Best shift patterns

[Cruise Contrail]

Hi,

I'm interested in anyone's views on the best shift pattern to work, to cover a H24 operation. What works best for you?

I'm working 4-on 4-off (2x 12hr days and 2x 12hr nights) which is is ok, but weekends-off seem to be far and few between.

I've heard about other patterns - I think EZY do it - where you do 5 on, then 4 off then something else... Can anyone let me know?

Cheers! :)

[greuzi]

Once did a 4am-3pm Tues-Fri.

Long weekend every week. Gruelling hours and early to bed in the week, but you can push hard on 4 days. The rest was covered by a nightshift (5's) and a weekend shift (reduced ops).

Depends upon what has to be managed, controlled, coordinated. You will find it hard to get the answer here but surely the caravanners down your way actually want a weekend shift so they have the place to themselves in the week?

Do know a guy working for a major courier company in Aruba. He works the hours we all want. His 3hrs of daily work is done before the sun hits the horizon every morning....

[dc9-32]

Start on a Monday.

2 DAYS, 2 NIGHTS, 5 OFF
2 DAYS 3 NIGHTS 4 OFF
3 DAYS 2 NIGHTS 5 OFF

Then back to the start

[merlinxx]

Don't confuse a duty day with a day off:ugh: If you finish a night shift after 0001LT it is a duty day! A day off is a day free of all duty:ok:

[Buster66]

Ref days off, some companies roster:
2 DAYS, 2 NIGHTS, REST AFTER LAST NIGHT, 4 OFF
2 DAYS 3 NIGHTS, REST AFTER LAST NIGHT, 3 OFF
3 DAYS 2 NIGHTS, REST AFTER LAST NIGHT, 4 OFF

Ho hum.

I find this pattern works well as it seems like "time on/time off"...

[call100]

M T W T F S S
D D D D R R R
R R R R N N N
N R R R D D D
R N N N R R R

Nice for time off and Weekends are not so scarce.. 12 Hour shifts though..:ok:

[plans123]

Beware of the EWTD. ........ 8 hour shifts are a comin..

E=7am - 3pm
L=3pm - 11pm
N=11pm - 7am

E E L L N N 4 off

:ok:

[BladePilot]

Worked the 2days 2nights 12hr shift pattern (I recall it was called the continental shift pattern) for years and really enjoyed it.
2days 0700hrs - 1900hrs then 2nights 1900hrs - 0700hrs the swing from day to night was like a day off for me I'd get up around 0700hrs and have an afternoon kip (2 hours or so) before heading in for my first night shift. after my first night shift I'd sleep all day then back in for second night shift. After second night shift I'd sleep till around 1000 or 1100hrs then get up and have a 'normal' day then enjoy another three off. Seemed to me like I was hardly at work. Trouble with this system is it is manpower hungry and can actually cost the employer a bit more than other shift patterns. We were also able to maximise our annual leave by just taking 4 shifts off we had almost two weeks (12 days) to go off on our jollies. Overtime was good when we covered others leave it would mean either doing 4days 2nights or 2days 4nights depending on which pattern we were on.:ok:
I've worked in aviation all my adult life, what's a weekend? I'd much rather have time off when others are working it's much easier to get around town and such like.

[Big Tudor]

Worked 2days, 2nights, 4off, also worked the 4/5 option at BY in the late 90's. Preferred the 4/5. Weekends were either totally free or totally working. Also meant you could slot in a couple of O/T shifts without taking too much of a hit on your time off.

Another variation for 24hr cover was the RAF MATO pattern.

Day1 = Afternoon
Day2 = Morning + Night
Day3 = Rest
Day 4 = Afternoon
Day 5 = Morning + Night
Day 6 = Rest
Day 7 = Off
Day 8 = Off

The only good thing about this was you always had hangover recovery time before afternoons! :uhoh:

[TheMaskedDispatcher]

No contest . . 2Days, 2Nights, 4off (12 hr 6-18/18-06).

Though if 8hrs becomes 'EuroLaw' the industry is buggered, imagine all the extra people they will have to employ to cover a 24hour industry!! *returns from cloud-cuckoo-land*

T-M-D

[Tyrekicker2]

You still work the same number of hours per month on 8 hour shifts as on 12, so don't normally need more people. You can gain more flexibility to peaks too.

Having worked both systems, the 8 hours roster meant I could get a round of golf in everyday if i wanted :D

[dc9-32]

H & SE can't seem to help, so anyone know of a rule which forbids night workers (12hrs) doing 5 nights. Example would be 5 off, 5 nights, 4 off

[merlinxx]

European Working Time Directive :mad:

Still to be discussed regarding shift workers, not just aviation:ugh:

[call100]

Doubt there will be much change in the present climate......

