning in comparison (though I have to admit, I still love the older ones!). The launch was by aero tow, and was again the first since the 80's. I can't believe how well it went! No instructor intevention, but boy! was it taxing! I was sweating by the time we released at 2500'. Everything just seemed to fall into place, and I relly felt relaxed and in perfect control. I thought I'd been "enginalised" after all these years, but no! I really did feel at home :O.

My instructor has signed my old and very tatty log with a great comment saying that all I need are a couple of "eventuality" checks before re-solo! I think he's being gracious, and that I had a good day ... But hey! What a day!

If you've never flown gliders, or are thinking of returning .... I can't recommend it enough. I'd honestly forgotten what fun it was!!!!

SS :ok:

mstram

3rd Jun 2009, 20:39

tinpilot

3rd Jun 2009, 20:51

BGA clubs can only sell trial memberships, not trial flights. If it's a one-off treat for Grandma, it's a good earner for the club; if you're serious about learning to fly, the included 3 months* membership is very good value.

Edward

*usually 3, sometimes 1, check with the club.

cirruscrystal

3rd Jun 2009, 21:52

Have you considered going down the Touring motor glider router? This way you will considerably lower your hourly costs at 12litres/hour, just need to find a share to join as clubs tend to charge extortionate rates per hour relatively.

Once you have your TMG rating you can then also keep your SEP rating alive, whilst learning gliding skills.

All the best and safe flying:ok:

ProfChrisReed

3rd Jun 2009, 21:58

From my days on a gliding club committee, we always calculated the cost of a trial lesson to ensure there was no "profit" margin over and above normal membership costs. Thus a typical winch trial lesson might be two launches + 1 month's membership. If annual membership is £480, £40 of the cost is membership fees, and the remainder the launch cost, say £15, total £55.

Calculating hourly costs is not as simple as with power flying, because the launch cost is fixed regardless of flight time. I'm currently averaging about £15 per hour in launch costs this year, but that ignores my club membership and the cost of owning my own glider.

I used to reckon that flying a club glider for 30 hours per year, once solo and soaring, cost me in total about £1,250 in today's money, or £40-ish per hour. But it's not a linear rate. If as sole owner of a glider I fly only 10 hours per year, that will cost me over £200 per hour. If I fly 100 hours, it will only cost me about £30 per hour. If I make 200 hours (no chance because of work) I'll be below £20 per hour. This is all aerotow launching - winch launching is cheaper if you are good at picking the right time to launch and are good at connecting with that first thermal.

To give a real example, in 2006-7 I flew around 50 hours at a total cost of about £2,000, including the running costs of owning the glider. If I'd syndicated the glider with one other person and flown the same number of hours, my costs would have dropped to around £1,500.

If you really wanted to fly on the cheap, you could buy an older wooden glider for £1,500, but your annual insurance, maintenance costs and club membership would still be around £1k. 20 winch launches would cost you around £350 edit: correction, £150], and if you picked your days and soared from each flight you could do 100 hours - £13.50 [edit: correction, £11.50] per hour. I'd be impressed if anyone got lower than this.

The bottom line is that gliding is comparatively cheap (per hour) if you do enough of it. Or more accurately, for a budget over £1,500 p.a. you can do more hours than flying power.

4th Jun 2009, 00:32

Where do you come up with the "15 minutes average flight" ?

Having done literally thousands of them! They are not usually soaring flights and, if they are, then they are not usually that long....Many are flown for groups in non-soaring conditions and in the evenings when soaring has finished....Anyway you know that dont you...
These trial lessons are a "jolly" and invariably a one off, so people pay for it on that basis.

In comparison with power it's pretty cheap to try - Stratford will give you a winch-launched trial lesson for £50, as will Shenington, and the others will launch you by aerotow for £75-£90.
It is that statement I refute...its not cheap to try, at these rates, compared to powered flying!

20 winch launches would cost you around £350,
What? £17.50 each!!!! Even Lashams are only £8.25 (See their website).

UV
mstram..Just seen you are in Canada ...maybe its different there!

cats_five

4th Jun 2009, 06:07

"Well that is about £500 per hour for a winch launch flight (average flight 6 mins) and about £ 360 per hour for an aerotow (average flight 15 mins) ....what you mean its pretty cheap??"

I've no idea how you come up with those figures. A winch launch is £7 at my club, flying is 40p/minute, if there is no lift a circuit is 5 minutes on average. So, 5 minutes flying = £7 + 5*£0.4 = £9. 5 minutes is 1/12 of an hour, so per hour that's £108. A 2,000' aerotow is £23.30, that gives in the region of 20 minutes flying, so the total is £31.30 - under £65 per hour.

And the per minute charges are capped at £60, so the maximum cost for a winch flight is £67 and an aerotow £83.30.

Fake Sealion

4th Jun 2009, 08:39

How common are group operated gliders in the UK?

What is the split between equity and non-equity groups?

In a typical club, how is the "flying programme" determined -for example how is the tug time split between club owned gliders and privately owned gliders?

