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nigegilb
24th May 2009, 10:11
Not sure of the source of the info here, but according to this article in today's Indie the MoD appears doomed to lose forthcoming legal battle. Fitness for purpose, or rather lack of, was the most important aspect of the Inquest. Nobody took responsibility for sending an aircraft and crew to war in an unsafe aircraft, questions remain over ability of the MoD to take care of operational airworthiness.

MoD admits Hercules in fatal crash was unsafe
Court document reveals C-130 in which 10 servicemen died had a catalogue of faults, including wings in danger of metal fatigue

By Jonathan Owen
Sunday, 24 May 2009

An RAF Hercules aircraft that crashed in Iraq killing 10 servicemen was "unfit" for its role and should not have been flying, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has admitted. The plane was flying with unsafe wings, had faulty anti-missile defences and was flying without suppressant foam to protect its vulnerable fuel tanks from exploding.

The catalogue of faults is admitted in documents revealed in a legal battle between families of four of the crew members who were killed in the 2005 crash shortly after the aircraft left Baghdad airport.

An inquest last year heard the likeliest cause of the crash was the plane being hit by ground fire which caused the fuel tanks to explode. It ruled the men were unlawfully killed and criticised the MoD's decision not to fit the fuel tank foam despite years of repeated warnings. After the inquest the MoD apologised to the servicemen's families and promised they had enhanced the protection of the aircraft.

However, documents seen by The Independent on Sunday reveal the plane was suffering from more extensive faults than previously disclosed. Bernard Colleary, lawyer for some of the families, said: "This really is a case of a cascade of errors, at every level."

According to legal documents on the case, the plane was "not fit for purpose" when it deployed for flight operations in Iraq because its outer wings had exceeded their safe life and were "more vulnerable to structural failure". The documents reveal the plane's anti-missile defences had failed five times in three months before the crash. The MoD admits this failure may have led to the crew taking the risk of flying at low altitude in an attempt to evade missiles but making themselves a target for small-arms fire. The MoD has also admitted there was a breakdown in intelligence, which meant the crew had no idea it was flying over an area where it was liable to be shot at.

Ten days ago, lawyers acting for the MoD admitted negligence for the deaths. Millions of pounds of compensation could be paid out to the families of the dead.

Kellie Merritt, the widow of Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel, the navigator, said yesterday: "It was a plane that was past its sell-by date. It doesn't make sense to place your best crew in a plane like that. Nobody should have flown in [it]. My children said it was like doing a cross-country run at school and having your teacher telling you to run across the edge of a cliff."

Flt Lt Pardoel, 35, was on his final deployment before returning to his native Australia with his wife and their three children. His wife said she was worried about crews still flying the Hercules planes. "People should understand that the coroner's inquest did not look into the airworthiness of these planes. Someone needs to look into it," she said. "I want to know that the crews still serving in them are safe, particularly in special operations. I was part of a Special Forces family and I worry about those that are left."

The Hercules C-130K planes are more than 40 years old and 14 are still in service, despite the MoD wanting to have them all initially retired last year. Only six Hercules C-130Ks are "fit for purpose" and a combination of budget pressures and delays over the replacement Airbus A400M mean that defence officials are desperately trying to find ways of keeping the wings up to standard to enable them to use the planes until 2014.

Despite this, only five of the existing Hercules are having replacement wings. The MoD has defended its decision not to replace wings on all the planes. "The out-of-service date for the C130K remains at 2012 and to replace the wings would not provide value for money," said a spokesperson. "We constantly review all of our aircraft programmes."

But Tim Ripley from Jane's Defence Weekly said: "The issue is that these planes have a finite life, and they either have to buy new airplanes, fit new wings or just ground them."

The shadow Defence minister Dr Liam Fox said: "There is no more serious charge against any government than sending our troops into battle without proper protection. Men were deployed in a plane that was unfit for purpose, which became a death trap."

Chugalug2
24th May 2009, 11:12
Nige, if this story is confirmed then the K joins the Nimrod in being the subject of an MOD "Mea Culpa" admission of failure. That would leave only the Chinook Mk2 for them to bite the bullet on of the three parallel threads that have dominated this Forum for years. The Mull thread still awaits that "Right be Done" and the reinstatement of the reputations of two deceased pilots. The common factors are of course Military Airworthiness and Fitness for Purpose. The MOD has been shown to have wilfully reneged on its legal responsibilities as UK Military Airworthiness Authority, not only on those fleets but on most, if not all, others. It must be divested of such responsibilities ASAP in order to avoid future avoidable accidents. An MAA must be established to ensure that.

nigegilb
24th May 2009, 11:20
Don't want to count any chickens, but the Nimrod and Hercules cases now appear watertight. It was frustrating at the Inquest, one of my evidence inputs attempted to link the Hercules together with the Nimrod in terms of airworthiness failures and lack of "fitness for purpose". The Coroner simply referred to systemic failures, which didn't, in my view, spell out the problem clearly enough. I am relieved that XV179 is now being seen in the same light as the Nimrod tragedy, at least in terms of the legal case and that the true scale of the airworthiness failure will be examined in court.