[pzu]

12 hour shifts - 2 - 2 - 3,

start days Mon x 2, OFF Wed x 2 nights Fri x 3

off Mon x 2 days Wed x 2 OFF Fri x 3

nights Mon x 2 off Wed x 2 days Fri x 3

off Mon x 2 nights Wed x 2 off Fri x 3

= 168 hrs every 28 = 42hr week - can adjusted with leave to
achieve nominal 37.5 or whatever

Gives 1 short (am Fri to am Mon) & 1 LONG (pm Thurs to pm Mon)
w/end per 28 days

Depending on location/work rate the 3 DAY w/end can be FUN as can
the 3 NIGHTS

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

[Austin_Danger_Powers]

8,5 hour shifts.

6 days on - 3 days off.

more or less E E L L N N

[merlinxx]

That is 7 days on then 3 off. 10 day rotation which requires 6 bodies to cover for leave/trng etc. Don't argue, we ran this pattern for over 10 years (old BEA/BOAC/BA
system) If your going to screw up a day for 8 hrs + 30 mins handover, rather screw
up a day for 12.5 hrs with more time off. 1 hr handover time against 1.5 hrs handover time (that doesn't count the handover prep time which is normally another wairted non
productive 30 mins per shift):ugh:

[Phileas Fogg]

2 days followed by 2 nights has always been the best or the worst ways to go, whether that be 4 on, 4 off or 4 on, 2 off followed by 4 on, 6 off or whatever depends on the nature of the work, often it can take 2 days to 'sober up' after 48 hours in 4 days so 4 off, or a rest day followed by 3 off, does seem to suit the majority.

My last 12 hour shift job was all days, no nights, it was 4 x 12 hour days followed by 4 clear days off but the 12 hour days, allowing for travelling time etc. workied out to 4, back to back, days of 14 hours out of the house, 10 hours of in the house during which one needed to prepare a meal(s) sh1t and shave etc. and that became soul destroying and it really did take a full 2 days to 'sober up' thereafter.

I also, previous to that, worked in a European commune where 8 hour shifts were the maximum, unless one's bosses applied to the authorities which one's bosses seemed more intent on building an empire than realising common sense, and that became ridiculous, in 8 hours one hardly broke in to a sweat and then one had to endure 16 hours off, followed by 24 hours off etc, (2 x E, 2 x L, 2 x N) with little to do but kick heels until time to come to work again, comparible to crew members being given 24 hours rest down route, they're awake after 12-16 hours then have to kick their heels, whilst remaining 'fresh', before coming back to work again but just as they come back to work they'd much rather be back in bed!

But, it has to be said, if one has an objection to working weekends then perhaps they're in the wrong industry.

[747-436]

Used to work 12 hours 4 on 4 off a few years ago. Best shift pattern going. And fortunatly we all decided that we would rather do 4 nights in a row rather than doing nights on all shift patterns.
So did DDDD XXXX NNNN XXXX much better if you don't mind the hit of 4 nights, and better for your body clock as you only hit nights every 12 or so days rather than every 7 or so!

I do miss working half the year, now I am back to reality on Monday to Friday!

[alley]

Can anyone advise on how to save my annual leave from being eaten away by my boss.
Im currently working a 4 on 4 off pattern and the annual leave policy is based on working days. therefore if i apply for 12 days leave only 4 working days should be cut from my leave bank.
His argument is that its unaccebtable and wants to only deduct the weekends (being fri/sat) which will fall during the leave requested days, thus getting my leave balance down by 10 days instead of 4.

i need a good come back. :(

did anyone have this prob b4?

[merlinxx]

You must be working for one of the Ops Support Cos in DXB, they all have that attitude:ugh:

[WiganWarrior]

Some interesting ideas here as I am looking at different options for the shifts here as we speak.

For 2 years I worked 7 Days/7 Nights/14 Off (12 hour shifts), of course this was the military and therefore wasn't questioned...... very tiring but 2 weeks "holiday" every month felt like a bonus at the time !

............. just checking the Austrian Law to see if I can find a loophole :)

[alley]

not an ops support but private biz jet operator... and thats the worrying thing!
Main reason he's doin this is casue of staff shortage so less leave means more staff avaliable! :(

[no sig]

Alley

You need to refer to your contract of employment, if you haven't already. If you're on a 4 on 4 off roster pattern weekends don't mean anything to you. Usually, shift workers have a number of annual leave days that refer to a 'day off shift'- so if you apply for leave for a 4 day period of work, you can enjoy the days off prior to and after the leave dates- if your roster sticks to the pattern. But I have also know this to be contested in airlines I have worked for in the past. It's the same for 9-5 workers- if they apply for a week holiday- i.e. 5 days off M-F the weekend days off prior to, and after, don't come into the leave equation- but they enjoy 9 days away from work- do they not? Try that as an argument to support your issue.

