Is the apprenticeship route still viable in todays economic climate?

[Afraz]

A lot of pilots who I have met recently have said that the apprenticeship route to the airlines is sadly no longer viable as there are not many turboprop, night freight, air taxi postions left on which wannabe airline pilots can gain that all important experience on.

I'm a daft wannabe so I want to know from more exprienced and knowledgable members here on PPRUNE on what they think:

Is the apprenticeship route to the airlines still viable?

It would be a great shame if the apprenticeship route is sadly no longer viable. There is no subsitute for experience in my book.

Best Regards,
Afraz

[Lew747]

Guess who's back, back again, Afraz is back, tell a friend. Missed ya buddy :ok::}

[Aerouk]

Do you mean apprenticeship engineers? Ryanair were doing one last year.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

To be fair, that's a very good question from Afraz.

"Traditionally" these routes you mention (night freight, air taxi etc) were considered something of an apprenticeship, where alot of us cut our teeth and gained fantastic experience, often in non-computerised, hell even non-heated (well it felt like it anyway) aeroplanes in some pretty poor conditions.

I think these routes are now considerably fewer (even taking into account the exceptional economic situation we now face) than even a few years ago. The way the industry seems to be heading is for wannabees to either target or be targetted by the bigger airlines to work for reduced wages, having paid for the TR themselves. This on top of the cost of training amazes me how people can actually afford it these days however that's another topic.

There are still operators suitable for 200 hr guys, flying TP's, however they do seem fewer on the face of it than say in 2000 or so. Obviously the economics are playing their part, and they can obviously afford to raise the bar, but yes, it does appear that way to me too Afraz, which is only a bad thing for wannabees I'm afraid.

[AlphaMale]

For as long as there are enough people willing to pay the £45k bill (modular route) to work for a small TP operator like myself, then I guess the companies you mention above will see very little point in offering apprenticeship/sponsorships.

Unless they (Operator) were looking for a long term bond from the pilot?

I think a TP operator would bond you for 3 years for a TR, but for a full 0-fATPL & TR they could bond you for 5 years or more? A big advantage for them as it'll give them a bit of stability - I believe Highland use to do this.

[shaun ryder]

Yes it is. People are still doing it today. Work out a plan, don't expect to find work in airline straight away. Consider all the other options out there and pick one. Possibly instructing with a view to flying air taxi as the next step. What harm will it do? It will set you apart from the majority of wannabees who set there sights way too high. I am not saying it is easy, but its not impossible either. You will be proactive, a more confident pilot and more experienced than the next guy straight out of flight academy.

[mad_jock]

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick with the post Alpha.

The apprenticeship was the old self improver route where you got a BCPL and then built hours up to 750 by Meat bombing, glider towing, instructing etc. Then after you got your CPL you got a twin job air taxi work, surveying etc. Then had a look at a turbo prop job or night freight. Then maybe LHS on a TP or off to fly jets.

In the advent of JAR it wasn't required because you get CPL/IR exactly the same as if you payed twice as much for the integrated course which used to be the only way you could go straight into the RHS of a multi crew airliner.

Yes it's still alive and kicking although the numbers getting there first break are a fraction of what it was 3 years ago. These are the guys that are getting the unadvertised word of mouth jobs and not paying for type ratings. You won't see or hear about these jobs unless your mucking about airfields and your face is known. Some company's swear by it and thats what they like, others reckon you come with to many bad habits and single crew time. Which ever method you decide to go for you are cutting yourself off from some jobs. Although being an exFI I have never heard anything but positive things said about it.

To be honest I don't think there are any routes open for the masses. Its going to be trickle recruitment for the next 3 years with quite a few wondering how the hell did that person get a job and I have had 2000 PFO letters.

Afraz your 18 mate go and get a job for the next 3 years and earn some cash, go and fly gliders and see what happens in the future.

[AlphaMale]

Wrong end of the stick :eek: ... Sorry about that. When I read apprenticeship I automatically thought of a wannabe pilot joining an airline where most of their training is done on the job while working for an employer (Ops etc) who helps the apprentices learn their trade, in exchange for their continuing labour for an agreed period after they become a qualified pilot a.k.a. Sponsorship.

As for what was descried above MJ, that is what I am looking to do. I don't expect an airline to take me on with just 250hrs under my belt (I know they do and I caused a stir by mentioning this before in another thread). but I'd like to enjoy my journey to the LHS of a jet.

I'd love to be part of a team as a glider tug pilot after I get 100hrs TT under my belt and a tail dragger rating, then when I have the shiney CPL & MEIR maybe take a trip to Maun for 2 years or more.

I should imagine with close to or over 1,000hrs TT I'd have a good shot at the TP operators, BizJets or maybe Jets (Airline or Fright) when I get back? I'd like to enjoy my comerial flying in Africa before getting bonded to an airline. But who knows what the future holds in 2 / 3 / 4 years time?