Thanks in advance

FS

chrisN

4th Jun 2009, 11:10

Most gliders are privately owned, and most of those are in what you call equity groups (usually termed glider syndicates in our world). A smaller number, but growing, are single ownership.

Non-equity shares are unusual, but not entirely unknown. They typically arise when a glider is doing less flying that it could and its owner allows one or two friends to share by paying a share only of annual running costs. I never heard of anyone setting up such an arrangement as a way of starting a syndicate. Don’t rely upon finding one if you plan to take up gliding. Clubs are in effect large non-equity groups, and that is the route for people who can afford the costs on a day to day basis but not a capital investment. Almost all clubs have one or more single seat gliders for this purpose.

A flying programme as you ask does not exist. For people wanting to fly club gliders, there is usually a daily list – first come first served. A few clubs have a booking system. I never heard of any club allocating tow capacity between private and club gliders. It just doesn’t work that way. There have been times when so many people want launches that a period of priority is given to club gliders by pushing them to the front of the queue when they land, and other times when a cross country group, especially a competition start, is given priority. Otherwise, most places launch in the order gliders arrive at the launch point.

HTH. ChrisN.

BackPacker

4th Jun 2009, 12:42

Most gliders are privately owned, and most of those are in what you call equity groups (usually termed glider syndicates in our world). A smaller number, but growing, are single ownership.

To add, an important reason for sharing the ownership, but also the operation of a glider between (at least) two persons is to have somebody on the ground to come and fetch you with the trailer if you land "out".

With single ownership you always have to make arrangements before every flight just in case this happens.

modelman

4th Jun 2009, 13:02

Been quoted £110 for a whole day and 6-8 launches,doesn't sound too bad for instruction.
MM

ProfChrisReed

4th Jun 2009, 15:30

[previous post edited to correct my bad numbers - this may explain my final glides!]

cats_five

4th Jun 2009, 17:31

To add, an important reason for sharing the ownership, but also the operation of a glider between (at least) two persons is to have somebody on the ground to come and fetch you with the trailer if you land "out".

With single ownership you always have to make arrangements before every flight just in case this happens.

It's a nice idea but unless people live in convenient places or are retired doesn't necessarily work in practise. If you are going to go XC then it's not your couple of hours, it's your day with the glider. Is your partner going to hang around all day waiting for you to get back or find a field? Probably not - they will go and do something with their family.

If I happen to be around I usually happily go and get anyone who has landed out although I don't own any of their glider as that's what I'd like to happen when I land out. Currently I've helped retrieve more gliders than I've had landouts.

Whilst there are probably more syndicated gliders at my club than singly-owned, the ones with a single owner generally do more hours per year. They are the gliders more likely to be taken on expeditions and flown XC.

ProfChrisReed

4th Jun 2009, 20:35

I've often thought that the best syndicate would be two gliders between four partners, or maybe three between six. It's rare to see more than half the club members, even on a good day. Intuitively, that kind of syndicate would seem to almost guarantee availability except on the most glorious of days, obvious some time in advance.

Retrieves have never been a problem - glider pilots seem to quite like helping each other out, and the promise of beer is always effective. Lack of a pre-agreed crew is more a psychological barrier than anything else; since I made rigging gear which allows me to rig and derig solo, I've realised that my fall-back option is to hitch/taxi/train back and then fetch the aircraft myself. I've never had to do this, but the knowledge that I could has let me set off XC much more often than previously. I have a dream 500k planned - Rougham (Suffolk)-Sarnesfield (Herefordshire)-Rougham, most of the width of England out and return. If the right day turns up I'm going for it, crew or not, and will write off the following day in advance.

gpn01

4th Jun 2009, 21:24

studentpilotmcuk

4th Jun 2009, 21:47

Some gliding clubs within the UK have various schemes. You buy a membership and a scheme, you pay X amount of money (prices differ from club to club), and thats it you work through your scheme and then you top up... job done.:ok:, however there is a slight draw back, I know from experience with flying K13, K21, K7s ect that your only up about 7 or 8 mins, which is great... just what you need. I learned a lot from "up round & down flights. :) however you could find yourself towards the end of the year with too many hours left on your scheme and not enough time to get the scheme finished, thus you could end up loosing money :ugh:

Afterwards why don't you consider getting a taildraggers licence, and go tugging. (just an idea for you to think about)

I sincerely hope this helps you and wish the very best of luck in flying gliders.

Regards SPMCUK

2hotwot

6th Jun 2009, 18:23

Powered flying and gliding are pretty much the same cost if you include the hours of labour required. Powered flight involves getting in aircraft and flying it, gliding involves pushing aircraft, launching others, keeping logs, and generally working hard. The balance for this work is made up with the financial cost, gliding is cheaper. Add to this hard work the benefit of good camaraderie and increased fitness and make your choice.

Many power pilots will be surprised at the level of experience amongst the gliding instructor community and their ability as airmen/airwomen in plain and simple airmanship. Aerobatics is not uncommon and spinning is regularly practiced!

So if your dream is centred on the idea of flying long straight legs in an aircraft with autopilot and glass cockpit, all whilst talking professionally to controllers ('cause I hear they give you better clearances then) and following complex procedures then gliding is not for you. Oh and with power you get the chance to go around from a screwed up approach too.

