All BA Staff to take 2 weeks unpaid leave

[sirwa69]

Just been announced that ALL BA staff are to take 2 weeks unpaid leave.
That's basically losing 1/2 a months salary, thats a bit of a blow for many people who struggle from month to month paying the mortgage.
Is that even legal :mad:

[Dutchjock]

Just been announced where?

[HotDog]

DTG, doesn't your company give you ID90 staff travel? That's tough, isn't it:confused:

[Sonic Bam]

Sorry, I don't believe a word of this. Is it April 1st?

Whoever announced what can announce away. I am not aware of any way BA could impose or enforce such as scheme. Can be done voluntarily as was done in the past with BRS but imposed, I don't think so. Also, if WW did try to impose such a scheme, it doesn't quite sit with "employee engagement".

[max_cont]

sirwa69 that is news to BA staff. WW is not taking a months salary. (Easy for him considering his take home pay)

Where did you get the info? Put up or shut up.

[Local Variation]

Unpaid leave can not be forced in the UK as it is against European employment law.

If they want to go this way, they will need to ask for volunteers. The process of volunteering will almost certainly conclude in a revised flexible approach based on the number of days, eg 5 or 10.

It is of course different in the States.

Many major worldwide businesses are currently adopting this path and the savings are astronmical in going along way to preventing redundancy.

[747-436]

I think it is more the case of BA wanting staff to take some form of unpaid leave but I don't think it is mandatory. I am sure there are lots of people who are in a position to take advantage of this though.

[Swedish Steve]

Can't imagine it.
When I go on leave, someone has to come over from LHR to do my job. Getting this guy takes a lot of organisation and give and take. We rarely take all our paid leave nowadays because of the hassle and fwd planning involved. Place will grind to a halt.

[jerboy]

My heart bleeds for you, really.. (NOT!)

Do us all a favour and grow up.

Either way, its pretty unusual that this would be announced on a Sunday. And I doubt it'd be legal. If it were true the unions would be crying murder...

[Charlie Roy]

Unpaid leave can not be forced in the UK as it is against European employment law.

Short time is legal, and a significant number of companies have resorted to it in recent times.
It can be forced as long as it applies to everyone.
Indeed, it'd probably be more effective for BA to ask for volunteers for such unpaid leave and even let the volunteer decide if they want 2, 3, 10 weeks.

What a desperate shame that this thread has started without any source being cited. It might be one big untrue rumour :suspect:

short time - Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/short_time)

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I think someone has read/heard half a soundbite and then tried to make a scoop out of it.

The only thing I can find reporting anything similarly close is a piece by Robert Peston from Friday, in which he states:

Also it is cutting costs: staff are being offered the option of temporary or permanent part-time working and unpaid leave;

BBC - Peston's Picks: BA: Loaded down (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/05/ba_loaded_down.html)

[sirwa69]

Here's the email

Dear All,

In our year end results released today (May 22, 2009) - we have announced a full year operating loss of £220 million and pre-tax loss of £401 million, amid the harshest trading environment in the airline's history.

Over the next week, there will be the opportunity to discuss the impact of these results through local and corporate briefings. Your line managers will let you know when and where these are taking place.

We are heading for a second, consecutive year of losses; this is unprecedented in our history. We are now fighting for our business survival. This survival depends on our ability to permanently removing cost from every part of the business, and doing it quickly.

In order to make some immediate savings, we need everyone to take a minimum of two weeks unpaid leave or the equivalent in temporary or permanent part-time working. Kate Ling, Head of HR Europe, Asia & Pacific and Africa, will be sending a communication to you with the details around these options and the process to follow in submitting requests. .

Unfortunately, there is no recovery in sight for the global economy. We need to do all we can now in order to ensure the long term survival of British Airways.

[Sonic Bam]

"we need everyone to take a minimum of two weeks unpaid leave or the equivalent in temporary or permanent part-time working"

"we need" is not the same as "you will", this is voluntary.

[mr ripley]

I dont care what you quote its still bollox.

All means ALL and since I haven't got an email and don't work for this person quoted then you are talking rubbish!

[Dysag]

If you have the e-mail, why not copy/paste it rather than re-typing it with grammatical errors? Fishy.

[411A]

If BA is overstaffed (quite likely) then the obvious answer is...last in first out.
Lay folks off on a temporary basis until business improves.
It ain't rocket science, now is it...?:ugh:

[FlapsFive]

From what I've heard from people at BA, they are trying to keep as many people as possible (i.e. all flight/cabin crew at the very least) so that when the upturn does happen, they can accelerate out of it before their rivals.

This is only a rumour and this is potentially only one point of view, might I add.

FF

[wilyflier]

l
Last in , first out......Whats fair about that?...Thats how the fat Seniors stay safe and the struggling newbies get dumped on the "Bottom of the list merry go round".Thank you Balpa for my interesting life

[keel beam]

There are a number of acerbic comments there.:=

Whilst the company may not be able to enforce compulsory unpaid leave in Europe, they are more cavalier in places like Africa, Middle East and Far East.

I have also heard about the 2 weeks unpaid leave for customer service staff in the Middle East. (You'll note where sirwa69 lives).

But as mentioned by Sonic Bam, the email states "need" as opposed to must or shall.

So, with all the UK government problems dominating the press this could be "a good time to release bad news" :eek:

[spannersatcx]

Last in , first out......Whats fair about that?...
That's why in the UK it can be deemed as discriminatory and therefore illegal.

