Microlight Aircraft - Advice Wanted

[ECAM_Actions]

Hi,

Reading a few other threads, one comment appears a few times: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it". Now I've got that out the way...

I'm currently looking at what I need to get a UK Microlight license. Due to medical reasons I can't ever fly commercially, otherwise I would have done the flying thing long ago. It however does not prevent me flying privately.

I've been looking at Microlights on and off (particularly the tri-axis - not very keen on the weight shifters), but now I'm starting to quite like the idea. If you can convince me the weight shifters can be as safe to fly as tri-axis, I'm listening.

I had considered getting a license and renting aircraft, but from what I've been hearing, this can be expensive, and the aircraft not always available when you want it.

I've been trying to find out what a Microlight would cost to own and maintain, and I'm currently waiting to hear from a manufacturer on this point out of interest.

Does anyone here own a tri-axis Microlight? May I ask its cost at new? What does it cost to maintain? Has it been expensive when something needed replacing? Any recommendations for a manufacturer/particular model (e.g. it is a particularly outstanding aircraft from that manufacturer), or manufacturers/models to AVOID?

What about engines? Reliability is top of my list. It seems there are two major engine manufacturers in this range of aircraft - Rotax and Jabiru? I'm unfamilar with the Jabiru. Anyone any experience with those?

I've got a seperate question on operation. I'll ask in another thread here.

If there is anything else that is critical or good to know, let me know.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,
ECAM Actions.

[rans6andrew]

aircraft running costs are very dependant upon the number of hours you fly each year and where you live.

The biggest single cost, for most folk I would guess, is hangarage.

For my 3 axis microlight (Rans S6 with Rotax 503 engine) the annual costs, in reverse order of magnitude, are Hangarage (about £1000), insurance (3rd party/passenger only £200), permit renewal (£180), club membership (£100), LAA membership (£50). I did upgrade the aircraft and replace all of the skins a couple of years ago, cost about £3000, so it will be good for another 10 years.

These costs, with the possible exception of engine servicing, are going to need paying whether you fly one hour each year or hundreds.

Add to the fixed costs engine servicing (£40 every 60 or 70 flying hours) and 10 to 15 litres an hour of finest unleaded petrol (go to ASDA with the Jerry cans!) each hour and about a couple of pounds worth of oil if you run a 2 stroke.

I do my own servicing.

People will often suggest that 2 stroke engines are bad news. My experience is that if you are meticulous with your fuel and oil, de-coke at sensible intervals and keep an eye on the crankshaft bearings then you don't make unscheduled visits to agricultural locations. Every time we fly to France we meet British micro-lighters flying with 2 stroke engines yet we don't hear of them going in the drink...... You pay your money and make your choice.

Many 3 axis microlights and all flexwings can be folded for hangaring and thus may pay less. I have a trailer which houses my aircraft but I still have to pay the equivalent cost of an outdoor tie down to keep it on an airfield.

The closer you are to London, generally, the more hangarage and airfield costs are likely to be. 3 axis microlights cost from about £3000 second hand up to about £60,000.

You might buy into a syndicate to reduce the fixed costs, I would not want to give up the 100% availability I get as sole owner.

Where in the country are you? Also, you might want to look at the BMAA website/bulletin board for more relevant stuff.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Firstly, I'm not the first or last to say this, but if it's your first time - buy into a syndicate. It's cheaper, availability will almost always be excellent, and you'll learn loads from the other syndicate members.


Money wise:

Purchase: Anything between £4k and £60k; buy something with a current permit (or a share in same). There are subtle differences between LAA and BMAA permits, but too subtle to worry about and it's worth joining both organisations anyway. On the other hand, BMAA has the bigger fleet, many more types, and is the more specialist microlight organisation so by default I'd go with them if all else is equal.

Hangerage: Most (although not all) microlights can be derigged and kept at home in a trailer, although how hard work this is will vary a lot. Most can be kept on a tie-down under covers, most would rather be hangared. Depending upon where you are, and whether it's hangared, tied-down, rigged or de-rigged anything from £25-£140/month for tie-down / hangerage. Ask at your local airfields / microlight clubs.