However if you just like flying for flying's sake and if your dream is to be thermalling with a bird of prey on your wingtip, respecting the dynamics of our atmosphere and generally marvelling in the joy of silent flight and the beauty of our world, then gliding might be for you.

I particularly recommend the few moments of quiet elation that overtakes you after your glider rolls to a halt after the landing run, when you are on your own in silence (unless there are skylarks) awaiting the retrieve crew; now that is what I call contentment. Try it....

Jim - who came to gliding early and late......

gpn01

6th Jun 2009, 22:02

Something else not always considered by the power fraternity (whose sole calculation seems to be in £ per flying hour) is that glider pilots have more fun per hour - soaring, ridge running, wave flying, aerobatics, competition flying, spot landings, field landings, expeditions, etc. etc.

IFMU

7th Jun 2009, 01:13

Soaring in my book is the second best flying, right behind helicopters. But when you figure in the fun per unit dollar soaring wins hands down.

-- IFMU

mary meagher

7th Jun 2009, 22:14

MM, if you decide on Shenington, hope to see you there! Like most gliding clubs that operate 7 days a week, during the week we have professional staff, Derek or Dick, and Kath who is the winch driver. Weekends you will find we all take turns on a rota, helping out. Paul the Farmer, who owns the airfield keeps a fatherly eye on us, he has a rare sense of humor.

We do the training, using a K21 or K13, mostly winch launching, but aerotows are available. There is a ridge quite near (the airfield was known during WWII as RAF Edgehill, and the Whittle Jet was test flown there.) One intrepid pilot flew his 5 hour silver endurance flight on our ridge in February! Brrrr!

Not much problem with airspace, a usual first cross country of 50k might be planned to Husbands Bosworth, or to Aston Down. Winch launch for a club member costs £7.

Mary

Fly-by-Wife

7th Jun 2009, 23:50

One intrepid pilot flew his 5 hour silver endurance flight on our ridge in February! Brrrr!

He must have been bored stiff as well as frozen stiff!! :eek:

No offense to your ridge, and I'm sure the scenery is breathtaking, but I've done some ridge-soaring at Camphill, and it gets mind-numbingly boring after an hour or so. 5 hours - I hope he interspersed it with something to keep the mind alive, like beating up the ridge at low-level! :E

FBW

mary meagher

8th Jun 2009, 07:44

He did!

I agree with you about ridge soaring. Not only boring, but dangerous.

When meeting another aircraft head on, both should turn right ----- except the one that can't, because he would hit the ridge!

At Dunstable, the ridge is shared with all sorts of flying tablecloths, not to mention models. We occasionally share with sensible hang-gliders and a model flying group. I was towing up a K-13 once, using the ridge lift to assist the climb, saw a glider coming toward us, realised suddenly that it was a LOT CLOSER THAN I THOUGHT because it was a model! The chap on the ground with his radio control suffered a certain anxiety as well, because he put his craft into some really exciting manoevers to gain our attention......

For Ridge Soaring par excellence, visit Talgarth, in Wales, the Black Mountains Gliding Club. An extraordinary site, with ridges that work well in nearly every wind direction, you can stay up for hours and when you have been truly checked out and know the dangers, you can travel all over the Brecon Beacons, as well as contacting wave, in which case, both height and distance beckon.

And then, of course, there is Aboyne.

snapper1

8th Jun 2009, 20:44

And now there is Edensoaring, the new gliding club near Penrith, Cumbria. Their ridge is 50 kms long. If you get 'bored' with that you can hop over to the Lake District for a scenic tour, or get into the wave and go up to FL195 for an even better view - check out the igc logger traces on the BGA ladder. Here's one 2009-05-07 957XE0M1.igc (http://www.bgaladder.co.uk/dnload.asp?DSN=2009-05-07 957XE0M1.igc)]

Or come to Camphill this month for 'Vintage Week'. Very old gliders flown mainly by very old glider pilots. We once had 31 of them flying together on the ridge in a rather sporting westerly. I dont think any of them complained of being 'bored' with that!

bad bear

9th Jun 2009, 05:54

I agree with you about ridge soaring. Not only boring, but dangerous.

Mary, try running your local ridge from Lower Clopton ( nr Bidford) all the way to Bath Racecourse with a NW wind and then tell me its boring ! It only needs a 9 nm tow into wind from where you are, and you might get back too if there is even a weak thermal to drift down wind and homeward.
Lots of people do that ridge run when the wind is 290/15 and I have never heard of anyone being bored. Flight Details (http://www.bgaladder.co.uk/dscore.asp?FlightID=18639)
If that does not get you going, try the Southdowns from Petersfield to Eastbourne not above 1,500' QNH. Neither boring nor dangerous.Why not drive to Parham when the wind is N or NE @ 15 kts and try it? Even the Chilterns can be fun if you cross the gaps and go to Dunstable and back from Booker (Shep used to do that in his K6e every month when he was young).
I agree with snapper1 Edensoaring is prety exciting too with a ridge 300km possible in beautiful countryside.

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