If MoD loses both cases, pressure must be increased to assess the Mull crash in the same light. Fortunately, among those who care, is a man with the knowledge and understanding to help the Mull group do just that!

nigegilb
24th May 2009, 14:56
It seems I misunderstood the significance of the content of this article.

If I now understand it correctly, MoD have admitted NEGLIGENCE WRT all claims of airworthiness failings on XV179.

There is NO NEED to go to Court.

MoD have accepted liability in toto.

Wow, this could mean it is all over. Obviously not for the families, but in terms of liability, accountability, apology, compensation, retro-fitting of the Herc Fleet with foam. The whole thing, admitted to/accepted by the MoD.

Please, someone correct me if I am wrong........

Edited to add, the question of HRA Right to Life applying, appears to remain unresolved and subject to possible court action. This might still go to Court, but everything we have argued for and claimed has been proven and accepted uncontested by MoD Lawyers.

HRA Right to Life for soldiers at war, will break new legal ground if accepted and was outside of the scope/intention when the original thread started. The failure to provide an airworthy aircraft and one fit for purpose, has I believe, been accepted.

Hope this helps RE Nimrod and TD et al.

The very best wishes to those involved in the Nimrod action, (slam dunk?)

flipster
24th May 2009, 17:24
I am so pleased that at last the MoD has had the courage to face up to its responsibility for ensuring aircraft airworthiness - at least in the case of the Herc and the Nimrod. Also, I am hopeful that the MoD, now that they made the first few tentative steps towards rehabilitation, fully accept they owe many, many deceased crews and their families a full re-assessment of the last two-decades of systemic blindness in airworthiness maintainence in our older ac.

The only reason I say that is because, if the lack of airworthiness of the Nimrod and Hercules is now accepted, then what about our other legacy aircraft - Sea King, Chinook, Tornado, Puma, VC10, Tristar etc etc? What other holes in the layers of cheese are lurking out there? Now is is the time for a full review of all military accidents and incidents in the past 20 years and keep digging until we find the deeply hidden latent airworthiness failures that could bite us on the backside!

Furthermore, it is now time to take military airworthiness regulation out of the juristiction of the military - it is obvious they cannot afford to do it properly.

Oh, and re-instate something that resembles the 'good old' IFS - something with teeth, as DASC/DARS is nothing like the IFS as was.

flipster

nigegilb
24th May 2009, 21:39
Flip, I wouldn't give the MoD too much credit just yet. Going back to the Sgt Roberts case, the MoD did everything in their power to avoid going to Court and thereby setting legal precedent. Sgt Roberts's wife received additional compensation and none of her existing benefits/compensation were reduced after SofS waived the clawback clause. In return she had to sign a gagging order.

To Chappie and the other families involved. I hope you are not going to be asked to sign a gagging order. Please contact me through the normal channels, if you would like contact with a family member who knows full well how MoD can do business. This might be an attempt to avoid Court, legal precedent and publicity, it is too early to say.

I have my own experiences concerning MoD, I am NOT calling a conclusion to the campaign just yet. Many people here doubted the wisdom of taking the MoD Court. In my opinion it is the only way to do business with the MoD. The only way to achieve, accountability, action and permanent change. Having been presented with the legal writ, MoD have rolled over in a matter of weeks after an Inquest process that lasted years. I hope the Mull Group get their day in Court. Still not counting chickens but a public thank you for the kind words sent in private.

flipster
25th May 2009, 11:05
Perhaps it is time to hold the sword of damocles over the MoD -

"Dear MoD

Sort out the airworthiness and BOI system - now, or court will follow."

or something along those lines?

BTW - gagging orders? Where has that one come from?

nigegilb
25th May 2009, 11:24
Flip, we all know about the extremely long delays to get the Inquests concluded. In the case of XV179 well over 3 years. There is a finite time limit for legal action. Again in the case of XV179 and Nimrod the families were granted an extension by the MoD because of delays building in the system. I now understand that these extensions may not stand up in Court and that the MoD might well argue that the families are out of time if they want to argue the applicability of the Human Rights Act to servicemen in theatres of war.

These are just the sort of dirty tricks that I am becoming aware of. Remember the delays were caused because of the high workload on the coronial system which had limited resources and also because of the redacting process that went on for months.


I am stunned that MoD are trying to argue the out of time clause. I hope the judge throws out this argument.

Regarding gagging clauses. I have no doubt that they will try, but the MoD are up against formidable opposition this time round. Just let them try.