Annual running costs: About £300pa for 3rd party & passenger insurance + about 8% of hull value for hull insurance. The former is mandatory, latter isn't. Maybe £150pa for 3rd party only on a simple single seater such as an MW5. Maintenance can be very variable, but if you budget £500pa you're unlikely to average more than that on most aircraft over their life. Annual permit renewal is probably going to be around £300 by the time you've added up inspector and association fees.

Variable running costs: Most likely to be running on MOGAS at about 15 litres/hr (obviously varies between aircraft - most frugal would be an old small 4-stroke like a 508 at perhaps 8 l/hr, thirstiest would be higher powered a 532 at around 20 l/hr). For 2-stroke engines add perhaps £2-3/hr for some decent quality oil such as Silkolene or Shell Advance VSX. Landing fees probably average about half what you're used to paying in group A, so perhaps £5/landing at most airfields.


A few other thoughts:

- Just to re-iterate, start in a syndicate; most microlight clubs have them running, either as part of the club structure or informally. All of the advice that you'll find around the bazaars about joining syndicates applies equally to group A or microlight syndicates. Work out what flying will cost you as above, and you'll realise how much of the cost is fixed/annual, so sharing that with half a dozen others (I personally reckon that the optimal syndicate is about 8, just from personal experience) brings your personal bills down a lot.

- Renting microlights is possible, but opportunities are rare.

- There are no "widow-makers" in the microlight fleet, thanks to an incredibly rigorous airworthiness system that has been in place since the mid 1980s. So, pick what you like flying and can afford, don't worry about safety - the pilot is the major safety component.

- If you like touring, it might be worth steering clear of the slower (sub-50knot) 1980s aeroplanes. On the other hand, if you really just enjoy local flying, they are often the most fun.

- Before buying, know what you and your wife weigh, and check the individual aeroplane's empty weight and MTOW. Some (although by no means all) microlights can be very restrictive.

- There are a variety of engines on the market, but personally I'd go for Rotax first, Jabiru second, then everything else third. This is partly down to the quality of engines, but mostly down to the quality of available product support in the UK.

- Don't be afraid of 2-strokes, they need a bit more maintenance than 4-strokes and are a bit thirstier, but realistically offer no real disadvantages for the private flying in most cases. That said, I'd personally avoid the 582/B-box combination; nothing unsafe about it, just it's about the noisiest and thirsties engine/gearbox combination ever invented (but cheap, hence you'll find a lot of them about.)

[batninth]

If you can convince me the weight shifters can be as safe to fly as tri-axis, I'm listening

My stock answer to this is - they're as safe as the people flying them.

One thing that may be worth considering is that weight shift are more susceptible to the weather. I started learning on 3-axis as the same time as a guy started on weigth-shift. After a year I had over twice as much time in my log book as he did even though he was retired and was at the airfield during the week when I was at work. He ended up switching to 3-axis to get the flying time

I too have a share in a RANS 6 Coyotoe, in my case there are two of us owning a Rotax 582 2-stroke machine (with B gearbox but I don't notice it as being thirsty). We keep it on a farm strip here oop t'North and the hangerage is quite cheap compared to other places locally, but then you have to put up with farm strip flying. Our insurance is ~£600 per year, and the annual & servicing costs are coming out around ~£500 on average pa. If you get a group of you togther, as Genghis suggests, then you can keep the costs relatively low

As Ghangis says, if you want to tour then you are looking at the more expensive machines, but if all you want to do is cruise then there are some good cheap offerings around.

[ECAM_Actions]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback so far!

My stock answer to this is - they're as safe as the people flying them.
Duely noted.

As Ghangis says, if you want to tour then you are looking at the more expensive machines, but if all you want to do is cruise then there are some good cheap offerings around.
What's the difference?

Best regards,
ECAM Actions.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback so far!


Duely noted.


What's the difference?

Best regards,
ECAM Actions.

Speed, power, number of gadgets.