CX has just offered voluntary unpaid leave from 1 week to 4 depending on your grade within the company, the more you earn the more you give back.

[al446]

Last in, first out is illegal under European Law. Please check facts before shouting from the hip.

[racedo]

Will this receive as many postings as the Ryanair thread when they did the same and everybody condeming them......probably not.

[Litebulbs]

"The most striking number in British Airways results for the past year was the £3bn it spent on fuel, which was 44.5% higher than in the previous year.

So for all the talk from Willie Walsh, BA's chief executive, that "the global downturn makes this the harshest trading environment we have ever faced", without the £900m jump in fuel costs the airline would have been very comfortably in profit: operating profits would have been around £700m."

[hautemude]

Check facts b4 shooting from yr foot. On May 14th, the Times law reports section reported that the Court of Appeal had decided that employers could take into account length of service when deciding redundancy order.
I'm not sure I know how to send web links, but I shall try.

Longer-serving workers allowed protection from redundancy - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article6289135.ece)

[Litebulbs]

In fact the evidence of BA's revenues is not of a cataclysmic global recession. Passenger revenues rose 3.1% to £7.8bn and cargo revenues were 9.4% higher at £673m. Which is not boom boom, but nor is it financial disaster at 30,000 feet.

What actually caused BA's worst ever loss of £401m before tax and the suspension of the dividend was a lamentable rise in costs: engineering and "other" aircraft costs increased by £59m or 13.1%; landing fees were 14.2% or £75m higher. Even staff costs rose a bit.

So it's difficult to avoid the impression that at least part of BA's agony, its descent in just 12 months from record profits to record losses, was of its own making - though plainly there's a limit to what it can do to hedge itself against the near-collapse in the value of sterling (which pushes up the cost of fuel) and against the volatility in the dollar oil price.

The better news is that BA expects to pay rather less for fuel this year.

[exeng]

Might be legal in Arizona perhaps, but it sure isn't legal in the UK as the ONLY means of making employees compulsorily redundant.

Employment law in the UK - not rocket science perhaps - but a minefield nevertheless.


Regards
Exeng

[yotty]

"Today, a number of further actions were announced, including:
Cutting winter 09 capacity by four per cent
Grounding up to 16 aircraft
Offering unpaid leave and part-time working to staff — more details will be released on this next week
Setting a deadline of June 30 for ongoing pay and productivity negotiations"
Verbatim from BA staff website! :ok:

[wobble2plank]

Sirwa69,

I can only assume you have acquired an E-Mail to a BA outstation or somewhere similar where this sort of thing can happen.

I have not heard, seen, read, found anything along the line of what you claim. Unpaid leave has been banded about for the last 12 months on a purely voluntary basis. With Voluntary redundancy in the offing I would be very surprised if BA wanted to have half its pilot workforce off over the summer whilst they try and rebuild the financial wreckage.

As to the numbers, LH posted a large loss which runs calendar year thus doesn't include the three months Jan-Mar. Likewise AF/KLM, Singapore etc. BMI is in a terminal state grasping hold of the LH takeover lifeline. Virgin has implemented CC and FC redundancies and, being a private company, doesn't have to release figures but the action speak louder than numbers.

It will be an interesting summer, and a far more interesting winter but this situation is affecting ALL European carriers. It's just a shame that the good 'ol American anti competition laws don't include permanently bankrupt American carriers flying the Atlantic routes for the past 8 years. Level playing field? More like a cliff.

[Channex101]

BA had offered 1 months unpaid leave to CSDs and Main crew.
Those who had signed up for 75% or 50% working hours were emailed last week asking if you were offered it in the next 12 months how likely would you be to take it.
I think someone from outside of BA has caught wind of those, then added 2 and 2 and come out with 5.
We havnt been forced to take 2 weeks unpaid leave, personally id do it anyway.... if it stopped willie getting his singlefleet idea and shafting us like he did to our colleagues over in LGW! Those guys work bloody hard and for not a lot of money, I dont want to see tha brought in to LHR

[PPRuNe Pop]

al446,

Actually, first in last out is NOT illegal. However, the employer using this principal for the purposes of redundancy may NOT mix and match any other arrangements - in other words the system of first in last out MUST be applied accross the board.

It is also worth noting that no employer may fill a position vacated by redundancy for a period 6 months. If there is a need to fill such a position it must first be offered to the person who vacated it.

[spannersatcx]

If there is a need to fill such a position it must first be offered to the person who vacated it. Not true, as we went through a redundancy process and this is one of the questions I asked, it is because the redundant position is made as the business stands on that day. If things change and you need to employ again, the previous encumbant of the redundant position does not have any rights to that position, although you would like to think it would be offered.

Anyway it detracts from the original post.

We were asked, at CX, to take voluntary unpaid leave, and were told that it could be made compulsory, but as it can not in other places around the world it would be kept at voluntary. If more was needed later it may well become compulsory. I'd rather have a little unpaid leave than people loose their jobs.

[PPRuNe Pop]

We are also talking about EU law here - which complicate matters.

The criteria used to select employees for redundacy should be as objective as possible. Consider last in first out (“LIFO”), skills and performance, attendance and disciplinary record, experience and aptitude

The above is quoted in employment law, as it has been for many years.

But, employment laws are diverse and open to 'cheating' by employers who do not apply them fairly and often 'adjust' them to see if they can get an advantage. These circumstances make it advisable for individuals to take advice about their own offers.