Vox Populi
25th May 2009, 11:42
Nigel,

The MOD is a large department, filled with many honest and decent people who work hard on behalf of those in their charge. But there is also an element that appears to care little for the lives of others, or at least attaches a very low value to them. For years they have got away with a failure in basic protection for those who are prepared to fight and die for their country. I am shamed by this behaviour and just wanted to say how appreciative I am of the work that you and others do. The results are beginning to show and you are right to be wary, but you should also start taking some pride in, and credit for, the achievements to date.

nigegilb
25th May 2009, 12:26
Thanks Vox, you are right to say there are many hard working and honest people working up at London. One of them in particular, has restored my faith in the system since XV179 went down. I am conscious of the massive amount of work that has gone on since the crash, the safety on the Hercules Fleet has been hugely improved. The argument about fuel tank protection has been won. Ministers had no choice but sign off on multi-million pound contracts for FTP on A400M. I know I can appear strident to some, it is also difficult being in the military and hearing the constant stream of criticism from people like me. But we are in this to effect change and I actually think we have crossed the line. The capitulation in the Nimrod and Hercules cases has been striking. The acceptance of liability and negligence I find quite amazing from where we started over 3 years ago.

We are nearly there. I still want this to go to Court because I want the Government to be told in no uncertain terms that servicemen are protected by the Human Rights Act. After all, it was Labour that signed up UK to HRA. I know that many people disagree with me over this point and I know it will be expensive. But I pay taxes and I am content that my taxes will be used to pay compensation.. What is wrong is the way the MoD and this Govt have written off so many young lives.

I would like to think that the controversy and campaigning over the shooting down of XV179 has gone a very long way to correct the idea that Govt can send its servicemen to their deaths in defective aircraft, vehicles and the like.

Thank you for your support.

Edited to add, that in court documents referred to in the Indie article were over 30 failings identified by the legal team. MoD lawyers conceded ALL 30 not a single one contested.

All very different to the rubbish spouted by SofS Reid who tried to blame 47 Sqn at one stage. Thankfully the Barristers involved did an awful lot of work pro bono and there were many others helping out.

SaddamsLoveChild
25th May 2009, 13:22
Why not ask the question of MOD ' Of the recommendations of all the boards of inquiry since XX of month X of year X how many have been implemented and of those that have not, what is the reason for not doing so and who has accepted the risk. Current aircrew crash seats and harnesses spring to mind following some rotary incidents/accidents.

This is only the tip of the iceberg me thinks.

nigegilb
25th May 2009, 14:09
MoD have been trying desperately hard to treat various BoIs into fatal accidents separately and for them not to be linked in any way. Ainsworth was very quick to deny systemic failures at the conclusion of Herc Inquest.
A bit too quick. His lawyers have now accepted over 30 failings, uncontested.
Coroner Walker called for Nimrod to be grounded at conclusion of Nimrod Inquest. He was derided by Ainsworth and by many here. Nimrod is now grounded, in the unmodded state.

Sea King collision- airworthiness failure (strobes)
Puma collision-airworthiness failure (training)
Puma crash-airworthiness failure (training+no eng mod)
Tornado patriot shoot down-airworthiness failure
Lynx shootdown-airworthiness failure (classified)
Chinook Mull - airworthiness concerns ignored in rush to blame pilots
Hercules- airworthiness failure, not fit for purpose
Nimrod-gross airworthiness failure

These are just the ones that instantly come to mind. I am not aware of the issues you raise, but in many of the above cases the MoD relies on an inadequate BoI system, limited knowledge by coroners, no funding for legal representation and in many cases evidence that disappears. Nimrod and Hercules families were properly represented. The MoD is always represented. What is obvious is that since funding of implementation of airworthiness regulations was slashed in the mid 90s a whole series of fatalities have occurred which could have been avoided.

So, what next?

Watch this space for Haddon Cave. MoD will do nothing until forced to do so. Haddon Cave's report, will, in my view, be explosive.

Chugalug2
25th May 2009, 19:58
Let us be clear, Deliverance, this is about the airworthiness of aircraft rather than their "design life". The Mull Chinook had a total life of just over 50 flying hours when it crashed and was unairworthy for all of them, the Hercules in Iraq and the Nimrod in Afghanistan obviously had more hours, but all three were connected by one vital deficiency when they crashed, a lack of airworthiness. There are those who would cavil at that, saying that the Hercules lacked rather fitness for purpose. That is splitting hairs. A military tactical transport aircraft has to be able to sustain a single hit from the likes of an AK47 round into a fuel tank without being doomed. That protection I would deem to be vital to its airworthiness for its intended use. In all events the UK Military Airworthiness Authority, AKA the MOD, ignored pleas for such protection along with not complying with its own Airworthiness Regulations. You are right though to suppose that means more military fleets, whether young or old, will be similarly affected for they all share the same disadvantage, that of coming under the neglect of the same Airworthiness Authority. Until that Authority is replaced by an independent MAA the situation remains unchanged.

SirPeterHardingsLovechild
25th May 2009, 22:50
I said in a previous thread that I thought the MoD would settle out of court.

I think I may be wrong.

If, as the report states, the MoD have admitted negligence at this stage, then all that remains is a judge to decide the level of compensation after submissions from the lawyers.

Edited to add:-

In fact the 'MoD have admitted negligence' is probably (fair) journalistic licence. I expect that what they have done is stated that they are not contesting the action. Total capitulation, but a clear attempt to avoid any more court appearances. An out of court settlement offer would come before total capitulation, so like I said above, blank chequebooks are being dusted off.