Just looking at AFORS (my favourite window-shopping website) for a bit of variety:

Cyclone AX2000, on sale at about £8k, will cruise around 50 knots, excellent payload, can be tied down under covers.

Shadow DD, on sale at about £7k will cruise about 65 knots, poorer payload, needs hangaring.

Sky Ranger Jabiru, on sale at £26k, will cruise about 75 knots, good payload, superb range, much more comfortable than either of the above, can be tied down under covers.

Thruster TST, on sale at £2,600, will cruise about 45 knots, good payload, very limited range, very drafty and a taildragger, great fun, can be tied down under covers.

Thruster T600N, on sale at about £6k, will cruise about 60 knots, reasonable payload, reasonable range, can be tied down under covers.

Flightdesign CT, £50k, will cruise about 120 knots, limited payload, superb range, needs hangaring.


Personally, I'd be quite happy owning any of these (or actually just about any other microlight currently for sale on AFORS, for example there are lots of assorted X'Airs for sale at the moment, which I have particularly friendly feelings for, especially with a Jabiru engine) - the costs vary enormously, as do the cruise speeds. Pick one you like and can afford.


Better still, get a microlight PPL, and keep looking whilst you're learning, then buy once you know enough to pick the right aeroplane for you.

G


N.B. Yes, I agree, flexwings are as much fun, as safe, just different. I've roughly equal hours in each of 3-axis microlights, flexwing microlights and group A and would hate to give up any of these things! But, if 3-axis is what appeals to you, go and fly them without doubt or regret.

[ECAM_Actions]

Is buying second hand as "safe" as buying a new one? I'd be most concerned with engine maintenance, how it has been treated, and whether the airframe has been overstressed.

Are there any tell-tale signs of an abused ship that I should look out for?

Many thanks for all the feedback so far - very helpful.

Best regards,
ECAM Actions.

[batninth]

Is buying second hand as "safe" as buying a new one? I'd be most concerned with engine maintenance, how it has been treated, and whether the airframe has been overstressed.

Are there any tell-tale signs of an abused ship that I should look out for?

The thing with the microlight community is that everyone seems to either know someone, or know somebody who in turn knows that someone. If you get to learn at a good club then through the other members you'll get to know who is flying what, what condition it is in, and when it's coming up for sale. When the Coyote we bought came up for sale, several of the club members knew what is was like and we were gently steered towards it.

Ok, it's not quite the case for coverage over the whole of the UK, but generally you'll know what is going on around your area, and if you do tend to look to buy further afield then there will be experts locally who'll be able to help.

Microlights tend to be difficult to abuse other than poor maintenance, and at worst the permit system means you can talk to the inspector who keeps an eye on machines so you'll get to know if one hasn't been well looked after.

Genghis is right, I'd echo his comments about watching AFORS to get a view of the sort of machines coming on the market, and window shopping is fun.

[RAYMAC]

Can anybody help me???
I am a volunteer at The Yorkshire Air Museum and at this time I am building a Full Size Model/Re-creation of a 1917 lightweight Naval Biplane Fighter designed to fly off wooden decks of large Warships to shoot down Zeppelins,
The work is progressing well, most of the framework is in place, we have obtained a Citroen 2CV engine with the intent of running it on special days, this aircraft will be our 8th "live" aircraft when finished, "apart from money", we now need a time expired Microlight Propellor aprox 54" Dia, that can still be used for this purpose, the engine will be limited to 500 rpm or less and will not be taxiable or flyable in any way.
If you can help us with this we will be very grateful, please contact Mac at the Museum or on [email protected]

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Where do you fly from, magpienja? You seem to be not too far from me and I'd like to look at microlights after over 30 years of GA.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Ta m. I'm near Wilmslow / Alderley, East Cheshire, so Arclid prob closer for me. But I hear they are a friendly bunch at Ince.

[BackPacker]

Raymac, you might get a better response if you start a new thread on this, instead of resurrecting one that's 3.5 years old.

If you're looking specifically for a Microlight propellor, contact the BMAA.