R44 Clipper II: Fixed or Pop-out Floats ?

[JayPanda]

Would appreciate advice regarding fixed-utility floats vs.
pop-out floats for a Robinson R44 Clipper II. For about 8 months of the year it'll fly over dry
land (and we'd like to remove the floats during these months, to get
most useful load/speed). The other 4 months of the year, it'll fly
on-and-off over water (and we'd like to have the floats on or
available for deployment as pop-out). Suggestions/comments ? Jay

[madman1145]

Pop-out for sure. Unless you are planning on purpose to land on water during those 4 months, get the pop-out. Less drag during flight, same floatation ability as fixed floats ..

- madman

[helicopter-redeye]

Pop outs are for emergency use, not for planned use.

It would be an expensive exercise constantly refilling the deployment bottle ....

[TiPwEiGhT]

The advantage of the utility floats is that for 6 months of the year you won't be carting around the bottle, piping and float packs giving you more useful load.

I have never flown a machine with the utility floats, not sure how much they weigh. Perhaps you should fire an email to Robinson and get the different empty weights and CofG charts.

TiP

[Unhinged]

Definitely get the pop-outs - Much less effect on the stability and speed of the helicopter than the fixed floats.

"Pop outs are for emergency use, not for planned use."

Which is the same as the fixed floats. From the fixed-floats section of the R44 POH: "Intentional landings for other than training purposes are not recommended."

"It would be an expensive exercise constantly refilling the deployment bottle ...."

You aren't "constantly refillling" the bottle. The pop-outs only get deployed if needed, not speculatively as you cross the coast !

[funfinn2000]

I have flown both types, The fixed floats is fun for about 20mins, There is night flight limitations unless you have your nav lights fitted up top, They don't fly very well in the wind, its like driving an old Cadilac down the interstate,and the floating r44 will take on water unlike the belly of the 22 will sit at least 1 foot out of water. The pop outs are the way to go faster, just recommend care where ya park it nd make sure no dogs chew on your float pack.

[JayPanda]

thanks for the replies. pretty much settles the argument in favour of the popouts. The additional weight differential is about 15 lbs (50 for the fixed vs 65 for the popouts). But the real revealation for me was that both are meant for emergencies only, and not planned water landings. any issues with removing the popouts and its accessories for 4 months of the year to get more useful load (I understand the skids are longer for the Clipper than the regular R44, and also that some kind of weight balancing needs to be done) ??

[TiPwEiGhT]

the pop-outs are not designed to be removed, each float pack is bolted on to the skid with about 10-20 bolts and getting them back on and lined up correctly is a nightmare.

TiP

[scooter boy]

Seems there is absolutely no reason to get the utility floats if they are also for emergency use only.

Having them would be a bit like flying around with Chris Moyles and his obese identical twin lashed to the skids (after a particularly heavy dinner).

I have pop-outs on my Clipper II - hope to never use them, but gives me a warm feeling inside when I cross the channel at the Western end (Plymouth-Guernsey-Jersey).

SB

[cleartorotate]

I think everyone is not reading JayPanda's original post he wants a float package that he can take off for the overland missions which is most of the year. Sure fixed floats are nice and sexy, but take them into the bush could damage them if your landing in rough areas, also with the added weight he can do without. Sure he can take the floats off but you still have the tank and all of its plumbing, this would be a pain in the ass to attach and remove so often.

Utility floats are not that bad, there nice and big so you can put advertising on the side and when you remove them your back to a normal R44. You can still buzz along at 100kts and attaching them only takes a hour or so, My opinion is for what you are doing Utility would be the go.

[Never in Balance]

Loading and unloading of passengers with utility floats is also a bit of a nightmare.

I would take Pop Outs and keep them on all year.

[cleartorotate]

My two cents...

Fixed are nice and streamline, but a bit heavier and a nightmare if you wanted to remove for 8 months of the year, Sure you can leave on but alot of bushwork may damage the floats.

Utility are easy to remove and attach and you can put advertising on them, go into the bush without the weight and possibility of damaging your floats with landings, dirt and rocks working there way in.

[JayPanda]

Hmm, i think the key issue is: how much of a hassle is it to remove (fixed) floats once a year and put them back on 8 months later ? This is critical, since if it's not that big a deal, we could really use the extra 50 lbs of useful load since we're in a VERY hot and humid climate.

[helicopter-redeye]

you still have the tank and all of its plumbing

You can take the bottle out with out discharging it.

You can take the floats off and fit std skids.

This would take the useful load up. Then reverse when you want the system back in.

[hallaheli]

I read that the Clipper II is certified for water landings is this incorrect? I am looking for a/c options using fixed floats for tourism. The ability to regularly take off from, and land in water would be necessary. Any advice?

[mickjoebill]

Any other light helicopters with fixed floats that are certified for water landings in day to day use?


Mickjoebill

[Nigel Osborn]

Bell 47, 206, etc

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Chuck and PT used floats often on the 47

Peter R-B
Vfr

[GoodGrief]

You do not take the floats off the skids.
You buy a second landing gear and swap when needed, takes 30 minutes max.

Advantages:
The less you tamper with those floats the greater the chance they will save your life.
You can quickly switch if needed for that ad hoc sortie.


Believe me, it is money well spent.

Edit:
I know, the following is a crappy picture but...don't have a better one and it might serve the point.

Take a look at the wall behind the BO105.
You see a 206 landing gear with pop outs stored vertically.

http://www.helionline.net/picture/9999/big.jpg

[VH-XXX]

You can't beat the pop-outs on a R44. You hardly know they are there.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400\floats.jpgou

[natoPilot]

I heard somewhere that you have to regularly test the pop-outs and that it is quite expensive each time. Does anyone know if this is true or have any details?

[Matari]

In a Part 135 operation, IIRC, pop-out floats need filling (with dry shop air) every 100 hours, and left for a period of time (follow the manual) to check for leaks.

Once a year the system needs to be deployed using the nitrogen bottle and firing the squib. Refills aren't cheap.

zqUGfBsfak4

[PENNINE BOY]

Pop out floats add about an extra £1000 a year to your maintainance bill in the UK