[call100]

It would be illegal in the UK....If it was not, all employers would be pulling that one. Some people just don't deserve to breath.....................Best advice is to find another employer, preferably one with a Union (or a heart!!)...:ugh:

[5552N0426W]

Same old story with HR and management who have no idea of what it's like to "work the desk" in this part of this industry.
If your roster pattern is fixed, then your time off is yours. Your leave days are just that and anything else is off duty time.

I agree with no sig and I have also know this to be contested in airlines I have worked for but no matter how you try to explain it to them, they can't understand even when you equate it to "day workers" M-F and Sa,Su off.

Keep trying and at least you've got a job.

[Servisairxc-inxchick]

we work the crapest at lpl. 4 on 2 off!
finishing ur last day in, at midnite, and starting ur first back in at 4am, technically not getting two full rest days!

[pacificwind]

Our shift pattern is based on a 4/4 rotation as well but it entails 2 - 12 hour morning shifts 0700 - 1900 and 2 - 12 hour evening shifts 1900-0700.
You could work 4 straight mornings and 4 straight evenings but we prefer having the break in between the last morning to the first evening shift although your last night shift cuts into your first day off.

[G-WHOT]

Mon – Tues – Weds – Thurs – Fri – Sat – Sun
R R R R D D D
N N R R R R D
D D N N R R R
C C C C C C C
R R D D N N N

D - 0630-1830
N - 1830-0630
C – 0900-1700 or cover any holidays

I liked this when working in cargo at LHR. The cover week you either took holiday or covered when others on holiday or maybe a few 8hour days as an extra!:)

[call100]

Thats just barbaric!!!!:eek:

[flightleader]

A question for those on 12hours shift:

What happen if the guy taking over your shift go sickie? Do you extend you shift,someone else to be call out of standby or other methods to cover for the shortage?

[abel_tasman]

For 6 years I have been working a 2 day 2 night 4 off shift pattern.
Generally it works pretty well with obvious pluses and minuses. Recently I have heard of a shift variation that follows the same pattern but starts with nights and ends with days. Socially I can see advantages to this as my days off are immediately preceded by a day working pattern. Usually my first day off after nights is spent in a zombie like state and only good for recovery. Also the last night off before starting early on my first day back at work is usually an inferior sleep and does not set me up well for the rest of the first day. Has anyone heard of this 2 night 2 day 4 off variation to the usual 4 on 4 off scenario?

[Buzzz]

2 nights 2 days cannot work as that would mean a 24 hour shift in the middle...

i am working a general 2 days 2 nights shift pattern with a few changes here and there, but never going over the 14/15/16 shifts a month...

For my personal preference the finishing at 0700 on my first day off is perfectly acceptable, its weighed off against the 24 hours between my day and night shift...

As for the annual leave allowance, my 18 days are plenty (plus BH lieu days if i choose to take), i'm currently a week into 3 weeks off, and i used 6 days AL for that...

so for me, 2days 2 nights 4off, best shift pattern there is! :)

cheers,

buzzz

[jcgooch]

Well we do a 4 on 4 off, the 4 on being 2 days then 2 nights, the shift being 12 hours 7 to 7 seems to work ok but as many others have said weekends and public hols tend to be pot luck !

[manbaghall]

at man with servisair we do 6 on 3 off crap like

[Bruce3948]

As a professional schedule designer, I felt compelled to respond to this discussion.

In our work with clients, we show the affected workers a variety of scheduling possibilities, e.g., 8-hour shift patterns, 12-hour shift patterns, and 8 and 12-hour combined shift patterns. Roughly 90% of the time, the top-rated schedule uses 12-hour shifts. But the preferred pattern varies.

The reason for no clear winner is that the employees at each facility we work with has a different set of demographics (gender, age, marital status, childcare responsibilities, second jobs, etc.). They also have different experience with shift schedules. As a result, it is inappropriate to think there is a single "best" shift pattern. It really depends on the group you ask.

If you want to choose the "best" schedule, you could either hire a consultant to facilitate the change process, or you could purchase a package of schedule examples and let the group decide which pattern they like best. So, instead of asking for all pilots' opinions, narrow it down to a smaller group and find out what their preferences are.

[merlinxx]

You all quote a shift pattern with N followed by an OFF. If you finish after 2359 i.e. 06 or 07 that's a bloody duty day, not am off day. WAKE UP :mad:

[doyley196]

Before our company screws the workforce into working a shift pattern the workforce don't want. Does anyone have any good shift patterns to cover seven days a week, 7am to 7pm for two teams.

[speedbird_481_papa]

Merlin, My company does not care at all about you finishing into your day off. They can not see any issues at all with it. I very often along with my colleagues finish at 0300 on my first rostered day off!

Our Shift pattern is 6 on, 3 off, consisting of usually 3 early shifts (0500-1330) and 3 late shifts, earliest start is 1200, latest start at 1830.

Merlin I agree with you it is immoral but it is perfectly fine. If you are in the UK, read the fine print of your contract. No doubt somewhere it will exempt you from the working regs hours :ok: