Chieftan endos - NSW Air

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Hi all,

Looking for constructive feedback on the $950 "competency based" PA31-350 endorsement being offered by NSW Air.

Has anyone been through the process for no more than $950 (call me cynical), was the training standard ok or rushed, how much flying did you do and what was your overall general impression.

Anyone else got any ideas on good S/E Oz locations for a similar endorsement and a ballpark no. of hours and cost? Would also like some ICUS to go with as a preference.

Thanks,

UTR

[karl8434]

Hi, I did mine at Brindabella Airlines at Canberra really good ground school with the owner of the airline Geoff taking the time out to go over everything you need to know when operating the aircraft in charter etc. I tried the Wollongong mob never got a reply and 950 sounds to cheap, you would normally pay 950 an hour for a pa31.

Good luck

[bizzybody]

Roger Wilco from this forum just did an endorsement with his own instructor and he did 3.8 but think it was over in about 3.

I have no idea what the instructor charged but for his services..
i think that 950 is just per hour not for the actual endorsement.

BB

[porch monkey]

At about that price per hour, I wouldn't be letting anyone who did it in an hour loose in any of our aircraft.

[glekichi]

Try Tasair for a practical combined rating and ICUS package. Possibly not the cheapest but you will get some great night IFR experience (especially at this time of year!).

[overhere]

Tasair quoted me $990 per hour (2 to 3 hrs required) and $120 per hour for ICUS a few months ago if that helps.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Thanks all,

The NSW Air thing does seem 'too good to be true' but if you read Aviation Trader, it looks exactly like it's $950 total but couched with 'competency based' - hence the question about has anyone actually done it. Their past history didn't fill me with confidence either.

Cheers,

UTR

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

People are losing sight of the fact that all training is competency based and like it or not you will probably need more than the minimum specified.

If you are taking one hour to do a 31 endo there is something wrong.
They are not an exceptionally hard aircraft to fly but they are a bit more complex than a baron and in relation to the number of them in the industry, they kill a lot more people when you get it wrong.

If you're not Chuck Yaeger level, spend the time and get it right first time.

Too many schools quote a course on the CASA minimum hours and then have niggly students who took 50 hours instead of 40 to get their PPL.

[Trojan1981]

Declaration of Interest
I have, and still occasionally do fly with NSW Air (and previous incarnations as WFTC/AAP).

The Ad states quite clearly $950 per hour, not total. The greasy greek down there as discribed by tripple captain does not do endos. He only holds a PPL to start with and has nothing to do with training and operations. He is also a good bloke, though a fast talker and very media savvy, that is after all his job.

The training is conducted by a well qualified and experienced pilot. In fact he is the former head of BAe Flight Training in Tamworth.

[splinter11]

I did my PA31 endo with Macquarie Air in Port Macquarie. Did it in 2.6 and paid $2500. This seemed pretty fair to me and i got the training i required without going beyond what i needed.

[Tinstaafl]

When I worked at the BAe/Ansett College I recall there was a brouhaha about the place being an Aerial Work AOC holder (as it must, being a flying school) and not having a CP appointed (as it must, being an AOC holder) until the oversight was discovered after a rather extensive period of operation (years, I think). A rumour, but I heard the CAA/CASA FOI who did the initial AOC subsequently became the Chief Instructor there. Wouldn't be the same bloke, would it? Warren something. Only remember the first name because of a sticker one of the Ansett cadet courses left plastered around the place after they finished. Still have one them! :p

[Triple Captain]

Post a pic of the stickers! I know the clown!

[Trojan1981]

Yes thats him, go on, post the sticker.

[Tinstaafl]

Don't have an image of it but it was the riddle:

"What do you call a man with a rabbit up his arse?" without an answer. The course name/number was there too.

I think I saw one of them on the underside of one of the aircraft.

[kabammmd]

really sad....i know the man too and it seem pretty fair to me.
if you have any issue just keep it for yourself or at least do not include any name please.

[Trojan1981]

He seems like a reasonable bloke to me.

[bizzybody]

CAR 210
A person must not give a public notice, by newspaper advertisement,
broadcast statement or any other means of public announcement, to the
effect that a person is willing to undertake by use of an Australian
aircraft any commercial operations if the last-mentioned person has not
obtained an Air Operator’s Certificate authorising the conduct of those
operations.

NSW Air Pty Ltd does not hold an AOC itself..

If it does and the CASA site is REALLY slow in updating it, how can WG be the chief pilot of both.

[bizzybody]

understand that but the air patrol are a seperate entity to NSW PTy Ltd

Would be interested to see a pax manifest, i bet that they would have NSW air on it not the air patrol.

These flights are also being advertised by NSW air not as a private operation

[kabammmd]

if you have an issue go there and tell him on his face instead of bitching on a web site.
it seems like there is something personal behind...
regarding being a shark...well mate, have a look around, in business they are all shark, it is the market law...nothing wrong with that

[bizzybody]

Nothing personal about it. Just dont like people advertising charters without the legitimate AOC to support it

[Triple Captain]

if you have an issue go there and tell him on his face instead of bitching on a web site.

It wouldn't been the first time this individual has been told

[Trojan1981]

Care to elaborate TC?

[Triple Captain]

Care to elaborate TC?

Put simply, for someone who is ex CASA he is a law unto himself. Having shut down a number of operators when he was with CASA i just wonder when does karma come 'round?

There is a list as long as your arm including blatant disregard to regulations.

Here are some ripper oldies!

advicefor-newbee-please.html (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/180763-advicefor-newbee-please.html)

The first line is gold!
maccas-aerial-patrol-rip.html (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/248189-maccas-aerial-patrol-rip.html)

[bizzybody]

Thats gold Triple C :ok:

[Trojan1981]

Ouch! Thanks for the info TC. I wasn't aware of the info in the first thread.

The info in the second thread is not strictly true. I left the organisation about ten years ago and joined the military, only recently leaving the military and getting back into civvy flying so I was somewhat out of the loop.

I must say I have found him reasonable so far, especially compared to other individuals in civil aviation, but then I am not employed there.